Poll of the Day > Do you think RTS like star craft are dead?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I mean I know sc2 is still being played on esports. But I don't see them getting new blood in the causal game. I also don't see SC3 happening, or any other RTS in that style happening again.

Considering how much of a moneymaker esports are, this seems like a dumb opinion imo

No Frost Giant is full of old SC2 devs and they are just coming out with their first game.

Sounds like TC is upset he didnt get invited to play in the 2022 Fresh Step Kitty Litter Invitational.

Cacciato posted...

Sounds like TC is upset he didnt get invited to play in the 2022 Fresh Step Kitty Litter Invitational.

His clicks per minute is...subpar to say the least.

VampireCoyote posted...

Considering how much of a moneymaker esports are, this seems like a dumb opinion imo

Moneymaker for who? Last I heard every major esports event is a net loss and the whole thing is propped up by developer money and venture capital.

Cacciato posted...

Sounds like TC is upset he didnt get invited to play in the 2022 Fresh Step Kitty Litter Invitational.

I wish your life wasn't so terrible you have to resort to comments like this for the little kicks you can get.

hypnox posted...

I wish your life wasn't so terrible you have to resort to comments like this for the little kicks you can get.

you should probably chill on doing the exact same thing to Zang then

VampireCoyote posted...

you should probably chill on doing the exact same thing to Zang then

Psh that waste of employeement deserves it. Dude is nothing but drunk posts or the lost another job rants

funkyfritter posted...

Moneymaker for who? Last I heard every major esports event is a net loss and the whole thing is propped up by developer money and venture capital.

the devs make a ton off of ads and sponsors

mountain dew, monster energy, jacks links, etc

Do you think RTS like star craft are dead?

Blizzard is dead, imo. Starcraft is played out.

But speaking to the RTS genre as a whole, it's alive and well; it's just no one is daring enough to push the genre forward.

Stagnant is the word I'd choose...

hypnox posted...

Psh that waste of employeement deserves it. Dude is nothing but drunk posts or the lost another job rants

youve chosen the judgemental hypocrisy path I see

VampireCoyote posted...

the devs make a ton off of ads and sponsors

mountain dew, monster energy, jacks links, etc

Only a small number of games have events with sponsors of that scale. League of Legends is the only one I'm aware of off the top of my head, and I know as of a few years ago their esports division was still operating at a loss and writing it off as advertising for the game. SC2 events certainly don't bring in enough ad revenue to cover expenses judging by their viewer counts and the sponsors they're working with.

What is all this I hear about esports being this huge thing then?

what about fortnite, and games. . .like fortnite

hypnox posted...

I wish your life wasn't so terrible you have to resort to comments like this for the little kicks you can get.

Its literally a cat litter joke on a dying forum. I dont think its as indicative as you make it out to be.

Cacciato posted...

Its literally a cat litter joke on a dying forum. I dont think its as indicative as you make it out to be.

No, you admitting what it is and yet you still do it just highlights how sad your life is.

VampireCoyote posted...

What is all this I hear about esports being this huge thing then?

what about fortnite, and games. . .like fortnite

It's definitely been gaining momentum for the past two decades and started to reach a point of mainstream appeal, but that doesn't necessarily translate into profitability. I don't know enough about Fortnite esports to comment on how that scene is structured, but I am confident in saying that whatever revenue streams or brand deals support it aren't doing anything to help fund competition in other games. For the majority of events and games, their esports scenes are funded either by the developer's marketing budget or venture capital hoping to get established within the space before it becomes the next ESPN. Ticket sales and ad revenue don't come close to covering the cost of the running these tournaments.

To list some examples, dota 2 events outside of The International operate at a loss and the smash bros scene is effectively grassroots and heavily dependent on community funding to this day. Both are relatively prominent esports communities that have been established and grown for over a decade, but they're still struggling with financial security.

ex-blizzard employees are making a new RTS named Stormgate, so that's happening

hypnox posted...

No, you admitting what it is and yet you still do it just highlights how sad your life is.

Cheer up, buttercup.

Stormgate. Being made by Ex-Blizzard devs.

We need Warcraft 4

JOExHIGASHI posted...

We need Warcraft 4

In the extremely unlikely event that there is a WC4 (a major reason Reforged was such a disaster is because ABK was largely unwilling to allocate resources to it because they don't see Warcraft as a worthwhile investment outside of WoW/Hearthstone), it almost certainly won't be the game you're hoping for. The Blizzard that made WC3 doesn't exist anymore; whatever they do churn out will likely be heavily monetized and deliberately designed to be less than enjoyable for free players.

Broodwar is actually getting bigger and bigger in South Korea after being killed off in 2012. The thing is, Broodwar would most likely not have died off in 2012 if it wasn't for the match fixing scandal and MBC doing a stupidass move and rebranding their MBC Game channel into MBC Music.

lihlih posted...

Broodwar is actually getting bigger and bigger in South Korea after being killed off in 2012. The thing is, Broodwar would most likely not have died off in 2012 if it wasn't for the match fixing scandal and MBC doing a stupidass move and rebranding their MBC Game channel into MBC Music.

@Far-Queue look at this stolen valor

Pretty sure there are still competitions for Starcraft II and AoE II?

Play Offworld Trading Company... it's a non-combat RTS, but it's one of the best RTS I played

DirtBasedSoap posted...

@Far-Queue look at this stolen valor

Are you going to summon Far just so he can come and bitch about how he makes less money than me? Lmao

RTS no, Warcraft/Starcraft clones maybe

It may not be in the main spotlight anymore but SCII and BW still do have active scenes thanks to Afreeca. OGN still hosts some action when sponsors are willing to throw money (SBENU being the last one I could follow)

Even if everything went right in regards to Blizzard, litigation, match-fixing, etc back in 2010-2012, I don't think anything would've stopped League taking over the main spotlight in Korea.

lihlih posted...

Broodwar is actually getting bigger and bigger in South Korea after being killed off in 2012. The thing is, Broodwar would most likely not have died off in 2012 if it wasn't for the match fixing scandal and MBC doing a stupidass move and rebranding their MBC Game channel into MBC Music.

Then why the fuck did they cut the english cast of ASL?

Life Sympathy posted...

It may not be in the main spotlight anymore but SCII and BW still do have active scenes thanks to Afreeca. OGN still hosts some action when sponsors are willing to throw money (SBENU being the last one I could follow)

Even if everything went right in regards to Blizzard, litigation, match-fixing, etc back in 2010-2012, I don't think anything would've stopped League taking over the main spotlight in Korea.

Lolno, Broodwar was still drawing crazy numbers until match fixing scandal and MBC doing that dumbass move.

shadowsword87 posted...

Then why the fuck did they cut the english cast of ASL?

Who cares about the English cast?

lihlih posted...

Who cares about the English cast?

People who speak english.

Traditional RTS are dead, it's all about the MOBAs now

Zareth posted...

Traditional RTS are dead, it's all about the MOBAs now

Honestly I think the only reason MOBAs are so big is due to them being FTP in most cases.

Fuck the MOBAs, it's all about Transport sims. OpenTTD my mans.

lihlih posted...

Lolno, Broodwar was still drawing crazy numbers until match fixing scandal and MBC doing that dumbass move.

The match fixing scandal by Savior and others mostly drove away sponsorships but those were gone by the time, not viewers. Savior was well past his prime and most people were following the TaekBangLeesSang fandom by that point. Savior was playing so few games at that point that he destroyed his legacy more than anything.

As for the sponsorship, we went from the early 2000s with big hitters such as Coca-Cola, SKY, Panasonic, Gillette. By the time we were at 2007 and onward, sponsorships were looking more like begging EVER and Incruit for more seasons. OGN still managed to find big hitters like Korean Air which would give rise to the JinAir (low cost subsidiary airline to Korean Air) Greenwings team.

MBCGame was getting royally shafted on the other hand. They were begging for sponsors from the likes of ClubDay Online, Lost Saga, Hana Daetoo Securities, BigFile, etc etc. MBCGame was hemoraging money long before the decision to axe it came through. Remember that mini series Hyungjoon (K-Pop Star) Becomes a Progamer? That was before the match fixing scandal came to light and that was writing on the wall that MBCGame was extremely desperate to keep their channel alive. Hyungjoon didn't even take it seriously and goofed off for the entire series.

Let's also not forget KeSPA extremely arrogant attitude around then too. Remember when GOMTV tried to bring official content to the global audience with the Star Invitational Tournament? KeSPA said no and refused to count any matches as official KeSPA matches and forbidding any of their referee services from participating. That chased off teams and killed that initiative real fast.

There were deep rooted issues far beyond that those two events within the scene that were easy to keep hidden from the global audience due to us only having second hand stuff presented by TeamLiquid. Most people will point to around 2007 being the golden age of the scene.

papercup posted...

Fuck the MOBAs, it's all about Transport sims. OpenTTD my mans.

Plugging Offworld Trading Company a second time.. since it is ALSO a transport sim

Warcraft 3 Reforged is still being fixed, so WC4 won't be for a long time, if ever

shadowsword87 posted...

People who speak english.

Except the English speaking casters are boring as fuck and often not correct with their commentary. Even if I didn't know any Korean, I'd rather watch it in Korean.

Life Sympathy posted...

The match fixing scandal by Savior and others mostly drove away sponsorships but those were gone by the time, not viewers. Savior was well past his prime and most people were following the TaekBangLeesSang fandom by that point. Savior was playing so few games at that point that he destroyed his legacy more than anything.

As for the sponsorship, we went from the early 2000s with big hitters such as Coca-Cola, SKY, Panasonic, Gillette. By the time we were at 2007 and onward, sponsorships were looking more like begging EVER and Incruit for more seasons. OGN still managed to find big hitters like Korean Air which would give rise to the JinAir (low cost subsidiary airline to Korean Air) Greenwings team.

MBCGame was getting royally shafted on the other hand. They were begging for sponsors from the likes of ClubDay Online, Lost Saga, Hana Daetoo Securities, BigFile, etc etc. MBCGame was hemoraging money long before the decision to axe it came through. Remember that mini series Hyungjoon (K-Pop Star) Becomes a Progamer? That was before the match fixing scandal came to light and that was writing on the wall that MBCGame was extremely desperate to keep their channel alive. Hyungjoon didn't even take it seriously and goofed off for the entire series.

Let's also not forget KeSPA's extremely arrogant attitude around then too. Remember when GOMTV tried to bring official content to the global audience with the Star Invitational Tournament? KeSPA said no and refused to count any matches as official KeSPA matches and forbidding any of their referee services from participating. That chased off teams and killed that initiative real fast.

There were deep rooted issues far beyond that those two events within the scene that were easy to keep hidden from the global audience due to us only having second hand stuff presented by TeamLiquid. Most people will point to around 2007 being the golden age of the scene.

Bruh, Savior still had one of the biggest fanbases just because he was good looking(automatic female fanbase), and the fact that he was a bonjaw and still showing signs of brilliance here and there. Yeah, I forgot to mention kespa's dumbass bullshit that was driving fans away too(far more than what you mentioned, like disqualifying players for mistyping gg, disqualifying players for accidentally typing ppp instead of pp for pause request, and many many more bullshit events). MSL always had trouble finding sponsors because they had the 2nd place image to OSL, but they still managed to get Pringles twice, ABC-Mart, etc... They still had good ratings that made them good money.

They certainly aren't at their peek popularity like they were in the late 90's - early 00's. But I don't think any video game genre truly dies.

Dikitain posted...

They certainly aren't at their peek popularity like they were in the late 90's - early 00's. But I don't think any video game genre truly dies.

I just got addicted to those old games and it's not fair, there's nothing like them anymore... Maybe they should go back to cheesy prerendered animation if that's what sells

lihlih posted...

Except the English speaking casters are boring as f*** and often not correct with their commentary. Even if I didn't know any Korean, I'd rather watch it in Korean.

I'd rather listen to tastetosis than what I hear as gibberish.
I really like their commentary thank you.

Ferarri619 posted...

Warcraft 3 Reforged is still being fixed, so WC4 won't be for a long time, if ever

If by fixed you mean being put six foot under

Age of Empires 4 was released last year, yanno? And Age of Empires 2 got a few remasters and stuff recently, as well as balance patches and stuff like that.

As for Starcraft 3/Warcraft 4? Maybe after Microsoft finishes buying Blizzard off? They clearly seem interested in RTS again with Age of Empires 2 and 4 becoming a thing again, so maybe they will try pushing the Blizzard division into making RTS again too. We gotta wait and see.

At the very least, the genre isn't dead. There are people that want to make it a thing.

AliceShiki posted...

Age of Empires 4 was released last year, yanno? And Age of Empires 2 got a few remasters and stuff recently, as well as balance patches and stuff like that.

As for Starcraft 3/Warcraft 4? Maybe after Microsoft finishes buying Blizzard off? They clearly seem interested in RTS again with Age of Empires 2 and 4 becoming a thing again, so maybe they will try pushing the Blizzard division into making RTS again too. We gotta wait and see.

At the very least, the genre isn't dead. There are people that want to make it a thing.

I don't know. Most of them probably work on WoW for that.

Revelation34 posted...

I don't know. Most of them probably work on WoW for that.

Well, they'll definitely try salvaging WoW because its moneymaking potential is huge, but I don't think it's impossible for a Warcraft 4 and WoW to coexist.

Dunno if Microsoft's executives will want to invest on reviving Blizzard's dead RTS franchises, but I think they will see the potential in it after the success of reviving Age of Empires, so... Why not?

Warcraft 4 would require a completely different set of skills to create than WoW, so there's no way they conflict except maybe at the tip top management side.

Blizzard hasn't been a good company since the very early 2000's I don't think anyone else can make a great RTS.

AliceShiki posted...

Well, they'll definitely try salvaging WoW because its moneymaking potential is huge, but I don't think it's impossible for a Warcraft 4 and WoW to coexist.

Dunno if Microsoft's executives will want to invest on reviving Blizzard's dead RTS franchises, but I think they will see the potential in it after the success of reviving Age of Empires, so... Why not?

To put it into perspective: It was 10 years between when Blizzard released the first Warcraft and when they released WoW. When the 10th WoW expansion comes out, WoW will be about 20 years old. In that time, Blizzard only released Starcraft II + expansions and a few "remasters" as far as RTS games.

It is safe to say if they do revive those dead RTS franchises, it probably won't be the same people making them. Not necessarily a bad thing, Doom (2016) was a completely new team and that game ruled. But it is still worth being skeptical about.

Dikitain posted...

To put it into perspective: It was 10 years between when Blizzard released the first Warcraft and when they released WoW. When the 10th WoW expansion comes out, WoW will be about 20 years old. In that time, Blizzard only released Starcraft II + expansions and a few "remasters" as far as RTS games.

It is safe to say if they do revive those dead RTS franchises, it probably won't be the same people making them. Not necessarily a bad thing, Doom (2016) was a completely new team and that game ruled. But it is still worth being skeptical about.

Oh yeah, it most likely will be done by a different team... And well, that's fine IMO.

The team that worked on the recent updates for Age of Empires II was not the same team that made the game. And the team that made Age of Empires IV was also not the team that made the first 3 games, so like... Well, a team change can totally work out for those things.

But yeah, Blizzard hasn't done much in the RTS market in recent years, but... Well, they're being bought, so new teams can always be made and new people can be hired and the like~