Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 372: Greene New Deal

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://twitter.com/nbcnews/status/1387771480398827521?s=21

Im not going to point out the obvious, but this is bad.

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Why is that bad?

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yeah, they should have just banned all cigarettes period.

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Because they didn't ban non-menthols as well.

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FFDragon posted...

Because they didn't ban non-menthols as well.

While I agree, I have a feeling that's not what Tony was going for

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it's prohibition

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If arguing that route, they didn't ban all cigarettes. Menthol cigarettes literally just exist to make it easier/more enticing to smoke.

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Just another example of hating on the poor

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Anyway we've been slowly chipping away at the (tobacco) smoking rate in this country and should continue to do so.

One of the few things this country has actually been better at than most of the rest of the world.

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Only banning the cigarettes Black people smoke, huh? Sounds great, now the police will finally have an excuse to hassle Black people for no reason.
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HashtagSEP posted...

If arguing that route, they didn't ban all cigarettes. Menthol cigarettes literally just exist to make it easier/more enticing to smoke.

Tell me you grew up in a white neighborhood without telling me you grew up in a white neighborhood, lol.

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I mean that's literally what they exist for. It shouldn't matter who primarily smokes them now, they exist to be an easier way to smoke to get people, specifically young people, hooked.

That they existed to begin with to ruin these people's lives is terrible.

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masterplum posted...

Just another example of hating on the poor

Hey if they stop smoking three packs a day at $10 a pack they'll have $11,000 more a year!

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I absolutely hold the amount of money my dad spent on cigarettes over a lifetime(well, like 25 years) over his head, tbh. Its pretty ridiculous.

(I actually hate my dad if you are curious how I could do this)

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Good start, hopefully a full ban soon.

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That isn't even getting to how much he spent on heroin over the same period(It is some large number I obviously don't know the actual amount).

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HashtagSEP posted...

I mean that's literally what they exist for. It shouldn't matter who primarily smokes them now, they exist to be an easier way to smoke to get people, specifically young people, hooked.

That they existed to begin with to ruin these people's lives is terrible.

Banning literally menthol cigarettes and blunt wraps could not be more laser-targeted towards black people, lol.

At least be consistent and ban them all.

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The reason it appears "laser-targeted" at black people is because the tobacco industry quite literally preys on them with menthol cigarettes.

They absolutely should ban them all, but this seems silly to try to paint as a racism issue when it's only a race issue because the tobacco industry laser-targets black people, particularly children, with menthol cigarettes in the first place.

Polls show black people favor cigarette bans of any type over while people by an almost two to one margin to begin with.

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Is the argument really going to be "how dare the government attempt to disproportionately help black people"?

i can see arguments for/against, but honestly don't care enough to argue hard. i'll trust the experts, who cares

i don't know if i'd go so far as to call it prohibition, since menthol is just a slightly harmful additive/painkiller? so one could argue it's the same as banning rat poison in cigarettes (which is objectively a good thing). you can still buy rat-poison-less cigarettes

my social circle is all about non-menthol american spirits for some reasons that i don't store in my brain, so they won't be affected

while i've always known they were marketed towards/more popular among black communities, i think using that as justification for/against the ban registers on my bs detector.

we'll see if the FDA has legal standing for this. the wikipedia page has a weirdly convoluted supreme court history on the subject

i want the drug war to end, but if it's gonna end i think we will still need regulations on what additives are approved

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Leafeon13N posted...

Is the argument really going to be "how dare the government attempt to disproportionately help black people"?

Lol ok, Im not having an argument with people who think black people specifically cant help themselves, as opposed to all legal cigarette smokers

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Im not having an argument

Sweet

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FFDragon posted...

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Im not having an argument

Sweet

And they said miracles weren't real.
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Adults should absolutely be able to buy menthol cigarettes, and it makes even less sense to ban menthols without just banning all cigarettes if you want to go the nanny state route. The government should heavily regulate the cigarette companies (no reason for the absurd high levels of nicotine, dangerous additives, etc) but adults should be able to partake in nasty habits if they wish.

fuming posted...

but adults should be able to partake in nasty habits if they wish.

Nope.

Unlike alcohol cigarettes have direct medical effect on people in your vicinity.

Should be illegal.

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You literally want to bring back prohibition despite the fact it failed completely and actually created organized crime, lol.

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It's amazing how some of the staunchest leftists in this topic start sounding like libertarian poster children the second the government restricts something they don't want them to.
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I'm surprised at how much support there is here for banning all cigarettes, especially considering that pretty much everyone here supports marijuana legalization. What makes cigarettes so awful that they need to be completely illegal?
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Always with the attacks, never with an actual argument, Kev.

If you actually think tobacco is worth banning (and I wouldnt complain if it was!), fucking ban it all, dont target the specific type that the most over-policed population in our country uses.

This isnt complicated.

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No one is policing the population. Its not illegal to smoke whatever products you might have.

Banning sales is not the same as criminalizing possession. At all.
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Another Eric Garner is going to happen over a dude selling loosies he mentholated himself, all while cigarettes are still legal.

So stupid.

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If only the sale of menthols hadn't been banned, there'd be nothing on which to trump up false charges!
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Xeybozn posted...

I'm surprised at how much support there is here for banning all cigarettes, especially considering that pretty much everyone here supports marijuana legalization. What makes cigarettes so awful that they need to be completely illegal?

Second hand Marijuana isn't a thing.

Well I mean technically it could be, but not in actual execution, and not with the same hazards.

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Tony is definitely a smoker, right?

Im not, actually.

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Xeybozn posted...

What makes cigarettes so awful that they need to be completely illegal?

Harmful smoke.

It literally hurts everyone in your vicinity who breathes it in.

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That is kind of surprising.

Anyway your argument is definitely coming down to being angry at the government for disproportionately helping minorities. Its baffling, tbh.

Leafeon13N posted...

Its baffling

It's Tony.

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Leafeon13N posted...

at the government for disproportionately helping minorities.

lol

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

people who think black people specifically cant help themselves, as opposed to all legal cigarette smokers

I mean I was jokingly exaggerating but you legitimately believe this.

Thats scary!

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Tony going full antimask mandate on us.

But you're just attacking not arguing it's not fair!!!
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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Lol ok, Im not having an argument with people who think black people specifically cant help themselves, as opposed to all legal cigarette smokers

You didn't really just use the "Durr, you're the REAL racists for thinking black people can't help themselves/overcome obstacles!" argument, did you

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Are you guys fucking with me rn??

This is like if Biden passed a mask mandate for only neighborhoods that are 90% black.

Technically, the health of black people would be improved if it was followed, but the reality is that it targets a minority of the overall population but the majority of THAT population is black people.


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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Im not having an argument

I've been bamboozled

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I don't really have a hard opinion on this, but I do think it's more nuanced than either side is making it out to be here.

I think in an ideal world I'd side with "Anything that reduces cigarette use is likely to be on the net-good side" but it's not an ideal world so it gets more thorny than that. I'd have to do more research/listening to really develop an opinion I'd be comfortable putting out there and arguing in defense of.

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I mean, menthol cigarettes are objectively bad. There's literally no positive to them. They're an additive intended to make it easier to smoke so that people start smoking sooner and stick with it. A complete cigarette ban is tougher to achieve and not nearly as widely accepted by the public, but bans against particular additives are popular and still help get at the problem better than doing absolutely nothing at all.

You're the one that came running in with "THIS IS RACIST"

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kevwaffles posted...

Banning sales is not the same as criminalizing possession. At all.

Banning sales creates contraband, contraband creates a black market. It's not gonna be the cigarette companies taking the criminal penalties here! Tony's comparison to prohibition is pretty accurate.

In fact I don't see how this hurts the tobacco industry much at all. They apparently will still be able to be sold for two years (aka, unload their stock and not lose any money). So this is just a quick fix (that is not really even a fix for anything) instead of doing anything substantial.

So to recap, if you are celebrating because "fuck cigarette companies" they're not being hurt. If you're celebrating because of public health concerns...I mean you could just ban public smoking for the same effect. And I'm skeptical that it will substantially reduce the amount of addicts though I could be wrong. Not sure how the vaping ban went. I just don't see any reason to praise this decision and I think the concern it's going to do more harm than good is reasonable.

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Does Tony somehow not realize that minorities can still buy cigarettes like everyone else here?