Board 8 > Contest Stats and Discussion - Part 1370

(+) Yeah! (+)

Still impressive how Final Fantasy can beat Zelda in these polls even with Zelda being LFFed.

Maybe we should have a Best Series Ever 2 contest after all if there's something resembling a chance of Zelda losing to FF

OrangeCrush980 posted...

Maybe we should have a Best Series Ever 2 contest after all if there's something resembling a chance of Zelda losing to FF

If FF couldn't beat Zelda in 2006, it sure as heck ain't beating it in 2022.

The reason to do Best Series Ever 2 is because of matches involving FF, but it isn't FF/Zelda, it's FF/Mario and FF/Pokemon.

Metal Gear got snubbed, again...

Also given how stacked the poll is against Zelda, the fact that it's barely losing is more than enough to tell you it would crush Final Fantasy in a 1v1.

WarThaNemesis2 posted...

The reason to do Best Series Ever 2 is because of matches involving FF, but it isn't FF/Zelda, it's FF/Mario and FF/Pokemon.

Mario managed to get 48% in 2006. I don't think that match would be in dispute now.

I feel like the only interesting thing about another Series Contest is how powerful Pokemon would be now compared to last time, and I don't need to know that enough to have to endure another one.

Metal Gear didn't start on the NES so it shouldn't be in the poll.
I suppose you could argue that Ninja Gaiden didn't either but NES NG seems to have been developed around the same time as the arcade game and came out within a couple months of it - so while the NES game wasn't the first NG game released, it might be said to have begun development and therefore "started" on the NES/Famicom at the same time as or even before the arcade game. Also Ninja Gaiden is getting whipped so thoroughly it barely matters.

UltimaterializerX posted...

Im stunned Zelda isnt crushing this one.

LFF due to the presence of Metroid and Super Mario Bros. is the reason why Zelda lost this poll to Final Fantasy. It won the poll back in 2018, but lost in 2020 and yesterday.

Not particularly relevant to current discussion, but ages ago during the first GOTD contest I remember people acting like Psychonauts would be super bottom-of-the-barrel fodder because it sold poorly when in reality it sold better in 2005 than Chrono Trigger did in 1995. It's an apples-to-oranges comparison that disregards the site's demographics but I still felt like bringing it up.

And Psychonauts finished 110th in the X-Stats

I doubt you actually "remember" that happening though, not sure what video you watched to make you bring that up

People were thinking Arkham Asylum was going to break 80% or even 90% though. Obviously no such thing happened. Maybe that was half because Batman though.

I have actually read through that part of the Stats & Discussion topic from back then within the past year, believe it or not.

Pretty good playrate for FFX

Leonhart4 posted...

Pretty good playrate for FFX

Im surprised that more on this site havent finished it.

a lot of people just don't finish games for whatever reason, especially RPGs. FFX is one of the easiest Final Fantasy games but it's story heavy so some might just get bored halfway through.

Pretty much any game they've done a poll for has a decent percentage of people who played it but never beat it

I'd love another Series contest with a 64-entrant field. Tuck Zelda away in the Tournament of Champions along with Mario and FF. Have the winner of the main bracket face FF or Mario.

There have been so many new series introduced in the past 18 years (not to mention series whose stock has risen/fallen dramatically) that BSE2 would be unpredictable.

Pokemon and Smash Bros. would likely be the favorites, but think of matches involving Dark Souls, Metal Gear, Sonic, Mega Man/X, Metroid, Persona, Witcher, Elder Scrolls, Castlevania, Kingdom Hearts, Halo, Resident Evil, Xeno, etc. Also would like to see sleepers like Paper Mario, Chrono, Donkey Kong Country, etc.

And, of course, who doesn't want to see Fire Emblem choke against Street Fighter or God of War or something?

Or better yet, who doesn't want to see Kirby flatten CoD?

Nothing says to me how long it's been since the Series Contest quite like Star Ocean getting into the bracket while Tales of did not manage to do so.

Hell, Shadow Hearts made it in over Tales.

And Phoenix Wright only had one game in the States at the time.

And Mass Effect wasn't even a thing yet.

And Harvest Moon made it, but no Animal Crossing.

I'm okay not seeing most of that. The Series Contest was the most predictable contest ever with an absurd amount of overwhelming blowouts. I don't think expanding it to 64 will solve that.

Leonhart4 posted...

I'm okay not seeing most of that. The Series Contest was the most predictable contest ever with an absurd amount of overwhelming blowouts. I don't think expanding it to 64 will solve that.

That was the fault of the bracket rather than the idea of the Series Contest itself.

The Big 3 in the Series Contest were locks to win their divisions, and Metal Gear was given a cakewalk ride to the Final Four as well. Imagine if Metal Gear's division had been loaded with Smash, Metroid, and Sonic. Things could've been interesting.

Tuck away the Big 3, introduce 40+ new franchises that we didn't have in the 2006 contest, and arrange the bracket properly, and then you'll have a fresh contest worth getting excited about.

Well, considering Zelda, FF, and Mario would be the three biggest vote draws, that won't be happening. There's no justification for excluding the latter two other than "they're too popular," which isn't going to mean anything to Allen. I doubt he'd exclude Zelda either since the first contest was 15 years ago. This isn't like the Character Battles where we've seen enough of them to justify setting aside the most popular entrants.

Also Smash would've smashed Metroid and Metal Gear, too. No surprises there. Like, I'm sure there would be a few interesting matchups if we were to have another one, but not enough that I actually want to see it.

Here are some notable franchises that missed the Spring 2006 bracket. Obviously a number of these are fodder, but most would beat Suikoden, which was a 4-seed back in '06.

With the right bracket arrangement, you can setup a bunch of debatable matches in the early and later rounds.

• Souls
• Witcher
• Mass Effect
• Dragon Age
• Star Wars (however you want to narrow this down)
• Fallout
• Xeno/Xenoblade
• Final Fantasy Tactics
• Persona
• Shin Megami Tensei
• Chrono
• Tales
• Trails
• DOOM
• Starcraft
• Phoenix Wright
• Monster Hunter
• Mega Man Battle Network
• Mega Man Zero
• Mega Man Legends
• Animal Crossing
• Paper Mario
• Mario Party
• Mario Sports
• Donkey Kong Country
• F-Zero
• Mother
• Splatoon
• Star Fox
• Pikmin
• Golden Sun
• Tetris
• Pac-Man
• TMNT
• Bayonetta
• Ninja Gaiden
• Dead or Alive
• Mortal Kombat
• Tekken
• King of Fighters
• Yakuza
• Red Dead
• Half-Life
• Portal
• Batman Arkham
• God of War
• Uncharted
• The Last of Us
• Tomb Raider
• Bioshock
• Borderlands
• Horizon
• Gears of War
• Call of Duty
• Battlefield
• Assassin's Creed
• Tony Hawk
• Banjo
• Spyro
• Crash Bandicoot

Here's a division I'd like to see:

(1) Sonic
(16) F-Zero

(8) Tomb Raider
(9) NieR

(5) Chrono
(12) Batman Arkham

(4) Dragon Quest
(13) Star Fox

(6) Mega Man X
(11) Portal

(3) Fire Emblem
(14) Mortal Kombat

(7) Donkey Kong Country
(10) Paper Mario

(2) Kingdom Hearts
(15) Tetris

The Top 6 seeds can all make a run at the division finals.

Tomb Raider/NieR and DKC/Paper Mario are tossups. Paper Mario could have wild card upset potential in Rounds 2 and 3, or it could shit the bed against DKC.

DQ/Chrono could be the new Castlevania/Halo, or perhaps Chrono Trigger carries Chrono all the way to the division title.

Does Fire Emblem choke again MMX? Can the winner beat Kingdom Hearts?

How weak is Sonic? Or do the recent movies boost Sonic as a game franchise?

Here's another division:

(1) Metroid
(16) King of Fighters

(8) Uncharted
(9) Ace Attorney

(5) Castlevania
(12) Horizon

(4) Mega Man
(13) Bayonetta

(6) Xenoblade
(11) Warcraft

(3) Witcher
(14) Bioshock

(7) Street Fighter
(10) Final Fantasy Tactics

(2) Persona
(15) Splatoon

Uncharted/AA and SF/FFT are Round 1 toss-ups, with FFT having wild card upset potential against Persona.

Mega Man/Castlevania can go either way. If Castlevania wins, it sets up the Metroidvania Bowl, which can go either way depending on how much of a factor Netflix plays (they're making a Richter show, so Vania is still relevant in that regard). Prime-related announcements could also boost Metroid.

Xenoblade/Witcher is interesting when you factor in XC3 hype. It boils down to Nintendo/JRPG vs. GotD2 Runner-up + 2 games many Witcher 3 fans haven't played + Netflix factor.

Persona/FFT could get interesting as the Battle of JRPG Spinoffs, but Persona should win en route to its rematch against either Xenoblade or Witcher.

This site doesn't exactly worship Metroid, so the division title is no gimme.

I think there's some major JRPG overestimation and Capcom underestimation going on here (coincidentally, something that also happened in the first Series contest). I take Mega Man over Castlevania easily, same with Street Fighter over Persona, and Mega Man X over Fire Emblem.

Final Fantasy Tactics would get wrecked by SF. The original FFT isn't even that strong anymore, to say nothing of how the Advance games would be dead weight.

Metroid is not losing that after Dread.

Fire Emblem probably loses to MMX and neither of those are beating KH.

Persona/Street Fighter could go either way.

MMX should be the favourite against Kingdom Hearts,

Persona 4 and Street Fighter IV were neck-and-neck when Persona was super weak here. It would crush SF these days. P4 went from losing to GTAIV to beating GTAV.

Big_Bob posted...

Persona 4 and Street Fighter IV were neck-and-neck when Persona was super weak here. It would crush SF these days. P4 went from losing to GTAIV to beating GTAV.

Games =/= Series

The strongest Mario Kart games probably beat the strongest Mega Man games and MK still lost. Same thing with GTA and Warcraft, which was one of the few genuine upsets in the original contest.

I think Persona could beat Street Fighter. That's more because I don't think Street Fighter the series would be very strong in 2022, though.

Oh, Persona could win, but SF is more respected as a brand and its heyday was the 90s, which probably matters.

SF did pretty well in 2006 when the series felt dead (SFIV was still a couple years away). SFV was a flop but there seems to be a decent hype train developing for SF6.

Persona doubling Street Fighter would make it a top 5 series, what a bizarre take

UltimaterializerX posted...

Persona would break 65% these days. You're nuts.

Remember this match? https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/3474-division-8-round-1-gta4-persona-4-sf4-ssbb

Here's how Persona 4 did (I don't care that it was called "Golden") against a far, far, far stronger version of Grand Theft Auto a decade later: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/8017-division-4-semifinal-grand-theft-auto-v-vs-persona-4-golden

The disrespect that series gets for its strength curve around these parts, I tell ya.

Oh and I say this as someone who has SF4 in my top five games ever made and doesn't even like Persona all that much. People have been overrating that series' strength literally since the SMRPG match all the way back in 2004.

Funny, I read your write-ups for Series Contest 1, and the strength of the fourth game in the series was yoblazer's justification for why The Elder Scrolls was going to crush Street Fighter.

Here's another:

(1) Pokemon
(16) Nioh

(8) Call of Duty
(9) Ys

(5) Red Dead
(12) Shin Megami Tensei

(4) Halo
(13) DOOM

(6) Mass Effect
(11) Assassin's Creed

(3) Resident Evil
(14) Luigi's Mansion

(7) Kirby
(10) Devil May Cry

(2) Dark Souls
(15) Mario Party

Man you ran out of good series quickly

Let's stick with 32

Or better yet 0

(8) Call of Duty
(9) Ys

I laughed.

if your contest involves Ys, the contest is probably a mistake

this is not a commentary on the quality of Ys, just saying... is it even a top 10 JRPG series on this website

You can say they're too old to matter but most stuff has stayed within a relative range for just about every contest except for new stuff that's gained popularity over time. Street Fighter isn't going to be some fodder series that Persona steamrolls. I wouldn't expect hardly anything outside of the big three capable of doubling SF.

MoogleKupo141 posted...

if your contest involves Ys, the contest is probably a mistake

Counterpoint:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/7957-division-6-round-1-sonic-mania-vs-ys-viii

Good contest

A contest with an epic ton of fodder

Zylothewolf posted...

Im surprised that more on this site havent finished it.

I'm not bothering with this breakdown, but now I'm curious which games we have polls on have the highest finish-rates in comparison to their play-dates. At the moment, it feels like FFX having a 74.9% play-rate and only 10.12% from that piece not finishing is pretty solid -- especially given how long the game is. This isn't Mario 1.

I beat FFX on PS2 yet somehow voted for played but never beat it.

And here's our last division, served up to Smash Bros. on a platter:

(1) Smash Bros.
(16) Crash Bandicoot

(8) Battlefield
(9) Silent Hill

(5) Monster Hunter
(12) Starcraft

(4) Grand Theft Auto
(13) Banjo

(6) God of War
(11) Mario Kart

(3) Elder Scrolls
(14) Tales

(7) Fallout
(10) Star Wars

(2) Metal Gear
(15) Animal Crossing

how did battlefield get an 8 seed here

MoogleKupo141 posted...

if your contest involves Ys, the contest is probably a mistake

this is not a commentary on the quality of Ys, just saying... is it even a top 10 JRPG series on this website

Pokemon
Final Fantasy
Chrono
Dragon Quest
Persona
Shin Megami Tensei
Paper Mario
Star Ocean (is this in question nowadays...?)
Undertale/Deltarune?
Breath of Fire?
Mother?
Trails? I feel like Trails would beat Ys, even if Ys 8 is stronger than any single Trails game...

Not sure what else might be above it.

MacArrowny posted...

Pokemon
Final Fantasy
Chrono
Dragon Quest
Persona
Shin Megami Tensei
Paper Mario
Star Ocean (is this in question nowadays...?)
Undertale/Deltarune?
Breath of Fire?
Mother?
Trails? I feel like Trails would beat Ys, even if Ys 8 is stronger than any single Trails game...

Not sure what else might be above it.

you missed Tales of __. Mana probably beats out Ys too, right? Suikoden, Disgaea, and Golden Sun are other candidates off the top of my head.