Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 372: Greene New Deal

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ChaosTonyV4
04/23/21 1:38:29 PM
#1:


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/marjorie-taylor-greene-aoc-stupid-b1836169.html

Marjorie Taylor Greene says AOC agreed to debate her on the Green New Deal.

She also implies she hasn't even read it yet.

God I hate her.

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HeroDelTiempo17
04/23/21 1:47:46 PM
#2:


ChaosTonyV4 posted...
Marjorie Taylor Greene says AOC agreed to debate her on the Green New Deal.

popcorn.gif

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xp1337
04/23/21 2:35:58 PM
#3:


She says AOC agreed to it but I think she's trying to speak it into existence. AFAIK, when asked, AOC's office hasn't said anything about it. Which is the right call. Don't give any attention to her, it's what she wants.

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fuming
04/23/21 2:45:28 PM
#4:


I think that is probably a situation where there is nothing to gain from the debate for AOC, and nobody would learn anything because it wouldn't be a debate about the GND specifics, but about one side saying we need a GND and the other saying climate change isn't real. So yeah, it would just be something that raises MTG's profile.
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RaidenGarai
04/23/21 4:46:16 PM
#5:


AOC has nothing to gain from that.

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FFDragon
04/23/21 5:06:55 PM
#6:


No one has anything to gain from interacting with mtg ever

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ChaosTonyV4
04/24/21 5:35:56 PM
#7:


https://twitter.com/jeremysmiles/status/1386040297289826307?s=21

Elon Musk is gonna host SNL

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LordoftheMorons
04/24/21 6:00:52 PM
#8:


Ugh

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NFUN
04/24/21 6:02:56 PM
#9:


Honestly unsure if this will taint SNL or Musk more

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Mr Lasastryke
04/24/21 6:23:24 PM
#10:


man, that recent david dobrik sketch was among the funniest things SNL has ever done. too bad they had to follow it up with this terrible decision.

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kevwaffles
04/24/21 6:36:13 PM
#11:


I can think of worse SNL hosts than Elon Musk.
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masterplum
04/25/21 9:36:14 PM
#12:


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Forceful_Dragon
04/25/21 9:46:52 PM
#13:


Is that climate image from post 500 real?


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UshiromiyaEva
04/25/21 11:40:59 PM
#14:


@TheRock1525 just letting you know Tony made the topic.

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KamikazePotato
04/25/21 11:44:33 PM
#15:




Reposting from the #500 post of the last topic

Fucking what

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ChaosTonyV4
04/26/21 12:02:25 AM
#16:



I couldnt help but notice this part.

They're STILL crying about the election certification??

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Suprak the Stud
04/26/21 12:03:09 AM
#17:


Here's how Trump can still win!

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red13n
04/26/21 12:55:59 AM
#18:


They are going to cry for the next 4 years.

More than that if they lose again.

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fuming
04/26/21 1:09:14 AM
#19:


NFUN posted...
Honestly unsure if this will taint SNL or Musk more

anyone who holds a high opinion of either by this point is already alien to me
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Mr Lasastryke
04/26/21 4:31:58 AM
#20:


the thing i want to know about that pic is: where does the obsession of conservatives with "globalists" come from? like, how did it start?

i used to think this was just a random thing vlado always rambled about but now i'm seeing it all over the place.

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Leafeon13N
04/26/21 5:24:09 AM
#21:


Mr Lasastryke posted...


i used to think this was just a random thing vlado always rambled about but now i'm seeing it all over the place.
It was.

But the paid trolls like vlado work and we know the trump campaign corroborated with Russia which at this point basically means the entire Republican hand is in on that.

Propaganda works, and such.
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LordoftheMorons
04/26/21 7:44:10 AM
#22:


https://twitter.com/ap_politics/status/1386376096753594374?s=21

Very cool

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Peace___Frog
04/26/21 11:58:19 AM
#23:


https://twitter.com/SCOTUSblog/status/1386674718015692805?s=19

I'm sure our current court, which is made up of the finest legal minds of our generation, will be able to approach this case with the nuance it deserves

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Jakyl25
04/26/21 3:13:23 PM
#24:


@ChaosTonyV4

Got a letter from Biden checking to see if the stimulus check was delivered

He explained it in the letter as with this $1400 direct payment, added to the $600 from December, this is $2000 in COVID-19 relief, fulfilling the promise I made to the American people.

Bullshit sir
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ChaosTonyV4
04/26/21 3:23:42 PM
#25:


Lmao love when 30% of your promise is delivered by the past President

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Forceful_Dragon
04/26/21 3:32:50 PM
#26:


yes let's all conveniently forget that the alternative was the $0 that the GOP was trying to deliver because it "wasn't necessary" and it was like pulling fucking teeth to get $600 in december

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ChaosTonyV4
04/26/21 3:41:03 PM
#27:


You dont have to do that, you know.

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kevwaffles
04/26/21 5:54:00 PM
#28:


I mean if you can keep whining about the same thing we can keep pointing out why it's asinine.
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kevwaffles
04/26/21 5:56:07 PM
#29:


I also find that letter odd because my check didn't even have Biden's name on it like the $600 one still did with Trump.
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Forceful_Dragon
04/26/21 5:58:09 PM
#30:


In this case I think the letter is actually to make people aware that the funds were sent so they can take action if they didn't receive it.

I took several calls today from people who just got their letter about EIP#3, but didn't receive EIP#3. So they call in and then I can start the process of tracing their payment.

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kevwaffles
04/26/21 6:00:50 PM
#31:


I mean that it came with a campaign-ish message at all. I'm sure that's the main point of it.
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ChaosTonyV4
04/26/21 6:19:42 PM
#32:


kevwaffles posted...
I mean if you can keep whining about the same thing we can keep pointing out why it's asinine.

I was responding to a post I was literally tagged in.

"Someone says a thing they don't like, I've gotta point out it could be worse!" is basically the worst guy. Don't be that guy.


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fuming
04/26/21 6:24:31 PM
#33:


kevwaffles posted...
I mean if you can keep whining about the same thing we can keep pointing out why it's asinine.

sorry, whats asinine is continually responding to any criticism of the dems with better than the GOP! when the person criticizing them knows and agrees with that already.
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Leafeon13N
04/26/21 6:29:59 PM
#34:


I've seen leftists vehemently argue they should have indefinitely delayed the stimulus over this which would have put a lot more people homeless and out of work with no real plan to gain from this.

So it could have been worse on that side too.
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kevwaffles
04/26/21 6:45:45 PM
#35:


fuming posted...
kevwaffles posted...
I mean if you can keep whining about the same thing we can keep pointing out why it's asinine.

sorry, whats asinine is continually responding to any criticism of the dems with better than the GOP! when the person criticizing them knows and agrees with that already.

I mean if that's all that were being said, you might have...half a point.
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kevwaffles
04/26/21 6:50:48 PM
#36:


ChaosTonyV4 posted...
kevwaffles posted...
I mean if you can keep whining about the same thing we can keep pointing out why it's asinine.

I was responding to a post I was literally tagged in.

"Someone says a thing they don't like, I've gotta point out it could be worse!" is basically the worst guy. Don't be that guy.


Actually even worse is the guy who wants to be able to say whatever he wants without any criticism ever, which is repeatedly your playbook.
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ChaosTonyV4
04/26/21 6:55:48 PM
#37:


lol I'm perfectly open to criticism, but frequently it's this false binary "Well the alternative is Republicans!!" like there are only two options in any discussion.

If you want to criticize my positions without attacking me or trying to shut it down with "it could be even worse!", feel free, but I don't think you've ever done that.

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fuming
04/26/21 6:59:39 PM
#38:


kevwaffles posted...
I mean if that's all that were being said, you might have...half a point.

what else were being said?
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xp1337
04/26/21 7:27:50 PM
#39:


jfc

https://twitter.com/JasonSCampbell/status/1386685340522536961

It's so racist and revisionist history it almost leads him to an actual point if he stopped and thought about what he just said.

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LordoftheMorons
04/26/21 7:29:21 PM
#40:


https://twitter.com/nate_cohn/status/1386778086277062667?s=21

Anticipated, but this sucks

Also NY apparently lost out on a House seat to MN by 89 people

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xp1337
04/26/21 7:38:15 PM
#41:


Oh, since we had been talking about CBP and children at the border and how the Biden admin was taking action but all the bureaucracy meant shit probably wouldn't actually get moving until April...

https://twitter.com/ReichlinMelnick/status/1386796196816211973

Unaccompanied children in CBP custody has dropped 75% in just under a month. Still 1,368 too many but it was 5,767 on March 28.

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Leafeon13N
04/26/21 7:40:11 PM
#42:


Anyway something bugging me lately has been a lack of direction from those on the far left about how to get where they want to go.

Was having a lengthy discussion on twitter the other day about how money in politics and how the growing wage gap basically makes it near impossible to combat big business in politics since opposing forces can literally just buy publicity.

The dude comes out and says at the end basically, "Well i have a solution, socialism".

Missed the whole point. Like, great, socialism, I'm on board. But you missed a step. Where you want to go is not a plan to get there. Because if your plan starts at socialism, you basically are asking for immediate violent revolution. I mean, it is definitely on the table, but I would wager most people are not up for that.
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Mr Lasastryke
04/26/21 7:47:10 PM
#43:


Leafeon13N posted...
Because if your plan starts at socialism, you basically are asking for immediate violent revolution.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r94vuvwUSkY

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ChaosTonyV4
04/26/21 7:57:21 PM
#44:


Leafeon13N posted...
Anyway something bugging me lately has been a lack of direction from those on the far left about how to get where they want to go.

You want a hypothetical dream scenario or you want something realistic?

My realistic view is that as long as self-identifying "progressives" get angry at Leftists for criticizing Democrats, there literally is no path.

The levers of control are firmly in the hands of our two party system, and there is no way to actually form a "Leftist Party" (or for Leftists to take over the Democratic Party) when there is a large contingent of Democrats who think actually doing wildly popular things like passing Single Payer or ending all foreign wars will enrage the Right and backfire**.

Yes, this is the same logic I have for banning all guns but in reverse, this is not lost on me. Our political system is anti-nuance and continuously forces these kinds of dissonant positions.

**I firmly believe there are more people that support those ideas than don't, but the apathy and media propaganda is strong enough to prevent them from coming together. My evidence is all the people in the Primary who said "Yeah I like everything Bernie stands for, but I think we need Joe to win".

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Jakyl25
04/26/21 8:10:05 PM
#45:


Forceful_Dragon posted...
In this case I think the letter is actually to make people aware that the funds were sent so they can take action if they didn't receive it.

I took several calls today from people who just got their letter about EIP#3, but didn't receive EIP#3. So they call in and then I can start the process of tracing their payment.


Yes I agree that the main purpose of the letter was fine

I just thought it was weird how he included a passage trying to logic his way into saying I kept my promise when he did not.

If $1400 is the best he could do then Im fine with him admitting that he tried his best to keep his promise but for now thats what the reality is. But dont lie to me.

Yes I realize Im making that request to a career politician
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Leafeon13N
04/26/21 10:53:46 PM
#46:


ChaosTonyV4 posted...


You want a hypothetical dream scenario or you want something realistic?
I think you are missing the point. The dude offered a hypothetical dream scenario instead of anything resembling a path forward.

And look. I'm not against you here, the whole crux of the discussion at the time was about how the income inequality in this country has grown so large that actually in actuality any attempted movement left will be met with an insurmountable media blitz that will sway the actual law to the other side(see: uber/lyft).

I think you are misunderstanding that i was having an argument with the dude, which i was not. There was a third party here that came asking for a solution, and the guy answered socialism. He was convinced this was some theoretical answer to breaking the US political system...which just isn't true. It is an end goal but he had no clue on how to achieve any sort of a path to get there.

(I did get it clarified that he was not implying he wanted immediate violent revolution, because at least that is somewhere in the realm of actionable. You'll get stomped and massacred, but its a thing).
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ChaosTonyV4
04/26/21 11:27:56 PM
#47:


Leafeon13N posted...
I think you are missing the point. The dude offered a hypothetical dream scenario instead of anything resembling a path forward.


ChaosTonyV4 posted...
My realistic view is that as long as self-identifying "progressives" get angry at Leftists for criticizing Democrats, there literally is no path.

I didnt miss the point, I said all we have are hypothetical dream scenarios. The reason its difficult to come up with actionable plans is because they rely on people like, well, you, buying in.

If I say things like the Democratic Party controlled House and Senate pass Single Payer, or Joe Biden immediately deschedule drugs like Marijuana, or Joe Biden pull out troops out of foreign countries, youre going to immediately ask what to do about Republicans, and my answer is fuck em, but thats not good enough.

So we go for the dreams, because its all just talking for fun anyway.

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fuming
04/27/21 12:50:35 AM
#48:


Its kind of a weird criticism. The far left attacked for, say, criticizing the dems for failing to get a $15 minimum wage. Something that was promised by a party with control of every branch of government. Why not the concern over how the centrists in power (in a generous reading of their goals) failed to accomplish their goals? And if the answer is that they had gop opposition and not enough dem votes... why is an even more extreme minority expected to have actionable plans beyond trying to continue trying to build support and organize? We live in the imperial core of a fervently anti communist country. All socialist goals are very far off. The biggest leftist organization in the country has like 100k members. Achieving socialist goals is impossible without collective action, and Americans are alienated, lacking class consciousness, organization, and heavily individualist and lacking the ability to conceive of action outside of electoral politics. If you are a socialist in the US you should be prepared to plant trees whose shade you know youll never sit in.
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Leafeon13N
04/27/21 2:26:33 AM
#49:


ChaosTonyV4 posted...
The reason its difficult to come up with actionable plans is because they rely on people like, well, you, buying in.
I dont buy into fucking over people in the short term for a long term goal you dont have a plan to actually execute.

I dont know what you think i dont buy into, but if your including the times you are advocating to let people starve for a goal you aren't going to accomplish anyway, no I'm not going to support those positions.
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red13n
04/27/21 3:35:50 AM
#50:


Anyway you two missed the larger point. Which is that there are people on the far left tend to be really unfocused and don't have any idea of what they actually need to do to get any of the things they want, or even move towards the goalpost. This leads to a lot of being angry at everything but not much actual action to make any progress towards the future you want to make. Whining a lot doesn't bring progress, especially when your whining hits the point that the average person doesn't even see it as reasonable anymore. It never is going to be about the end goal, the end goal is nice, but you need to find some way to make your future seem appealing, and actually feed it into the masses.

So many times people on the left are "why didnt you do this" when the end result of "this" typically is a big shift to the right, which makes no goddamn sense(If your an accelerationist, it is a nice way of saying you are a moron, tbh). This would be the "let Manchin burn for the $600 checks take" where Manchin has nothing to lose kills the bill and everyone to the left loses. And yes, those people exist. There was a huge twitter outcry of people that thought Manchin would be the one to take the fall for killing that bill. This ignores the reality where Manchin is going to lose his seat anyway and is literally just an unhinged asshole trying to fool people into thinking hes a Republican with a D next to his name. The only people with something to lose are, you know, the people actually hurting the most in this pandemic.

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