Board 8 > whats happening with the pokemon tcg (and other tcgs) is making me sad [sadfaqs]

(+) Yeah! (+)

• youtubers who dont care about pokemon open boxes for views, emphasizing only the rare cards and their worth
• scalpers see the rare cards, buy out all the stock, which is already very low due to the pandemic (wtf https://twitter.com/GumpySZN/status/1365167830384054272)
• side bullet point: they buy out mcdonalds happy meals (https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2021/02/ scalpers_and_collectors_buy_up_mcdonalds_pokemon_happy_meals), they even steal entire mcdonald boxes of cards. kids cant get cards in their freaking happy meals
• more cards on ebay than in the hands of people who actually play it
• sad kid stories
• angry kid stories (https://twitter.com/defensive_basti/status/1371561912043982849)

come be outraged with me

---

https://www.facebook.com/digimontcgen/posts/260839005757369

like digimon had to make a statement about it

---

Scalpers are garbage

---

Isn't this really easy for manufacturers to solve?

If scalpers are buying everything out, just print more

---

banananor posted...

Isn't this really easy for manufacturers to solve?

If scalpers are buying everything out, just print more

They have no incentive to do this. Demand creates demand.

---

I don't understand how it's even possible for there to be a speculative market on this all of a sudden

Shouldn't the insane influx of cards on ebay totally crash the market in a matter of days

Yeah, Im annoyed at this. I collect Pokemon TCG casually, in that I normally buy a few things per set (basically anything with a Gen 1 Pokemon on it) and I havent been able to get any Shining Fates or Battle Styles stuff. Probably saved me a lot of money though, since I have stacks of cards I dont want, but cant be bothered to sell from the last two or three years.

---

This seems like an excellent topic to ask a question about selling Pokemon cards (okay it's inappropriate but you guys know more about this than I do so help me out if you can). My mom cleaned out her closet recently and found a still-sealed Starter Gift Set she bought forever ago and forgot about. If there's a Pokemon card boom going on right now I guess this is the time to get sell it. Is just throwing it on Ebay the way to go? It's this one, for reference

https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Original_TCG_Series_merchandise#Starter_Gift_Set
---

Roba you should sell it on a site with a community that collects these cards rather than risk getting scammed on ebay

anyway on topic, the card bubble will pop once these scalpers realize nobody is going to pay their prices for fucking holographic cardboard and they're stuck with hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of cardboard

---

GranzonEx posted...

anyway on topic, the card bubble will pop once these scalpers realize nobody is going to pay their prices for fucking holographic cardboard and they're stuck with hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of cardboard

This is what people said about MTG reserve list cards, and yet sellers keep buying them to relist them higher, and collectors (as well as more sellers) keep paying these prices. You have cards that were $15 five years ago at over $400 now, or cards that were $50 five years ago, at over $1000 now, and they all still have active completed sales at that price regularly.

---

I don't know anything about MTG but for YGO Konami makes so many products a year that eventually these scalpers will have trouble keeping so much inventory. They might be able to hoard older booster boxes and get dumb youtubers to buy them though.

---

red13n posted...

They have no incentive to do this. Demand creates demand.

this makes little sense to me

they're selling a set number of units at a set price. they don't make any additional money if people are scalping it

in mtg, they print sets on demand while they're still in rotation. this is why lorwyn is so expensive. it's not that the cards are that great, it's just that few were printed because nobody was buying it

they do the same for commander decks. they always end up being sold for MSRP because they just keep printing more until nobody orders more

so either magic or pokemon is doing it wrong

---

this feels like a thread where we need Sir Chris' input

---

banananor posted...

they're selling a set number of units at a set price. they don't make any additional money if people are scalping it

They are selling the inventory to the scalpers.

If they put more inventory out so people don't have to go to scalpers, they lose the sales from the scalpers.

And keep in mind, scalpers aren't just buying enough to fund their customers. They can afford to buy more inventory because they are selling at what is often a huge markup. They can actually afford to not sell all of their inventory they've bought out.

---

the companies will realize the scalping is killing their games soon enough

people stop playing your game because they can't afford to keep up with the meta, eventually these companies will need to increase their output

---

They've actually addressed the issue with Pokemon and said they'd be printing more

The problem is what red touched on. Scalpers are buying them all up regardless of what stock they already have, because they sell them at such a huge markup that they can afford to just sit on the stuff for awhile if they have to.

---

red13n posted...

They are selling the inventory to the scalpers.

If they put more inventory out so people don't have to go to scalpers, they lose the sales from the scalpers.

And keep in mind, scalpers aren't just buying enough to fund their customers. They can afford to buy more inventory because they are selling at what is often a huge markup. They can actually afford to not sell all of their inventory they've bought out.

I guess if literally every retailer is colluding then there is nothing left to do. Surprised there isn't at least one online retailer willing to break the line and order more

If what you're saying is true, it sounds like a bubble waiting to burst

---

Also I feel like there's SO GODDAMN MANY Pokemon cards now that they should just flood the market with enough circulation to circumvent this problem.

I have a hard time blaming people trying to make money with this when the company itself can easily solve the issue.

---

ExThaNemesis posted...

Also I feel like there's SO GODDAMN MANY Pokemon cards now that they should just flood the market with enough circulation to circumvent this problem.

I have a hard time blaming people trying to make money with this when the company itself can easily solve the issue.

It's not that easily solved, though. Not when scalpers regularly only have to sell 25-33% of their stock to break even. They literally just keep buying and buying so that people have to buy from them.

---

Like, they've increased production and it has just resulted in scalpers buying more, because there's no way to actually stop them unless the retail stores themselves do it, which they're not. Scalpers aren't worried about sitting on product because they mark them up so high they don't have to sell very much to break even, and as human history has shown, people can't stop themselves from buying from scalpers when they have no other choice. The company producing them can attempt to flood the market, but they can only do it as much as retail will allow them. They can make all the stock they want but it's still up to the stores to order them, and right now the stores are pretty comfortable with how things are.

---

I'm reading that some of the companies are trying to print more to meet demand but theyre having trouble with that in a timely manner cause covid (for both manufacturing and freight issues). The digimon launch has been plagued with delays and lower than expected supply (I read some stores only got 2% of what they were promised). They could improve on the communication of this, but it does sound like they want to fulfill the minimum ask and aren't even able to meet that under their own release date.

Also bots. Outside of tcgs, a friend tried to book
a cottage for the summer and all slots were picked up before a minute has passed.

---

we can't keep them in stock

and if we have them, one guy usually buys them all


---

You can always print more. Its not sustainable

---

GTM posted...

a cottage for the summer and all slots were picked up before a minute has passed.

We have a rapidly increasing wealth gap and an economy increasingly reliant on a reseller market.

There is no escape.

---

Speaking of which I have a lot of pokemon cards I'd want to sell to @DoomTheGyarados

---

TomNook posted...

This is what people said about MTG reserve list cards, and yet sellers keep buying them to relist them higher, and collectors (as well as more sellers) keep paying these prices. You have cards that were $15 five years ago at over $400 now, or cards that were $50 five years ago, at over $1000 now, and they all still have active completed sales at that price regularly.

Aren't those all old cards (20+ years) that WotC guaranteed would never be reprinted explicitly so they would maintain collector value? I don't think that's really the same situation.
---

Team Rocket Elite posted...

Aren't those all old cards (20+ years) that WotC guaranteed would never be reprinted explicitly so they would maintain collector value? I don't think that's really the same situation.

Indeed. High priced magic cards not on the list have pretty much all been reprinted in some form or fashion.

Some old sealed MTG stuff is worth a bundle, but again I think thats a big difference where it isnt new sealed stuff.

From what I can tell Pokmon has a really weird bubble going on where new sealed stuff is being bought out, which really isnt sustainable or makes sense

---

red13n posted...

They have no incentive to do this. Demand creates demand.

Games Workshop finally put their foot down on this.

When scalpers bought up all the 9th edition launch boxes they took the unprecedented step of opening the box up to print on demand at the actual price, crushing the secondary market for the benefit of their actual players.

---

I think Creatures might be reluctant to print too many replacement cards for the Pokemon TCG, because I know they over-printed for some of their old sets like Steam Siege and it means that they keep including boosters for it in tins even now to get rid of them.

---

masterplum posted...

From what I can tell Pokmon has a really weird bubble going on where new sealed stuff is being bought out, which really isnt sustainable or makes sense

Not just bought out, but also selling for like double

Eddv posted...

Games Workshop finally put their foot down on this.

When scalpers bought up all the 9th edition launch boxes they took the unprecedented step of opening the box up to print on demand at the actual price, crushing the secondary market for the benefit of their actual players.

Holy shit. If Games Workshop of all companies has done this, there is no excuse left for anyone else now.


---

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWZAx59eQOs

---

still sad

---

I wonder if economists have modelled the "Bandwagon-jumping scalpers have bots autobuy literally everything" scenario of total economic collapse.
---

That's lame, was thinking of trying to find some old cards for nostalgia sake but not at these absurd prices.
Also looking at the 1st ed Fossil booster box I opened ~10 years ago really wishing I hadn't. 20k for one now?! People have gone mad.

---

BlackMageJawa posted...

I wonder if economists have modelled the "Bandwagon-jumping scalpers have bots autobuy literally everything" scenario of total economic collapse.

Its the same model stadiums and arenas use to set pricing, with less potential for backlash hurting other sectors of the business.

In those systems they can afford to leave X% of the seats empty if people are willing to pay more for the individual seats. Charging just a little bit less and filling every seat hits a point where you are just losing out on profits.

Except in stadiums that number usually they want to sell something like 80% or something.

With a rapidly rising wealth gap, scalpers now can afford to sell things for astronomical prices to the rich people where money is no issue and screw the poor people because they don't need them to make a profit. And because these are faceless scalpers making anonymous sales, they don't face any backlash that say a sports team or major franchise(Pokemon, Disney, etc) would undertake if they tried the same crap themselves.

It really isn't economic collapse, but more the result of this trickle down economics lie that has been fed to people for the last 40-50 years. Giving rich people more money just fucks poor people.

---

Also I'm not saying it isn't economic collapse in the nice sense. I mean it as in its not as if the system didn't work. It is the result of the system doing exactly what it is really intended to do.

---

More proof that social media ruined society

---

The Pokemon TCG market has gone down the absolute garbage. Logan Paul might legitimately be the worst thing to ever happen to it.

Also the meta keeps getting really terrible, but that's not really what this topic is about. >_>

I'm a judge for the TCG and play when the meta is healthy. This past year has been super boring for me because all of the official games are played online so there's no use for a judge, just TOs.

---

Sadly, Logan Paul is only legitimately the 2nd worst thing to ever happen to it.

ADP is the worst

---

Ehh I disagree with a lot of what you are saying, mostly be a lot of the youtubers fucking love pokemon. Logan Paul is awesome, the interest in pokemon is awesome.

Now what is not awesome is the bot issue, which is independent of what most of what you said. Nintendo imo did their duty in 2021 so far. They are printing heavy. People who are trying to sell the most recent set, battle styles, above msrp are mostly failing. Covid didn't help for a few previous sets. Shining fates was brutally scalped, everyone knows it, and it has nothing to do with youtube. Scalpers are assholes.

There may be youtubers who don't care about pokemon but one Logan Paul stream told me that man is not one of them. Dude loves pokemon

---

GTM posted...

ADP is the worst

Tag Teams in general might be the worst mechanics decision they've ever made.

---

DoomTheGyarados posted...

There may be youtubers who don't care about pokemon but one Logan Paul stream told me that man is not one of them. Dude loves pokemon

To clarify, I'm specifically talking about his impact on the market. Selling a box for $1m just drives up the hype in such a way no other market force can. Most spikes in retro pricing are directly caused by big publicity like he's been giving the game.

I was mostly using him as an example; it's that whole realm of big youtubers opening boxes and bragging about how much money they are worth.

---

Yeah but if you already had cards like me Logan Paul made you rich, so all hail him. Vintage stuff is fine though. There actually isn't much of a scalper market there It's just a hype revival so I am fine.

---

Yeah honestly I have an original Charizard card that increased in value like 100x so I'm sorta okay with that part of it

---

Also if anyone wants to cash out I will buy your cards. Kind of my business lol

---

I've got a binder full of a lot of the original set. Not graded or anything but they were never played with, either. I was planning on going through soon and putting the good ones in toploaders to then sell on eBay, but I can give you a list of what I've got when I go through them.

---

Don't sell on ebay. I will match average ebay prices and not chunk you on fees lol. Also I will buy all of them, evenvthe ones that don't sell for a lot by themselves. I collect binders.

---

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Logan Paul is awesome,

ok let me stop you there

---

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Also if anyone wants to cash out I will buy your cards. Kind of my business lol

If you're serious, I still have the sealed starter gift set mentioned in post 8. I've never used Ebay and I'm worried about being scammed and Ebay siding with the buyer since I'd have no other feedback. I'm just not sure what to do with it.

---