Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 377: Nonconsent of the Governed

(+) Yeah! (+)

Heroic_TuRtLe posted...

Handwaving Trump as just "outwardly racist" really minimizes a lot of the real issues that affect areas with high levels of illegal immigration. Again, I am all in favour of immigration, my grandparents being immigrants themselves, but when you have people jumping the border, the people that are most affected are the people that are following the proper immigration process, paying taxes and improving society. The next most affected are the people living in those areas that have to deal with all the problems unrestricted immigration causes.

Should families be jailed and deported en masse? No, but the rules around immigration need to be tightened, and illegal immigrants that are currently in the US should be vetted and forced to go through the proper channels, and only deported if they are actively committing crimes.

The worst offender of illegal immigration is those who overstay their visas

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masterplum posted...

they thought he was an admirable businessman

This requires just as much, if not more, self delusion.

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isn't BT Canadian

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Heroic_TuRtLe posted...

the real issues that affect areas with high levels of illegal immigration

Heroic_TuRtLe posted...

The next most affected are the people living in those areas that have to deal with all the problems unrestricted immigration causes.

Please, by all means, elaborate. Be as detailed as possible.

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Heroic_TuRtLe posted...

go through the proper channels

Ah, so when a xenophobic wannabe-despot assumes power we should just accept a system where people who are using the "proper channels" have been waiting decades to get in. The "proper channels" get referenced as though they exist when for some time now they effectively haven't. You can't tell someone to just stand in line like everyone else when for many people the line doesn't exist. Or if you are going to hold that position you should simultaneously be outraged by the lack of a functioning line and be willing to forgive illegal immigration until such time that legal immigration becomes a realistic thing.

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The fact that Trump is a con artist IS the appeal behind his business experience. Being able to scam people out of money, and to get away without paying vendors/taxes is considered admirable to a large swath of the population.

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masterplum posted...

This. Nobody actually thought he was not a rich person, they thought he was an admirable businessman

Most conservatives I knew, before Trump secured the nomination, thought he was a detestable con-artist who had no idea how to run a business. As soon as he won the nomination, though, they turned around real quick.

So a guy drove a truck up to the Library of Congress and claimed to have a bomb. He's since surrendered but he livestreamed during the standoff because "of course." And naturally claimed it "wasn't political" but that Biden was not legitimately elected, Democratic Senators should resign, and Democrats are "killing America."

And already we have a GOP House Rep (Brooks) who released a statement on it saying he "understands" citizen anger towards "dictatorial Socialism" and other not even subtle winks and nods.

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xp1337 posted...

And already we have a GOP House Rep (Brooks) who released a statement on it saying he "understands" citizen anger towards "dictatorial Socialism" and other not even subtle winks and nods.

--Is the terrorist dark skinned?
-->They're clearly a part of a bigger terrorist organization who's only goal is to destroy our way of life. They have no real issues with America, only imagined ones.
--Is the terrorist white?
--> They're clearly misunderstood/lone wolf/someone who is understandably upset at all the socialism. They don't want the free healthcare and free schools we don't currently have, but are afraid we might get them one day and I'm mad at that too.

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masterplum posted...

This. Nobody actually thought he was not a rich person, they thought he was an admirable businessman

That's not true either, they thought he was the unscrupulous billionaire who would use his cheater tactics to finally beat the politicians, as "enemy of my enemy".

It's an extremely small leap from that to "I love Trump and I wish he would impregnate my daughter", and the campaign knew that.

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Heroic_TuRtLe posted...

Handwaving Trump as just "outwardly racist" really minimizes a lot

Your post minimizes everything in Trump's platform, rhetoric, and actions. That's his real secret sauce. That centrists can look at "immigrants are criminals who need to be deported or killed by vigilantes" and turn it into a nice palatable "let's be inclusive of illegal immigrants, just not the criminals :^)"

Or treat $120 bil in wasted infrastructure money on the wall into "well we had to do something!!" (which is completely irrelevant to the 90% illegal immigrants from airplanes and visas)

Like even if Trump or his followers agreed with the slightest bit of the ideas you mentioned (they repeatedly, violently reject it), how would make up for Trump's racism?

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https://twitter.com/richardengel/status/1428778271941054470?s=21

https://twitter.com/hav3re/status/1428798579343249417?s=21

Reminder that American media is vile and directly contributes polarization in our country.

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https://twitter.com/gelliotmorris/status/1428835427520241664

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/08/20/so-far-ending-pandemic-unemployment-aid-has-not-yielded-extra-jobs

To the surprise of no one, an analysis of BLS and Census data shows that in the GOP states that ended pandemic unemployment benefits (because they claimed it was disincentivizing jobs) there was no increase in employment numbers compared against those states that continued them (in fact states that have continued unemployment benefits saw stronger job gains than the ones who ended it early).

What there was was an increase in people reporting financial hardship.

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xp1337 posted...

https://twitter.com/gelliotmorris/status/1428835427520241664

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/08/20/so-far-ending-pandemic-unemployment-aid-has-not-yielded-extra-jobs

To the surprise of no one, an analysis of BLS and Census data shows that in the GOP states that ended pandemic unemployment benefits (because they claimed it was disincentivizing jobs) there was no increase in employment numbers compared against those states that continued them (in fact states that have continued unemployment benefits saw stronger job gains than the ones who ended it early).

What there was was an increase in people reporting financial hardship.

Gasp etc.

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https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/20/full-approval-for-pfizer-covid-vaccine-could-come-from-fda-monday-report-says.html

About fucking time

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xp1337 posted...

What there was was an increase in people reporting financial hardship.

Well why don't they just get jobs? It's so easy! And don't point out the actual reasons, I just want to feel superior to the poor (who really shouldn't even count as human).
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LordoftheMorons posted...

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/20/full-approval-for-pfizer-covid-vaccine-could-come-from-fda-monday-report-says.html

About fucking time

I have friends who claim that theyre going to get vaccinated when the FDA approves the vaccine. Cant wait to hear what their excuses will be on Tuesday.

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RaidenGarai posted...

I have friends who claim that theyre going to get vaccinated when the FDA approves the vaccine. Cant wait to hear what their excuses will be on Tuesday.

"I want to see what the long term effects will be first"

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Corrik7 posted...

"I want to see what the long term effects will be first"

This, and FDA approval was rushed so it doesnt count. Definitely expecting both of those.

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RaidenGarai posted...

I have friends who claim that theyre going to get vaccinated when the FDA approves the vaccine. Cant wait to hear what their excuses will be on Tuesday.

Lol I literally just baited this and found out instantly on Facebook:



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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

https://twitter.com/richardengel/status/1428778271941054470?s=21

https://twitter.com/hav3re/status/1428798579343249417?s=21

Reminder that American media is vile and directly contributes polarization in our country.

Wow these dudes want war so bad

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I don't understand why poor people can't just be shrunk down to fight a war against Covid. Then everyone wins.
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https://twitter.com/crampell/status/1428869681679683589?s=21

jfc

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foolm0r0n posted...

Your post minimizes everything in Trump's platform, rhetoric, and actions. That's his real secret sauce. That centrists can look at "immigrants are criminals who need to be deported or killed by vigilantes" and turn it into a nice palatable "let's be inclusive of illegal immigrants, just not the criminals :^)"

Or treat $120 bil in wasted infrastructure money on the wall into "well we had to do something!!" (which is completely irrelevant to the 90% illegal immigrants from airplanes and visas)

Like even if Trump or his followers agreed with the slightest bit of the ideas you mentioned (they repeatedly, violently reject it), how would make up for Trump's racism?

Not once did I stand up for the complete fucktastrophe that was "the wall". I'm just pointing out that the apparant "leftist" stance of "we should let in everyone that wants to be here with absolutely no checks and balances and FUCK the law of the land" is just as nonsensical a position as "build a wall!"

Heroic_TuRtLe posted...

Not once did I stand up for the complete fucktastrophe that was "the wall". I'm just pointing out that the apparant "leftist" stance of "we should let in everyone that wants to be here with absolutely no checks and balances and FUCK the law of the land" is just as nonsensical a position as "build a wall!"

Who said there shouldn't be checks and balances? I've never seen ANYONE advocate for that. Ever. Like that's a strawman you've built. The problem is that our current checks and balances are incredibly biased. To the point we're allowing 3 year olds to represent themselves in court.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Lol I literally just baited this and found out instantly on Facebook:

This is another gem! I'm guessing I'll hear this one too. I've already heard the antivax equivalent of my body my choice, so I can cross that one off the Idiot BINGO card.

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Heroic_TuRtLe posted...

Not once did I stand up for the complete fucktastrophe that was "the wall".

You did, by quoting a post critical of Trump's anti-immigration policies, of which the wall is the premier policy.

If you don't disagree that Trump's anti-immigration was racist, then don't quote and argue against a post saying that.

I just don't get it. Why not just post the exact same thing but without defending Trump racism? People ITT love centrism so it would be great.


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Dancedreamer posted...

Who said there shouldn't be checks and balances? I've never seen ANYONE advocate for that.

Me. It's not too hard to find people who are for open borders. That said, this is definitely hyperbole, open borders still use property rights. In fact it REQUIRES way stronger property rights than centralized war-based borders.

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foolm0r0n posted...

Me. It's not too hard to find people who are for open borders. That said, this is definitely hyperbole, open borders still use property rights. In fact it REQUIRES way stronger property rights than centralized war-based borders.

Open Borders doesn't mean no checks and balances, though. (At least as I presume he means it. Checks and Balances doesn't really fit as a term here)

If anything open borders makes checks easier because you aren't taking the people with useful intel and turning them into a shadow class that fears immigration more than the criminals do.

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CA Court rules Prop 22 is unconstitutional.

https://twitter.com/JeongPark52/status/1428876730681286661

Prop 22 was the CA proposition that defined app-based/gig workers as independent contractors rather than employees and the benefits that would confer to them and the obligations on the companies like Uber, etc. It had passed back in 2020 but this court has ruled it unconstitutional because it also included a clause that required 7/8's in both chambers of the state legislature to amend it in any way. Said clause was ruled to unconstitutionally limit the power of future legislatures to exert their authority in defining said workers.

Uber, Lyft, etc. saying they'll appeal the ruling.

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You love to see it.

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xp1337 posted...

CA Court rules Prop 22 is unconstitutional.

https://twitter.com/JeongPark52/status/1428876730681286661

Prop 22 was the CA proposition that defined app-based/gig workers as independent contractors rather than employees and the benefits that would confer to them and the obligations on the companies like Uber, etc. It had passed back in 2020 but this court has ruled it unconstitutional because it also included a clause that required 7/8's in both chambers of the state legislature to amend it in any way. Said clause was ruled to unconstitutionally limit the power of future legislatures to exert their authority in defining said workers.

Uber, Lyft, etc. saying they'll appeal the ruling.

haha get fucked uber

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Lot of fake twitter accounts in that thread.

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I feel like the biggest problem with Trump was not racism or sexism, it was more just not having any clue what he was doing. At least Bush did even if I don't agree with what he did.

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LinkMarioSamus posted...

I feel like the biggest problem with Trump was not racism or sexism, it was more just not having any clue what he was doing. At least Bush did even if I don't agree with what he did.

Not having any clue what he was doing was literally the single best quality of Trump's. Imagine the damage he could have done had he been an actual competent, charismatic politician. (Or even just a normal human being.)

Terrifying. We actually really lucked out that he was as much of a brain-dead laughingstock as he was.

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xp1337 posted...

CA Court rules Prop 22 is unconstitutional.

https://twitter.com/JeongPark52/status/1428876730681286661

Prop 22 was the CA proposition that defined app-based/gig workers as independent contractors rather than employees and the benefits that would confer to them and the obligations on the companies like Uber, etc. It had passed back in 2020 but this court has ruled it unconstitutional because it also included a clause that required 7/8's in both chambers of the state legislature to amend it in any way. Said clause was ruled to unconstitutionally limit the power of future legislatures to exert their authority in defining said workers.

Uber, Lyft, etc. saying they'll appeal the ruling.

This doesnt make much sense; this provision actually gave the legislature more power, since they normally cant effectively overturn a ballot measure at all without returning the question to the voters. In any case, I dont see why the provision wouldnt be severable.

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Kenri posted...

Not having any clue what he was doing was literally the single best quality of Trump's. Imagine the damage he could have done had he been an actual competent, charismatic politician. (Or even just a normal human being.)

Terrifying. We actually really lucked out that he was as much of a brain-dead laughingstock as he was.

Yes, which means the REAL problem is the next "Trump" who uses his playbook with competence.

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red13n posted...

Lot of fake twitter accounts in that thread.

That's more the rule than the exception. At least for anything we link here.
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LordoftheMorons posted...

This doesnt make much sense; this provision actually gave the legislature more power, since they normally cant effectively overturn a ballot measure at all without returning the question to the voters. In any case, I dont see why the provision wouldnt be severable.

Section 7451 was found unconstitutional and that is the portion that defines rideshare workers as independent contractors.

Okay no, that's not what I meant. The biggest problem with the Trump administration is that he had no goal beyond pleasing the masses, leading to nothing in the way of real direction. It made me retroactively appreciate Bush's presidency because even if I disagreed with his direction for the country, he at least HAD a direction.

The dumb thing is, I realized that after watching Iron Man.

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LinkMarioSamus posted...

Okay no, that's not what I meant. The biggest problem with the Trump administration is that he had no goal beyond pleasing the masses, leading to nothing in the way of real direction. It made me retroactively appreciate Bush's presidency because even if I disagreed with his direction for the country, he at least HAD a direction.

The dumb thing is, I realized that after watching Iron Man.

Trump's goal was more like "upset the masses" than please them. Or to be more specific, "own the libs", where libs = ~65% of America.

Bush's direction was a more generic "redirect billions of dollars to large corporations through endless war" i.e. neoconservatism. Hard to say which is worse.

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Kenri posted...

Trump's goal was more like "upset the masses" than please them. Or to be more specific, "own the libs", where libs = ~65% of America.

Bush's direction was a more generic "redirect billions of dollars to large corporations through endless war" i.e. neoconservatism. Hard to say which is worse.

Trump did this too in terms of spending and actions (drone strikes) and his admin was trying to start a war with Iran. So he still takes it maybe, unless you award Bush his bonus points for doing it first.

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Evidently I don't follow politics closely enough. I just saw Trump doing a lot of stupid crap and was baffled as to what his goal through the whole thing was. The only thing I can remotely conclude was he was just thinking about winning the next election. And my god did conservatives let their 2016 election victory get to their heads.

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Trump's goal was to funnel money out of the government and into his family's pockets. Everything else was secondary.

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LinkMarioSamus posted...

Evidently I don't follow politics closely enough

couldn't tell

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FFDragon posted...

Trump's goal was to funnel money out of the government and into his family's pockets. Everything else was secondary.

This is pretty the mindset for every action taken, yeah

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That's not true. Sometimes he cut out the middleman to fleece his supporters directly!
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Polling in VA governor's race showing a close race:
https://wtop.com/local-politics-elections-news/2021/08/vcu-poll-candidates-in-va-governors-race-in-virtual-dead-heat-among-decided-voters/

This race tends to be a canary in the coal mine for the nation as it's one of, if not the only, "off-year" election.

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Trump may have finally found the line his cult won't follow him over.

He said he took the vaccine and they should too and there was silence followed by some smattering of boos. (Prompting him to immediately go into some word vomit about "but you have your freedoms")

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If only Trump cared about somebody other than himself.

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LinkMarioSamus posted...

It made me retroactively appreciate Bush's presidency because even if I disagreed with his direction for the country, he at least HAD a direction.

adolf had a direction too. "having a direction" isn't necessarily preferable for a political leader.

i've said it before but one of the most annoying effects of trump's presidency is all the people going "trump made me realize W wasn't so bad after all!" trump and bush were both atrocious, just in different ways.

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