Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 379: Kabulshit

(+) Yeah! (+)

Running against Trump will work if Trump is on the ballot again. That's the dilemma for Republicans in 2024. And if they don't run Trump, they don't really have anyone who has interesting ideas that are actually popular.

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Xeybozn posted...

That's exactly what the Dems are trying in the Virginia governor race right now. The polls currently have them winning by about 3 points, which is much worse than Biden's 10 point win in last year's elections. Hopefully the polls are just wrong somehow, but it doesn't look like running against Trump is going to help Dems much now.

3.5% of people in Virginia being anti Trump Republicans doesn't seem impossible.

I haven't been following the race well enough to know for sure, but Democrats aren't doing anything that would keep that group

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I do think that running against socialism can work once again. There was a moment of opportunity around 2016 for socialists like Bernie to win, because a lot of the country was suffering economically at that point and people were waking up to the reality that 35 years of Reaganomics from both parties had hurt, not helped, them. But the economy has been great recently. People feel comfortable enough to quit their jobs. People have money again, which they are afraid of losing if the socialists get into power. So the moment is gone.

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masterplum posted...

3.5% of people in Virginia being anti Trump Republicans doesn't seem impossible.

I haven't been following the race well enough to know for sure, but Democrats aren't doing anything that would keep that group

The entire push for all the Youngkin ads I've seen seem to focus around "McAuliffe doesn't want parents to decide what their children get taught". I don't remember the full context of why he said that during their debate.

But also...why should/would parents be deciding?!? Are we going to start putting educational topics on the ballot? Vote YES on WW2 history, Vote NO for Vietnam? It's ridiculous!

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Seanchan posted...

The entire push for all the Youngkin ads I've seen seem to focus around "McAuliffe doesn't want parents to decide what their children get taught". I don't remember the full context of why he said that during their debate.

But also...why should/would parents be deciding?!? Are we going to start putting educational topics on the ballot? Vote YES on WW2 history, Vote NO for Vietnam? It's ridiculous!

We can move toward mandatory homeschooling. All parents will be required to design a personalized curriculum for their children. Different personalized curricula can even include different facts about the same topic. Children will initially believe their parents are right, but as they interact with other students who are being taught different things, the goal can be for them to eventually realize, by the time they reach 12th grade, that objective reality does not exist.

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Seanchan posted...

The entire push for all the Youngkin ads I've seen seem to focus around "McAuliffe doesn't want parents to decide what their children get taught". I don't remember the full context of why he said that during their debate.

But also...why should/would parents be deciding?!? Are we going to start putting educational topics on the ballot? Vote YES on WW2 history, Vote NO for Vietnam? It's ridiculous!

Seems like a fairly standard conservative argument.

I'm confused why leftists are surprised traditional conservative talking points are still popular when an insane racist was elected president.

Like obviously he can win, people who aren't obvious racist morons are more likely to win

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kevwaffles posted...

As a reminder, historically the newly incumbent party doesn't do well in midterms regardless.

(2018 was an exception in the Senate just because so few R seats were even up.

Might as well do nothing in the meantime.

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Seanchan posted...

The entire push for all the Youngkin ads I've seen seem to focus around "McAuliffe doesn't want parents to decide what their children get taught". I don't remember the full context of why he said that during their debate.

But also...why should/would parents be deciding?!? Are we going to start putting educational topics on the ballot? Vote YES on WW2 history, Vote NO for Vietnam? It's ridiculous!

Isn't that whole thing related to the CRT controversy? I missed the second debate, but I assumed McAuliffe was basically saying that the curriculum shouldn't be decided by those angry mobs showing up at county government meetings lately. Which Youngkin is using as proof that McAuliffe hates parents and plans to use big government to brainwash young children into hating white people and becoming trans and such.
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masterplum posted...

I'm confused why leftists are surprised traditional conservative talking points are still popular when an insane racist was elected president.

Less surprised, more disappointed.

It's like when your uncle tells you he's going to stop gambling and buy you a pony with the money he saves. When you find him at the horse races 3 days in a row, you're not surprised. You're just disappointed. You didn't expect better of him, but that doesn't make it sting any less.

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Xeybozn posted...

Isn't that whole thing related to the CRT controversy? I missed the second debate, but I assumed McAuliffe was basically saying that the curriculum shouldn't be decided by those angry mobs showing up at county government meetings lately. Which Youngkin is using as proof that McAuliffe hates parents and plans to use big government to brainwash young children into hating white people and becoming trans and such.

That's exactly what I would assume it would be.

I've still never heard of CRT outside of the context of Fox News making it "a thing". They rile up the ignorant mob about it, then the GOP candidate makes it a campaign "issue" to appeases the mob. It's somewhat fucking brilliant in its awfulness.

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In the future, conservatives will be campaigning on issues that are provably not true. That's why they've primed their base to be conspiracy nuts.

"Madison Cawthorn 2028! Democrats have BLOWN UP THE SUN to stop their FAKE GLOBAL WARMING. Madison Cawthorn promises to bring it back!"

"The Dems are so evil! Can't believe they blew up the sun."

"Then what's that up there in the sky right now?"

"IT'S A FAKE SUN CREATED BY DEMS TO FOOL PEOPLE INTO THINKING THE SUN IS STILL UP THERE"

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Not to derail but damn some of these "interviews" when Jordan Klepper goes to another Trump rally (first since he went to the 1/6 one):

https://twitter.com/TheDailyShow/status/1450272513066369025

"Highlight" at 3:23 when he talks to a guy in a Q shirt.

Klepper: Who is running the government right now?
Trump Supporter: President Trump.
Klepper: He's running the government?
Trump Supporter: And the military.
Klepper: And he's running the military. So... we should blame him for what happened in Afghanistan?
Trump Supporter: ... ...No.
Klepper: But it's still his fault.
Trump Supporter: .........It's way beyond my...
Klepper: Understanding?
Trump Support: I don't-I-um-I-uh...

...Or maybe at 4:50 where he's talking to a different Trump supporter about who was really behind 1/6 that goes in one of the craziest directions possible: That the video of people chasing a taking off plane during the Afghanistan evacuation was faked ("It's a balloon plane.") and that the Q Shaman is not a Trump Supporter but was in fact one of the people in that video and is actually in Afghanistan.

Klepper [incredulous, trying to not laugh]: He was in Afghanistan?
Trump Supporter 2: Yes! Look at the pictures!
Klepper: I think he's in jail right now.
Trump Supporter 2: No! That's what they tell-Who's gonna-

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No, no, no, it's at 1:20 when he interviews the 2 women wearing American flag overalls who insist they are not in a cult...but also love everything Trump spews out of his mouth.

As an atheist...god help us.

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Dancedreamer posted...

In the future, conservatives will be campaigning on issues that are provably not true.

...In the future??

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Kenri posted...

...In the future??

What, are you saying you have proof that Trump lost?
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https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1450952154806632448?s=21

Sinema is an op

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Sounds like the BBB childcare plan is kind of a disaster

https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/1450834885095174146?s=21

I really hope they end up picking subset of priorities (e.g. climate) and actually do them well rather than this fund every single Dem priority for a couple years off of 10 years of new taxes idea some are pushing (the latter increasing the probability that each program will be implemented poorly and be ended anyway in the likely event the GOP controls Congress when they expire).

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1450952154806632448?s=21

Sinema is an op

I don't know if Sinema wants Biden out of office, but I'm not sure how she could be doing a more effective job of ensuring it than tanking the cornerstone of his policy for seemingly no reason.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

I really hope they end up picking subset of priorities (e.g. climate) and actually do them well rather than this fund every single Dem priority for a couple years off of 10 years of new taxes idea some are pushing (the latter increasing the probability that each program will be implemented poorly and be ended anyway in the likely event the GOP controls Congress when they expire).

The problem here is that a large part of their voter base are either just completely unreasonable, or completely ignorant to the mechanics of running a country. I've hear way too many people talk about how they can "write off student debt and it doesn't cost any money!". The people in the "socialist" camp don't understand how they are shooting themselves in the foot by having this "all or nothing" mindset. Student debt is a great example, since there are lots of reasonable plans out there such as reducing/eliminating interest payments, or assisting with the debt for people below certain income thresholds, but the popular narrative on social media is that the only solution there is "wipe out all debt and make school free, and damn the consequences"

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BlAcK TuRtLe posted...

The problem here is that a large part of their voter base are either just completely unreasonable, or completely ignorant to the mechanics of running a country. I've hear way too many people talk about how they can "write off student debt and it doesn't cost any money!". The people in the "socialist" camp don't understand how they are shooting themselves in the foot by having this "all or nothing" mindset. Student debt is a great example, since there are lots of reasonable plans out there such as reducing/eliminating interest payments, or assisting with the debt for people below certain income thresholds, but the popular narrative on social media is that the only solution there is "wipe out all debt and make school free, and damn the consequences"

And you're surprised that the general populace is unable to understand nuance and things that aren't black/white or all/nothing?

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Nowhere did I say I was surprised. The issue here isn't that these people are ignorant to the economic and societal implications of what they're demanding, the issue is that they are willfully ignorant, and refuse to listen to reason, or any expert opinion that disagrees with their prebuilt narrative/bias.

Gosh this crowd is starting to sound an awful lot like another group of people, known for wearing red baseball caps

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I can't argue that a certain portion of those people are divorced from reality, though I will say I think it comes from a better place, or at least the idea of a better tomorrow, than the red hat wearers.

I think it's just the end result of the fact that incrementalism doesn't work as policy when the other side refuses to make any changes whatsoever. Asking for 1 now, then 1 each year thereafter doesn't work because they'll say "ONE IS TOO MUCH". So you just say "fuck it" and ask for 50 because you might as well.

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BT sure is sounding awful familiar right now, lol.

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Seanchan posted...

I can't argue that a certain portion of those people are divorced from reality, though I will say I think it comes from a better place, or at least the idea of a better tomorrow, than the red hat wearers.

I think it's just the end result of the fact that incrementalism doesn't work as policy when the other side refuses to make any changes whatsoever. Asking for 1 now, then 1 each year thereafter doesn't work because they'll say "ONE IS TOO MUCH". So you just say "fuck it" and ask for 50 because you might as well.

Yes this is a direct result of Republicans not playing ball and most Democrats not wanting to attempt anything other than incrementalism. Progressives are haphazardly trying to cram as much as they can into one bill because this could be the last major Democratic bill passed for the next decade.

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Actually got a few more than two R yes votes on the Bannon contempt resolution

https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1451275979268272129?s=21

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Yes this is a direct result of Republicans not playing ball and most Democrats not wanting to attempt anything other than incrementalism. Progressives are haphazardly trying to cram as much as they can into one bill because this could be the last major Democratic bill passed for the next decade.

It didn't work for the Republicans either. They've gotten one major bill passed in the last 15 years.

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I feel like people here can't really complain when they were cheering the same way for McCain to be this person for Republicans.

The Democrats tried to put a lot of sweeping changes in under an INFRASTRUCTURE Bill. Including changes that are absolutely a poison pill for Manchin in West Virginia. Not much of this is surprising. I did think they would have gotten more than they are going to, but Trump himself spent like 3 years trying to pass his own infrastructure bill as well to no avail.

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It's really the Dunning-Kreuger effect in action if you think about it. People on either extremes of the political spectrum are CONVINCED that their beliefs are reality, and that their ideas are the only way to progress as a society.

Thankfully reality disagrees with these concepts and we somehow have managed to keep things for the most part on the track. That doesn't stop the Twitter brigades from screaming from the rafters about how "cEnTrIsM = NaZi" or whatever garbage they're pushing. As if "centrism" is apolitical ideology, instead of the intelligent and rational thinkers evaluating topics on a case by case basis instead of just defaulting to what some messed up "ideology" tells you to think.

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Luckily, you are the expert on the Dunning-Kreuger[sic] effect around here!

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BlAcK TuRtLe posted...

That doesn't stop the Twitter brigades from screaming from the rafters about how "cEnTrIsM = NaZi" or whatever garbage they're pushing.

shout-out to that time famous twitter brigader Martin Luther King Jr. said that white moderates might be worse than the KKK

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oh looks like corrik isn't the only enlightened centrist in this topic anymore

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https://twitter.com/burgessev/status/1451280793054154762?s=21

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Mr Lasastryke posted...

oh looks like corrik isn't the only enlightened centrist in this topic anymore

lol, are you really going to make me say who BT is almost literally repeating verbatim?

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Kenri posted...

shout-out to that time famous twitter brigader Martin Luther King Jr. said that white moderates might be worse than the KKK

If that is an actual quote, it was an incredibly stupid thing said by a smart man

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It is a little out of context. He obviously didnt mean that white moderates are worse than someone thats in the KKK at a time the KKK was actively trying to lynch people. He more meant they were a bigger barrier to progress which is a much more understandable point imo

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Suprak the Stud posted...

It is a little out of context. He obviously didnt mean that white moderates are worse than someone thats in the KKK at a time the KKK was actively trying to lynch people. He more meant they were a bigger barrier to progress which is a much more understandable point imo

First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizens Councillor or the Ku Klux Klanner but the white moderate who is more devoted to order than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says, "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically feels that he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time; and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.

https://www.csuchico.edu/iege/_assets/documents/susi-letter-from-birmingham-jail.pdf

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Yes? I mean letter from a Birmingham jail was directly what I was referencing.

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Just quoting it for those following along at home.

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Oh gotcha. Sorry I misunderstood!

But yeah I think that extra context helps delineate why that moderate blob can be a bigger barrier to progress that fringe extremists.

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Its past midnight and I work at 8 so its low brow hours:

https://twitter.com/hasanthehun/status/1451378329118920707?s=21

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After reading that full quote my original statement stands, that it is an incredibly dumb thing to say. If outright racist groups like the KKK didn't exist, there would be no "understanding" necessary as black people would be treated as equals without prejudice.

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The idea is that in the face of the KKK the solution is obvious and its easy to go Yeah we want the opposite of that, but in the face of white moderate obstructionism, anything you say or do paints YOU as the extremist.

Case in point:

Gosh this crowd is starting to sound an awful lot like another group of people, known for wearing red baseball caps

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SCOTUS to hear two challenges to Texas's abortion bounty law on November 1 (one from DOJ another from the providers) but still refuses to bar enforcement of it in the meantime (a fact that Sotomayor notes in a dissent on that aspect)

I'm pretty sure the end result is that the court will strike down Texas's law on the basis that the bounty system is fucking insane (and perhaps more relevantly because that is no longer enough to actually think it matters to this court, if they say that's cool, could easily be used against things they actually care about, like the Second Amendment) and to try and pretend they're not complete partisan hacks by going "see look how centrist we are we struck down that ban! (note: we didn't actually touch that part we just struck down a particular enforcement scheme)" before using the Mississippi case to eviscerate or even outright overturn Roe later in the term.

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Mississippi is 15 weeks?

Yeah, I think Im ok with that. I dont like that there are no provisions for health but 15 weeks is pretty close to person hood.

I still support child support starting at that time and better supporting the mother and child but 15 weeks seems normal compared to the insanity of 6 weeks (which in pregnancy weeks could be as little as 2 weeks from missed period)

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Mississippi outright asked the court to overturn Roe. Like beyond the merits of the case over its law itself they explicitly requested the court to overturn Roe.

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https://www.newsweek.com/ron-desantis-planning-5k-bonus-unvaccinated-police-relocate-florida-1642018

Jesus Christ, you can't be president until early 2025, stop campaigning on winning the primary right now.

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They have to keep replacing their Florida voters that are dying of COVID.

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masterplum posted...

Mississippi is 15 weeks?

Yeah, I think Im ok with that. I dont like that there are no provisions for health but 15 weeks is pretty close to person hood.

I still support child support starting at that time and better supporting the mother and child but 15 weeks seems normal compared to the insanity of 6 weeks (which in pregnancy weeks could be as little as 2 weeks from missed period)

Ahh, yes. Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and stripping rights away from those troublesome womenfolk. But only the poor ones!

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StealThisSheen posted...

Ahh, yes. Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and stripping rights away from those troublesome womenfolk. But only the poor ones!

Yes you are right, I would prefer 10 weeks to 15 weeks but I didnt get to make the law

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I mean, what Mississippi is trying to do is disgusting for a lot more reasons than just the length of time, seems pretty gross to support it.

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