Poll of the Day > So is Israel at war with someone?

(+) Yeah! (+)

GanonsSpirit posted...

Muscles, have you ever considered shutting the fuck up? Because you sound like a dumbass every time you post.

IronBornCorps posted...

So you support a nation that denies medical treatment, ample food security, and gets away with human rights violations just because they are allied with the US?

Whataboutism. not acceptable.

thedeerzord posted...

I am neither pro Israel nor am I pro Palestine.

They can both go fuck themselves.

This is probably the best post in this whole thread.

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to choose neutrality in the issue of oppression, to choose the side of the oppressor.

Also, how was your post not Whataboutism?

IronBornCorps posted...

to choose neutrality in the issue of oppression, to choose the side of the oppressor.

Also, how was your post not Whataboutism?

Uhh no, whataboutism is about making excuses for bad behaviour by pointing to another's bad behaviour, when neither are okay. So in this case, Israel's shitty human rights abuses doesn't make Hamas' human rights abuses okay. The fact that both these nations are terrible is why I said Deerzord had the best post in the topic.
Military using civilians as human shields and total disregard for humanity are oppressed? Give me a break. You sound like Janwaydahl or whoever TF it was

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Muscles posted...

I'm not sure why so many people hate Israel.

I imagine antisemitism plays a very large role in that. Europe and the middle east are deeply entrenched in antisemitism going back hundreds of years, which was partly carried over to the Americas by colonists as well as some of the attitudes coming back when servicemen returned from Europe after WWI. That's when you had men like Henry Ford distributing antisemitic hoaxes like the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

Muscles posted... They're the only democracy/ally of the west in the middle east

I'm sure that the fact they've made democracy work within their nation and prospered because of it doesn't exactly engender the love from authoritarian nations within the region whose people can see Israel's success and freedoms then want those for themselves.

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So this...
Ferarri619 posted...

So you support a nation using civilians as human shields and getting them killed to protect their own military, and anyone who doesn't support their military is racist. Okay then

in response to this...

IronBornCorps posted...

I'm sure if your neighbor moved someone into your house and forced you to live in a small closet, you would be upset by that as well.

Also, conflating an entire nation as terrorist is pretty racist.

is not Whataboutism? yeah, ok.

Also, I'm pretty sure locking an entire group of people behind a metal wall with minimal resources while you have power, is in fact oppression. You speak as if everyone in Palestine has a bomb strapped to their chest, which again is racist.

Mead posted...

why should any family be kicked out of the home they own so that it can be given to someone else deemed a chosen person

As I've already stated, it is wrong but that has more to do with how the French and English just going and being dicks to non Europeans

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Muscles posted...

As I've already stated, it is wrong but that has more to do with how the French and English just going and being dicks to non Europeans

It is happening right now

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Zeus posted...

I imagine antisemitism plays a very large role in that.

and here is the worst take of the topic. Seriously anyone who spouts this isn't worth listening to and gets all their talking points from Breitbart and Fox

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israel is an ethnonationalist settler colony. palestine should be returned to the palestinians.

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imagine literally defending israel in 2021 XD cringe

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Putting everything else aside (and there's a lot of "everything else") the only way this ends is if Israel works towards a reasonable solution for the Palestinians. Regardless of how things ended up the way that they are, Israel now has control of both the land and the power. However, they will never have peace, because they are effectively forcing many people to live in random patches of land with limited rights. Even if the Palestinians were 100% at fault for how things have turned out that simply is not a situation that will ever be stable. The history, as "rich" as it is, simply doesn't matter in that equation.

The truth is that Israel has no intention of ever giving Palestinians equal rights in a "one state" solution because if Palestinians had full voting rights Israel's government would be voted out. Demographics strongly favor the Palestinians. But Israel's religious fundamentalists strongly oppose a two-state solution. So: Israel's politicians can talk a good game about Palestinians needing to drop their opposition to Israel's existence etc etc...but it's fake. Israel has shown no willingness to work towards a real solution. They have the power to implement a solution and, if done in good faith, would have the backing of the rest of the world to deal with the Palestinians who didn't accept it. But they have not made a good faith effort in years (or possibly ever, depending on your point of view).

Maybe a new government will come to power there and try someday. Until then, it's unclear why the West would want to continue to ally themselves with a country that is, yes, friendly and relatively powerful in an unfriendly region...but also one of the primary CAUSES that the region continues to be unfriendly. The West owed an enormous debt to Jewish people following WWII, but this is no longer the way to pay that debt back (if it ever was).

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wpot posted...

The truth is that Israel has no intention of ever giving Palestinians equal rights in a "one state" solution because if Palestinians had full voting rights Israel's government would be voted out.

Which is why they gotta be removed from power. It doesnt get much more corrupt than that.

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Zeus posted...

I imagine antisemitism plays a very large role in that.

Having an issue with blatantly criminal actions that incite attacks on civilians is antisemitism.

BlackScythe0 posted...

Having an issue with blatantly criminal actions that incite attacks on civilians is antisemitism.

But they're both semitic!

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It's funny how people in the privileged Western world will throw the word "racist" around when discussing issues in the Middle East. The culture of oppression there is less about skin color and more about religious beliefs.

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Ferarri619 posted...

It's funny how people in the privileged Western world will throw the word "racist" around when discussing issues in the Middle East. The culture of oppression there is less about skin color and more about religious beliefs.

ok well you're a white man from canada so what does that make you in this

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Kanatteru posted...

ok well you're a white man from canada so what does that make you in this

How did you know that? Are you an alt? haha
Basically I just find it cringe when people do that because it shows really ill-informed view of other cultures.

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Ferarri619 posted...

It's funny how people in the privileged Western world will throw the word "racist" around when discussing issues in the Middle East. The culture of oppression there is less about skin color and more about religious beliefs.

its almost like people deserve for their basic human rights to be respected regardless of the reason

it doesn't matter that religion is the motivation or the excuse. You cant just kill people and kick them out of their homes. You gonna let someone do that to you and your family?

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Mead posted...

its almost like people deserve for their basic human rights to be respected regardless of the reason

it doesn't matter that religion is the motivation or the excuse. You cant just kill people and kick them out of their homes. You gonna let someone do that to you and your family?

Of course human rights need to be respected. That goes without saying.
What I mean is that people like Ironborncorps throwing the word "racist" around on these views is pretty dumb. Prejudice would be a better term. Religion is not a race.

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I wasn't discussing issues in the middle east when I said that. I said you were racist for acting like every person in Palestine is a suicide bomber. Now, if you feel that way because they are Muslim and not Arab, then yeah, my bad, that's not racism, that's Islamophobia.

Ferarri619 posted...

throwing the word "racist" around on these views is pretty dumb. Prejudice would be a better term. Religion is not a race.

what exactly is your point?

guys Im not racist Im prejudiced

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Ferarri619 posted...

Of course human rights need to be respected. That goes without saying.

I think it very much needs to be said. Loudly and frequently.

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IronBornCorps posted...

every person in Palestine is a suicide bomber.

My criticisms are for the military and not the civilians who just want to live their lives.
People will criticize Israel's human rights abuses (and they should) but it makes me angry that people will imply that Hamas is a victim. They're human rights abuses are well-documented. But no, anyone who calls them out on it is "racist" right? And again, civilians are not the "suicide bombers", the military/government is.
The fact that you support innocent Palestaniens getting put in danger/killed by their own government is pretty gross tbh

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Mead posted...

I think it very much needs to be said. Loudly and frequently.

Tell that to IronBornCorps

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Ferarri619 posted...

Tell that to IronBornCorps

I think youre confused

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Mead posted...

I think youre confused

"That goes without saying" was simply implying that I agree with you that human rights need to be respected.

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the problem with simply saying both sides are bad is that yeah both sides do awful stuff but just acknowledging that doesnt really move anything forward and so the conflict just continues to rage on as you stand in your moral superiority
as much as you dont like either side you have to pick one to end a conflict like this, and if you can't bring yourself to make that decision than you really dont have shit to say here, yeah war sucks we know but in the end its still fuck nazis right?

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I'm not implying any sort of support for terrorist action, but if you don't want people to be radicalized to take such actions, maybe don't lock them behind shrinking walls with minimum resources. No one is born a terrorist. Having a destabilized region ruled by a corrupt body is bound to create a few to say the least.

Ferarri619 posted...

"That goes without saying" was simply implying that I agree with you that human rights need to be respected.

And Im saying that it very much needs to be said and reiterated because far too many people seem to not care about human rights as long as the people being oppressed are different enough or a sufficient distance away

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TheSlinja posted...

the problem with simply saying both sides are bad is that yeah both sides do awful stuff but just acknowledging that doesnt really move anything forward and so the conflict just continues to rage on as you stand in your moral superiority
as much as you dont like either side you have to pick one to end a conflict like this, and if you can't bring yourself to make that decision than you really dont have shit to say here, yeah war sucks we know but in the end its still fuck nazis right?

I disagree with the idea that there can't be a solution when disagreeing with both sides, or simply believing that there isn't really a solution.
The 2014 Israel-Hamas conflict was in the news 24/7 back then. I remember the airstrikes being carried out with both of them targeting civilians. Israel was provoked over the murder of 3 Israeli teenagers by Hamas, which escalated with airstrikes. After a ceasefire Hamas would escalate with surprise airstrikes. Israel and Hamas never make an effort to de-escalate and as a result, the death of 3 turned into thousands.
What finally put an end to the escalation was that Egypt had to step in to get both to stop, and that seems to be the only thing that works. Get a different country to step in or else the killing won't end. Israelis and Palestinians will never find a resolution because they just won't reason with one another. I know that's a pessimistic viewpoint, but this conflict has gone on forever. What makes anyone think there will be a solution now?

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Literally nobody cares or thinks anyone is intelligent by them pointing out that both sides arent perfect

no one is claiming otherwise, it turns out your human rights matter either way

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Ferarri619 posted...

Israel was provoked over the murder of 3 Israeli teenagers by Hamas, which escalated with airstrikes.

So a government responded to the murder of three individuals by having its military bomb a crowded civilian center? Thats inarguably a crime against humanity.

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you claim that getting other people to intervene is the only thing that works but it doesnt, it just stalls for time before it starts up again like it always does, like it or not the only thing thats likely to end this conflict is if one of the sides actually wins, untill that happens the fighting will never end.

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TheSlinja posted...

the problem with simply saying both sides are bad is that yeah both sides do awful stuff but just acknowledging that doesnt really move anything forward and so the conflict just continues to rage on as you stand in your moral superiority
as much as you dont like either side you have to pick one to end a conflict like this, and if you can't bring yourself to make that decision than you really dont have shit to say here, yeah war sucks we know but in the end its still fuck nazis right?

My stance is that the west should get out of the middle east entirely

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hey as long as you count israelites as part of the west i agree

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Mead posted...

So a government responded to the murder of three individuals by having its military bomb a crowded civilian center? Thats inarguably a crime against humanity.

Specifically, Israeli officials arrested hundreds and killed 5 Palestanians in response to the murders.
I dunno exactly the point at which the airstrikes started.

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Muscles posted...

My stance is that the west should get out of the middle east entirely

Also stop funding ALL military in the middle East, including Israel.
Literally all Republicans and OVER HALF of dems signed the bill in Congress recently to provide weapons to Israel for pretty much any reason. So much for Americans claiming to be pro-human rights, given the politicians they voted in.

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just look at how the borders of israel have changed over the years. even if both sides have done bad stuff, ultimately that's not very helpful because you don't have to be an expert on geopolitics to see who is better equipped to deal with conflict.

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Ferarri619 posted...

Also stop funding ALL military in the middle East, including Israel.
Literally all Republicans and OVER HALF of dems signed the bill in Congress recently to provide weapons to Israel for pretty much any reason. So much for Americans claiming to be pro-human rights, given the politicians they voted in.

I'm fine with that

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Ferarri619 posted...

Literally all Republicans and OVER HALF of dems signed the bill in Congress recently to provide weapons to Israel for pretty much any reason.

Muscles posted...

I'm fine with that

yikes 2 the max

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Obviously I meant the 1st part, we shouldn't be funding any country in the middle east, including Israel

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gaza commander killed

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MrMelodramatic posted...

gaza commander killed

Well, good job Israel: I'm sure that will effectively stop the attacks and stop others from attacking in the future. Furthermore, the expression of power will no doubt intimidate the entire Palestinian people into acceptance of their living conditions.

*this post includes extreme sarcasm, for those who don't have a sarcasm meter*

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Mountain goats are butting heads over a hill every day. At least they are quite about it.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/261-politics/79451769/953838476

This post

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"Who went first?"

the people who fucking stole the land that necessitates terrorism to try to reclaim it

you don't get to force someone into a desperate situation and go "look at how evil they are!!!"

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Ferarri619 posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/261-politics/79451769/953838476

This post

I bet theyd stop being attacked with rockets if they left Palestine.

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