Current Events > Skateboarder Taylor Silverman speaks out after placing 2nd to trans competitor

(+) Yeah! (+)

gunplagirl posted...

Yes, I'm the one who hurts the cause of trans liberation, definitely not the people actively hurting us, or the people who are okay with them hurting us, or the ones who support those people hurting us because "we gotta protect the women and kids" or whatever.

And when the only thing you do to help is... not actuslly helping? Nah, you're not an ally. If you have a problem, then go donate to any of the gofundme posts on Facebook or Twitter made by trans women who need help paying for rent or food or medication. Or I dunno, volunteer at a homeless shelter or food pantry? Something that's actually directly helping others, not just voting for some corporate shill who is the same as the one in red, but this one's in BLUE and says they don't hate us, but still won't vote to pass any laws ensuring our rights are protected.

So unless I give money to trans people and volunteer to the homeless I am a transphobe?

Brianfellow posted...

So unless I give money to trans people and volunteer to the homeless I am a transphobe?

The only thing you can do to not be a transphobe in Gunplas eyes is agree with her on literally everything at all times without question, even on matters that have nothing to do with trans people.

cuttin_in_farm posted...

I dont care about you trying to emotionally manipulate the conversation. Also, people hurting the cause more than you doesnt mean you by default arent hurting the cause.

This is a very naive and short sighted way of viewing things. The average American votes once every four years based off highlight reels and what their political buddy at work says. Having someone that even votes on non-presidential voting is huge when you take into account the general population.

People who dont understand trans people or dont know (I bring this up everytime. A lot of folks in my family still conflate being trans with sexual orientation), will not understand your radical and extreme approach.

You will turn them away from even trusting you. Then everything beneficial you could say will be undermined.

You cant not care about public opinion in a social movement. Thats stupid.

I hope that makes sense.

Your argument is we should ban trans women to protect cis women. If that's not an appeal to emotion I don't even

Brianfellow posted...

So unless I give money to trans people and volunteer to the homeless I am a transphobe?

I said that people need to do more than vote to actually be an ally.

Oubliettes posted...

I asked my wife, who used to skateboard, what her opinion on the subject was, and she said she could never keep up with the dudes as far as tricks and shit went because the leg strength required to get not only yourself, but the board in the air was pretty intense. I didn't know her when she seriously boarded but she could kickflip and grind and shit at least. That's all anecdotal, but a brief Google search about jumping seems to back that up, with men having greater muscle mass in their legs and the capability to produce more force.

yeah, I mean all you need to do is watch male and female street skating and you can see the difference.

gunplagirl posted...

Your argument is we should ban trans women to protect cis women. If that's not an appeal to emotion I don't even

I said that people need to do more than vote to actually be an ally.

But if I don't vote for trans rights and give money to trans people then I am a transphobe right?

Brianfellow posted...

But if I don't vote for trans rights and give money to trans people then I am a transphobe right?

This statement literally means the answer is yes--it's equal to saying "I don't vote for civil rights then I am a racist right?" Yes, yes you are...

cuttin_in_farm posted...

Lets just take the time to note that people being outrageously ridiculous like Gunplagirl are never accused of trolling or arguing in bad faith.

Nobody accused her of that once this entire topic. In fact, several posters are seriously engaging her radical thought process.

But if someone is even slightly asking a question of theorizing something that could just be interpreted as not pro-trans, everyone and their grandma will accuse you of trolling or arguing in poor faith.

The irony is crazy. Especially since Gunplagirl doesnt realize how much she hurts the cause by being insanely critical. Like a hardcore vegan that demands you follow every little rule or youre a fraud.

Just have a discussion. Not everything is a veiled attempt to attack trans people.

Gunplagirl is by far one of the most toxic posters on this entire board. She basically comes in to ruin any discussion on trans issues and just shouts at people.

indica posted...

Right? Literally any level of critical thinking would have made it obvious. :l But nah, he had to go for the "gotcha" moment and revealed his hand.

TommyG663513 posted...

Gunplagirl is by far one of the most toxic posters on this entire board. She basically comes in to ruin any discussion on trans issues and just shouts at people.

I've noticed the usual pro trans people aren't in here defending her. I cannot figure out why. They probably know how disingenuous she is to the cause.

If tails was pro trans he would be gunpla

Brianfellow posted...

I've noticed the usual pro trans people aren't in here defending her. I cannot figure out why. They probably know how disingenuous she is to the cause.

Nah, it'd be because I was posting during late Friiday/ very early Saturday so they'd have been busy or sleeping during the topic.

@CyricZ@greyfox747

Also lmao at calling it disingenuous to say that trans people don't have good allies when we're actively losing rights in many states and that we don't get material or direct help from most so called allies. Oh wait, that's right. Just accuse any woman of being emotional to win an argument 100% of the time.

Brianfellow posted...

I've noticed the usual pro trans people aren't in here defending her. I cannot figure out why. They probably know how disingenuous she is to the cause.

I don't know why anyone has ever defended her. She has always come off incredibly aggressive and unlikable.

I think a lot of very far left people just see someone who is Trans and will "listen to their experiences" but not realize that if you have a dozen trans people in a room then you may hear a variety of responses. Part of the problem here is that trans people are just fairly rare so anyone's experience interacting with them so be naturally limited.

Like it's ok to want to hear someone out, but don't grant them the entire stage and refuse to let anyone else approach the stage.

This place can be absolute garbage sometimes. I get called alt right and other garbage for pointing out how toxic this place can be. I'm nowhere near right wing and I'm bisexual which also gets me scorn from others in the LGBT circle.

indica posted...

This statement literally means the answer is yes--it's equal to saying "I don't vote for civil rights then I am a racist right?" Yes, yes you are...

Oh my God, now voting against trans rights makes you a transphobe?

whats next??? Where does this end?? Omg the left is so unreasonable

greyfox747 posted...

Oh my God, now voting against trans rights makes you a transphobe?

whats next??? Where does this end?? Omg the left is so unreasonable

Next you'll tell me that actively pushing for restricting trans people from things all cis people have access to is also transphobic! Like, I dunno, saying we need to ban trans people from the military or restrict access to medical care for them or saying we should ban them from sports. You're gonna tell me that banning them from stuff is transphobic? The left has gone too far!

TommyG663513 posted...

I don't know why anyone has ever defended her. She has always come off incredibly aggressive and unlikable.

I think a lot of very far left people just see someone who is Trans and will "listen to their experiences" but not realize that if you have a dozen trans people in a room then you may hear a variety of responses. Part of the problem here is that trans people are just fairly rare so anyone's experience interacting with them so be naturally limited.

Like it's ok to want to hear someone out, but don't grant them the entire stage and refuse to let anyone else approach the stage.

This place can be absolute garbage sometimes. I get called alt right and other garbage for pointing out how toxic this place can be. I'm nowhere near right wing and I'm bisexual which also gets me scorn from others in the LGBT circle.

I dont remember who you are but I have you tagged as racist tool so if people are calling you alt right, the label is probably earned

Wildspark posted...

(Redacted) the label is probably earned

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Ah, Tommy numbers? Yeah. He's regularly in and out of time out for that stuff.

Wildspark posted...

I dont remember who you are but I have you tagged as racist tool so if people are calling you alt right, the label is probably earned

Yeah maybe you should question why you tagged me as that.

Did you find anything in my post objectionable and do you have a reasonable argument to make in response?

If not, then you just engaged in an ad hominem by tagging me and not actually engaging in a discussion.

Again, not one single political position Ive ever espoused as been right wing.

I've been told that I'm anti trans for saying that trans women likely retain some physical advantages over cis women, but I'm not against letting them compete with cis women.

This board is insane and if you have me tagged as "racist tool" and can't remember anything else about me then you can take responsibility for that.

Its never, ever your fault, tommy. Always remember that.

Brianfellow posted...

I've noticed the usual pro trans people aren't in here

Oh sorry. I thought this one was easy.

I thought this one wouldn't be such an obtuse hill to die on for "fairness in sports" advocates.

I thought my stance on these issues was well-documented.

And most of all, I have no idea who the heck you are and cannot remember seeing you in these topics in the past.

But hey, looks like we've got the classic situation where people find themselves in comfort bullying one of our most vocal trans women because I guess she's gotta know how shrill she's being.

Another lovely Saturday on CE.

EDIT: Also lol at Tommy calling other people toxic.

Oh... when I said the other pro trans people I meant people whose opinions mattered to others. You 3 have the worst opinions on this site and that includes tails and xsquader

Brianfellow posted...

the other pro trans people I meant people whose opinions mattered to others

Like who?

Do these people exist for you? These "pro trans people I would listen to"?

Because I've got a funny feeling that's an empty set and you're just trying to be abusive.

Just a funny feeling.

CyricZ posted...

Like who?

Do these people exist for you? These "pro trans people I would listen to"?

Because I've got a funny feeling that's an empty set and you're just trying to be abusive.

Just a funny feeling.

I don't pay that much attention to other users here. You 3 just stick out due to your toxicity. To assume you are the only 3 people on here whose opinions matter shows why everyone dislikes you and does not take you seriously.

Yeah see this isn't arguing your points. This is just being abusive.

And I guess that means there aren't any pro trans people you would listen to.

Color me surprised.

CyricZ posted...

Yeah see this isn't arguing your points. This is just being abusive.

And I guess that means there aren't any pro trans people you would listen to.

Color me surprised.

I've stated my points if you read back. You just choose to ignore it and add nothing and attack me. You say everyone knows my stance blah blah blah, but like most users that see your posts we can't read it because it is filled with awful opinions that hurt causes more than help them

cyric stop arguing with the alts brutha

Take out age and weight class too. Fuck it let everyone compete and be mad

https://www.aclu.org/news/lgbtq-rights/four-myths-about-trans-athletes-debunked

CommonStar posted...

https://www.aclu.org/news/lgbtq-rights/four-myths-about-trans-athletes-debunked

If CE (and people in general) cared about facts here, this thread wouldn't be at 230 posts. People love a good punching bag, especially when they get to consider themselves allies despite still punching

CommonStar posted...

https://www.aclu.org/news/lgbtq-rights/four-myths-about-trans-athletes-debunked

Is this article for real?

Fact: My opinion
Myth: Your opinion

It's written like a fucking joke. If you are going to say that, list some evidence below after the claim. It literally supported the opinion with more opinions, and have the audacity to label stuff as fact and myth.

Mikea posted...

If CE (and people in general) cared about facts here, this thread wouldn't be at 230 posts. People love a good punching bag, especially when they get to consider themselves allies despite still punching

To be fair, most of the arguments in that article arent based on facts and dont discuss the point that others here are making, that biological differences can create unfair competitions at the highest levels if you allow trans people to compete with biological women.

The article addresses it by just saying some women and trans people are not that good at sports. That missed the point.

Like others have said, if you want womens competition at the highest levels to be legitimate you have to define what a women is for that sport. The idea of separating participants based on biological differences isnt new and serves a purpose. If you dont do a good job of defining the separate classes the purpose gets lost.

Pointing that out doesnt make someone a tansphobe.

@RustyReborn posted...

@gunplagirl

Do you even watch sports?
Like have a team?
Gamble ect?

Lol wtf are you doing in here? Also...gunpla is unknowingly part of the problem. Heart in the right place, but-

whitelytning posted...

To be fair, most of the arguments in that article arent based on facts and dont discuss the point that others here are making, that biological differences can create unfair competitions at the highest levels if you allow trans people to compete with biological women.

The article addresses it by just saying some women and trans people are not that good at sports. That missed the point.

Like others have said, if you want womens competition at the highest levels to be legitimate you have to define what a women is for that sport. The idea of separating participants based on biological differences isnt new and serves a purpose. If you dont do a good job of defining the separate classes the purpose gets lost.

Pointing that out doesnt make someone a tansphobe.

To the internet activists it does.

But thats because they largely arent trying to have an actual discussion rather them saying you have to agree with them on every front or you hate trans people

Ironically its the same tactic the right uses often. They will often resort to If you dont agree with me 100% you hate America and support terrorists

I support the lgbtq+ community however I do think this issue isnt as black and white as some people like to think it is.

Random question: Are there any reported cases of the inverse happening? As in a FtM Trans individual placing high or winning in a male division competition?

SSJPurple posted...

But thats because they largely arent trying to have an actual discussion rather them saying you have to agree with them on every front or you hate trans people

I think it's a little disingenuous to pretend that actual discussions on this topic haven't been had on this board.

I think it's a little disingenuous to pretend that those discussions weren't hijacked by right-wingers looking to find ways to insult and belittle and diminish trans people.

I think if you're going to call the discussion poisoned, you should at least be aware of who brought the poison in the first place.

Some of us are tired of arguing the same points to the same brick walls, as we've been doing for years.

If you want to ban trans women from women's sports, just say it out loud and be heard and understood.

If you want "an answer that satisfies as many people as possible", that's what we have now. We have a system that tries to make it as fair as possible while still being inclusive of trans people.

And yet, every time a trans woman wins, these topics are made yet again, made by the same shit-stirrers who drop their link and leave the topic never to look back, and populated by the same people, year in, year out.

It's tiring.

"This issue isn't black and white"

LOL yes it is.

Right now with the science we have there is only 2 choices.

Either we deal with the system we have now, which isn't perfect, but is the only system we have to include MtF trans.

Or we ban them from competing period or both MtF and FtM can only play on male sports in which they will be beaten by the majority of male athletes.

The fact that no one comes up with anything else proves it's a black and white issue at this point in time.

We also can't have a all trans league because there isn't enough per high school, college and pros to do that.

So pick.

Lebronwon posted...

I deserved to place first, be acknowledged for my win, and get paid,

Should have been better than the one who placed first then

Might be best to spend more time practicing and less time being a whiny sore loser

WhitGameR44 posted...

"This issue isn't black and white"

LOL yes it is.

Right now with the science we have there is only 2 choices.

Either we deal with the system we have now, which isn't perfect, but is the only system we have to include MtF trans.

Or we ban them from competing period or both MtF and FtM can only play on male sports in which they will be beaten by the majority of male athletes.

The fact that no one comes up with anything else proves it's a black and white issue at this point in time.

We also can't have a all trans league because there isn't enough per high school, college and pros to do that.

So pick.

This post simply isn't accurate at all. We can create a trans division.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/0/9/AAP2ssAADQTZ.jpg

Taylor on the left, Lilian in the center

TommyG663513 posted...

This post simply isn't accurate at all. We can create a trans division.

Oh really? At what level? I remember there being a article that the Idaho governor didn't wanna ban trans kids because only 2-3 were competing in the whole state.

So how are we supposed to have high school or college teams? It depends on the sport, so unless it's a individual sport, your out of luck.

Is it just meor would skateboarding overall favor a female athlete anyway? The tricks, jumps, flips, agility. If anything its one of the most gender neutral sports when it comes to competition. There are routinely female and male competitions. They skate together, compete together. From its inception its been pretty even.

VipaGTS posted...

Is it just meor would skateboarding overall favor a female athlete anyway? The tricks, jumps, flips, agility. If anything its one of the most gender neutral sports when it comes to competition. There are routinely female and male competitions. They skate together, compete together. From its inception its been pretty even.

As a former (sponsored) skater myself you would think so however there simply are much less females than males for whatever reasons.

There are professional women who absolutely shred but contrary to popular belief its still a very physically demanding activity.

For example a tall handrail is going to be easier to skate for somebody with longer/stronger legs than a shorter person who would have exert much more effort to Ollie that height to even reach the rail

However in a competitive setting I do think skating is more even between men vs women than say something like football.

WhitGameR44 posted...

Oh really? At what level? I remember there being a article that the Idaho governor didn't wanna ban trans kids because only 2-3 were competing in the whole state.

So how are we supposed to have high school or college teams? It depends on the sport, so unless it's a individual sport, your out of luck.

That's the thing. Even if it is an individual sport? No competitions or anything. Who will you practice with? Do any of the other 1-2 trans kids in sports both have the same gender as you, happen to be in the same age range, AND compete in that sport? You'd not get to play sports at all.

WhitGameR44 posted...

Oh really? At what level? I remember there being a article that the Idaho governor didn't wanna ban trans kids because only 2-3 were competing in the whole state.

So how are we supposed to have high school or college teams? It depends on the sport, so unless it's a individual sport, your out of luck.

Weight lifting is the first perfect example. Weight lifting has TONS of different divisions to compete under so it absolutely should have a trans division.

Basically, have trans divisions whee you can otherwise integrate them with m or f divisions. Girls play on boys teams all the time. When in doubt, put them in men's/boys division.

TommyG663513 posted...

Weight lifting is the first perfect example. Weight lifting has TONS of different divisions to compete under so it absolutely should have a trans division.

Basically, have trans divisions whee you can otherwise integrate them with m or f divisions. Girls play on boys teams all the time. When in doubt, put them in men's/boys division.

So when in doubt put them in the group they are going to get dominated in.

SSJPurple posted...

Random question: Are there any reported cases of the inverse happening? As in a FtM Trans individual placing high or winning in a male division competition?

No.

This whole trans leagues idea is stupid as hell.

https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/trans-adults-united-states/

1.4 million ADULTS identify as transgender. How many of those are post op? Dunno.

Then according to a ESPN article, a report showed that only 14% of boys and 12% of girls played sports.

So even if you took 1.4 million adults number, only 364,000 play sports. But that number would go down significantly because there is no way 1.4 million kids are trans, they would then be significantly reduced by ones that transitioned, and then by age groups, and then by the sport(s) they play.

So unless you want parents of trans kids to fly or drive all over the country to compete in some trans league, my assessment in my original post was correct.

Either have the system we have now or ban MtF from any competitiv competition.

WhitGameR44 posted...

This whole trans leagues idea is stupid as hell.

https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/trans-adults-united-states/

1.4 million ADULTS identify as transgender. How many of those are post op? Dunno.

Then according to a ESPN article, a report showed that only 14% of boys and 12% of girls played sports.

So even if you took 1.4 million adults number, only 364,000 play sports. But that number would go down significantly because there is no way 1.4 million kids are trans, they would then be significantly reduced by ones that transitioned, and then by age groups, and then by the sport(s) they play.

So unless you want parents of trans kids to fly or drive all over the country to compete in some trans league, my assessment in my original post was correct.

Either have the system we have now or ban MtF from any competitiv competition.

Oh, and the rules banning them don't just ban them from competition. They can't be on a team, period. So no playing a sport at all, no matter how much they may like it or if they make friends via sports.

cuttin_in_farm posted...

Lets just take the time to note that people being outrageously ridiculous like Gunplagirl are never accused of trolling or arguing in bad faith.

Nobody accused her of that once this entire topic. In fact, several posters are seriously engaging her radical thought process.

But if someone is even slightly asking a question of theorizing something that could just be interpreted as not pro-trans, everyone and their grandma will accuse you of trolling or arguing in poor faith.

The irony is crazy. Especially since Gunplagirl doesnt realize how much she hurts the cause by being insanely critical. Like a hardcore vegan that demands you follow every little rule or youre a fraud.

Just have a discussion. Not everything is a veiled attempt to attack trans people.

There is no veil at all. Sports is straight up a battlefield where anti-trans people fight their cultural war because they see it as their best opportunity to win. And if they do, it's only the beginning. You don't see a lot of positive things said about trans women (which are the only trans people certain people see because shitty reasons) in the supposed arguments about fairness and respecting everyone.