Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 377: Nonconsent of the Governed

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Heroic_TuRtLe
08/16/21 10:41:08 PM
#252:


ExThaNemesis posted...
I'm not very well versed in the conflict. Why did the Soviets want to invade that place anyway? Oil?
tl;dr, violent coup took place which put the communist party in charge, the rest of the country was in open revolt, and the Soviets needed to send backup to keep their puppet government from falling.
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TheRock1525
08/16/21 10:42:19 PM
#253:


Recent polling showed that 69% of Democrats still support withdrawal.

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Heroic_TuRtLe
08/16/21 10:54:02 PM
#254:


TheRock1525 posted...
Recent polling showed that 69% of Democrats still support withdrawal.
That's not a surprise. Most level headed people are apalled at what the Taliban is doing, but acknowledge there really isn't anything we can do about it
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MoogleKupo141
08/16/21 11:40:09 PM
#255:


why arent we just doing drone stuff

like we knew the taliban would take the presidents house or whatever, so we should have just put a bunch of drones in there to surprise them with bullets

Put me in charge, dummies

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kevwaffles
08/17/21 1:55:26 AM
#256:


We tried, but we didn't realize they had Admiral Ackbar advising them. Needless to say the were prepared just in time.

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Peace___Frog
08/17/21 8:37:52 AM
#257:


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RaidenGarai
08/17/21 9:18:35 AM
#258:


The GOP is going to attack them no matter what they do, why let fear of their attacks change anything.

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Corrik7
08/17/21 9:23:04 AM
#259:


TheRock1525 posted...
Recent polling showed that 69% of Democrats still support withdrawal.
That's pretty damn low actually.

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masterplum
08/17/21 9:27:46 AM
#260:


My guess is Afghan withdrawal approval will go back up after the initial news cycle dies down.

The Taliban isnt shooting at planes taking off. They want us gone. I wouldnt expect any particularly newsworthy headlines of barbarianism restoking flames

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Heroic_TuRtLe
08/17/21 9:38:15 AM
#261:


Peace___Frog posted...
Hooray for cowardice
https://twitter.com/AlexanderMcCoy4/status/1427477233292255236?s=19
To be fair, letting in millions of refugees is exactly what got Europe into the situation that it is currently in. It would be political suicide to do the same in the US. Ultimately, Afghanis have to be responsible for resolving their own issues, as clearly we can't fix them for them.
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masterplum
08/17/21 9:58:10 AM
#262:


Heroic_TuRtLe posted...
To be fair, letting in millions of refugees is exactly what got Europe into the situation that it is currently in. It would be political suicide to do the same in the US. Ultimately, Afghanis have to be responsible for resolving their own issues, as clearly we can't fix them for them.


Ehhh

I feel that isn't a fair comparison. Immigration was an EU issue mainly because the members had such radically different views on it which created a large schism. While immigration is a fairly large issue to the GOP, it really isn't one of the largest ones imo.

I don't think the democrats are pro immigrant enough or GOP anti immigrant enough for it to be the flash point it was in the EU, especially with the coronavirus blanketing everything


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HeroDelTiempo17
08/17/21 10:21:59 AM
#263:


Peace___Frog posted...
Hooray for cowardice
https://twitter.com/AlexanderMcCoy4/status/1427477233292255236?s=19

This is so awful and so on-brand for them

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xp1337
08/17/21 10:34:32 AM
#264:


TheRock1525 posted...
Recent polling showed that 69% of Democrats still support withdrawal.
It's basically a 20 point drop from 4 months ago across the board.

Mid-April -> Mid-September (before Biden speech)
Support Withdrawal-Oppose

Overall: 69-16 -> 49-37
Dems: 84-6 -> 69-19
"Independents": 66-15 -> 41-38
Republicans: 52-33 -> 31-58

Dems saw the smallest drop in support but it's still a noticeable chunk. GOP flips from supporting withdrawal by about 20 points to opposing it by almost 30. Overall support for withdrawing is still +12 net but basically entirely on the back of Dem support.

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masterplum
08/17/21 10:41:54 AM
#265:


The good news for Dems is this really isnt a campaignable issue

What are Republicans going to do? Campaign on reinvading Afghanistan?

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ChaosTonyV4
08/17/21 10:45:02 AM
#266:


HeroDelTiempo17 posted...
This is so awful and so on-brand for them

This, and also

Heroic_TuRtLe posted...
To be fair, letting in millions of refugees is exactly what got Europe into the situation that it is currently in. It would be political suicide to do the same in the US. Ultimately, Afghanis have to be responsible for resolving their own issues, as clearly we can't fix them for them.

While I 100% disagree with it, this message WOULD have resonated with the right, preventing basically any Afghan refugees while we were still there, and it would definitely have been a fight.

It obviously would have been a far superior choice, morally and politically, but it would have been hard, and we all (should) know now that this Administration prefers the easy road, its why they jettisoned student debt relief and healthcare from their agenda completely.

(sorry for being this way lol)

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Corrik7
08/17/21 11:07:55 AM
#267:


masterplum posted...
The good news for Dems is this really isnt a campaignable issue

What are Republicans going to do? Campaign on reinvading Afghanistan?
Actually it is a disaster for Biden if Trump re-runs. Trump will run on how he would have done it better and was winding down troops and withdrawing without this backlash. Biden will state Trump is what let the Taliban foster in the first place, but Trump is gonna have ads of the planes and such to win that amongst independents.

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DoomTheGyarados
08/17/21 11:11:24 AM
#268:


If Trump wins re-election in 2024 I am literally, and I mean literally, just moving to some small island and await the end days.

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masterplum
08/17/21 11:12:56 AM
#269:


Corrik7 posted...
Actually it is a disaster for Biden if Trump re-runs. Trump will run on how he would have done it better and was winding down troops and withdrawing without this backlash. Biden will state Trump is what let the Taliban foster in the first place, but Trump is gonna have ads of the planes and such to win that amongst independents.

Oh, you are already in 2024. I can't imagine anyone remembering this at the time with how whiplash the news cycle has been over the last couple years.

The main 2024 debate could be whether to send troops to Taiwan for all we know.

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xp1337
08/17/21 11:24:55 AM
#270:


DoomTheGyarados posted...
If Trump wins re-election in 2024 I am literally, and I mean literally, just moving to some small island and await the end days.
It truly would be "something" if Trump, the one who had the Taliban leader expected to be declared President of Afghanistan released from prison, the one who signed the agreement to have US forces withdraw, who attacked Biden for extending the withdrawal date by a few months, could manage to turn this into a "positive" issue for him.

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ExThaNemesis
08/17/21 11:26:07 AM
#271:


do we really think Trump tries again in 2024 after he already lost the second most winnable election of all time pretty convincingly lol

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Inviso
08/17/21 11:27:56 AM
#272:


ExThaNemesis posted...
do we really think Trump tries again in 2024 after he already lost the second most winnable election of all time pretty convincingly lol

Second-most winnable election of all time?

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Not_an_Owl
08/17/21 11:32:51 AM
#273:


Trump is running again unless he's dead or bedridden, and I honestly wouldn't put money on either condition actually stopping him.

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GuessMyUserName
08/17/21 11:47:46 AM
#274:


ExThaNemesis posted...
pretty convincingly lol
not for the disturbing many that believe it's a fraud

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LinkMarioSamus
08/17/21 12:14:50 PM
#275:


Not_an_Owl posted...
Trump is running again unless he's dead or bedridden, and I honestly wouldn't put money on either condition actually stopping him.

He'll probably get voted against en masse again and then conservatives will just cry that the election is rigged without acknowledging deficiencies with their candidate.

Trump lost the popular vote to HILLARY CLINTON, someone who many Americans were sick and tired of due to being a fixture of U.S. politics for over two decades. Any remotely decent candidate should be able to win an election against Trump.

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Corrik7
08/17/21 1:44:45 PM
#276:


ExThaNemesis posted...
do we really think Trump tries again in 2024 after he already lost the second most winnable election of all time pretty convincingly lol

The margin he lost on was slim as hell. If he can turn just 150k votes just purely based on nostalgia, he wins in 2024.

Trump had the 2nd most votes all time by any candidate. The question is if Biden is winning over people who didn't vote for him now vs people who just wanted change or get disillusioned with Biden. You don't have Trump's missteps in focus and recency compared to Biden's now. Biden will be the one who didn't get rid of student loan debt, ended unemployment boosts, the afghanistan debacle, most likely didn't end covid, etc etc.

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Stripperiffic
08/17/21 1:49:22 PM
#277:


Corrik7 posted...
The margin he lost on was slim as hell. If he can turn just 150k votes just purely based on nostalgia, he wins in 2024.

Nostalgia for what, exactly?
Half a million Amercians dying?
Kids being put in cages?
Having an absolutely incompetent moron in charge?
Having the most inept administration?

Only people who already voted for Donald Trump in 2020 will have nostalgia for that shit.
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kevwaffles
08/17/21 2:10:16 PM
#278:


"Man I miss Covid!"

-New Trump voters, 2024
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Dancedreamer
08/17/21 2:19:18 PM
#279:


I don't imagine killing off your base does well for you in 2024.

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Not_an_Owl
08/17/21 2:20:59 PM
#280:


Dancedreamer posted...
I don't imagine killing off your base does well for you in 2024.
Do you honestly believe any Republican voter is going to remember how terribly Trump mismanaged COVID? They're going to point to the numbers of unvaccinated people dying of Delta and scream about how Biden's incompetent and anyone could have handled things better.

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masterplum
08/17/21 2:24:19 PM
#281:


Not_an_Owl posted...
Do you honestly believe any Republican voter is going to remember how terribly Trump mismanaged COVID? They're going to point to the numbers of unvaccinated people dying of Delta and scream about how Biden's incompetent and anyone could have handled things better.

Unless they are dead.

600,000 dead isnt nothing. Im curious if Delta (or worse) keeps up if that might actually change vote counts


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red sox 777
08/17/21 2:27:55 PM
#282:


I don't think 2024 is going to go well for Trump. He hasn't made any moves to win back people on the fences.

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FFDragon
08/17/21 2:31:26 PM
#283:


I mean I read last week that covid deaths in Florida now exceed DeSantis' margin of victory.

So they are now literally dying to own the libs. And could have real impact on future elections.

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DoomTheGyarados
08/17/21 2:34:46 PM
#284:


FFDragon posted...
I mean I read last week that covid deaths in Florida now exceed DeSantis' margin of victory.

So they are now literally dying to own the libs. And could have real impact on future elections.

Huh

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red sox 777
08/17/21 2:35:27 PM
#285:


Keep in mind also that the first Covid wave overwhelmingly struck blue areas, since it spread first in cities which are linked to travel, conferences, and international travel. The death tally since the election is going to be very lopsided toward Republicans.

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Corrik7
08/17/21 2:51:41 PM
#286:


Stripperiffic posted...
Nostalgia for what, exactly?
Half a million Amercians dying?
Kids being put in cages?
Having an absolutely incompetent moron in charge?
Having the most inept administration?

Only people who already voted for Donald Trump in 2020 will have nostalgia for that shit.
Nostalgia makes you think something in the past was better than it really was.

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LinkMarioSamus
08/17/21 2:53:34 PM
#287:


red sox 777 posted...
Keep in mind also that the first Covid wave overwhelmingly struck blue areas, since it spread first in cities which are linked to travel, conferences, and international travel. The death tally since the election is going to be very lopsided toward Republicans.

Somewhere I read this was part of the reason why the Trump administration didn't take the pandemic seriously.

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HeroDelTiempo17
08/17/21 3:01:36 PM
#288:


Not_an_Owl posted...
Do you honestly believe any Republican voter is going to remember how terribly Trump mismanaged COVID? They're going to point to the numbers of unvaccinated people dying of Delta and scream about how Biden's incompetent and anyone could have handled things better.

People also gotta remember that a large part of the conservative mindset was "COVID is inevitable and can't be stopped, sure people are gonna die but it won't be that bad" and then when it was actually worse it became "oh well COVID was inevitable and it can't be helped"

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LinkMarioSamus
08/17/21 3:06:09 PM
#289:


Or outright blaming China for it without taking any responsibility.

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Peace___Frog
08/17/21 3:16:11 PM
#290:


I don't want us to assume that every covid death is from an anti-vaxxer lib-hater. There's going to be lower class folks who can't find the time, or public transit to, a vaccine appointment are included in those deaths.

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Jakyl25
08/17/21 3:18:50 PM
#291:


ExThaNemesis posted...
do we really think Trump tries again in 2024 after he already lost the second most winnable election of all time pretty convincingly lol

who else do they have?

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KamikazePotato
08/17/21 3:21:13 PM
#292:


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ChaosTonyV4
08/17/21 3:21:55 PM
#293:


Jakyl25 posted...
who else do they have?

Speaking of DeSantis, a MAGA chud I went to high school with shared a Twitter post from frickin Cernovich saying DeSantis should take the torch from Trump.

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Jakyl25
08/17/21 3:23:46 PM
#294:


Current betting market odds for the GOP nomination, top 10



Trump is honestly one of the better options here

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Dancedreamer
08/17/21 3:28:36 PM
#295:


Not_an_Owl posted...
Do you honestly believe any Republican voter is going to remember how terribly Trump mismanaged COVID?

I meant in terms of numbers. Like... killing off your base doesn't get the living members to stop voting for you, but the dead ones? Yeah, they can't vote.

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Seanchan
08/17/21 3:36:16 PM
#296:


Peace___Frog posted...
I don't want us to assume that every covid death is from an anti-vaxxer lib-hater. There's going to be lower class folks who can't find the time, or public transit to, a vaccine appointment are included in those deaths.

Yes, the vaxx rates among minorities is substantially lower than rates for whites.

In terms of 2024, none of the shit happening today is going to matter. 80% of the country is already going to vote R or D no matter what. There is no staunch D voter that's going to switch to Trump/DeSantis/whomever because of Afghanistan. For the last 20%, it's going to be how things are come election day (i.e. the economy). Nothing else truly matters.

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masterplum
08/17/21 3:58:58 PM
#297:


Peace___Frog posted...
I don't want us to assume that every covid death is from an anti-vaxxer lib-hater. There's going to be lower class folks who can't find the time, or public transit to, a vaccine appointment are included in those deaths.

About 3 weeks ago I was on the interstate and pulled off at a random Walmart in Georgia to pick up something.

The first thing I noticed is it was 98% black. I may have been the only white person in the store

The second thing I noticed was it was 98% masked and I was the only person not wearing one because I was vaccinated.

Anecdotal evidence, but I think the vast majority of deaths from here on out are going to be brazen anti mask anti vaccines.

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HashtagSEP
08/17/21 4:14:26 PM
#298:


While it's true that vaxx rates among minorities are lower, minorities mostly fall into the "wait and see" column, as opposed to the "definitely not" column, which is a vast majority white republicans. The former is shrinking more and more as times goes on, while the latter has held very steady.

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Corrik7
08/17/21 4:57:41 PM
#299:


Jakyl25 posted...
Current betting market odds for the GOP nomination, top 10



Trump is honestly one of the better options here
Let's go Haley!

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Mr Lasastryke
08/17/21 5:09:01 PM
#300:


Corrik7 posted...
Let's go Haley!

lol

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kevwaffles
08/17/21 5:11:50 PM
#301:


I wonder if anyone will ever get elected with the simp vote.
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