Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 386: Tranche Warfare

(+) Yeah! (+)

The first tranche of sanctions are hitting Russia hard according to Biden

Not hard enough apparently

Kyiv airport is under missile attack.

https://twitter.com/TulsiGabbard/status/1496695830715142148?s=20&t=vrVC_VISj-jkXBppT-29Lg

"Why did we not try appeasing the genocidal dictator?"

Anybody who honestly believes that Putin is not the one to blame for this war is a complete fucking moron

(Not that Tulsi likely truly believes what shes saying there)

TheRock1525 posted...

https://twitter.com/TulsiGabbard/status/1496695830715142148?s=20&t=vrVC_VISj-jkXBppT-29Lg

"Why did we not try appeasing the genocidal dictator?"

Somebody should have tried that

As if taking Ukraine would reduce the amount of NATO countries on Russia's border

TheRock1525 posted...

https://twitter.com/TulsiGabbard/status/1496695830715142148?s=20&t=vrVC_VISj-jkXBppT-29Lg

"Why did we not try appeasing the genocidal dictator?"

I used to have fun getting to "Told you so" about her.

Now it's not fun anymore. Now it's just disgusting.

Its actually insane how ignorant people are to history, especially history as recent and as "pop culture" as WW2. The only way to stop Putin is to take away his support base, and in this case it is through the sancations and things like Germany cancelling Nord Stream 2, which will cause Putin's oligarch supporters to lose their shirts.

https://twitter.com/marwilliamson/status/1496879448607580168

There is someone I did not need to remember existed.

Ukraine gave up nukes and is being punished for it atm.

If Ukraine falls to Russia this is going to be horrific for human history.

TheRock1525 posted...

https://twitter.com/TulsiGabbard/status/1496695830715142148?s=20&t=vrVC_VISj-jkXBppT-29Lg

"Why did we not try appeasing the genocidal dictator?"

jfc

Just when I thought I couldnt be more embarrassed of my past support for her.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Ukraine gave up nukes and is being punished for it atm.

If Ukraine falls to Russia this is going to be horrific for human history.

Gaddafi made the same mistake. The lesson to places like NK and Iran is essentially dont give up nuclear weapons if you want to stay in power (or even sovereign in Ukraines scenario). Terrible precedent.

TheRock1525 posted...

https://twitter.com/TulsiGabbard/status/1496695830715142148?s=20&t=vrVC_VISj-jkXBppT-29Lg

"Why did we not try appeasing the genocidal dictator?"

Thats a wild tweet

Sadly Bernie came out with a similar statement.

To clear up this is a previous statement of his, I believe.

M. President, Vladimir Putin may be a liar and a demagogue, but it is hypocritical for the United States to insist that we do not accept the principle of spheres of influence. For the last 200 years our country has operated under the Monroe Doctrine, embracing the premise that as the dominant power in the Western Hemisphere, the United States has the right to intervene against any country that might threaten our alleged interests. Under this doctrine we have undermined and overthrown at least a dozen governments. In 1962 we came to the brink of nuclear war with the Soviet Union in response to the placement of Soviet missiles in Cuba, 90 miles from our shore, which the Kennedy Administration saw as an unacceptable threat to our national security.

And the Monroe Doctrine is not ancient history. As recently as 2018 Donald Trumps Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, called the Monroe Doctrine as relevant today as it was the day it was written. In 2019, former Trump National Security Advisor John Bolton declared the Monroe Doctrine is alive and well.

To put it simply, even if Russia was not ruled by a corrupt authoritarian leader like Vladimir Putin, Russia, like the United States, would still have an interest in the security policies of its neighbors. Does anyone really believe that the United States would not have something to say if, for example, Mexico was to form a military alliance with a U.S. adversary?

Bernie is fine because he is a student of history and is correct. He also murdered with words putin in a different statement.

Aside from the part where Bernie's mostly talking about the Roosevelt Corollary and not the Monroe Doctrone

Aside from the part where that Corollary draws from the Monroe Doctrine and trying to unlink the two is an odd reason to make a post.

Yeah, Bernie's statement is true. Obviously Russia is responsible for escalating to open warfare but we don't get to ignore that NATO and the US promoting influence in Ukraine has been increasing tensions for years.

Tulsi's take is still braindead because this shit goes back like a decade and can't be pinned only on Biden. Ball's been rolling too long.

It's true that the US should not be trying to do everything for every country. This is particularly true when it seems like we are most likely to intervene when there is a clear power imbalance between the US and the country we are "helping" allowing us to reap specific benefits while that country is getting back on it's feet.

But there are some situations involving more clear wrongdoing where the US (and the civilized world as a whole) should be getting involved simply for the sake of preventing wrongdoing without as clear a benefit.

Don't use examples of wrongdoing from the past.as justification for not doing the correct thing in the present.

With all that said I'm not sure what the correct thing to do is in this specific situation. I would like to believe that countries all over the world will be willing to sever economic ties with Russia in a truly punitive way. And I would like to believe that this would be sufficient to cause a change in course. It seems more likely that half measures will be taken, and these half measures will be used as justification by Russia to play the victim and increase their show of strength.

Bernie tldr fuck putin but also this isn't a blank check you imperialist fucks

There. I helped.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Don't use examples of wrongdoing from the past.as justification for not doing the correct thing in the present.

No one is doing this, we are trying to paint a full context of the events so we can avoid mistakes in the future and above all else not get involved in a shitshow of a military conflict.

Yeah, Russia should be sanctioned economically but I'm already getting pretty sick of all this handwringing about it and demands for extreme punishment that only serves to develop an appetite for starting another war. Can we at LEAST wait until the dust settles and the US and NATO organize an economic response, for fuck's sake?

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

No one is doing this, we are trying to paint a full context of the events so we can avoid mistakes in the future and above all else not get involved in a shitshow of a military conflict.

Yeah, Russia should be sanctioned economically but I'm already getting pretty sick of all this handwringing about it and demands for extreme punishment that only serves to develop an appetite for starting another war. Can we at LEAST wait until the dust settles and the US and NATO organize an economic response, for fuck's sake?

And if you read the rest of my post you'd know I wasn't advocating for military intervention and was upfront about not knowing what the correct response even is.

I'm more talking to the Tulsi-esque take of "wellllll Russia had a point...." that seems to imply wrongdoing hasn't even occurred on Russia's part because they were "provoked" by the "threat" of a defensive organization.

russia should have tried not being complete garbage, then ukraine wouldn't have wanted to join nato in the first place

Forceful_Dragon posted...

And if you read the rest of my post you'd know I wasn't advocating for military intervention and was upfront about not knowing what the correct response even is.

I'm more talking to the Tulsi-esque take of "wellllll Russia had a point...." that seems to imply wrongdoing hasn't even occurred on Russia's part because they were "provoked" by the "threat" of a defensive organization.

I read the entirety of your post, the moralizing about the world needing to do action followed by "but actually I don't know what that action is" is exactly what I'm talking about. I get that everyone is stressed as hell about it but now more than ever we need to chill out and see how things develop before springing into action. Politicians are mostly talking PR and are just now announcing the sanctions, it is too early to be worried about if they don't work or aren't enough.

The Corollary draws from the Monroe Doctrine - and then adds stuff that wasn't in it! They're not the same thing and the former isn't 200 years old.

Though regarding U.S. hypocrisy and perfidy in foreign policy, since Gaddafi was mentioned, my understanding is that the Libya intervention was seen by Putin and his circle as an insult in which they were blatantly lied to. Russia avoided vetoing some U.N. resolutions with the understanding that NATO was mainly pursuing humanitarian objectives and then the latter used said resolutions to justify backing a full-on regime change that left Gaddafi dead. Incidentally, regardless of the merits of the Libya intervention, there was unquestionably no self-defense rationale for that, nor for that of the Kosovo intervention. "But human rights" is the opposite of reassuring there given that Russia on human rights is, uh, Russia. Now obviously NATO doesn't seem interested or foolish enough in starting a direct war with Russia but it makes all the self-righteous claims about how NATO is "only for self-defense" and that Russia therefore has nothing at all to worry if they don't invade Ukraine a bit much.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Ukraine gave up nukes and is being punished for it atm.

If Ukraine falls to Russia this is going to be horrific for human history.

Yes and no. Ukraine had nukes from the soviet union but they had no activation keys. They didn't have the technology to make them usable nor the money to keep up maintaining them. Getting rid of them was a no brainer choice

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Ukraine gave up nukes and is being punished for it atm.

If Ukraine falls to Russia this is going to be horrific for human history.

Noone is going to care about the events of this week within 2 years. Hell, for most people it won't even make it to the next news cycle. It's terrible for the people that are going to be directly affected by the fighting, but ultimately life will move on faster than you think

Iowa is going to switch to a flat 4% income tax.

I do not look forward to our schools and infrastructure quickly going to shit.

Especially annoying since I'm planning to have kids soon and was happy they would be attending the quality Iowa public school system. Like we literally held off because we didnt want to raise kids in Georgia and deal with their schools.

Why is it called a "flat tax" when it's still a percentage of income? They should just start charging every resident their per capita share of the current tax income. It'd be much easier to calculate, plus it's an even bigger tax cut for the rich.

That's an incredibly ignorant understanding of how taxes work.

Governments use the tax structure to drive policy and encourage people do do specific things through tax breaks. For example, giving people a tax credit for reducing energy costs through home renovations or new appliances, or tax credits for buying an electric car.

The "taxes are HAAAARD" people that can't do incredibly basic, fourth grade level math are the real problem here. Unless you're a business owner or do freelancing work, it takes 10 minutes to file your taxes. The government can't just "do it for you" as they don't have details on special programs or tax credits you may qualify for (unless you don't care about applying for those credits and are fine paying more taxes than you should be)

Because it doesnt go up as you make more income. The rate is the same for everyone.

I don't hate flat taxes, especially state taxes. Flat tax with bigger tax breaks for necessities would probably be where I would land

Though I live in Florida with a flat 0% income tax.

In more amusing news, Kyle Rittenhouse is threatening to sue multiple celebrities, including Whoopi Goldberg, LeBron James, and even Biden, because they gave the opinion that he is a murderer, and is asking for donations to do so. Or, in LeBron's case, thought his tears were fake and floated the idea that he "ate some Lemonheads" prior to his testimony.

Obviously, these defamation cases will go absolutely nowhere, but it's amusing that this "kid that just wants to be left alone" is grifting so hard.

I know when I want to be left alone, I go on Newsmax begging for donations to sue the President and LeBron James. Why can't we have more sympathy for this kid?

Earlier in the day, Biden announced Ketanji Brown Jackson as his pick to replace Breyer on SCOTUS.

https://twitter.com/NPR/status/1497215270217306118

She was the presumed frontrunner when (heck, before) the vacancy opened up but she should be a great choice.

StealThisSheen posted...

In more amusing news, Kyle Rittenhouse is threatening to sue multiple celebrities, including Whoopi Goldberg, LeBron James, and even Biden, because they gave the opinion that he is a murderer, and is asking for donations to do so. Or, in LeBron's case, thought his tears were fake and floated the idea that he "ate some Lemonheads" prior to his testimony.

Obviously, these defamation cases will go absolutely nowhere, but it's amusing that this "kid that just wants to be left alone" is grifting so hard.

I know when I want to be left alone, I go on Newsmax begging for donations to sue the President and LeBron James. Why can't we have more sympathy for this kid?

I never @ anyone as I think it's poor form, but by god am I tempted to do it to PrivateBiscuit whenever new Rittenhouse news comes up

KamikazePotato posted...

I never @ anyone as I think it's poor form, but by god am I tempted to do it to PrivateBiscuit whenever new Rittenhouse news comes up

@PrivateBiscuit1

Oh hey.

Doubtful any of those stick. He's been elevated to a celebrity status, making most defamation suits far more difficult to work when it's just stuff like that. He'd have to prove damages to his character, which I guess he got kicked out of that college for but I dunno if that's enough to pass it through any further.

The only case he probably has is the news media telling outright lies about what happened that night, which is far more likely to stick. I don't know any details about who or what organizations he actually plans to sue though but it seems unlikely to get too far.

https://twitter.com/jaredlholt/status/1497447403598888963?s=21

If youre trying to convince people that youre not a racist, maybe going to the nazi kids conference is not the best idea

(MTG was also there or course)

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Oh hey.

Doubtful any of those stick. He's been elevated to a celebrity status, making most defamation suits far more difficult to work when it's just stuff like that. He'd have to prove damages to his character, which I guess he got kicked out of that college for but I dunno if that's enough to pass it through any further.

The only case he probably has is the news media telling outright lies about what happened that night, which is far more likely to stick. I don't know any details about who or what organizations he actually plans to sue though but it seems unlikely to get too far.

He'd also have to prove malice, which I think "Whoopi Goldberg and LeBron James planned a coordinated attack to make it their mission to destroy my character" would get very far.

This is HUGE for North Carolina:

https://www.wral.com/nc-supreme-court-ok-s-new-voting-maps-for-2022-election/20153515/

Basically the map going from 11-3 GOP to 7-6 GOP.

https://twitter.com/Ajzionts/status/1497398429147967494

stand your ground laws really are just legalized murder

Maniac64 posted...

Iowa is going to switch to a flat 4% income tax.

I do not look forward to our schools and infrastructure quickly going to shit.

Especially annoying since I'm planning to have kids soon and was happy they would be attending the quality Iowa public school system. Like we literally held off because we didnt want to raise kids in Georgia and deal with their schools.

My wife is due at the end of May. Hoooooray

ZaziGuado posted...

My wife is due at the end of May. Hoooooray

Iowa went very quickly from a battleground state to a hard red state and is trying to become a super conservative state modeled after the deep south.

I really hope this backfires at some point and Reynolds, Ernst, etc get the boot but it's more likely they will just chase most the liberals out of the state.

GuessMyUserName posted...

stand your ground laws really are just legalized murder

We've known this for a while. Maybe one day someone will be threatened by this retired cop, and shoot him. I mean if he shot someone over something as little as that, if you knew who he was, you'd probably be reasonably afraid for your life.

Maniac64 posted...

Iowa went very quickly from a battleground state to a hard red state and is trying to become a super conservative state modeled after the deep south.

I really hope this backfires at some point and Reynolds, Ernst, etc get the boot but it's more likely they will just chase most the liberals out of the state.

Yeah the state of Iowa politics is annoying. People crow about the need for term limits but here we have 88-fucking-year-old Chuck Grassley running for another term in the Senate. However I'm not thrilled that the frontrunner to oppose him is the House democrat from the Dubuque district that lost this past election cycle. Reynolds being chosen to give the SOTU response just shows she's aiming to become even more of a Republican darling. The lawmaker that submitted the "cameras in classrooms during active school sessions" bill is from my damn hometown. I now live in the district represented by the lawmaker whose message to those who didn't agree with him was to flip them off.

I try not to be too pessimistic, though. I think Iowa is still fairly purple. It just took a few too many lumps last cycle and now we are dealing with Reynolds and co. taking full advantage.

I will say I like Abby. Being from Dubuque we got to see her and while she is definitely a moderate Democrat she is pretty good. And she lost to a local news woman who had much better name recognition in the area (I really hate Hinton. She has no views and literally just runs as generic republican who will do whatever the party tells her to).

But overall it just seems like IA Dems dont actually think they can beat Grassley so they are using her as a sacrificial lamb.

https://twitter.com/jdavidgoodman/status/1498710608958611460

Good to see that in Texas, transgender youth will have easier access to the gun that will end their lives than the gender reaffirming treatments that will save them.