Board 8 > B8 Yugioh Master Duel Modern & Classic Tournament Sign-ups [ygo]

(+) Yeah! (+)

Reg posted...

And this is why I play shit like Monarchs and Exodia. If I were to play a real meta deck, it'd be Dragonmaids since they A) don't seem to actually do that and B) aren't near as obnoxious-looking as Eldlich C) Big waifu energy (Raging Flame Sprite is still better tho)

Invoked Dogmatika Shaddoll, which is what I played in the tourney, is a deck with 3 different archetypes mushed together, but overall the deck is almost exclusively focused on getting cards from those 3 archetypes out (and all fusions which is cool), so it feels kind of like there's some identity there.

Okay here are my proposals for the next alternative format. We can revisit Classic at a later time since we just finished one but I want to try moving up the timeline a little and see how that works. Let me know if any of them sound like things you would be willing to build a deck for. Most of them are similar with different limitations and we could revisit the other limitations in the future as well.

Rarity Lock (All Time) - Only R/N cards from any era.
Rarity Lock (Limited) - Only R/N cards from certain era (e.g. everything until 2012, etc.)
Early Archetypes (Rarity Lock) - Early archetypes with only R/N cards
Early Archetypes (Rarity Lock, Limited SR+) - R/N cards. Allowed small amount of SR+ cards (1-3?). Cards like Raigeki, Monster Reborn could be freebies since everyone has them.
Archetypes (No Extra Deck) - this one sounds a bit redundant saying "Archetypes" ; also with possible variations similar to above: Rarity Lock, Limited SR+, timeline

if none sound interesting we'll go back to the drawing board. we could probably do full-powered early archetypes or something at a later time when people who are willing to spend resources have them built up

The "early archetypes" would be limited to archetypes that debuted during like Synchro Era or earlier. XYZ era could either be included in this one or we can side that for a different format down the line.

Sample "Early Archetype" List (will clean up later):
"Alien"
"Ally of Justice"
"Amazoness"
"Ancient Gear"
"Arcana Force"
"Armed Dragon"
"Batteryman"
"Blackwing"
"Crystal Beast"
"Cyber Dragon"
"Cyberverse"
"Dark World"
"Destiny HERO", "Vision HERO"
"Dragunity"
"Elemental HERO"
"Evil HERO", "Masked HERO", Xtra HERO
"Evol"
"Flamvell"
"Gadget"
"Genex"
"Gishki"
"Gladiator Beast"
"Gravekeeper's"
"Harpie"
"Ice Barrier"
"Inzektor"
"Lightsworn"
"LV"
"Monarch"
"Naturia"
"Poker Knights"
"Symphonic Warrior"

Obvious question is whether early archetypes allows more recent cards supporting those archetypes, or if there's a cutoff. Sounds like it would allow them, though.

I think starting with an R/N format only without time restrictions or other restrictions wouldn't be bad to start with. I'd play that.

Sceptilesolar posted...

Obvious question is whether early archetypes allows more recent cards supporting those archetypes, or if there's a cutoff. Sounds like it would allow them, though.

yeah i would include them. first because i would have to look up when everything came out for all the other cards to make a limited list. and second, all the good new cards tend to be SR+ anyway.

Sceptilesolar posted...

I think starting with an R/N format only without time restrictions or other restrictions wouldn't be bad to start with. I'd play that.

my guess is that we would probably end up playing the later archetypes but since they're so focused on extra deck summoning i might be wrong.

if anybody would be willing to play some games light testing some of these formats out, let me know. i have extra gems lying around out that i could spend on a 10x secret pack or something.

so if you have some early archetype decks, we can just take out all the SR+ cards (or have like a very limited number) and do some test games to see if it's any fun.

kateee posted...

my guess is that we would probably end up playing the later archetypes but since they're so focused on extra deck summoning i might be wrong.

I think the combination of losing their best engine cards and their best boss monsters would even the playing field a good amount.

kateee posted...

yeah i would include them.

kateee posted...

"Monarch"

I see...

Even with the N/R only restriction I may still just run some kind of OG Monarchs for stuff like this and replace all the SR/UR spells and traps with other stuff. Resources are a bit of a pain though. As long as we're sticking to Master Duel, general rarity lock (With potential exceptions for the classic staples that the game gives you for free through solo mode - Reborn, Raigeki, etc) interests me more.

All of those sound interesting to me, with the archetypes being the most interesting. I think a combination of having no extra deck + some sort of rarity lock would solve most of our problems and would lead people to mostly playing older archetypes, which is what I'd be the most interested in.

My only worry would be archetypes that have key cards at the UR/SR rarity, but in that case, it would just make more sense to not play them. The only 'early' archetype I could see being impossible to play without an extra deck is early day Heroes, with the most basic of fusion monsters (Flame Wingman, Thunder Giant). I suppose that isn't a huge deal though.

I'd be down to do some deckbuilding and testing of any format this week as long as we've settled on it for the next tourney so that I don't spend gems for no reason.

I'm not that excited by no extra deck but at least it would have to be accompanied by rarity lock because I don't want to encourage people to play Eldlich.

I'm probably up to help people test decks. I can run my Flame Sprite deck into whatever you guys want to throw at me if you think it's worth for testing. I can also try to scrounge up some changes to the free Monarch structure deck to try to make that decent in a rarity lock format to help test.

But uh, Caius and Raiza are SR what the fuck

ok i took out all the SR+ cards from my Harpie and Darklord decks and jammed some replacements in it for any possible quick and dirty testing if anybody would be down now or later on in the week. one earlier archetype and one "any time" archetype. also have Raigeki & Monster Reborn in there from the free cards.

the process took like 5 minutes so i wouldn't advise spending any gems or anything like that. just for some VERY QUICK testing to see what might work best for our next format.

basically i'm looking to see if it's going to be like unbearably slow or unplayable.

Reg posted...

But uh, Caius and Raiza are SR what the fuck

yeeup every archetype has something like this where you don't expect it. tbf i think if you were building the deck for real and got a secret pack, you would pick up a lot of those anyway. well in this specific case those guys were free

I think we should at least allow a certain number of SRs, otherwise a bunch of archetypes will just end up being unplayable altogether.

Sceptilesolar posted...

I'm not that excited by no extra deck but at least it would have to be accompanied by rarity lock because I don't want to encourage people to play Eldlich.

You'd probably have to pay everyone here to play Eldlich, so I don't think we need to worry about people skirting the rules in a B8 tournament.

Reg posted...

I'm probably up to help people test decks.

would you be able to do some in like 20-30 min.? mine do have (very bad) extra decks with generics though

davidponte posted...

I think we should at least allow a certain number of SRs, otherwise a bunch of archetypes will just end up being unplayable altogether.

Maybe, but I think forcing people to play with very suboptimal versions of their archetypes is interesting enough to be worth sacrificing a few as genuinely unplayable. The challenge of finding the ones that aren't is an exciting one and I think weakening that rule makes it less exciting.

kateee posted...

would you be able to do some in like 20-30 min.? mine do have (very bad) extra decks with generics though

Oh, I meant more in general going forward. Not tonight specifically. My bad, wasn't terribly clear.

Sceptilesolar posted...

Maybe, but I think forcing people to play with very suboptimal versions of their archetypes is interesting enough to be worth sacrificing a few as genuinely unplayable. The challenge of finding the ones that aren't is an exciting one and I think weakening that rule makes it less exciting.

I feel like playing intentionally awful decks is less fun than just playing something like goat format, for example.

davidponte posted...

I feel like playing intentionally awful decks is less fun than just playing something like goat format, for example.

Hm, well, we can try both, but it sounds much more fun to me. My interest in Goat format is close to 0 though so that's a bad baseline.

EDIT: As an example, you said you liked Blackwings? You can definitely play Blackwings with only N and Rs. Master Duel is pulling up 55 playable cards, including 5 Synchros and plenty of classics like Bora. Maybe you can't go off like you can if you have your Gales and Black Whirlwinds and etc, but that's not a downside in my book.

Reg posted...

Oh, I meant more in general going forward. Not tonight specifically. My bad, wasn't terribly clear.

no problem

somebody play my bad harpie deck. i'm itchingg to play

david likes Lightsworn not Blackwings. Mike is Blackwings

and Lightsworn without SR+ sounds a lot worse than Blackwings without them for sure.

kateee posted...

david likes Lightsworn not Blackwings. Mike is Blackwings

and Lightsworn without SR+ sounds a lot worse than Blackwings without them for sure.

They said Blackwings was top 3 for them too, I'd call that liking Blackwings.

oh i must have missed that and only seen the 'favorite' part

Yeah I looked at both of the lists. Lightsworn is unplayable, but it would still be rough even with a few SRs since you don't have access to Judgment Dragon.

Blackwings is actually one that is decent with only N/R cards. I looked through a bunch of the others on that example list provided and Blackwings would probably go undefeated in the tourney just because every other archetype relies on at least a few SRs to function.

If we had something like "3 SRs max" I think that'd work, if only because we already have enough staple SRs that you wouldn't necessarily feel the need to craft any if you don't want to.

And that could be 3 SRs total, not something like 3 copies of 3 SRs.

Blackwings was maybe a tough example since I think it's literally the most supported archetype in the entire game.

I feel like allowing 'some' SRs is just going to be an impossible line to toe, but perhaps it's needed. I just don't know how you possibly make that determination. Maybe if you were allowed 3 SRs in total? Enough for a playset of one, but nothing more than that.

I did also think about staples and my suggestion would be to allow cards given from the tutorial and starting decks, but probably nothing more than that; I don't want to get into the weeds here. But at least stuff like MST and Raigeki are probably good for most formats, and you get to throw in stuff like Blue-Eyes that you might as well allow.

EDIT: David thought of the same thing for SRs, so it's probably a good idea.

Sceptilesolar posted...

I feel like allowing 'some' SRs is just going to be an impossible line to toe, but perhaps it's needed. I just don't know how you possibly make that determination. Maybe if you were allowed 3 SRs in total? Enough for a playset of one, but nothing more than that.

I did also think about staples and my suggestion would be to allow cards given from the tutorial and starting decks, but probably nothing more than that; I don't want to get into the weeds here. But at least stuff like MST and Raigeki are probably good for most formats, and you get to throw in stuff like Blue-Eyes that you might as well allow.

EDIT: David thought of the same thing for SRs, so it's probably a good idea.

Yeah I think this is perfect. Anything given for free is fair game in terms of rarity, and then 3 SRs in total as the rarity limit.

afaik the free (or mostly) URs we could include:
Monster Reborn
Raigeki
Solemn Judgment (bundle pack)
Lightning Storm (bundle pack) - this one might be a bit iffy since it came out so much later than the other ones, the power level might not match up. but we're including newer albeit bad cards anyway and Raigeki was banned for the longest time anyway.
ROTA - i think this one's a no though because it's a massive advantage for Warrior types. even if it is only at 1. but eh

I'd be fine with saying no to Lightning Storm and ROTA and yes to everything else on the list you just mentioned.

What about the starter decks? Those are certainly more free than the bundle packs, if that's your criteria. Among the more interesting URs there you have Five-Headed Dragon and Decode Talker. Also Blue-Eyes, Duel Assembwurm, Colossal Warrior, Rasterliger, and Traffic Ghost (why?). Plus tons of SRs.

Kind of fiddly again at that point.

Just to be clear, we're at no extra deck with the archetypes, right?

davidponte posted...

Just to be clear, we're at no extra deck with the archetypes, right?

That was one option proposed, and at least, not one I favor.

I guess if we're limiting rarities the extra deck wouldn't be too overpowered. I am worried that it would immediately powercreep a bunch of older archetypes though.

When it comes to rarity restriction, archetype restriction, and no extra deck, I'm interested in any 2 out of 3 selection, but the full 3 seems like too much.

Yeah any 2 seem fine. I think I'd also pick archetype + rarity limit.

I also agree with any two of those being fine.

...Is "Exodia" an archetype? I spectated a game today that turned out to be a super sick-looking RML/Exodia deck, much better than my current Blue Eyes engine.

I'd say so, yeah

this is the harpie deck i came up with in 5 min.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/1/4/4/AAcxR5AAC7DA.jpg

it looks fun at first glance. obviously significantly worse and slower than any regular deck but it's not like it's devoid of special summons. i think it's hilarious that i threw Luster Dragon in there because of supposed wind & dragon synergy and it actually worked out.

with 3 SRs:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/1/4/5/AAcxR5AAC7DB.jpg

one interesting thing about the 3 SR limitation is the choice you have to make. but it also seems like it could just end up being race to get to your SR cards. i think even having an extra deck with generics would at least help in that regard. i suppose the same thing i said could also apply here where the strongest generics end up running things but also some archetypes without extra decks are just like lv 1/2/3 weenies.

Alright I'm going to attempt to make a deck with 3 SRs and an extra deck now. I'll probably go Blackwings just because of my history with them. I'm sure Mike and I will end up with similar decks, but that's cool.

Not sure if I'll have time to test it out tonight, but would be down for some playing tomorrow afternoon/evening.

Sceptilesolar posted...

What about the starter decks?

i haven't looked at them but how far do you have to get in solo mode? i might not even have them. i know you got the one free one that you could choose in the beginning.

Reborn and Raigeki were in the first tutorial section, Judgment in the bundle section that your first time login could cover. i think you could get them all within like 5 minutes of opening the game for the first time. either way i wouldn't want to make the list of allowed URs that long.

today in "Old Archetypes i never knew about"

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/4/0/AAcxR5AAC7Eg.jpg https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/4/1/AAcxR5AAC7Eh.jpg

all right i'm compiling the list of archetypes. there are so fucking many of them. i started with the list of all the Secret Packs in the game then loosely divided them into eras.

in my mind there's basically four eras that archetypes could be divided into. i'll list some examples within the eras. note that this is almost an arbitrary personal one.

Synchro Era - everything that came out before the release of XYZ. This largely includes archetypes that debuted in DM sets as well but because archetypes weren't as prevalent as they are now, there was not much support or you couldn't actually build a whole deck around it (e.g. Red-Eyes).
Includes: Gravekeepers, Harpies, Toons; Agents, Dark World, Monarchs; Blackwing, Glad Beasts, Lightsworn, Six Sam, etc.

XYZ era - everything after Synchro but before Pendulum. this is where it might get arbitrary because some people lump Pends along with the later half of XYZ because of the anime airing at the time i believe. But the divide in my mind is at the release of Pendulum not only because i happened to quit at that time but also because it was another summoning mechanic that completely changed the game
Includes: Bujin, Fire Fist, Inzektor, lswarm, Madolche, Mermail, Prophecy (Spellbooks), Wind-Up, etc.

Pend era - from Pends to Links
Includes: Burning Abyss, Fluffal, Ghostrick, Nekroz, Shaddoll, etc.

Link era - everything after that

it seems like we're leaning towards the direction of rarity lock early archetypes? would people be interested in including the above-mentioned "XYZ era" for the first pool or limiting to just Synchro era?

either way i'm culling the list down because some of these archetype pages on the wiki are not "real" archetypes and have like three cards or whatever. i'll post "official" archetype lists and rules with the official signup thread later on in the week once we finalize everything.

kateee posted...

either way i'm culling the list down

i'm giving up on this. it just seems so arbitrary on what to cut and what to keep. then i have to examine whether or not it's playable in the custom format i.e. literally unplayable because there aren't enough cards in the archetype after removing all the SR+s and not as a hyperbole. and it all seems like too much when i'm kind of expecting most of the archetypes listed to get ignored anyway. there's probably some that could be basically combined as well e.g. Mermails/Atlanteans are pretty much played together most of the time.

so i'll just post the list i've got and if people are interested in one archetype, try to build it and find that it's LITERALLY unplayable i'll take it off the list then.

maybe we can use the full list for an archetype randomizer thing down the road.

i used this to start off (every archetype that has a Secret Pack in Master Duel):
https://yugipedia.com/wiki/Secret_Pack

Synchro Era (Again, note that some may actually be unplayable or have other issues):
Agent
Alien
Ally of Justice
Amazoness
Ancient Gear
Arcana Force
Archfiend
Armed Dragon
B.E.S.
Batteryman
Black Luster Soldier
Blackwing
Blue-Eyes
Bonding
Buster Blader
Chaos
Charmer
Crystal Beast
Cyber Dragon
Dark Magician
Dark World
Dinosaur
Dragunity
Earthbound Immortal
Egyptian God
Endymion
Exodia
Fabled
Fire King
Flamvell
Fortune Fairy/Fortune Lady
Fossil
Gadget
Gaia the Fierce Knight
Genex
Gishki
Gladiator Beast
Gravekeeper
Guardian
Harpie
Herald
HERO
Ice Barrier
Infernity
Junk
Jurrac
Karakuri
Laval
Lightsworn
LV
Machina
Malefic
Meklord
Mist Valley
Monarch
Morphtronic
Mythical Beasts
Naturia
Neo-Spacian
Nephthys
Ninja
Noble Knight
Nordic
Ojama
Poker Knights
Red Dragon Archfiend
Red-Eyes
Reptilianne
Resonator
Roid
Rose
Sacred Beast
Scrap
Six Samurai
Stardust
Symphonic Warrior
Synchron
T.G.
Thunder Dragon
Timelord
Toon
Vampire
Venom
Volcanic
Vylon
Watt
Wicked Beast
Wight
Worm
X-Saber
Yubel

XYZ era:
Atlantean
Battlin' Boxer
Bujin
Chronomaly
Constellar
Cxyz
Duston
Evol
Felgrand
Fire Fist
Gagaga/Gogogo/Dododo/Zubaba
Galaxy
Geargia
Gem-Knight
Gimmick Puppet
Gusto
Hazy Flame
Heraldic Beast
Heroic
Hieratic
Inzektor
lswarm
Madolche
Mecha Phantom Beast
Mermail
Mystical Beast of the Forest"
Noble Arms
Number
Number 10X
Numeron
Photon
Prophecy
Shark
Star Seraph
Sylvan
Train
Traptrix
Umbral Horror
Utopia
Wind-Up
ZW

I've made a Blackwing deck if anyone wants to get some practice in later today.

I threw together a Monarch deck that's both R/N only and no extra deck too, will be available for things after 6 Eastern or so

Wont be home until like 830 Pacific

Either of you still around then?

I'm generally sleeping by then during the week to be up for work, but I can work with that on Thursday night since I have Friday off.

kateee posted...

Wont be home until like 830 Pacific

Either of you still around then?

Nope. I'm pretty much always in bed by then too.