Board 8 > The Great Ace Attorney Chronicles Review Zone

(+) Yeah! (+)

GAA1-4 beated

Only case 5 to go. I assume it'll be the longest.

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Shovel vs Spade

The new/old Ladder vs Stepladder, I see.

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GAA1-5 spoilers
This game is really leaning hard on Windibanks threatening to commit suicide as a joke.

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There is a annoying bug, when playing with autoplay, that when you reach cross examination, the autoplay is still active so it doesn't let you move fast between statements. And you can't turn off the autoplay during cross examination so it's dumb (you can press a statement and then turn it off..but still dumb)

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Finished the first case. I played it a year ago but I wanted to play again as a refresher for the second one and hoping that maybe I will like it more this time (spoiler I won't)
The same thing that bothered me the first time bothers me again
Being set in the past, It's just not clear how advanced the technology is/isn't. After playing like 10 games in which we had technology...it's hard to get used to it not having it
Like, we have photos. But what about ballistics markings analysis? Was it too advanced for that time peroid? And not being able to tell the poison I understand... but is comparing two of the same bottles content impossible?
Not being able to determine the cause of death...too
I dunno I don't like this gimmick of being set in the stone age and all the twists are because of it

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Stuck on 2-1, it's been a while since I couldn't figure something out at all

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I looked at a guide and now I is sad

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GAA1 beated

Mid-tier as far as the series goes, I'd say. I did enjoy the setting. A million unanswered questions about everything, which I have to assume will be dealt with in the sequel. The ending made me realize how much weaker Naruhodo's objection is than Phoenix's. van Ziecks is mid-tier as well, but for all I know, he shows up in the sequel and does more good stuff, so I won't do a ranking or anything until I finish GAA2.

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Yeah, the stories are meant to go together, so it's difficult to judge the major characters and overarching plotlines until you finish both games.

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Avoiding the rest of the topic. Approaching the end of 1-4.

I can't say I'm not enjoying the game, but there's definitely an air of dullness to to it that isn't present in the other games in the franchise. I will admit to bias, I don't really like the Ye Olde London or adjacent setting in fiction in general, could barely make it into AA v Layton before dropping it. Getting this after 5 and 6 certainly doesn't help.

However in terms of legitimate complaints, and unless there's a drastic turn at the end of 4 here, there main feeling I have is that the end of each chapter just has a lack of satisfaction to it? Like, just now in 4, and the reason I'm making this post, oh gee wilakers Mr Ace Attorney, I'm sure a stand up guy and I love my job, please take this piece of evidence that I'm giving you out of nowhere for NO REAL reason that is going to be used to completely blow this testimony out of the water in literally the very next Press of the very next piece of dialogue, with absolutely no hint of subtlety or questionable mystery whatsoever!

Like... I dunno, feels like the game is treating you like a moron most of the time, and sometimes it's treating ITSELF like it's not got it altogether?

My annoyance with this one case right now may be making me madder than I should be, especially since I'm not actually done with it yet. Could be I'm way off base!

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Case 4 finished.

Issue I'm now starting to take as well...Van Zieks is a moron. So much of the stuff he's surprised by is such obvious foregone conclusions even by the standards of the character's back and forth dialogue. Like, he didn't make the connection about the metal piece possibly being the knife tip until actually touching them together even though you've been TALKING about a knife tip breaking and he'd ALREADY seen the metal piece you found? His character is not presented like that should be a thing he would have to realize. There are other small inconsistencies in his skills likes this.

Also and this is aimed at everyone in the case "how do you expect us to believe she caught the book?" fucking really? She picked the book up is the huge, FINAL piece of evidence to present for this, this absolutely obvious shit from the second the photo was first presented hours ago, and everyone is freaking out about and Naruhodo thinks is going to doom the day??

I dunno, maybe it's just been too long and all the other AA games have stuff like this too that didn't bother me at the time. Maybe other games I have played since then with more legitimate mysteries have made me less tolerant of how drawn out this stuff can be, especially in this particular case where the stakes are SO low. Right now, just going by old memories, I'd say this is probably one of the worst cases in AA as a whole. Not THE worst, of course, but up there.

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Zepelli??

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zvarri

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Starting to feel like this game would be much better and lose absolutely nothing if 20% of the dialogue was jut straight up removed.

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

Starting to feel like this game would be much better and lose absolutely nothing if 20% of the dialogue was jut straight up removed.

i mean it feels like every case will occasionally draw out a really obvious conclusion through multiple testimonies. like case 1 the plates being switched and then case 4 it's just really obvious the knife came out the window for like the final 30% of the case but you have to do soooo much to get people to accept it. it makes everything feel very anticlimactic and unsatisfying.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

I dunno, maybe it's just been too long and all the other AA games have stuff like this too that didn't bother me at the time. Maybe other games I have played since then with more legitimate mysteries have made me less tolerant of how drawn out this stuff can be, especially in this particular case where the stakes are SO low. Right now, just going by old memories, I'd say this is probably one of the worst cases in AA as a whole. Not THE worst, of course, but up there.

yeah i had the same feeling. i was like "am i crazy, or are AA games usually more complex than this? like am i just used to the tropes now? is nostalgia clouding my mind?"

but i don't think we're crazy, i think AA games usually are harder. i mean i don't think i had to think longer than a minute for almost any cross-exam or present in the game, and even those cases it wasn't because you have to realize anything clever, it's just a bit unintuitive to know what to present.

it's modern game design streamlining at its absolute peak, holding your hand so you never have to think about anything

anyway, after finishing the first game:

i think the key to appreciating this game would be going into it knowing that it really doesn't want to be an ace attorney game. like, case 2 doesn't even have a trial and is super underwhelming. case 3 ends with absolutely no resolution. case 4 only exists to be a filler between cases 3 and 5 and its completely pointless, because this game's strength isn't the murder mysteries, it's the overarching plot and character motivations. i mean you literally don't even know who the victim is until you go to court, you get 2 pieces of evidence in a whole investigation day, what. case 5 is really interesting when it comes to the mystery behind it all, but the actual case is so far from any other "epic" case in the series, i mean what other final case takes places entirely in one room and has a total of... 3 witnesses? (2 of which are basically a pair anyway)

A+ for characters though. C- for the actual murder mysteries. like B for the overall plot. i'm quite intrigued to learn more in the sequel. just dreading these cases whose complexity levels basically never rise beyond the difficulty of a tutorial case.

Also if this is spoilers to answer don't say anything, but this thing from the first trial is driving me INSANE

HOW IS "SHE POISONED THE RIM OF THE GLASS" NOT SOMETHING THAT IS BROUGHT UP AT ALL?? They put so much emphasis on that glass for NOTHING. I get that that's not the final answer, but it's so god damn obvious as a possibility that them not even briefly giving it lip service is ABSURD, especially since the actual answer is fucking rare foreign poison which our country doesn't know about, which...even with the time setting, I refuse to believe they would run tests on it and come back with results that there's literally nothing in there, even if they didn't know what it is. Just completely unable to suspend my disbelief on that one. It feel like the writer came up with the solution to all these case and worked backwards to make it all fit after the fact sometimes.



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Takumi borrowed a lot of these elements from actual Sherlock Holmes stories and integrated them into the plot, sometimes poorly. The seemingly undetectable South American poison is an important element of The Sign of the Four, for instance.

But make no mistake. Takumi is writing a Sherlock Holmes novel with GAA more than he's writing an Ace Attorney game, and in a mystery novel, the mystery builds and builds until the big resolution at the end, as opposed to Ace Attorney, which may have an overarching story it's trying to tell, but each episode is largely self-contained.

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I'm aware of the thing where it's actually meant to all be one narrative and not seen as independant games (and from what I hear got the Xenosaga treatment and gutted from 3 to 2), but it's going to be difficult not to judge it independentally regardless. We'll see how this final chapter goes, AA2 was a huge pile of doodoo until it's last chapter afterall.

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Right, you're used to judging an Ace Attorney case on its own merits, so it's difficult to change your stance on that just because Takumi is doing it differently this time.

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LeonhartFour posted...

But make no mistake. Takumi is writing a Sherlock Holmes novel with GAA more than he's writing an Ace Attorney game, and in a mystery novel, the mystery builds and builds until the big resolution at the end, as opposed to Ace Attorney, which may have an overarching story it's trying to tell, but each episode is largely self-contained.

The previous AA games are more similar to Sherlock Holmes books if anything, since most of them are short stories.

And none of the Sherlock boss are anything like GAA, which is a collection of related mysteries that're part of a bigger mystery.
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There are standalone full length Sherlock Holmes books, too. That's more akin to what GAA is trying to do more than a bunch of loosely connected short stories.

And I'm not saying it's exactly the same, but he's trying to write a mystery novel within the confines of AA's parameters. The episodes all connect together by the end.

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Eh, other games already do the all cases connecting thing and they do it better than GAA.

So does Ghost Trick
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Mac Arrowny posted...

Eh, other games already do the all cases connecting thing and they do it better than GAA.

I mean, yes, but those individual cases can all stand on their own merits, too. That's how GAA is different. Each case is meant to build up to the finale in a different way than, say, T&T does.

And Ghost Trick is a different type of game altogether, so it doesn't really belong in this discussion.

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Leonhart4 posted...

I mean, yes, but those individual cases can all stand on their own merits, too. That's how GAA is different. Each case is meant to build up to the finale in a different way than, say, T&T does.

Sure, but good on their own and good together is way better than just good together. And the overarching mystery of GAA isn't good anyway
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I mean, I'm not defending it. I'm just explaining why it doesn't feel like a traditional Ace Attorney game.

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I'm only in 1-3 but let me just say that I don't think "multiple witnesses" works. It didn't really work in Layton and it's not really working here. I just don't understand the point. Sure one of the witnesses makes a weird noise, you gesture over and continue the pressing. But if this is done at the expense of actually interesting witness characters and evidence-presenting puzzles, then why bother? It barely even counts as a "puzzle" because it's so obvious when it happens.

This is separate from the new jury mechanic which seems interesting, and I'm willing to see how that develops.

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The system would be interesting if you had to actually pay attention, but it's literally a huge alarm going off. Having to examine for subtle character ticks is previous games was a far, far better system. This one is basically pointless.

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It's actually kind of interesting how Naruhodo doesn't get a unique minigame about his skills, like the Magatama, Bracelet, Psychology, or Logic. The first case kind of implied that him having a super memory would be important, but it never comes up again.

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Anagram posted...

It's actually kind of interesting how Naruhodo doesn't get a unique minigame about his skills, like the Magatama, Bracelet, Psychology, or Logic. The first case kind of implied that him having a super memory would be important, but it never comes up again.

It's not his memory but rather his powers of observation, and I think the "Dance of Deduction" with Holmes is meant to play off of that.

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Mac Arrowny posted...

Eh, other games already do the all cases connecting thing and they do it better than GAA.

So does Ghost Trick

Right. The issue is this game had to stick to the AA format (5 cases, each one has a defendant and a trial resulting in learning the real killer), when it would be much better off if it didn't have to do that. And it didn't! But because you're not expecting that, it all feels very underwhelming in the moment. And it could've done it better if it freed itself from those shackles completely instead of weakly trying to conform. (game 1 spoilers only)

Boy I hope future Dances of Deduction are less tedious than 1-2! I get the feeling they won't be and we're stuck with them taking a really long time. Oh well, I guess they really wanted to show off those 3DS capabilities.

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Case 9 spoilers and speculation once van zieks said stronghart was involved in the trial 10 years ago, I'm assuming the real professor is stronghart, kenshin was wrongfully convicted, and his hatred for the japanese was misplaced

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Dropping thoughts as they come to my head. Some of what others have said I agree with and just reiterating

It's different in a way that does not feel like an Ace Attorney game, like the tone and setting makes a difference. I agree to drop the expectation that it's supposed to be an AA game for that. And definitely feels better psychologically to treat this as 1 game with 10 cases

Gameplay is very handholdy like AA5, streamlined so game plays itself most of the time. The timing of information being revealed feels a bit off, both for individual cases and for the bigger storyline (but it picks up a lot in Case 8). A lot of dialogue feels really filler. I'm conflicted because I think it does a lot of character building but it's very inconsequential. But because of that character building, I really like them all, I think Susato has been the best and most competent AA partner ever.

The package is fantastic with all the extras and the lower cost too for a game that's never been localized yet (probably make less money than Nintendo's methodology but the consumer thanks you)

I'm still very much enjoying the ride, it's really picking up and I'm glad I'm playing

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GTM posted...

I really like them all, I think Susato has been the best and most competent AA partner ever.

I'm waiting for something to click here. Right now about 2 hours into case 5 I would struggle to even call her a character at all. She's been the most bland, boring assistant imaginable, and for a character entertainment standpoint hasn't provided even an ounce of a reason for me to enjoy her presence. In terms of COMPETANCE however, yes, she's come off as strong.

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Susato is excellent. I actually appreciate the fact that she's more understated compared to the usual zany assistant girls.

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I think that kind of why it's NOT working for me, not just Susato but the game as a whole, because I don't appreciate subtlety in AA games at all. I want absurdity, I want bombasticness. I'm not here for dry, unless being dry is the fun in and I itself (Edgeworth). Sholmes is really the only thing that's working for m in this game so far as far as matching up to previous entries, to be honest.

But, as has been said, I'm only jut now starting the last case of the first game, so this could all change quickly. Popeye and Sylvando were arguing in the middle of the street like 6 hours ago for a few seconds, maybe they'll shake things up.

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Nanis23 posted...

Finished the first case. I played it a year ago but I wanted to play again as a refresher for the second one and hoping that maybe I will like it more this time (spoiler I won't)
The same thing that bothered me the first time bothers me again
Being set in the past, It's just not clear how advanced the technology is/isn't. After playing like 10 games in which we had technology...it's hard to get used to it not having it
Like, we have photos. But what about ballistics markings analysis? Was it too advanced for that time peroid? And not being able to tell the poison I understand... but is comparing two of the same bottles content impossible?
Not being able to determine the cause of death...too
I dunno I don't like this gimmick of being set in the stone age and all the twists are because of it

Finished the third case now, still thinking it's probably the best in the game
I don't have enough to say about case 2, but -
I feel like the lack of emotion to Asogi's death was...weird. Looking back, I guess Phoenix reacting to Mia death was...kinda emotionless too. And I understand why they had to do that, as the game must continue and Ryu must investigate, but I still feel like it was far too emotionless reaction for what was supposed to be his best friend death

Case 3 is...
If the game in general wasn't this weak (weak characters, weak music, weak prosecutor, mostly emotionless) then just by being unique it would have been one of the best in the series, but sadly it isn't
Magnus defending himself and setting up everything was great. Faking evidence in the middle of the trial and not being able to disconfirm it was also a great twist. And then the surpising ending.

I also want to say we really need more competent defendants in the series (just...innocent ones) because all the time we get some idiots, or some characters that are not idiots but weak and defenseless, or actually strong characters that are unable to defend themselves because..reasons (like Edgeworth and Lana)
So seeing Magnus being able to defend himself and actually accuse the other two witnesses was a nice change. And I wish we could have seen it again... but with a innocent defendant.

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I also went ahead and checked how much time a case takes, based on Youtube user Slyzer playlist

Case 1 - 03:41:19
Case 2 - 03:59:41
Case 3 - 03:16:20
Case 4 - 05:42:46
Case 5 - 09:50:50

And uh..
From what I remember from case 4 I hated it so that sucks seeing it being this longer than the previous 3
And case 5 being as almost as long as the first 3 combined...

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Susato is okay I guess. I don't think I'd rank her above any of the other assistants. She feels a lot more shallow than most of them (in terms of characterization).
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Nanis23 posted...

From what I remember from case 4 I hated it so that sucks seeing it being this longer than the previous 3

I mean, case 4 was the first full case in the game, so it makes sense that it's longer than the first three.


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Mac Arrowny posted...

Susato is okay I guess. I don't think I'd rank her above any of the other assistants. She feels a lot more shallow than most of them (in terms of characterization).

Eh, I'd say Trucy is the most shallow assistant (but still great!), although SoJ at least attempted to give her some development.

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Trucy is super fun though
But she wasn't very helpful..was she..

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Pleaaaaaase stop talking about how crossing your eyes and stereoscopes works PLEAAAAAASE.

I've been stuck investigating this building for two days because I keep getting bored and pulling my phone out, Jesus.

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GAA1 beaten. Overall, OK game but I feel pretty good on the game in retrospect. Quick thoughts on each case.

Case 1 - Good intro case thats a little too long. I love Auchi and Kazuma. Very strong intro to Ryonusuke too.
Case 2 - Not a good case but it makes more sense thinking of this case as a Dance of Deduction intro case. Sholmes saves this case from being bottom 5.
Case 3 - Great case, only held back that its basically the third intro case, this time just for summation examination. I love the intrigue and how much it sets up the rest of the plot.
Case 4 - Yikes, this is 6-4 but without any of the fun. Easy bottom 5 case.
Case 5 - Really great finale case without actually being too difficult. Its a hell of a slow burn but its sooooo worth it. Honestly gave me 2-4 vibes. Easy too 10 case, only held back by the fact that this isnt technically a finale and a still pretty simple murder mystery.

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G1-5 is pretty good, but top 10 might be pushing things. I dunno if I'd rank it above, say, any T&T case.
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OK this 1-5 jury is already making this great and they literally just showed them.

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Oh my God they're explaining Stereoscopic images AGAIN

Getting 4-3 flashbacks here.

I unironically think Takumi believes his entire base is made up of idiots and literal children.


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beated

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