Board 8 > The Great Ace Attorney Chronicles Review Zone

(+) Yeah! (+)

I feel like 5-4 is one of the more underappreciated cases in the series at this point.

Not that it's necessarily a top tier case, but it's still quite good.

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colliding posted...

I feel like the game going out of its way to show you wagahai going through the cat door on no fewer than 2 occasions is enough of a "plant" to make it not feel like a "total" asspull. It's obviously completely absurd on multiple levels, but I guess I just don't care? Like to me this is not all that different than and even preferable to somebody showing up with a book on "evidence law" at the very last minute and objecting on those grounds

I actually don't think it being an asspull is that big a deal. Yeah it's one of the worst ones they've had in that regard but it is indeed set up...one of which causes a problem. The Evidence Law book is closer to what's his face in G1-4 giving you his policeman's manual.

My issue is that it's an inconsistent nightmare. It can suddenly make a handle on a door for no discernable reason, because the narrative needs it to because if it didn't then it would be too obvious. Never justified. It makes no noise even though it's literally chopping and sucking up thick wood. Never justified. If this was some mid trial goof then whatever, but this is the final piece of evidence, and the thing that caused extreme emotional turmoil for our assistent causing her to consider giving up law. If it's this damn important then it needs to actually make SENSE, and not something Takumi came up with then had to retrofit into the rest of the case somehow like it would obviously appear he did. There's only so far I can suspend my disbelief before it starts to damage the narrative for me, and I think bringing an Orca into the courtroom is honestly less nonsense than this device.

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LeonhartFour posted...

I feel like 5-4 is one of the more underappreciated cases in the series at this point.

Not that it's necessarily a top tier case, but it's still quite good.

I actually think that 5-4 works surprisingly well on its own. It's basically the Yuri Cosmo show, but I can't complain, because I think he's one of the funniest witnesses in the series but nobody ever talks about him.

5-1, though, is just temporally a mess. You know it's in media res but it's so confusing that it's hard to understand what's at stake and it feels like the whole point was to confuse the player but not in a good way.

Yeah, 5-4 is a good case with a non-traditional ending, which I think is part of the reason people have a hard time grading it on its own. It's basically the only case where the culprit isn't revealed at the end. I've never had an issue with taking it as a whole without factoring in the other cases it's clearly connected to, but that's just me.


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G2-4 blending into G2-5 just feels like how 6-5 should have been handled. Nobody with a brain would have thrown a fit if SoJ had 6 cases on paper.


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Paratroopa1 posted...

It's basically the Yuri Cosmo show, but I can't complain, because I think he's one of the funniest witnesses in the series but nobody ever talks about him.

Top 10 breakdown!

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

G2-4 blending into G2-5 just feels like how 6-5 should have been handled. Nobody with a brain would have thrown a fit if SoJ had 6 cases on paper.

SoJ does have 6 cases!

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colliding posted...

the outrage over handlegate is what caused them to not have anime cutscenes in GA2 obviously

Unironically will consider this canon.


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Mac Arrowny posted...

But you don't have a problem with GAA2-4 (along with other GAA cases) not feeling like their own cases...?

yeah I'm probably being a bit too harsh on 5-4.

As for GAA2-4; you're right, that does seem hypocritical. I think I would have preferred if GA2-4 ended with getting seishiro declared guilty while GA2-5 begins with the Sholmes dinner scene, with the next trial day devoted to revisiting the professor case. I'm not quite sure why they didn't do it that way but eh. Because I actually do think that GA2-5 eventually begins to feel like it's own case... it just takes a while to get there.

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LeonhartFour posted...

SoJ does have 6 cases!

Man I mean vanilla and you know it!

Boy 6-6 sure is a forgettable case though, huh? 5-6 easily takes the cake there. Plus major spite towards 6-6 for shading Athena, which most of that game does which is the main reason I don't have it in second place. Give me my Athena Cykes game!

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If 5-6 and 6-6 had swapped games AA6 would be my favorite AA game EASILY, that would have pushed it over the edge

but man 6-6 is just so bad

GAA2 spoilers G2-3 destroys it in every way with its whole 'steampunk science that didn't actually happen with a kooky steampunk villain' premise

I mean, it doesn't have 6 cases proper because there was always going to be a DLC case.

and technically SoJ has 8 separate cases since 6-3 and 6-5's second days are different charges than the first

I don't have a problem with 6-5 being one giant case because it's essentially dealing with the same thing.

I don't mind 6-6 as much as some people because I can just enjoy the sheer nostalgic value of it, even if the actual case itself is nothing special.

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I actually can't speak to its quality because I straight up can't remember a damn thing other than it being the nostalgia for Maya case.

Which...I honestly always liked both Trucy and Athena especially more than Maya, not gonna lie. And I don't like Pearl. Really shows how damn good 3-5 is that that's still one of the GoaTs for me, lol.

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I'm still in the middle of GAA2 (just finished G2-4 day 1), so I don't want to touch this too much, but I feel very confident in this game ranking:

3 = G2 > 1 > 6 > E2 > Layton > 2 > 5 > G1 > 4 > E1

AA is my favorite game series and, honestly, more like my favorite entertainment media. PW3 is incredible, but GAA2 just feels on another level, especially now that I'm much older and have had more experience trying out different story-based games like Danganronpa, Zero Escape, Undertale, etc. One of the things I really love about Ace Attorney is that it has so much heart and sophistication behind the writing. This is very obvious with the Original Trilogy. It's something that other VNs get every now and then but AA has such a consistent level of quality that it astounds me. Out of 55 cases, I think I only really dislike a handful of them. That's insane.

One thing that really bothers me about DD is the writing feels really sloppy. 5-3 and 5-5 spoilers. This is most obvious with the "dark age of the law." I really can't stand it. It's so vague, but also so central to the main finale of the game that it drives me crazy. It reminds me so much of Danganronpa's Most Terrible Despair-Inducing Awful Event in the World or some shit. How am I expected to take it seriously and with the gravitas the plot demands when it doesn't even seem to take itself seriously? The Phantom is the weakest "main villain" in every game by a mile and defeating him feels so hollow. It's why DD ranks so low even though I generally like every single case in DD except 5-1. It's so interesting, because SOJ has the exact opposite problem: only 2 real stand-out cases but much better writing and story all around.

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I do consider 6-5 to be two separate cases but calling 6-3 two separate cases is a huge stretch imo

SSBM_Guy posted...

3 = G2 > 1 > 6 > E2 > Layton > 2 > 5 > G1 > 4 > E1

this is amazingly close to my ranking aside from me having 2 higher lol

SSBM_Guy posted...

One of the things I really love about Ace Attorney is that it has so much heart and sophistication behind the writing. This is very obvious with the Original Trilogy.

I said this in transience's topic, but Takumi's specialty has always been character writing. PW1 at its core is a very simple story about Phoenix and Edgeworth, but it works because Takumi manages to endear you completely to both of them by the end.

His scenario writing has become a little hit or miss since the OT, but he hasn't lost his touch with character writing at all.

Paratroopa1 posted...

I do consider 6-5 to be two separate cases but calling 6-3 two separate cases is a huge stretch imo

Oh, I don't consider 6-3 to be two separate cases, but they technically are since the first trial is about Tahrust's death and the second is about Rheel Nehmu's death.

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I should probably figure out how to give AAvPL another try one day, but unfortunately it's still stuck on original hardware. I imagine it being a crossover is the cause.

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

Man I mean vanilla and you know it!

Boy 6-6 sure is a forgettable case though, huh? 5-6 easily takes the cake there. Plus major spite towards 6-6 for shading Athena, which most of that game does which is the main reason I don't have it in second place. Give me my Athena Cykes game!

I feel like 6-6 might be better on a replay. It's a weird case because it has Case 3 Syndrome (wacky case that's filler in the main plot) but it's DLC. But there's no real good place to play the DLC case because the game is so tight. 6-4 in itself is kind of a filler case anyways and 2 clearly filler cases back-to-back feels gross.

I think the strat might be to play 6-6 after finishing SOJ, but like......very long after. Because 6-5 is so much to digest and playing 6-6 right after it showcases its weaknesses hardcore. I do have to give 6-6 props (SOJ minor spoilers) for being the only case in SOJ to have Maya as Phoenix's investigation partner. What's the point of Maya being back without classic Phoenix/Maya banter!

also I love Athena, I really do. I don't know if making Athena a big part of AA7 is the play, but it's something I'm hopeful for. GAA has shown me a lot about the importance of patience, so maybe Athena deserves her own trilogy...!

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I replayed 6-6 and actually hated it more the second time lol

Most cases don't actually get worse for me the second time through, weirdly, but that one DID

Regarding character writing, I completely agree. I feel like the 3DS games - perhaps after the backlash of AJ - are a bit afraid to develop the main characters/take them into new places, which is why Phoenix feels a bit off and Athena is introduced and developed in DD but turned into an afterthought in SOJ. Apollo gets development, but it's in very heavy handed ways that can be emotionally satisfying but also kind of awkwardly implemented (characters retconned into his backstory and subsequently killed).

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SSBM_Guy posted...

I think the strat might be to play 6-6 after finishing SOJ, but like......very long after. Because 6-5 is so much to digest and playing 6-6 right after it showcases its weaknesses hardcore. I do have to give 6-6 props (SOJ minor spoilers) for being the only case in SOJ to have Maya as Phoenix's investigation partner. What's the point of Maya being back without classic Phoenix/Maya banter!

I think it only makes sense to play it at the end because it's after Apollo has left the agency, but yeah, 6-5 is a tough act to follow.

colliding posted...

I feel like the 3DS games - perhaps after the backlash of AJ - are a bit afraid to develop the main characters/take them into new places, which is why Phoenix feels a bit off and Athena is introduced and developed in DD but turned into an afterthought in SOJ. Apollo gets development, but it's in very heavy handed ways that can be emotionally satisfying but also kind of awkwardly implemented

Honestly, Phoenix as a character ran his course at the end of T&T, but with how poorly received AJ was, the only real move to revive the series was to bring him back in a mentor-like role. I think they did a great job with his role in SoJ though.

And I think they learned after DD that having three separate lawyers for 6 cases max is completely unsustainable because one character is going to wind up with the short end of the stick in terms of relevance, which is why SoJ ends with Apollo staying in Khura'in.

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Imagine a case with Athena as the lead and Trucy as the partner

Inject it into my veins.

I doubt we really get much of any more Trucy though since I don't think Apollo is going to have much of a presence at all moving forward. Feels like pretty definitely wanted to end his story. I DO expect a single case in the future with a huge triumphant Apollo return for one last rodeo.

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Of course they could just straight up add a new lawyer to lead...but I think we may have reached full lawyer bloat.

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Oh, I don't think Apollo is done, but I think he assumes an Edgeworth-esque role as a guy who only shows up for epic cases.

And I want a proper Phoenix/Trucy case more than anything. 5-4 is as close as we got, but it doesn't totally count since she wasn't around for the trial.

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I think my game ranking would be 3 > I2 > 1 >= 5 > 6 > G2 > 2 > G1 > I1 > LvW > 4, but I'm not sure. The middle three are all very hard to rank.

My biggest issues with the end of GAA2 are that I really don't like what they did with Kazuma (and he's not a very good prosecutor even if the game makes you think he is) and I couldn't help but feel like the Professor case was just a retread of SL-9, complete with a mastermind removing anyone who might know the truth. Plus it's hard for me to be impressed by the big reveal when it's about two characters that are long dead. That said I'd still probably put the last couple cases somewhere in the middle at worst; they definitely beat 4-4 and L-4 as far as epics go, however low a bar that is.

I actually just replayed DD and I have to agree that the writing is pretty corny at times, but I can forgive the game overall because Simon Blackquill is just too good.

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If I had to imagine an actual fear for AA7, it would be an enormous time jump with a new lead. I'm talking a few decades, something that would make older versions of the old characters show up with DARK SECRETS to be revealed in the last 2 cases. One of the main lawyers or assistants would almost certainly end up the final victim.

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One weird thing with AA7 is that the AA5-6 director left Capcom, so it'd likely be Takumi doing it. Not sure what that means for the main cast.
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Nah, I wouldn't expect any sort of time skip for AA7. Phoenix is the series' bread and butter, so I don't think he's going away quite yet. I think he'll get a proper sendoff because we all saw what happened when they botched that the first time.

plus we still need that Gumshoe cameo

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Could be someone new, though I don't know who they pull unless they're propping up new blood. It's not like Capcom has an expansive library of story focused games nowadays.

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AA7 ends with a scene where nick finally gets to "present" a ring to a waifu/edgeworth of your choice. Gumshoe is your best man.

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colliding posted...

AA7 ends with a scene where nick finally gets to "present" a ring to a waifu/edgeworth of your choice. Gumshoe is your best man.

I can only imagine the internet war that will be waged if they ever give Phoenix a canon romance.

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"Will you be mine, Mike Meekins?"


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it would be pretty funny if Phoenix's send-off was him actually getting married and thus retiring

AA7 would likely be ten years after AA3, right? Surely that's a long enough sentence for being an accomplice to murder...

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I may purchase this and play it over the weekend.

I mean if it's not like, AJ overall bad then it should still be pretty good~

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LeonhartFour posted...

Nah, I wouldn't expect any sort of time skip for AA7. Phoenix is the series' bread and butter, so I don't think he's going away quite yet. I think he'll get a proper sendoff because we all saw what happened when they botched that the first time.

plus we still need that Gumshoe cameo

Where was he in AA5 and AA6

Why did Scruffy get snubbed

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colliding posted...

AA7 ends with a scene where nick finally gets to "present" a ring to a waifu/edgeworth of your choice. Gumshoe is your best man.

holy shit, I actually really love this idea lol

they won't have the balls to do it though. you basically gotta bring back Iris and somehow excuse the fact that phoenix basically went an entire decade without mentioning her once

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SSBM_Guy posted...

holy shit, I actually really love this idea lol

they won't have the balls to do it though. you basically gotta bring back Iris and somehow excuse the fact that phoenix basically went an entire decade without mentioning her once

Speaking of people that shouldn't have completely vanished...

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Crescent-Moon posted...

Where was he in AA5 and AA6

Why did Scruffy get snubbed

if I had to guess, it's because gumshoe's role as detective has just been scrubbed so much. Mild GAA1 spoilers.one thing I really loved in GAA is the detective role is kinda split between Sholmes and Gregson. Sholmes is your friendly helpful detective with the cool investigation gimmicks and Gregson is...friendly to your face, but a lot more ambiguous where he stands. You might forget it, but Gumshoe doesn't feel like a true pal until he literally saves your life at the end of 1-3. After that, Gumshoe basically becomes a friendly and lovable part of the main cast and every detective since then follows the same footsteps. I feel a lot of GAA characters really benefit from taking classic AA archetypes and splitting them into 2 or 3 or 4 way more developed characters.

I can't wait to finish GAA and go through entire character and case rankings. I have so much to say!

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Said fuck it and got I2 running on my phone.

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SSBM_Guy posted...

holy shit, I actually really love this idea lol

they won't have the balls to do it though. you basically gotta bring back Iris and somehow excuse the fact that phoenix basically went an entire decade without mentioning her once

I mean, he went nearly two whole games without directly mentioning Maya, so that's not too farfetched.

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He didn't want to get Trucy's hopes up for finding a mother until he knew for sure

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

I should probably figure out how to give AAvPL another try one day, but unfortunately it's still stuck on original hardware. I imagine it being a crossover is the cause.

It'd definitely be interesting to look back at it after playing GAA since Layton vs inspired so much of it.
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Just had a thought that a long case featuring a heavily shortned G1-4 as a single day of investigation and trial, only to be followed up by a mostly intact G2-2 would have been a pretty fantastic case. They even sow the seeds of the characters in 1-4 already to begin with!

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G2-2
Just summoned Olive Green as a witness. I hope there is more to the case than meets the eye because it's been one of the most obvious cases ever. By the middle of investigation part 2 you already figure everything out. When you talk to Mr Garrideb about the young person in the picture, everything fit. And then you see the mouse dying and...yeah
I think they realized it was obvious because when you need to present who poisones the pipe, there is no direct link to Olive Green being mentioned directly...you need to figure it out yourself. And you probably did 2 hours before it came up

Anyway I did like them finally splitting thr investigation and trial parts like the old games. Made the pacing much better

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G2-3 beginning
I have said it many times but I feel like I must complain about it again
The idea that literally every single case they say the same thing about van Zieks, "there is no salvation for the defeandent in a case against baron Vas Zieks"
But we already had 4 cases against him at this point, and only once his "curse" happened. And we already figured out who the killer of that one case was
So as long as Natsume and Gina are safe...the "Reaper Curse" is such a bullshit way to hype a prosecutor
I will have to see maybe there will be more to this later...but so far it's a disappointing premise that only delivered once

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It takes more than an exception or two to get rid of a superstition so if anything it's more realistic the reputation still sticks to him

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Leonhart4 posted...

It takes more than an exception or two to get rid of a superstition so if anything it's more realistic the reputation still sticks to him

I believe the usual timeline for victims of the curse is stated as a few days to a few months. McGilded was unusually fast, but I wouldn't say Gina and Soseki would even be exceptions so much as waiting their turn. At least, as far as the people of London would be concerned.

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I mean one of the two exceptions was a dude that literally left the entire continent immediately so, yeah.

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G2-3 beginning again
Calling it now-
The masked apprentice is actually Asogi. Somehow being still alive and faked his death because of that secret mission
Is it stupid? maybe. But why else would he wear a mask?!?!?!?!

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