Board 8 > The Great Ace Attorney Chronicles Review Zone

(+) Yeah! (+)

we all wear masks

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Playing I2 and I'm reminded how some of the evidence presenting in this series is super frustrating.

Some times something in logic is so obvious you don't even think to do it.

And now this thing here where I have the piece of evidence I need to present, but I still have to say I don't have it, because the evidence to present just shows where the other evidence is. It's an attempt at being cheeky, but every other AA game would have you say "I have evidence to present".

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The Takumi games and the non-Takumi games approach testimonies and evidence differently. You just have to be aware of it depending on which one you're playing.

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I2 has some big issues as far as how it handles its evidence/hints/testimonies, having just played through it a month ago.

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I2

This Debeste guy is like trying to argue with Corrik.

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Regarding G2-2, I think I have a theory on what happened there.

Someone mentioned that they could not figure out why G1-4 and G2-2 were split into 2 different cases. I was gnawing on that for a while and I think it was actually 1 entire case and was meant to be the 4th case in GAA1. Day 1 was supposed to go on as normal with Soseki being declared innocent. Day 2 starts off with Shamspeare's murder, Soseki getting put into jail again, and ending with Green coming back.

I think the big issue here is pacing. G2-2 is a 2 day case, so if you combine that with G1-4, you get a 3 day case, something not seen since PW1. I think they had too many ideas with G2-2 (i.e. Shamspeare's murder) and just decided to make it its own case. But it couldn't be the finale Case 5 of GAA1 because...uh...it doesn't have any gravitas for a final case. And it couldn't be Case 1 of GAA2 because it doesn't really feel like a Case 1 and loses some classic Case 1 archetypes (prosecutor Payne, trial-only segment, etc.)

So there you have it. Due to pacing issues, G1-4 was meant to be 1 case. It had too many ideas for its own good, so it split into 2 cases and the second case literally could not be done until G2-2.

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I wish I could read more of what is going on but I'm afraid of spoiling GAA2. Just finished GAA1 though and I have thoughts.

That was...really disappointing, honestly. Part of the issue was definitely inflated expectations. I saw all those glowing reviews and my hype got out of control. I actually went out and bought this on launch and I can't remember the last time I got a game on launch day.

There are just a lot of issues here. Part of it is the "game" part of this is...bad? I don't remember the AA games being bad games with good stories/characters, but I feel like that is the case here. Like this is the worst gameplay out of any AA game I've played (I stopped after AJ and AAI, but even those were leagues above this in my memory). It has been like a decade or so since I played my last AA game, but I remember the games themselves being quite fun. Like I would get stuck and need to think or some revelation would catch me offguard. It could be I'm more use to the gameplay but honestly I feel like this one was just really sloppily designed in comparison to the old ones.

For example, the multiple witness thing sounds cool but it is terrible in execution. AAI does something similar much better where you're looking for tells and it is this fun little mini-game that actually adds a bit to the court segments. Here, someone will say something, a giant exclamation mark will pop up and a different character will go "I AM MAKING A SCENE COUGH COUGH HEY OVER HERE DUDE COUGH COUGH". I don't know what the point even is from a gameplay perspective. It makes things worse. I think there is one example in the entire game where this pursue tactic doesn't immediately lead to the thing you need to counter, so it makes the gameplay more mindless than anything. You get to a testimony, the obvious pursue mechanic pops up, and then it leads to an obvious statement you have to counter.

I really like the idea behind the Sherlock mechanics, but I don't think they quite worked it into gamepaly well. I was having more fun picking wrong answers just to see what weird things Ryunosuke would say, but in terms of challenge there is none. You look around a small area at like 3-4 different things, and there wasn't one that I was ever really stuck at. And beyond this the game is easy in general, and I don't think I ever struggled to figure out what I needed to present when except for literally the final thing in the entire game. Even that wasn't that hard, but it was the first time in the game I had to think and not just immediately know the answer.

I think it was saved a little bit by the characters (who I really liked) and parts of the story (which I sort of liked) but even that wasn't great. Some cases drag on waaaaaay too long which I admit is an issue in the older games as well but it felt really bad here. In case 4 like the last third of the case is dedicated to figuring out the knife was thrown out the window which was a really fun revelation but I figured that out as soon as the Sherlock deduction extravaganza concluded. And then case 5 just wouldn't end. This was my least favorite conclusion outside of AJ from the games I played and I found myself just wishing the thing would end after it went of on like the eighth tangent I just didn't care about.

There were other things about some of the cases too that bugged me. Case 1 also dragged on towards the end. Case 2 felt small. Case 3 didn't really have a resolution (even though the end of the case was really gripping and I wanted to play case 4 immediately). Case 4 was a good filler case but did have that issue with the ending. Case 5 had some fun stuff but also some parts that I didn't care all that much about and it took a long time to get where it was going. Some parts of the story also seemed overly contrived for the sake of the mystery. For example, in Case 5 Susato making that hole in the wall and then being overly dramatic in telling us about it seems to be less in there for actual character development reasons and more in there to make the mystery more mysterious and not immediately obvious. Same thing with Gina not telling us her side of the story. I felt like this was a case that could've been resolved in like two minutes if it wasn't for the game trying to think of ways to hide information from us.

So...I dunno. I think it kinda killed my motivation to play through GAA2 right away now which was my original plan but I think I'd rather find something else for a little bit and come back to this. It wasn't a bad game and I don't regret playing it. Some of the characters were great and I liked Sholmes a lot. But I also think this was the most disappointed I've been in a game for quite some time.

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GAA2 fixes a lot of those issues

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I am with you on basically all points except I was even harsher on GAA1, so I will say this: GAA2 is absolutely stupendous and basically everything is fixed. The games are absolutely night and day in terms of quality. I would strongly advise going straight into GAA2, and ainsay that having made it super clear that, had these been a package deal, there's basically no chance I would have bought GAA2 in the first place after having beaten the first one.

These games being reviewed as one product because of the package release REALLY causes some confusing expectations.

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Oh interesting! I just sort of assumed GAA2 would be roughly the same thing but resolving some of the lingering story threads. Maybe Ill jump right into that then. I couldnt play another GAA1 right now but I could definitely go for a good AA game! That was the entire reason I was excited about the package.

Thanks for the heads up! Wish I knew that going into it but I was trying to avoid actual coverage (outside of the scores) for fear of spoilers.

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It's wierd because it's more like 1 long game than 2 games, and GAA1 is basically just the first half of an AA game in terms of stakes, but given the structure and narrative gravitas of a normal AA narrative. It results in a confusingly dull first product.

Meanwhile, almost all of GAA2 is like the bomb drops and payoffs of the latter half of an AA game, so it's almost cheating because other than one normal case it's basically all either super tied to the core plot and narrative or delivering on threads.

As such it's almost like you HAVE to play them back to back to really appreciate it.

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GA2 definitely makes the first one better in context, but I also think GA1 is good on its own. I agree that the multiple witness/jury stuff isn't that great, and the deductions (particularly in GA1) are so "elementary" the point of wondering "why bother." That being said, the game still deserves good marks for its overall story.

By story, I don't mean the mysteries themselves, because there are certainly some issues there, but in terms of how the game develops the four main characters - Ryunoske, Susato, Sholmes, and Iris, I was honestly shocked at how good a job it did. I think the game handles romance/romantic potential better than any prior AA game. I think Magnus McGilded is a really fascinating character, and the game makes some really intriguing decisions if you think of him as the game's overarching villain. I really enjoy Gina, Gregson and Natsume as supporting characters (that last one is for sure debatable). People are right to say GA2 is better in every way, but there's a lot to like, I think.

Anyway, that's my pitch for why GA1 is okay/mid-tier Ace Attorney.

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Playing GAA2 made GAA1 seem a little better in retrospect, although I would still consider GAA1 a fairly low tier game

whereas GAA2 is a high tier game

Soseki Natsume is a high tier character for sure in my book

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I finished GAA1 so quickly, it was great, I couldnt put it down. On its own, still would maybe consider it the worst AA game.

GAA2 is definitely up there, maybe top 5 for me.

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About halfway through the last case of I2 I think.

Boy do I ever still just hate Lotta Hart.

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it's a long, long case

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OK that was kind of a total mess of a final case but in a good way. I2 as a whole has got to be the most interwoven narrative from start to finish for any single game in the franchise.

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AAI2's overarching narrative is pretty great, yeah. E2-3 was the story I always wanted the franchise to tell, and I'm glad they got to tell it.

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The first cross examination of GAA2 final case... what the fuck

I was totally stomped. I really don't understand how they expect people to remember the name of the ship? it's not being mentioned in the Court Record, it was never seemed to be important..they just expected you to examine every single piece of evidence again? A little hint could have been nice

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Yeah I think everyone I've seen so far has issues with that one

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I didn't struggle with it that much

I wonder if reading Sherlock Holmes stories would spoil things in those two games
Like, for example, G2-3 spoiler-
The fact that Gina made it as a "Inspector Lestrade" which I found out there is a main character named like this in the Sherlock Holmes stories. Of course it's not a major spoiler..but still

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Lestrade is a fairly well known character from the stories. Probably the most well known after Holmes and Watson. Most of the Holmes characters referenced in the games play different roles than they did in the stories anyway.

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As someone who doesn't really know Sherlock Holmes, I think the the most famous Sherlock Holmes characters after Holmes and Watson are Moriarty and Irene Adler

Oh right, Moriarty, who became more famous because of adaptations than his actual roles in the stories, but you're probably right. I think I'd argue Lestrade is more well known than Irene Adler, but that's a fairly clear top 5.

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Final case minor nitpick-
I remember in previous games, in epic cases, old and unrelated evidence were cleaned out.
But in the last case I have 4 pages of evidence and it's...ugh
It's also making "presenting every piece of evidence to every person" painful
I will be very surprised if I will ever need to use the "Photograph of Mr Vigil" ever again, for example

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Nanis23 posted...

Final case minor nitpick-
I remember in previous games, in epic cases, old and unrelated evidence were cleaned out.
But in the last case I have 4 pages of evidence and it's...ugh
It's also making "presenting every piece of evidence to every person" painful
I will be very surprised if I will ever need to use the "Photograph of Mr Vigil" ever again, for example

JFA's final case had an absolutely massive amount of evidence in addition to profiles you can present with a lot of the answers being very vague (for example, presenting Franziska on how to contact Gumshoe because you needed to remember she had a tracker on him and presenting the suicide note as to why Adrian couldn't have received the bear because she'd have gotten rid of it if she did
Definitely the toughest imo.
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Question related to the end of GAA2-5
Is a message hidden in the tilt of the sword a new thing or did it happen before in the series? because I tried examining it before I got the hint about it, and it sort of felt like de ja vu from a previous case in the series but I don't remember which

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Nanis23 posted...

Question related to the end of GAA2-5
Is a message hidden in the tilt of the sword a new thing or did it happen before in the series? because I tried examining it before I got the hint about it, and it sort of felt like de ja vu from a previous case in the series but I don't remember which

I think stuff hidden in things isn't a new trope. One off the top of my head is 5-5 spoilers: a lighter secretly hiding a pistol when you take off the top.. Or in GAA2-4 itself turning Gregson's cop figure's head to reveal the key to his pocketwatch
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GiftedACIII posted...

I think stuff hidden in things isn't a new trope. One off the top of my head is 5-5 spoilers: a lighter secretly hiding a pistol when you take off the top.. Or in GAA2-4 itself turning Gregson's cop figure's head to reveal the key to his pocketwatch

I meant specifically the hilt of the sword
I am pretty sure I have seen it before. Either in the Ace Attorney series or another visual novel

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The AAI games would do the "hidden thing in the evidence" trick (1-5 as well), but not to the extent GAA does.

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Another endgame question, now that I think about it
Maria having a different family name than her mother was never explained. They just said it was because of..reasons. And that's it
Is it a reference to a character from Sherlock Holmes or something?

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I don't think so, because they changed her name from Goulloyne to Gorey in the localization. Though it does imply that Mr. Sithe wasn't Courtney's first husband.

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Can't stop thinking about this game. At this point it is far and away the GOTY as far as I'm concerned, technicalities of it being 5+ years old be damned.

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The year has not been particularly strong, not to downplay GAA. It's gonna be between this, Arise, and almost certainly Endwalker.

It's gonna be funky if I have to consider 1 and 2 as a single contender, because GAA1 is the worst game I've played this year (which has not been a ton, to be fair).

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anyone who's complaining about the difficulty of the cases is being stubborn and not even trying out story mode which would have taken away a lot of the frustration

ace attorney is already pretty much a visual novel and there is just not a lot of joy in figuring out which of 6 similar evidence best fits the question being asked

that's the hill I'm gonna die on

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If you're going to use story mode you might as well just watch an LP because there's no discernible difference

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There's an enormous difference between playing a VN with no choices yourself and watching an LP.
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If I had been watching an LP of Umineko I would not have had the experience of literally being unable to progress some of the text boxes in episode 8 for 15-20 minutes because of how hard I was crying, lol.

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There's a pause button on LPs for that too

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It still doesn't feel the same, and the pacing is always off.
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Yeah it's just not even close to the same experience.

Imagine watching on YouTube and there's some kind of huge story revalation or emotional moment and then 1/2 of the screen gets covered up by "Cr1tikal reacting to a new Karen meltdown"

If you want to play a game, buy it. Unless you straight up can't actually get the game (I2)

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That's why you watch on wide-screen mode with AdBlocker so those things don't show up

I've bought pretty much anything and everything the series has put out since the AAI2 fiasco because I want to support the series. I watched both seasons of the anime to support the franchise.

But I also don't mind getting "stuck" on a finicky testimony. I won't get stuck for more than a handful of minutes at best (especially in GAA when you can save literally at any time and reloading a save when you bottom out on retries takes seconds), so I don't understand just defaulting to story mode anyway.

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Nobody said you should default to story mode.
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I'm confused as to why it even came up, one of GAA1's issues is how mind numbingly easy it is and how it treats you like an idiot. I did not feel like GAA2 was particularly hard other than a small handful of presents.

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Mac Arrowny posted...

Nobody said you should default to story mode.

I mean defaulting to just switching on story mode as opposed to trying to figure it out

heck even brute forcing your way through it won't take that long

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I can give examples because I used Story Mode in just a few cases.

G2-3 The final testimony with Sithe and Drebber where the contradiction is about the blood wound and the stab. I'm glad I turned it on there because I don't think I would have ever gotten it. I already game overed once with all 5 penalties and I actually thought the contradiction was on Drebber rather than Sithe.

G2-5 Several instances in the final day especially when switching back and forth to the various murders in the past. Like I said, I have no interest in figuring out which of 5-7 relevant pieces of evidence best fits the question and I was already kinda stressed for time and just wanted to close the case out. Again, I only turned on Story Mode after getting a game over.

While I didn't turn it on for it, the first testimony of G2-5 is another solid example of turning on Story Mode because the contradiction is so minor and is not even satisfying to find. And I'm really only advocating the use of Story Mode when you're getting frustrated and to really use it as an anti-frustration feature first-and-foremost.

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Story mode is fine, I don't think anyone is saying otherwise. It's preferable to "hints" in my book, which only serve to make me feel like a big ignoramus.

That being said I didn't use it in my playthrough or look up any answers because I'm an alpha gamer

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LeonhartFour posted...

I mean defaulting to just switching on story mode as opposed to trying to figure it out

heck even brute forcing your way through it won't take that long

Why are you so concerned with how other people play games though? Everyone has different ways of enjoying things.
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