Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 372: Greene New Deal

(+) Yeah! (+)

xp1337 posted...

wow didn't know the board 8 golf defense force was this strong

I'm not. Console and console games aren't cheap either - I would bet money on over half of this board being upper-middle-class.

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CaptainOfCrush posted...

I'm not trying to start a fight, but does this mean that the budget options for a day of golfing would run someone $35-45? That's very expensive for a major sport, especially before factoring in equipment purchases.

Other sports that have traditionally had their own financial barriers to entry - like tennis and swimming - have tons of free options. I've never heard of a free golf course.

Obviously, the argument isn't that golf is completely exclusive to rich people, but that its prohibitive cost make it much more likely for rich people to take it up as a hobby, and that alone makes it more difficult for the middle-class and poor to do the same (because the rich won't want them around).

You have to remember that playing a round of golf can take 4-5 hours on a busy day. I don't think $40 is an unreasonable amount of money for that.

There's also plenty of courses that are less than that, especially if you only want to play 9 holes. I grew up playing pitch and putt and par 3 courses where you only needed a few clubs and it cost $10 to play.

KamikazePotato posted...

This is out of like half the country's price range if they want to be able to pay rent and buy food and save an emergency fund in case anything goes bad.

I would imagine A LOT of entertainment/hobbies for people in that boat is out of reach.

Anyway, I don't mean to get so fired up over this, lol! I just like golf quite a bit, have played with all manners of people, and I think it is and can be more accessible than people believe once you break out of the mindset that all is golf hoity-toity, rich country club members paying $10k/year in dues.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

No one missed the point, we just disagree that he should do the Lets cooperate song and dance at all.

He just doesn't want to cooperate with extremist conservatives. Unfortunately it seems like Biden is thinking of a completely different kind of Republican compared to what the party has become.

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https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1390743246599557136?s=21

Abolish the death penalty.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1390743246599557136?s=21

Abolish the death penalty.

Without the death penalty, wouldn't all the innocent people we execute just end up spending their whole life in prison anyway? In a lot of these cases (including this one), the police are sitting on exculpatory evidence the whole time; there's no way they'd let that stuff get out while the "criminal" is still alive. On top of that, people won't work anywhere near as hard to prove innocence in non-death penalty cases.
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yes but also you're not murdering an innocent person so

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Xeybozn posted...

Without the death penalty, wouldn't all the innocent people we execute just end up spending their whole life in prison anyway? In a lot of these cases (including this one), the police are sitting on exculpatory evidence the whole time; there's no way they'd let that stuff get out while the "criminal" is still alive. On top of that, people won't work anywhere near as hard to prove innocence in non-death penalty cases.

The idea that without the death penalty, defense attorneys won't work as hard (and really most of this post) is just an indictment of our entire legal system

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Of course they'll focus most on the task that is the most pressing. That's the same as any job ever. That fact alone doesn't actually justify the task's existence, either.
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Don't defense attorneys... still not want to lose cases cause it makes them look bad?

PerfectChaosZ posted...

Don't defense attorneys... still not want to lose cases cause it makes them look bad?

I was thinking more about after the initial trial. Death penalty cases usually trigger mandatory appeal processes (hence why so many death row inmates are in prison for decades before their execution). It's harder and more expensive for defendants to appeal if they're not facing the death penalty.

I do agree with everyone pointing out that this thinking is just more evidence of our justice system not working, though.
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https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMebNonX9/

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People will always find ways to justify and paint their hobbies in the best possible light

But that's life. People spend money on things that make them happy.

Golf and skiing are wealthy people hobbies, full stop. It doesn't matter if some people can play on a budget. You're participating in a wealthy subculture if you golf

It doesn't matter if "it's not as expensive as owning a boat". being for wealthy people doesn't have to be something you get defensive about

No matter how reasonable golf is compared to going to the movies or whatever, it's still infinitely more expensive than playing soccer or basketball

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https://twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/1390789903412338694

Just came out that the Trump DOJ secretly obtained the phone records of Washington Post reporters over their reporting of Russia's role in the 2016 election. Tried to get their email records too.

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banananor posted...

People will always find ways to justify and paint their hobbies in the best possible light

But that's life. People spend money on things that make them happy.

Golf and skiing are wealthy people hobbies, full stop. It doesn't matter if some people can play on a budget. You're participating in a wealthy subculture if you golf

It doesn't matter if "it's not as expensive as owning a boat". being for wealthy people doesn't have to be something you get defensive about

No matter how reasonable golf is compared to going to the movies or whatever, it's still infinitely more expensive than playing soccer or basketball

lmao Alright, I'll let some of my friends know about this wealthy subculture they're participating in.

It's not even being defensive at this point. It's just sense dude. Are we participating in a wealthy subculture because we play video games? Or is the line here between wealthy subculture purchasing anything more than a ball? Just because wealthy people have a hobby they can throw a lot more money into doesn't mean the entire hobby is for wealthy people. You can spend a ridiculous amount of money on almost any hobby.

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Are you... Trying to shame people for liking golf? Should we be shaming people for liking seafood and dry aged steaks too?

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Like honestly, a couple of my friends would have to either bow out of golf because they didn't have the money to play it and I would pay for them just so they could go, or they would actively have to save money in order to go. And these were at cheap-moderately priced courses. They got their clubs from their dad or a friend, and they played better than me a lot of times. Another friend of mine bought his clubs off of a neighbor on the cheap.

Miss me with this "Oh, they're engaging in a part of this wealthy subculture." That was a hobby we shared that we loved to do together, and they made it work. It's like if they had to budget to buy a new video game they were looking forward to.

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I mean that really isn't different then when people have annual passes to theme parks or anything else

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I think the point is that there is a sub group of people who don't HAVE to budget and make sacrifices to participate in whichever activity strikes their fancy.

And for some people it is an attainable sacrifice that can be budgeted for, but for a not insignificant number of participants it's something they can do just because they want to without having to consider the cost or resource allocation behind it.

It doesn't make it impossible for lower income people to get involved, but that aspect to it affects the culture you associate with the sport.

.

It's almost (but not exactly) like saying "Black people can be successful too, just look how wealthy Beyonc is". The exception does *not* prove the rule false which is why the expression is "the exception to prove the rule".

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I guess my question is ....and? I feel like at any income level up to ultra rich there are activities people with less money can't do.

Private Yachting can only be done by multimillionaires for instance. Your puny $200,000 salary isn't good enough.

Don't see why golf is remotely different


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masterplum posted...

Private Yachting can only be done by multimillionaires for instance. Your puny $200,000 salary isn't good enough.

Don't see why golf is remotely different

In fairness, I think everybody here who thinks golf is an elitist rich person activity would also agree that yachting is an elitist rich person activity.
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Golf as a hobby is more common among affluent people. That gives it the perception of being a 'rich' sport regardless of if there are ways for less well off people to participate. I think perception of what a sport is, is what classifies it's station in society.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1390743246599557136?s=21

Abolish the death penalty.

At a news conference on Tuesday, Gov. Asa Hutchinson defended Mr. Lees execution. Its my duty to carry out the law, he said, adding that the fact is that the jury found him guilty based upon the information that they had.

jfc

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Golf definitely has a perception issue but also it only really starts at the hobby level. And all sports get expensive that way. No one is going to say football, baseball, soccer, etc. are "elitist" because you can always pick up a ball and play, but if you start to compete in local leagues or whatever you're gonna be shelling out a lot of cash for equipment and gear. The closest golf has to "casual" play is like...putting and driving ranges and I don't think that's what people are going to consider as "golf."

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https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/05/liberals-covid-19-science-denial-lockdown/618780/

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Yeah I found thats definitely a thing. I was listening to a tech podcast I like, and they had an expert on for an episode about COVID a couple weeks ago, and the fearmongering was unreal, even about vaccinated people.

Not that I dont think COVID is serious, I think it is, but if youre living in a place with barely double digit new cases and youre taking those basic precautionsand you have your vaccine, the idea that you still shouldnt leave the house is justbad!

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I don't think having an abundance of caution is the same thing as fear.

I have received both doses of Pfizer.

That means:

1) I'm not likely to contract the virus even if I'm exposed to it. Pfizer has some 95~% efficacy rate

And

2) in the low% chance I contact the virus I will not have a serious or life threatening case.

.

And that's fantastic. But that means that there is still a chance that I could be the link between the virus and an unvaccinated person. And when you consider the percentage of the population that is flat out refusing the receive the vaccination you can imagine there are still significant swaths and clusters of people who are fully susceptible to the virus. When I continue to limit my activity in public and when I continue to wear a mask I'm not doing it for myself. I'm doing it for the person I've never met before where I might be the one link in the chain that allowed the virus to reach them.

If 1/4 of the population is going to be 100% susceptible and 3/4 of the population is going to be 5% susceptible... Then it's still most important that the 1/4 is taking precaution. But the 3/4 continuing to take precautions will still have an effect and could still prevent the virus from crossing from one group of unvaccinated people to another.

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i was never leaving the house before it was cool

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masterplum posted...

Are you... Trying to shame people for liking golf? Should we be shaming people for liking seafood and dry aged steaks too?

If you're so negative and self concious about your personal life (or lack thereof) to try and go after people for liking golf, you need to evaluate what you're doing with your life.

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perhaps the least self-aware post i've ever seen here

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wow our golf conversation really was prescient

cancel culture coming for the kentucky derby

https://twitter.com/Mediaite/status/1391765065179746306

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How is a horse failing a drug test part of Cancel Culture?

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https://twitter.com/byheatherlong/status/1391814495564144640?s=21

What qualifies as a suitable job? If he wants to do a big dick move, pass an EO that defines it as $15 an hour.

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Yeah that's one of those phrases that offers a lot of wiggle room. Is cashiering at McDonald's a "suitable job" for a 60-year-old who was making 100k before Covid?

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Biden can do that but he cant stop my governor from taking away the presidents own already allocated unemployment benefits from people who do qualify.

Man, some awful shit is happening in Palestine.

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https://twitter.com/nyt_diff/status/1391786657536483330?s=19

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CaptainOfCrush posted...

Yeah that's one of those phrases that offers a lot of wiggle room. Is cashiering at McDonald's a "suitable job" for a 60-year-old who was making 100k before Covid?

Fun Fact!: McDonalds reports everyone currently on unemployment to try revoking their unemployment benefits from them if they don't take their shitty fry cooking positions for minimum wage for 10 hours a week.

Just outstanding stuff when people are currently fighting back against being paid and treated like shit at these minimum wage jobs and businesses are finally being pressured into actually treating their employees like humans.

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https://twitter.com/jakesherman/status/1391829349096116226?s=21

We are a big tent party, which is why were going to purge someone for not sticking to the party line of absolute fealty to a single narcissist and his lies that almost got us murdered by a stampede of insurrectionists

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There has to be some way to stop this bull of the governor of South Carolina taking away on a whim in two seconds the $300 unemployment benefits that took several months and votes to get done.

I wouldn't mind them doing it, if it actually cost them politically. But the voters won't care, they'll keep voting in the same morons who'd let them starve than a democrat.

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PerfectChaosZ posted...

There has to be some way to stop this bull of the governor of South Carolina taking away on a whim in two seconds the $300 unemployment benefits that took several months and votes to get done.

I don't believe there is.

states rights

to punish their citizens in pursuit of political ideology

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south carolina really has a terrible history when invoking states rights

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Man, some awful shit is happening in Palestine.

from our likely soon-to-be nyc mayor: https://twitter.com/AndrewYang/status/1391897869137887234

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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Fun Fact!: McDonalds reports everyone currently on unemployment to try revoking their unemployment benefits from them if they don't take their shitty fry cooking positions for minimum wage for 10 hours a week.

Aren't they only reporting people who apply for a job there and then refuse to take it? The story I saw on this was about a McD's offering to pay people for job interviews, then reporting them afterwards for declining the job. That's scummy of the McD's, but it's also scummy of the people applying with no intention of taking the job. And since legally people on unemployment aren't allowed to turn down any job offers, they really should have seen it coming.
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I will be the first to admit that I don't fully understand the dynamics going on over there, but I saw a video of Israeli police lighting up a mosque with grenades and rubber bullets on people during Ramadan so... I don't think it's that simple.

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FFDragon posted...

I will be the first to admit that I don't fully understand the dynamics going on over there, but I saw a video of Israeli police lighting up a mosque with grenades and rubber bullets on people during Ramadan so... I don't think it's that simple.

Reporting still seems to be a work in progress as far as I can tell, but the barebones version I'm seeing is that Israel is forcing Palestinians out of their homes in East Jersulaem and deployed a strong police presence in response to the beyond-obvious protests that resulted. (This started before the weekend)

Then I'm seeing reports that both sides started firing missiles at each other. Yang is, presumably, referring only to the ones fired by armed Palestinian groups while conspicuously saying not a word about Israel firing missiles into Gaza, the deaths as a result of that, nor the underlying resettlement situation which is horrific.

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Yeah that's gross. It's sad maybe but I trust El Generico as an authority on this matter

https://twitter.com/SamiZayn/status/1391910305203113998?s=20

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The mayoral race really has Yang repeatedly sinking to new lows, huh.

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https://twitter.com/mikeabrusci/status/1391782098051153926?s=21

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cdrtnPNero

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