Board 8 > The Definitive Ranking Of All Cases And Characters From Danganronpa 1/2

Topic List	Page List: 1, 2, 3, 4
xp1337 03/09/21 6:09:16 PM #101:	Without looking it up, IIRC, Kyoko's dad's name is Jin. but yes admissions at hope's peak academy is crazy. then again, they were planning on (and did!) human experimentation to create "ultimate hope" so really it just wasn't a stand-up organization to begin with so maybe we shouldn't be surprised --- xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out? <cite>xp1337 posted [p:951531732] in The Defini... [t:79310930]...</cite> <quote>Without looking it up, IIRC, Kyoko's dad's name is Jin. but yes admissions at hope's peak academy is crazy. then again, they were planning on (and did!) human experimentation to create "ultimate hope" so really it just wasn't a stand-up organization to begin with so maybe we shouldn't be surprised </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Suprak the Stud 03/09/21 6:16:36 PM #102:	That finishes up the last of the characters I don't particularly like. Everyone on the list so far I have more negative opinions about than positive ones. This next upcoming tier are the characters I don't really feel much about either way. i don't dislike these characters. I don't like these characters. Most of the time they're just there, sitting around and not doing much of anything. This will be the Hearing About Someone Else's Fantasy Football Team Tier a.k.a. Stuff I Don't Really Care About But Will Tolerate Because It Is Connected To Stuff I Care About Tier. These are the more forgetable characters of the bunch. And most of them will be exactly who you are probably anticipating! M&M In A Bowl Full Of Skittles Tier: 40) Toko Fukawa 39) Ultimate Imposter Scrappy Doo Tier: 38) Teruteru Hanamura 37) Natsumi Kuzuryu 36) Hifumi Yamada 35) Sato Drinking Almond Milk When I Thought It Was Supposed To Be Regular Milk Tier: 34) Monomi 33) Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu 32) Byakuya Togami 31) Kyoko Kirigiri 30) The Headmaster Hearing About Someone Else's Fantasy Football Team Tier: 29) Coming up: Actually, my last clue could probably apply here too! --- Moops? "I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion." <cite>Suprak the Stud posted [p:951531967] in The Defini... [t:79310930]...</cite> <quote>That finishes up the last of the characters I don't particularly like. Everyone on the list so far I have more negative opinions about than positive ones. This next upcoming tier are the characters I don't really feel much about either way. i don't dislike these characters. I don't like these characters. Most of the time they're just there, sitting around and not doing much of anything. This will be the Hearing About Someone Else's Fantasy Football Team Tier a.k.a. Stuff I Don't Really Care About But Will Tolerate Because It Is Connected To Stuff I Care About Tier. These are the more forgetable characters of the bunch. And most of them will be exactly who you are probably anticipating! M&M In A Bowl Full Of Skittles Tier: 40) Toko Fukawa 39) Ultimate Imposter Scrappy Doo Tier: 38) Teruteru Hanamura 37) Natsumi Kuzuryu 36) Hifumi Yamada 35) Sato Drinking Almond Milk When I Thought It Was Supposed To Be Regular Milk Tier: 34) Monomi 33) Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu 32) Byakuya Togami 31) Kyoko Kirigiri 30) The Headmaster Hearing About Someone Else's Fantasy Football Team Tier: 29) Coming up: Actually, my last clue could probably apply here too! </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SeabassDebeste 03/09/21 6:21:17 PM #103:	oh hey, i've been way behind, but low ranking for kyoko is something i can get behind gonna read it now --- yet all azuarc of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness <cite>SeabassDebeste posted [p:951532137] in The Defini... [t:79310930]...</cite> <quote>oh hey, i've been way behind, but low ranking for kyoko is something i can get behind gonna read it now</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Suprak the Stud 03/09/21 6:24:12 PM #104:	Oh and I should do a case rankings update I suppose since I finished off the bottom tier! There are four cases I don't really like, but only two that I really, really don't like. I'll call that tier the Rotten Strawberry Tier. Ever get a carton of delicious strawberries, and in that carton is like one gross moldy strawberry that got punctured by something at some point and you want to just throw it away immediately so it doesn't ruin the rest of the strawberries? That's what case 1-5 and 2-2 were for me. We now move on to the Prequel Trilogy Tier. These cases are dumb, but I still have a strange fondness for parts of them and I'm willing to ignore some of the dumber stuff when taken in context of the series as a whole. There will be two cases in this tier as well! Rotten Strawberry Tier: 12) 1-5 11) 2-2 Prequel Trilogy Tier: 10) Coming up: The execution scene I understood the least in either game --- Moops? "I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion." <cite>Suprak the Stud posted [p:951532238] in The Defini... [t:79310930]...</cite> <quote>Oh and I should do a case rankings update I suppose since I finished off the bottom tier! There are four cases I don't really like, but only two that I really, really don't like. I'll call that tier the Rotten Strawberry Tier. Ever get a carton of delicious strawberries, and in that carton is like one gross moldy strawberry that got punctured by something at some point and you want to just throw it away immediately so it doesn't ruin the rest of the strawberries? That's what case 1-5 and 2-2 were for me. We now move on to the Prequel Trilogy Tier. These cases are dumb, but I still have a strange fondness for parts of them and I'm willing to ignore some of the dumber stuff when taken in context of the series as a whole. There will be two cases in this tier as well! Rotten Strawberry Tier: 12) 1-5 11) 2-2 Prequel Trilogy Tier: 10) Coming up: The execution scene I understood the least in either game </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Hbthebattle 03/09/21 6:30:43 PM #105:	2-3 incoming --- Congrats to azuarc for winning the GotD Guru! <cite>Hbthebattle posted [p:951532455] in The Defini... [t:79310930]...</cite> <quote>2-3 incoming </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Johnbobb 03/09/21 6:58:26 PM #106:	One of the best parts of the Game Grumps DR:THH playthrough was them making fun of Kyoko talking about her dad https://youtu.be/-rNvEN16UzM?list=PLR9AXEq1UCuB18gRMyRkjUFAcRqMv8MkE&t=795 --- Khal Kirby, warlord of the Super Star Khalasar PSN/Steam: CheddarBBQ https://goo.gl/Diw2hs <cite>Johnbobb posted [p:951533514] in The Defini... [t:79310930]...</cite> <quote>One of the best parts of the Game Grumps DR:THH playthrough was them making fun of Kyoko talking about her dad https://youtu.be/-rNvEN16UzM?list=PLR9AXEq1UCuB18gRMyRkjUFAcRqMv8MkE&t=795 </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Suprak the Stud 03/12/21 12:42:47 AM #107:	#29: Teruterus Mom Side Character Ranking: 4/8 Ultimate Ability: None Actual Ultimate Ability: Ultimate Attempt To Make You Feel Sympathetic For A Character You Hate So we come to number 29 and HEY WAIT. YOU! DONT JUST SKIP THIS WRITE UP. If there was any write-up I thought you guys might just skim over, it would be this one because Teruterus mom is literally the most inconsequential character on this list. BUT she wasnt the character I just shoehorned in to get an even 40. No no no, my friends. She was 39. That most minor, most inconsequential character to make the list is still forthcoming. I have actual thoughts on Teruterus mom. Not so much what she does in the game, of course, but rather just general timeline theory thoughts so she was a minor character I did actually want to talk about. I will say that this is sort of the demarcation point. Everyone below this spot is sub Teruterus mom, which means I actually disliked them quite a bit for me to favor this woman who shows up for roughly two minutes in the entire game. Consider every character above this to be better than a character you probably even forgot was in this game. A minor victory, but still! Thats quite a few characters I dont actively dislike, which is saying something for a game with a cast like this. I mean, honestly, I dont really like Teruterus mom. There isnt much to her and she looks like someone asked the writers to come up with a list of lines for generic strong mom and this is what we got. But I also dont dislike her and I think her character is actually somewhat interesting, especially when taking in context of Teruteru. The mom here loses some points for being associated with Teruteru. Anyone who raised this pervert had to have done something wrong. Sure, she seems sweet, but there is no way she didnt notice him fondling the dumplings and she never told him to stop, is what Im saying. She does come across as a good mom though, at the very least. She is letting Teruteru go and pursue his dreams even though she could clearly use his help around the diner. It isnt too often we get a supportive parent shot in these games, so her character stands out all the more because of it. Something about being a good parent resonates with me right now for some reason, and even in her short time you can tell she loves her son and wants him to succeed. That sort of emotion is in short supply in this game, so her little ray of sunshine doesnt go completely unnoticed. She is slightly saccharine, and like I said while playing it that whole Moms are strong line gave me flashbacks to the corny line from FFXIII that everyone made fun of. Anyway, there isnt much else to say about Teruterus mom and her four lines, so lets get into theories while I have some time to ramble. A theory that I do like is that Teruteru murders his own mother after joining team despair. In 2-6, they bring up all the terrible stuff people did and specifically list Junko forced some people to kill their own families after they joined Ultimate Despair. And, honestly, it makes a lot of sense for Teruteru to if anyone in this cast was going to do it. There arent a lot of people here that had good home lives. Mikan and Akane were abused and we know Peko doesnt have family at home and even Hajime likely wouldnt care all that much considering he was morphed into some other person completely. If Junko was going to spread despair to the Ultimate Despair by forcing them to kill their own families, Teruteru is really one that stands out as oh yeah this dude straight up murdered his mom. He seems to have a great home life and is the one of only a couple of characters we see that has a non-miserable home life where this sort of action would actually fit. It would make that little snippet we see of him and his mom a great little bit of foreshadowing and it would be a great way to illustrate just how manipulative Junko is. A good theory. NO WAIT THATS WRONG! But I dont think thats what happened. My personally theory is that Teruterus mommy is already dead shortly after Teruteru leaves home. We have a very short scene with the two of them so we dont get very much info, but one thing Teruteru points out in this very limited interaction is that he is worried about leaving specifically because his mom collapsed very recently. They dont go into what specific health problem she has but she specifically tells Teruteru I wont lose to some illness. You know who says that in movies? People who lose to some illness one scene later. They couldnt have been flashing a more clear hey yo this lady is dying from something like right now warning sign. She also doesnt seem like she can adequately take care of herself because she is stressed out about the diner. Teruteru promises his mom hes going to become a famous chef to save it, which gives me the impression that the diner itself might not be doing all that well. So even though we dont know exactly what is going on with his mom, Teruterus mom is not 100% when he leaves and the game wants us to know that. Thats one of the reasons he wants to get out of here. He wants to go home and help his mom because hes worried about her. See, my theory isnt that Teruterus mom dies because Teruteru joins the Ultimate Despair. My theory is that Teruterus mom dies and that CAUSES Teruteru to join the Ultimate Despair. Im assuming everyone here has reasons for joining up with Junko. Some weakness she can exploit or some reason she has for targeting them. Something that caused these people to sink into despair while we have another class full of people in the first game that were strong enough to resist it. So, imagine Teruteru goes off to school and shortly after his mom collapses again and this time Teruteru isnt around to help her. What if his mom diesand its Teruterus fault for leaving. Now, that is the sort of thing that could really send someone spiraling towards despair, I think. Teruteru blames himself for his mothers death. The one woman who loved him and supported him and fostered his love for cooking. Now thats gone. He cant even get joy out of cooking any longer because it is forever linked to his mom the woman he left to die. Seems like a good time for Junko to swoop in and make her move, doesnt it? of course I havent seen the anime so this whole thing is probably rendered moot by the first episode but whatever. For now it is my pet theory and I like it. Its probably the only reason Teruterus mom makes it into this tier while other random characters that have almost no lines are in the tiers below. I had a fun time trying to rationalize ok now why did this person give into despair after I learned the chapter 6 twist, and I thought figuring out the role Teruterus mom had in the whole thing was kind of fun. She seemed like a nice enough lady, too, and it also helped she wasnt this complete and utter asshole to her kid like Kyokos dad was. He played a more important role in the story, but Teruterus mom might not be entirely unimportant regardless of how you theorize about what happened to her. She has like two lines so I cant put her any higher than this, but honestly it isnt all that bad considering all she does is say moms are strong and then probably die off screen. Best parent in the game, at least. --- Moops? "I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion." <cite>Suprak the Stud posted [p:951621693] in The Defini... [t:79310930]...</cite> <quote>#29: Teruterus Mom Side Character Ranking: 4/8 Ultimate Ability: None Actual Ultimate Ability: Ultimate Attempt To Make You Feel Sympathetic For A Character You Hate So we come to number 29 and HEY WAIT. YOU! DONT JUST SKIP THIS WRITE UP. If there was any write-up I thought you guys might just skim over, it would be this one because Teruterus mom is literally the most inconsequential character on this list. BUT she wasnt the character I just shoehorned in to get an even 40. No no no, my friends. She was 39. That most minor, most inconsequential character to make the list is still forthcoming. I have actual thoughts on Teruterus mom. Not so much what she does in the game, of course, but rather just general timeline theory thoughts so she was a minor character I did actually want to talk about. I will say that this is sort of the demarcation point. Everyone below this spot is sub Teruterus mom, which means I actually disliked them quite a bit for me to favor this woman who shows up for roughly two minutes in the entire game. Consider every character above this to be better than a character you probably even forgot was in this game. A minor victory, but still! Thats quite a few characters I dont actively dislike, which is saying something for a game with a cast like this. I mean, honestly, I dont really like Teruterus mom. There isnt much to her and she looks like someone asked the writers to come up with a list of lines for generic strong mom and this is what we got. But I also dont dislike her and I think her character is actually somewhat interesting, especially when taking in context of Teruteru. The mom here loses some points for being associated with Teruteru. Anyone who raised this pervert had to have done something wrong. Sure, she seems sweet, but there is no way she didnt notice him fondling the dumplings and she never told him to stop, is what Im saying. She does come across as a good mom though, at the very least. She is letting Teruteru go and pursue his dreams even though she could clearly use his help around the diner. It isnt too often we get a supportive parent shot in these games, so her character stands out all the more because of it. Something about being a good parent resonates with me right now for some reason, and even in her short time you can tell she loves her son and wants him to succeed. That sort of emotion is in short supply in this game, so her little ray of sunshine doesnt go completely unnoticed. She is slightly saccharine, and like I said while playing it that whole Moms are strong line gave me flashbacks to the corny line from FFXIII that everyone made fun of. Anyway, there isnt much else to say about Teruterus mom and her four lines, so lets get into theories while I have some time to ramble. A theory that I do like is that Teruteru murders his own mother after joining team despair. In 2-6, they bring up all the terrible stuff people did and specifically list Junko forced some people to kill their own families after they joined Ultimate Despair. And, honestly, it makes a lot of sense for Teruteru to if anyone in this cast was going to do it. There arent a lot of people here that had good home lives. Mikan and Akane were abused and we know Peko doesnt have family at home and even Hajime likely wouldnt care all that much considering he was morphed into some other person completely. If Junko was going to spread despair to the Ultimate Despair by forcing them to kill their own families, Teruteru is really one that stands out as oh yeah this dude straight up murdered his mom. He seems to have a great home life and is the one of only a couple of characters we see that has a non-miserable home life where this sort of action would actually fit. It would make that little snippet we see of him and his mom a great little bit of foreshadowing and it would be a great way to illustrate just how manipulative Junko is. A good theory. NO WAIT THATS WRONG! But I dont think thats what happened. My personally theory is that Teruterus mommy is already dead shortly after Teruteru leaves home. We have a very short scene with the two of them so we dont get very much info, but one thing Teruteru points out in this very limited interaction is that he is worried about leaving specifically because his mom collapsed very recently. They dont go into what specific health problem she has but she specifically tells Teruteru I wont lose to some illness. You know who says that in movies? People who lose to some illness one scene later. They couldnt have been flashing a more clear hey yo this lady is dying from something like right now warning sign. She also doesnt seem like she can adequately take care of herself because she is stressed out about the diner. Teruteru promises his mom hes going to become a famous chef to save it, which gives me the impression that the diner itself might not be doing all that well. So even though we dont know exactly what is going on with his mom, Teruterus mom is not 100% when he leaves and the game wants us to know that. Thats one of the reasons he wants to get out of here. He wants to go home and help his mom because hes worried about her. See, my theory isnt that Teruterus mom dies because Teruteru joins the Ultimate Despair. My theory is that Teruterus mom dies and that CAUSES Teruteru to join the Ultimate Despair. Im assuming everyone here has reasons for joining up with Junko. Some weakness she can exploit or some reason she has for targeting them. Something that caused these people to sink into despair while we have another class full of people in the first game that were strong enough to resist it. So, imagine Teruteru goes off to school and shortly after his mom collapses again and this time Teruteru isnt around to help her. What if his mom diesand its Teruterus fault for leaving. Now, that is the sort of thing that could really send someone spiraling towards despair, I think. Teruteru blames himself for his mothers death. The one woman who loved him and supported him and fostered his love for cooking. Now thats gone. He cant even get joy out of cooking any longer because it is forever linked to his mom the woman he left to die. Seems like a good time for Junko to swoop in and make her move, doesnt it? of course I havent seen the anime so this whole thing is probably rendered moot by the first episode but whatever. For now it is my pet theory and I like it. Its probably the only reason Teruterus mom makes it into this tier while other random characters that have almost no lines are in the tiers below. I had a fun time trying to rationalize ok now why did this person give into despair after I learned the chapter 6 twist, and I thought figuring out the role Teruterus mom had in the whole thing was kind of fun. She seemed like a nice enough lady, too, and it also helped she wasnt this complete and utter asshole to her kid like Kyokos dad was. He played a more important role in the story, but Teruterus mom might not be entirely unimportant regardless of how you theorize about what happened to her. She has like two lines so I cant put her any higher than this, but honestly it isnt all that bad considering all she does is say moms are strong and then probably die off screen. Best parent in the game, at least. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Suprak the Stud 03/12/21 12:43:29 AM #108:	Oh, and one last thing to support my theory that only I care about since everyone else has seen the anime and might already know if Teruteru kills her or not. At the end of the game, they list off all the terrible things the Ultimate Despair has done and has some accompanying pictures about who does what. They say someone forced people to commit suicide and show what looks like Kazuichis back to the camera with a machine gun. They say people mutilated their bodies with pieces of Junko and show Fuyuhiko jamming one of her eyes into his head (which interestingly is the eye he loses during the game). They say some people murdered their own familiesand the picture they show isnt Teruterus mom. Now if Teruteru actually did kill his mom and, considering she was the one family member besides Fuyuhikos sister we saw all game, we already know what she looks like, this would be the perfect time to slap her picture up there for a real OH SHIT NO WAY kind of moment. They dont. So for now Im sticking with my theory that she was already dead by the time all of this went down. BUT THATS JUST A THEORY. A DANGANRONPA THEORY. --- Moops? "I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion." <cite>Suprak the Stud posted [p:951621709] in The Defini... [t:79310930]...</cite> <quote>Oh, and one last thing to support my theory that only I care about since everyone else has seen the anime and might already know if Teruteru kills her or not. At the end of the game, they list off all the terrible things the Ultimate Despair has done and has some accompanying pictures about who does what. They say someone forced people to commit suicide and show what looks like Kazuichis back to the camera with a machine gun. They say people mutilated their bodies with pieces of Junko and show Fuyuhiko jamming one of her eyes into his head (which interestingly is the eye he loses during the game). They say some people murdered their own familiesand the picture they show isnt Teruterus mom. Now if Teruteru actually did kill his mom and, considering she was the one family member besides Fuyuhikos sister we saw all game, we already know what she looks like, this would be the perfect time to slap her picture up there for a real OH SHIT NO WAY kind of moment. They dont. So for now Im sticking with my theory that she was already dead by the time all of this went down. BUT THATS JUST A THEORY. A DANGANRONPA THEORY. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Reg 03/14/21 4:43:31 PM #109:	imagine being so bad that suprak ranks you below literally who <cite>Reg posted [p:951706275] in The Defini... [t:79310930]...</cite> <quote>imagine being so bad that suprak ranks you below literally who </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Anagram 03/14/21 5:48:49 PM #110:	I cant wait for Suprak to rate the guy driving the truck that hit Mondos brother --- Not changing this sig until I decide to change this sig. Started: July 6, 2005 <cite>Anagram posted [p:951708284] in The Defini... [t:79310930]...</cite> <quote>I cant wait for Suprak to rate the guy driving the truck that hit Mondos brother </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Suprak the Stud 03/16/21 6:59:17 PM #111:	Anagram posted... I cant wait for Suprak to rate the guy driving the truck that hit Mondos brother Oh dang now I kinda wish I had bumped the list up to 41. Shucks. I bet I could get 800 words on unnamed truck driver, easy. --- Moops? "I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion." <cite>Suprak the Stud posted [p:951781732] in The Defini... [t:79310930]...</cite> <quote>Anagram posted... </cite> <quote>I cant wait for Suprak to rate the guy driving the truck that hit Mondos brother</quote> Oh dang now I kinda wish I had bumped the list up to 41. Shucks. I bet I could get 800 words on unnamed truck driver, easy. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Suprak the Stud 03/18/21 9:34:38 PM #112:	CASE RANKING #10: Case 1-3 Strengths: Celestes turn at the end is pretty cool, Hifumi dies Weaknesses: Everything is extremely obvious and drawn out, it makes Celeste look like an idiot The One Sentence Summary: The case where a robot sadly does not commit murder. Case 2-2 was the case in the second game where I wound up having a mild panic attack about the quality of the game. Everything was going fine through the first case, and then I hit the second case and I was like oh no is this game dumb? It was this huge drop down in quality and huge chunks of it were either boring and straight up stupid, and my excitement definitely dipped while playing it. The exact same thing happened, albeit to a lesser extent in case 1-3. My problems with 1-3 are markedly different than the issues I was having with 2-2, but I still kinda link these two together because they represented the uh oh point for me in the game. The case that hits and immediately lowers your overall opinion of the title because you can more clearly see the shortcomings of the formula when the case really struggles. Id assume this is most peoples least favorite case in the first game, as I think more people might be more forgiving of 1-5 than I was. There are a lot of issues with 1-3, both from a story and a gameplay perspective, but honestly the biggest problem with this case is the fact that it is really quite boring. There are a lot of reasons that 1-3 is boring, but I think most of them stemmed from the fact that this was also the case I figured out the earliest. There is a case in this same game where the murderer's name is written in the victims blood and it isnt a red herring. This case was easier for me to figure out than that one, which should tell you a bit about how dumb the overall murder plot is. I figured out who did this one before we found the body. As soon as Celeste was like this WEIRD man came out of nowhere and here is a picture of him I was already trying to figure out what Celestes execution was going to look like. I did not know who was murdered, but I was 99% sure who did the murdering. There isnt a single person in either game that acts more suspiciously than Celeste did in that initial scene, and I feel like I should remind everyone there is a case I already ranked where the murderer wants people to think they were the murderer. If I was trying to write a comedy scene where a very obvious murderer was trying to incompetently convince people they didnt commit a murder, Im not sure I wouldve been so on the nose as Celeste was here. Likethe first piece of evidence we get is Celeste going oof ouch ow the STRANGE man got me with the justice hammer oof ouch and then he kidnapped Hifumi ouch ouch oh hey guys look I got a picture. Likeno, fuck you, Im not falling for this you idiot. You expect me to believe you got beaten by some Transformer that made their way into the school and you were knocked unconscious but you snapped to just to take a quick picture? Like her order of events is: 1) she is attacked by a robot, 2) she gets knocked unconscious, 3) she wakes up and begs the robot to spare her life, 4) she waits for Hifumi to walk into the room and get grabbed by the robot so she can take a picture. The plot she is trying to get people to believe is so monumentally unbelievable that it is instantly obvious she is lying. That right there is all the evidence you need to convict Celeste. The trial shouldve been Monokuma going now you have to decide whodunit and then everyone bursting out in uproarious laughter as they point at Celeste and go remember when she showed us that picture she took? She is freaking out at the end like HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THE PICTURE THEN MORONS? and even the dumb characters are like you just staged it. The picture might as well been a crayon drawing she made for all the good it winds up doing her. Then Celeste spends the next twenty minutes leading everyone around and proclaiming she is seeing shadows no one else can see to get them to run where she wants. It is like you are chasing an imaginary monster at this point and just pretending with the four-year-old youre playing with that yes you totally see it too so they dont feel dumb. Her argument is that Hiro is running around in an enormous robot costume, between three floors, killing multiple people, launching four separate attacks, and literally no one else sees him the entire time. I know this is a game and there is absolutely some silliness and weirdness allowed in the Danganronpa universe, but this is a level of nonsense I just cant overlook. Like I will buy into rules specific to your universe because I need to for the plot to go forward. That sort of stuff Im willing to overlook. I have a harder time swallowing gaps in logic like the fact nobody in this group is like hey isnt weird we didnt see a giant robot with low maneuverability wandering around when Celeste said he was? It is a plot that should be discredited in mere seconds because of how dumb the whole thing is. It is weird because before this case it seems like Celeste is smart, but all the evidence here is so stupid and so obvious it is kind of shocking she went along with this. It is so utterly bizarre she thought we were going to buy Hiro in a giant robot costume as the killer here. Like he is found passed out at the pool with a robot suit that doesnt bend or move and comes with a latch in the back that makes it impossible to take off. LikeCeleste isnt supposed to be an idiot. This is so dumb that if you pitched it to Hiro, he wouldve been like hey I have some concerns about our plan here guys I don't think you thought this all the way through. Youre trying to convince people that the culprit was a person running around in a robot costume but then you design the costume in such a way that it makes it physically impossible for the person inside of it to have done it. I know Celeste tries to blame Hifumi for this, but lady this is your plan and your life on the line here. Once Hifumi starts pitching enormous robot that the person has to live in for the rest of their lives or have someone else help them out, just punch him in the face and tell him you were joking about murdering anyone. --- Moops? "I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion." <cite>Suprak the Stud posted [p:951864862] in The Defini... [t:79310930]...</cite> <quote>CASE RANKING #10: Case 1-3 Strengths: Celestes turn at the end is pretty cool, Hifumi dies Weaknesses: Everything is extremely obvious and drawn out, it makes Celeste look like an idiot The One Sentence Summary: The case where a robot sadly does not commit murder. Case 2-2 was the case in the second game where I wound up having a mild panic attack about the quality of the game. Everything was going fine through the first case, and then I hit the second case and I was like oh no is this game dumb? It was this huge drop down in quality and huge chunks of it were either boring and straight up stupid, and my excitement definitely dipped while playing it. The exact same thing happened, albeit to a lesser extent in case 1-3. My problems with 1-3 are markedly different than the issues I was having with 2-2, but I still kinda link these two together because they represented the uh oh point for me in the game. The case that hits and immediately lowers your overall opinion of the title because you can more clearly see the shortcomings of the formula when the case really struggles. Id assume this is most peoples least favorite case in the first game, as I think more people might be more forgiving of 1-5 than I was. There are a lot of issues with 1-3, both from a story and a gameplay perspective, but honestly the biggest problem with this case is the fact that it is really quite boring. There are a lot of reasons that 1-3 is boring, but I think most of them stemmed from the fact that this was also the case I figured out the earliest. There is a case in this same game where the murderer's name is written in the victims blood and it isnt a red herring. This case was easier for me to figure out than that one, which should tell you a bit about how dumb the overall murder plot is. I figured out who did this one before we found the body. As soon as Celeste was like this WEIRD man came out of nowhere and here is a picture of him I was already trying to figure out what Celestes execution was going to look like. I did not know who was murdered, but I was 99% sure who did the murdering. There isnt a single person in either game that acts more suspiciously than Celeste did in that initial scene, and I feel like I should remind everyone there is a case I already ranked where the murderer wants people to think they were the murderer. If I was trying to write a comedy scene where a very obvious murderer was trying to incompetently convince people they didnt commit a murder, Im not sure I wouldve been so on the nose as Celeste was here. Likethe first piece of evidence we get is Celeste going oof ouch ow the STRANGE man got me with the justice hammer oof ouch and then he kidnapped Hifumi ouch ouch oh hey guys look I got a picture. Likeno, fuck you, Im not falling for this you idiot. You expect me to believe you got beaten by some Transformer that made their way into the school and you were knocked unconscious but you snapped to just to take a quick picture? Like her order of events is: 1) she is attacked by a robot, 2) she gets knocked unconscious, 3) she wakes up and begs the robot to spare her life, 4) she waits for Hifumi to walk into the room and get grabbed by the robot so she can take a picture. The plot she is trying to get people to believe is so monumentally unbelievable that it is instantly obvious she is lying. That right there is all the evidence you need to convict Celeste. The trial shouldve been Monokuma going now you have to decide whodunit and then everyone bursting out in uproarious laughter as they point at Celeste and go remember when she showed us that picture she took? She is freaking out at the end like HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THE PICTURE THEN MORONS? and even the dumb characters are like you just staged it. The picture might as well been a crayon drawing she made for all the good it winds up doing her. Then Celeste spends the next twenty minutes leading everyone around and proclaiming she is seeing shadows no one else can see to get them to run where she wants. It is like you are chasing an imaginary monster at this point and just pretending with the four-year-old youre playing with that yes you totally see it too so they dont feel dumb. Her argument is that Hiro is running around in an enormous robot costume, between three floors, killing multiple people, launching four separate attacks, and literally no one else sees him the entire time. I know this is a game and there is absolutely some silliness and weirdness allowed in the Danganronpa universe, but this is a level of nonsense I just cant overlook. Like I will buy into rules specific to your universe because I need to for the plot to go forward. That sort of stuff Im willing to overlook. I have a harder time swallowing gaps in logic like the fact nobody in this group is like hey isnt weird we didnt see a giant robot with low maneuverability wandering around when Celeste said he was? It is a plot that should be discredited in mere seconds because of how dumb the whole thing is. It is weird because before this case it seems like Celeste is smart, but all the evidence here is so stupid and so obvious it is kind of shocking she went along with this. It is so utterly bizarre she thought we were going to buy Hiro in a giant robot costume as the killer here. Like he is found passed out at the pool with a robot suit that doesnt bend or move and comes with a latch in the back that makes it impossible to take off. LikeCeleste isnt supposed to be an idiot. This is so dumb that if you pitched it to Hiro, he wouldve been like hey I have some concerns about our plan here guys I don't think you thought this all the way through. Youre trying to convince people that the culprit was a person running around in a robot costume but then you design the costume in such a way that it makes it physically impossible for the person inside of it to have done it. I know Celeste tries to blame Hifumi for this, but lady this is your plan and your life on the line here. Once Hifumi starts pitching enormous robot that the person has to live in for the rest of their lives or have someone else help them out, just punch him in the face and tell him you were joking about murdering anyone. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Suprak the Stud 03/18/21 9:37:29 PM #113:	And that is sort of my issue with the case. It is a series of clues that are obnoxiously obvious and dont even give a believable red herring it could be. Hiro is ruled out almost as soon as you see him in the suit, and the game doesnt even pretend to offer up anyone else for consideration. I had a general sense of what happened as soon as we found Takas body and knew exactly what happened once we had the glasses cleaning cloth. The trial felt largely perfunctory because I was immediately ready for the next case while everyone else is so dumb they cant figure out what is wrong with Hiros robot costume. And because of that, things drag. Imagine youre in a situation where you know the solution to something and youre waiting for everyone else to catch up, because that is essentially what is going on in this case. Like you finish some complex multi-step math problem and you look up and the teacher is trying to explain to the rest of the class how two plus two equals four. Thats sort of what a case like this is like when you know the ending and all the twists because of how obvious they are, but youre forced to walk through the case step by step with a cast of characters intentionally written to seem dumb. I mentioned Kyoko getting in the way of the game a lot because of how the authors need to write her character, and I think this case is the clearest example of what happens when you insert someone who is supposed to be smarter than everyone else into a cast like this. Kyoko is literally just spelling things out this case while everyone else is drinking paint in the corner of the room. The only possible interesting twist in this entire case that I could theoretically see people not having figured out immediately was that Hifumi was not dead until he reached the second room. I think the glasses cleaning case makes this obvious, and I at least knew as soon as I saw that evidence what happened, but Im willing to give people some leeway here if they hadnt pieced it together by that point. But in the trial, this is solved not by you presenting evidence or catching someone in a mistake, but by Kyoko literally saying hey what if Hifumi WASNT dead at the start and cue dramatic music. She leads almost the entire trial, along with some help from Byakuya, and the trial winds up being this really bad combination of wading through stuff you figured out two hours ago and not even having the satisfaction of presenting the evidence yourself because Kyoko is jumping up and down to spoil everything as quickly as possible. Oh, and I mentioned this as a clue like three weeks ago now so Im sure no one remembers, but this is absolutely the execution that hit me with the least impact in either game, primarily because of how confused I was by what was going on. She was going to be burned at the stake, which is a punishment I have always associated with witches and I never really got a witch vibe from her. Maybe the whole gothic thing was meant to associate with witches, but she had just talked about vampires like a minute ago so I wasnt making the connection. But thena bus just drives into her? Leon is killed with a pitching machine, Mondo in one of those daredevil motorcycle cages, and each one fits their ultimate ability. Then we get to the ultimate gambler and she getsplowed by a bus? It doesnt seem to fit at all, and when I was playing I had no clue what the hell was going on. I just sort of stared at the final screen blinking like what the hell did I just watch? I looked it up after playing the game (or maybe someone in topic explained it to me?) and the reasoning was Celeste was all about being unique and glamorous, and being killed by a traffic accident would suck for her because it was a very boring, routine way to die. So she wouldve preferred the burning at the stake but then Monokuma switched it up to a more common execution to cause despair. Which..fine? I guess. It makes more sense that way, but it definitely wasnt something I was thinking of and, looking across both games, I think this is the only punishment that seems completely independent of the ultimate ability of the punish-ee. Even with the context, Im still pretty unimpressed by it and it is definitely my least favorite execution in either game, and there is really only one other that is even in the same ballpark of bad. Even with all my complaints though, I still slot this one just above that bottom tier of cases because I didnt completely hate it. I dont mind the underlying scheme here, and two people winding up dead was definitely unexpected. I think this is one of those cases where maybe they had the idea (someone kills someone else, then gets killed themself) first, and tried to work backwards from there. Like, that is an interesting idea for a case but they botched the execution of it by making things way too obvious from the start. And there were certainly some moments I liked. The photograph reveal was hilarious and I did chuckle a good amount at Hiro trying to figure out what the hell was going on while he was very incompetently defending himself. This is also the last free time where youre really working with a nice big cast, too, so the prelude to the murder isnt the absolute worst (even if I did hate the weird computer-virgin-SS Taka fusion love triangle thing). It still had that very good tension of oh a lot of these people are still going to die which I did appreciate. And, finally, I did enjoy Celestes turn at the end. A lot of the voice acting in this game is definitely a tier down compared to the second game, but Celestes voice actor really did a great job with the reveal and subsequent tone change. I do appreciate the whole ok she has been kind of hiding this side of herself the entire game thing she had going on, especially because that is what someone like Byakuya shouldve been doing if there plan was to escape. She makes a good sort of secondary villain in the game. Someone who isnt killing out of desperation or reaction but just because she wants to leave and everyone else is disposable. She really saves the end of the case for me, just a bit, and it was nice to see her go down at the very end. It just took way to long to get there. For me, almost the entire trial from the start until Celestes breakdown is completely skippable with absolutely nothing of interest happening, and most of the investigation stuff is also just kind of whatever. Like I said at the start of this write up, this is a boring chapter and just like 1-5, this one kind of just feels like filler. It is a shame that this is the way Celeste winds up going out, because she deserved better than this. We all deserved better than this, really, and the shortcomings of 1-3 sort of signaled the downfall of the first game for me from excellent to just good. --- Moops? "I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion." <cite>Suprak the Stud posted [p:951864968] in The Defini... [t:79310930]...</cite> <quote>And that is sort of my issue with the case. It is a series of clues that are obnoxiously obvious and dont even give a believable red herring it could be. Hiro is ruled out almost as soon as you see him in the suit, and the game doesnt even pretend to offer up anyone else for consideration. I had a general sense of what happened as soon as we found Takas body and knew exactly what happened once we had the glasses cleaning cloth. The trial felt largely perfunctory because I was immediately ready for the next case while everyone else is so dumb they cant figure out what is wrong with Hiros robot costume. And because of that, things drag. Imagine youre in a situation where you know the solution to something and youre waiting for everyone else to catch up, because that is essentially what is going on in this case. Like you finish some complex multi-step math problem and you look up and the teacher is trying to explain to the rest of the class how two plus two equals four. Thats sort of what a case like this is like when you know the ending and all the twists because of how obvious they are, but youre forced to walk through the case step by step with a cast of characters intentionally written to seem dumb. I mentioned Kyoko getting in the way of the game a lot because of how the authors need to write her character, and I think this case is the clearest example of what happens when you insert someone who is supposed to be smarter than everyone else into a cast like this. Kyoko is literally just spelling things out this case while everyone else is drinking paint in the corner of the room. The only possible interesting twist in this entire case that I could theoretically see people not having figured out immediately was that Hifumi was not dead until he reached the second room. I think the glasses cleaning case makes this obvious, and I at least knew as soon as I saw that evidence what happened, but Im willing to give people some leeway here if they hadnt pieced it together by that point. But in the trial, this is solved not by you presenting evidence or catching someone in a mistake, but by Kyoko literally saying hey what if Hifumi WASNT dead at the start and cue dramatic music. She leads almost the entire trial, along with some help from Byakuya, and the trial winds up being this really bad combination of wading through stuff you figured out two hours ago and not even having the satisfaction of presenting the evidence yourself because Kyoko is jumping up and down to spoil everything as quickly as possible. Oh, and I mentioned this as a clue like three weeks ago now so Im sure no one remembers, but this is absolutely the execution that hit me with the least impact in either game, primarily because of how confused I was by what was going on. She was going to be burned at the stake, which is a punishment I have always associated with witches and I never really got a witch vibe from her. Maybe the whole gothic thing was meant to associate with witches, but she had just talked about vampires like a minute ago so I wasnt making the connection. But thena bus just drives into her? Leon is killed with a pitching machine, Mondo in one of those daredevil motorcycle cages, and each one fits their ultimate ability. Then we get to the ultimate gambler and she getsplowed by a bus? It doesnt seem to fit at all, and when I was playing I had no clue what the hell was going on. I just sort of stared at the final screen blinking like what the hell did I just watch? I looked it up after playing the game (or maybe someone in topic explained it to me?) and the reasoning was Celeste was all about being unique and glamorous, and being killed by a traffic accident would suck for her because it was a very boring, routine way to die. So she wouldve preferred the burning at the stake but then Monokuma switched it up to a more common execution to cause despair. Which..fine? I guess. It makes more sense that way, but it definitely wasnt something I was thinking of and, looking across both games, I think this is the only punishment that seems completely independent of the ultimate ability of the punish-ee. Even with the context, Im still pretty unimpressed by it and it is definitely my least favorite execution in either game, and there is really only one other that is even in the same ballpark of bad. Even with all my complaints though, I still slot this one just above that bottom tier of cases because I didnt completely hate it. I dont mind the underlying scheme here, and two people winding up dead was definitely unexpected. I think this is one of those cases where maybe they had the idea (someone kills someone else, then gets killed themself) first, and tried to work backwards from there. Like, that is an interesting idea for a case but they botched the execution of it by making things way too obvious from the start. And there were certainly some moments I liked. The photograph reveal was hilarious and I did chuckle a good amount at Hiro trying to figure out what the hell was going on while he was very incompetently defending himself. This is also the last free time where youre really working with a nice big cast, too, so the prelude to the murder isnt the absolute worst (even if I did hate the weird computer-virgin-SS Taka fusion love triangle thing). It still had that very good tension of oh a lot of these people are still going to die which I did appreciate. And, finally, I did enjoy Celestes turn at the end. A lot of the voice acting in this game is definitely a tier down compared to the second game, but Celestes voice actor really did a great job with the reveal and subsequent tone change. I do appreciate the whole ok she has been kind of hiding this side of herself the entire game thing she had going on, especially because that is what someone like Byakuya shouldve been doing if there plan was to escape. She makes a good sort of secondary villain in the game. Someone who isnt killing out of desperation or reaction but just because she wants to leave and everyone else is disposable. She really saves the end of the case for me, just a bit, and it was nice to see her go down at the very end. It just took way to long to get there. For me, almost the entire trial from the start until Celestes breakdown is completely skippable with absolutely nothing of interest happening, and most of the investigation stuff is also just kind of whatever. Like I said at the start of this write up, this is a boring chapter and just like 1-5, this one kind of just feels like filler. It is a shame that this is the way Celeste winds up going out, because she deserved better than this. We all deserved better than this, really, and the shortcomings of 1-3 sort of signaled the downfall of the first game for me from excellent to just good. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Suprak the Stud 03/18/21 9:39:46 PM #114:	Also shout out to Johnbobb. I was watching through the Game Grumps playthrough of this because of him, and the first 9 minutes of this video (where they encounter the fake injured Celeste) had me laughing out loud. I think it very clearly illustrates (especially with them speaking her lines) just how stupid Celeste sounded about the STRANGE and SUSPICIOUS man that attacked her. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEhYiVprkGY --- Moops? "I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion." <cite>Suprak the Stud posted [p:951865048] in The Defini... [t:79310930]...</cite> <quote>Also shout out to Johnbobb. I was watching through the Game Grumps playthrough of this because of him, and the first 9 minutes of this video (where they encounter the fake injured Celeste) had me laughing out loud. I think it very clearly illustrates (especially with them speaking her lines) just how stupid Celeste sounded about the STRANGE and SUSPICIOUS man that attacked her. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEhYiVprkGY </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Anagaram 03/18/21 9:44:38 PM #115:	2-3's execution is a million times worse than Celeste's. --- This is an alt. <cite>Anagaram posted [p:951865229] in The Defini... [t:79310930]...</cite> <quote>2-3's execution is a million times worse than Celeste's. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Hbthebattle 03/19/21 12:37:56 AM #116:	Yeah, gotta concur on that. Celeste's execution makes sense thematically in a couple ways, but Mikan's is just... stupid. Even for this series. --- Congrats to azuarc for winning the GotD Guru! <cite>Hbthebattle posted [p:951870455] in The Defini... [t:79310930]...</cite> <quote>Yeah, gotta concur on that. Celeste's execution makes sense thematically in a couple ways, but Mikan's is just... stupid. Even for this series. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Earthshaker 03/19/21 1:34:35 AM #117:	I seem to recall reading some fanwank that she was actually enjoying her way out, thinking it was a noble way to die, and nope, can't have that, you're a pancake now, Celeste. Have fun soaking up that Mondo butter. --- [Brackets.] - Current and ongoing games: FFXIV, Vermintide 2, League of Legends, Warframe. Streaming soon on Twitch <cite>Earthshaker posted [p:951871598] in The Defini... [t:79310930]...</cite> <quote>I seem to recall reading some fanwank that she was actually enjoying her way out, thinking it was a noble way to die, and nope, can't have that, you're a pancake now, Celeste. Have fun soaking up that Mondo butter. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SeabassDebeste 03/19/21 1:35:21 PM #118:	i actually have 1-3 higher than 1-2 since mondo is unbearable. i also think 1-3 is just fucking hilarious. you're entirely right about how predictable it is, but i think it actually kind of is a comedy. like yeah it's insulting to your intelligence but playing DR is an exercise in the game insulting you in lots of ways. especially DR1. like i'd rather have celeste doing her 4th grade class play acting with actual murder than have to deal with kazuichi and hifumi perving on people and being expected to laugh. kyoko is terrible, but this is a case where her "intelligence" is extra-funny in context simply because it's so obvious. also yeah, celeste is one of my fav characters of the first game. that really is a legit ace attorney-style change she undergoes, and that's one of the more satisfying parts about AA. --- yet all azuarc of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness <cite>SeabassDebeste posted [p:951886600] in The Defini... [t:79310930]...</cite> <quote>i actually have 1-3 higher than 1-2 since mondo is unbearable. i also think 1-3 is just fucking hilarious. you're entirely right about how predictable it is, but i think it actually kind of is a comedy. like yeah it's insulting to your intelligence but playing DR is an exercise in the game insulting you in lots of ways. especially DR1. like i'd rather have celeste doing her 4th grade class play acting with actual murder than have to deal with kazuichi and hifumi perving on people and being expected to laugh. kyoko is terrible, but this is a case where her "intelligence" is extra-funny in context simply because it's so obvious. also yeah, celeste is one of my fav characters of the first game. that really is a legit ace attorney-style change she undergoes, and that's one of the more satisfying parts about AA.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Suprak the Stud 03/23/21 1:07:14 AM #119:	Up next: A character with perhaps the most interesting interaction with their ultimate ability. --- Moops? "I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion." <cite>Suprak the Stud posted [p:952010538] in The Defini... [t:79310930]...</cite> <quote>Up next: A character with perhaps the most interesting interaction with their ultimate ability. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Suprak the Stud 03/23/21 1:10:28 AM #120:	SeabassDebeste posted... i actually have 1-3 higher than 1-2 since mondo is unbearable. i also think 1-3 is just fucking hilarious. you're entirely right about how predictable it is, but i think it actually kind of is a comedy. like yeah it's insulting to your intelligence but playing DR is an exercise in the game insulting you in lots of ways. especially DR1. like i'd rather have celeste doing her 4th grade class play acting with actual murder than have to deal with kazuichi and hifumi perving on people and being expected to laugh. kyoko is terrible, but this is a case where her "intelligence" is extra-funny in context simply because it's so obvious. also yeah, celeste is one of my fav characters of the first game. that really is a legit ace attorney-style change she undergoes, and that's one of the more satisfying parts about AA. I don't disagree with most of that, but that was definitely the case I was the most "bored" in during the first game. 1-5 is a whole different level of bad, but that was at least approaching end game and I wanted to see what would happen. 1-3 is funny at several points for how weird parts are, but the trial itself was so boring and I was more annoyed than amused by how everyone was pretending not to know what was going on. I get liking 1-3 though. There were parts that even I found appealing. --- Moops? "I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion." <cite>Suprak the Stud posted [p:952010614] in The Defini... [t:79310930]...</cite> <quote>SeabassDebeste posted... </cite> <quote>i actually have 1-3 higher than 1-2 since mondo is unbearable. i also think 1-3 is just fucking hilarious. you're entirely right about how predictable it is, but i think it actually kind of is a comedy. like yeah it's insulting to your intelligence but playing DR is an exercise in the game insulting you in lots of ways. especially DR1. like i'd rather have celeste doing her 4th grade class play acting with actual murder than have to deal with kazuichi and hifumi perving on people and being expected to laugh. kyoko is terrible, but this is a case where her "intelligence" is extra-funny in context simply because it's so obvious. also yeah, celeste is one of my fav characters of the first game. that really is a legit ace attorney-style change she undergoes, and that's one of the more satisfying parts about AA.</quote> I don't disagree with most of that, but that was definitely the case I was the most "bored" in during the first game. 1-5 is a whole different level of bad, but that was at least approaching end game and I wanted to see what would happen. 1-3 is funny at several points for how weird parts are, but the trial itself was so boring and I was more annoyed than amused by how everyone was pretending not to know what was going on. I get liking 1-3 though. There were parts that even I found appealing. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
xp1337 03/23/21 4:22:04 PM #121:	Suprak the Stud posted... Up next: A character with perhaps the most interesting interaction with their ultimate ability. That would be Nagito for me, but no way is he dropping here. ...Makoto? --- xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out? <cite>xp1337 posted [p:952031675] in The Defini... [t:79310930]...</cite> <quote>Suprak the Stud posted... </cite> <quote>Up next: A character with perhaps the most interesting interaction with their ultimate ability.</quote>That would be Nagito for me, but no way is he dropping here. ...Makoto? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Suprak the Stud 03/24/21 6:57:24 PM #122:	#28: Leon Kuwata Main Cast (Male) Ranking: 11/16 Killer Ranking: 9/11 Ultimate Ability: Ultimate Baseball Star Actual Ultimate Ability: Ultimate Literally Who I know I've said this before, but I liked looking through other peoples Danganraonpa lists just because of how different theyre guaranteed to be. You see characters all over the place because certain things resonate with certain people and dont with others. But I feel like Leon almost always has to be at the bottom. People who have Leon in the top half of their character rankings are really just saying I hated the cast of Danganronpa so this guy who wasnt really in it is one of my favorites because at least he wasnt around long enough to annoy me. I mean, that is part of the reason he ranks above a good chunk of characters for me, too. This is the Leon line. It would be like if I was ranking my favorite movies, and one of them was the loading screen on Netflix. You would know anything below that was something I didnt like, and the same is true here for Leon. Leon doesnt really get to do much in the game and I can almost guarantee that almost no one remembers anything he says or does other than his meltdown at the end of the trial. From my recollection he introduces himself, gets tricked by Sayaka, then dies. He shows up at Sayakas room, probably assuming he is going to get some booty, and then winds up getting attacked instead. Not a good night. Leon makes this night even worse by deciding the best thing to do here is to go back to his room, get the tools he needs to take down the door, and murder Sayaka. I know he gets attacked first but he pretty easily fights Sayaka off because shes incompetent, but Im not giving Leon any credit for acting in defense. He actually might have one of the worst motives for murder in either game, now that I think about it. Sayaka wanted to reunite with her band and Mondo needed his secret to not get out and Celeste wanted a castle of vampire servents. Leon just seems like he got mad and decided to kill an already wounded Sayaka because hehad a chance to get out? He didnt seem all that desperate to get out before, but hey maybe getting almost stabbed was enough to convince him to change his mind. It wouldnt be the weirdest logic in the game, I suppose. The thing isI dont have a lot to say about Leon and I feel like I should take this time to remind you I wrote like seven paragraphs on Teruterus mom. Thats how boring Leon is. He is kind of this big ball of nothing that they dont really bother to give a personality to. Im trying to think back through both casts, and other than the Ultimate Imposter, I dont think there is any other character that is developed as poorly as Leon. If I was going to describe most of the other characters, I would start with their personality. Byakuya is arrogant and stuck up and thinks little of other people and Mikan is hesitant and scared and apologetic and so on and so on. I would do that for almost every character. With Leon I think I would go oh we was the one who killed Sayaka and had his name written on the wall. That is pretty much the extent of his character for me. Hes the guy so dumb he didnt notice Sayaka writing her name on the wall as he was stabbing her. Or maybe he left a bit early and she was clinging to life and then she wrote what she did on the wall. I choose that, actually, because at least then Leon isnt a complete and utter moron. I also feel like if I was going to list all characters from most impactful to least impactful, Leon would be all the way at the very bottom. Sure, he kills Sayaka but that was entirely reactionary. I know he went back to his room to get the stuff to kill her, but it wasnt like he came up with some great plan. His entire plan was I will stab her because she tried to stab me and it was really Sayaka who set all that in motion. Im trying to think of anyone who had less of an impact on the plot than Leon. Teruteru, maybe? Except he at least set him own plan into motion as a way to stop Nagito, even if things went wrong. There are maybe one or two others you could argue for that I havent ranked yet, but I feel like it is pretty clearly Leon. He just serves as like the tutorial villain and doesnt even really do all that good of a job at that. And this isnt just a when he died sort of thing, either. I mean, part of the issue here is he dies case one and yeah thats going to mean he gets less screen time that everyone else. It is hard to endear yourself to other people when you are currently rotting in the morgue because you got baseballd to death. But, still, Leon just does nothing with the time hes given. Sayaka dies long before Leon does and has ten times the development. Even fake Junko gets a lot more characterization than Leon, and she probably has around the same amount of lines. The first game early exit-ers in Fake Byakuya and Teruteru also get way more characterization than Leon. I mean, I hate Teruteru but you have a really firm grasp of his personality almost instantly and he even gets a MOMMA backstory to help round him out. Leon doesnt get any of these things. He dies really early, but his personality was dead when the game started. I think of all the main cast, Leon is the character the writers put the absolute least effort into making. Leon seems to have been included solely for evidence related reasons. Hes the ultimate baseball player because they needed a baseball player to throw evidence into the incinerator so thats pretty much all he gets to do. He is more a talent than a character, and they shoo him off the stage once hes served his purpose. There isnt too much I actually about when it comes to Leon, but I have to say his interaction with his ultimate ability is actually really interesting to me. At least to my knowledge, he is the only character that straight up hates his ultimate ability. He doesnt care about being good at baseball, and in fact doesnt seem to want anything to do with baseball. He doesnt have much dialogue at all in this game, and most of what he does is either him freaking out about getting caught for murdering Sayaka or complaining about how much baseball sucks. I just thought that was kind of a fun dynamic, especially considering how everyone else in the game is. You have people dedicating their lives to martial arts or fanfiction or swimming or whatever and it is like this big part of who they are and how they act. And Leon, just sort of, like, doesnt care, man. It is something I wouldve liked to see a little more about, honestly, and it was sort of interesting watch Leon try to figure out what he wanted to do with his life outside of baseball. That is the kind of struggle no one else in the games has, and it helps give Leon the slightest sliver of a personality that hed otherwise be lacking. --- Moops? "I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion." <cite>Suprak the Stud posted [p:952075331] in The Defini... [t:79310930]...</cite> <quote>#28: Leon Kuwata Main Cast (Male) Ranking: 11/16 Killer Ranking: 9/11 Ultimate Ability: Ultimate Baseball Star Actual Ultimate Ability: Ultimate Literally Who I know I've said this before, but I liked looking through other peoples Danganraonpa lists just because of how different theyre guaranteed to be. You see characters all over the place because certain things resonate with certain people and dont with others. But I feel like Leon almost always has to be at the bottom. People who have Leon in the top half of their character rankings are really just saying I hated the cast of Danganronpa so this guy who wasnt really in it is one of my favorites because at least he wasnt around long enough to annoy me. I mean, that is part of the reason he ranks above a good chunk of characters for me, too. This is the Leon line. It would be like if I was ranking my favorite movies, and one of them was the loading screen on Netflix. You would know anything below that was something I didnt like, and the same is true here for Leon. Leon doesnt really get to do much in the game and I can almost guarantee that almost no one remembers anything he says or does other than his meltdown at the end of the trial. From my recollection he introduces himself, gets tricked by Sayaka, then dies. He shows up at Sayakas room, probably assuming he is going to get some booty, and then winds up getting attacked instead. Not a good night. Leon makes this night even worse by deciding the best thing to do here is to go back to his room, get the tools he needs to take down the door, and murder Sayaka. I know he gets attacked first but he pretty easily fights Sayaka off because shes incompetent, but Im not giving Leon any credit for acting in defense. He actually might have one of the worst motives for murder in either game, now that I think about it. Sayaka wanted to reunite with her band and Mondo needed his secret to not get out and Celeste wanted a castle of vampire servents. Leon just seems like he got mad and decided to kill an already wounded Sayaka because hehad a chance to get out? He didnt seem all that desperate to get out before, but hey maybe getting almost stabbed was enough to convince him to change his mind. It wouldnt be the weirdest logic in the game, I suppose. The thing isI dont have a lot to say about Leon and I feel like I should take this time to remind you I wrote like seven paragraphs on Teruterus mom. Thats how boring Leon is. He is kind of this big ball of nothing that they dont really bother to give a personality to. Im trying to think back through both casts, and other than the Ultimate Imposter, I dont think there is any other character that is developed as poorly as Leon. If I was going to describe most of the other characters, I would start with their personality. Byakuya is arrogant and stuck up and thinks little of other people and Mikan is hesitant and scared and apologetic and so on and so on. I would do that for almost every character. With Leon I think I would go oh we was the one who killed Sayaka and had his name written on the wall. That is pretty much the extent of his character for me. Hes the guy so dumb he didnt notice Sayaka writing her name on the wall as he was stabbing her. Or maybe he left a bit early and she was clinging to life and then she wrote what she did on the wall. I choose that, actually, because at least then Leon isnt a complete and utter moron. I also feel like if I was going to list all characters from most impactful to least impactful, Leon would be all the way at the very bottom. Sure, he kills Sayaka but that was entirely reactionary. I know he went back to his room to get the stuff to kill her, but it wasnt like he came up with some great plan. His entire plan was I will stab her because she tried to stab me and it was really Sayaka who set all that in motion. Im trying to think of anyone who had less of an impact on the plot than Leon. Teruteru, maybe? Except he at least set him own plan into motion as a way to stop Nagito, even if things went wrong. There are maybe one or two others you could argue for that I havent ranked yet, but I feel like it is pretty clearly Leon. He just serves as like the tutorial villain and doesnt even really do all that good of a job at that. And this isnt just a when he died sort of thing, either. I mean, part of the issue here is he dies case one and yeah thats going to mean he gets less screen time that everyone else. It is hard to endear yourself to other people when you are currently rotting in the morgue because you got baseballd to death. But, still, Leon just does nothing with the time hes given. Sayaka dies long before Leon does and has ten times the development. Even fake Junko gets a lot more characterization than Leon, and she probably has around the same amount of lines. The first game early exit-ers in Fake Byakuya and Teruteru also get way more characterization than Leon. I mean, I hate Teruteru but you have a really firm grasp of his personality almost instantly and he even gets a MOMMA backstory to help round him out. Leon doesnt get any of these things. He dies really early, but his personality was dead when the game started. I think of all the main cast, Leon is the character the writers put the absolute least effort into making. Leon seems to have been included solely for evidence related reasons. Hes the ultimate baseball player because they needed a baseball player to throw evidence into the incinerator so thats pretty much all he gets to do. He is more a talent than a character, and they shoo him off the stage once hes served his purpose. There isnt too much I actually about when it comes to Leon, but I have to say his interaction with his ultimate ability is actually really interesting to me. At least to my knowledge, he is the only character that straight up hates his ultimate ability. He doesnt care about being good at baseball, and in fact doesnt seem to want anything to do with baseball. He doesnt have much dialogue at all in this game, and most of what he does is either him freaking out about getting caught for murdering Sayaka or complaining about how much baseball sucks. I just thought that was kind of a fun dynamic, especially considering how everyone else in the game is. You have people dedicating their lives to martial arts or fanfiction or swimming or whatever and it is like this big part of who they are and how they act. And Leon, just sort of, like, doesnt care, man. It is something I wouldve liked to see a little more about, honestly, and it was sort of interesting watch Leon try to figure out what he wanted to do with his life outside of baseball. That is the kind of struggle no one else in the games has, and it helps give Leon the slightest sliver of a personality that hed otherwise be lacking. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Suprak the Stud 03/24/21 6:58:46 PM #123:	Of course, if you see his free time through to the end, you find out that maybe he does actually like baseball a little bit as he admits to Makoto that he misses it and kind of wants to play some more. So maybe he doesnt really hate baseball as much as he hates the routine surrounding baseball, but either way youre left with this character that doesnt fully embrace his ultimate ability and seems to sort of want to move on a little bit from what got him here. Maybe hed go back and play for his old team if he got out of there. Or maybe not. He seems conflicted a bit with who he is and what he wants to do, which honestly makes sense for a high school student at his age. I had forgotten most characters free time events and had to rewatch them recently when I was doing my full game rewatch. But Leons I actually remembered because I found it kind of interesting that he wasnt just blathering on about his ultimate ability and how cool it was. He actually felt like he had one of the most human reactions to being an ultimate and not knowing whether or not he should embrace it makes sense. But thats really all there is to Leon. He is one of a couple characters you learn more about through free time and post game stuff than you do in the actual game. In the game itself, he is an afterthought. I mean, I dont hate Leon but I dont really think about Leon at all. Even the only thing he is really known for, being the first killer in the series, is more reactionary than anything else. I know Reg made a joke about main cast characters being ranked below literally who but I feel like Leon is almost as much as a literally who as any of the other literally who characters who have appeared on the list. He is the Ultimate Literally Who, a guy who comes and goes and leaves absolutely nothing behind besides Sayakas bloody corpse. You learn absolutely nothing about him. It feels like he barely makes a cameo appearance. Sure, hes main cast but hes really more main cast than actual main cast. If they had a main cast reunion, hed be the guy they force to stand outside and look at everyone else through the window because he clearly doesnt belong with anyone else. Ive listed a lot of characters Ive disliked, but I feel like Leon might be the only character nobody missed when he died. --- Moops? "I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion." <cite>Suprak the Stud posted [p:952075380] in The Defini... [t:79310930]...</cite> <quote>Of course, if you see his free time through to the end, you find out that maybe he does actually like baseball a little bit as he admits to Makoto that he misses it and kind of wants to play some more. So maybe he doesnt really hate baseball as much as he hates the routine surrounding baseball, but either way youre left with this character that doesnt fully embrace his ultimate ability and seems to sort of want to move on a little bit from what got him here. Maybe hed go back and play for his old team if he got out of there. Or maybe not. He seems conflicted a bit with who he is and what he wants to do, which honestly makes sense for a high school student at his age. I had forgotten most characters free time events and had to rewatch them recently when I was doing my full game rewatch. But Leons I actually remembered because I found it kind of interesting that he wasnt just blathering on about his ultimate ability and how cool it was. He actually felt like he had one of the most human reactions to being an ultimate and not knowing whether or not he should embrace it makes sense. But thats really all there is to Leon. He is one of a couple characters you learn more about through free time and post game stuff than you do in the actual game. In the game itself, he is an afterthought. I mean, I dont hate Leon but I dont really think about Leon at all. Even the only thing he is really known for, being the first killer in the series, is more reactionary than anything else. I know Reg made a joke about main cast characters being ranked below literally who but I feel like Leon is almost as much as a literally who as any of the other literally who characters who have appeared on the list. He is the Ultimate Literally Who, a guy who comes and goes and leaves absolutely nothing behind besides Sayakas bloody corpse. You learn absolutely nothing about him. It feels like he barely makes a cameo appearance. Sure, hes main cast but hes really more main cast than actual main cast. If they had a main cast reunion, hed be the guy they force to stand outside and look at everyone else through the window because he clearly doesnt belong with anyone else. Ive listed a lot of characters Ive disliked, but I feel like Leon might be the only character nobody missed when he died. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Anagram 03/24/21 7:12:00 PM #124:	Poor Leon. Hes probably the character in these games who gets the least screen time (barring Mukuro, but even she has a short story), but at least 11037 gets to be a meme. --- Not changing this sig until I decide to change this sig. Started: July 6, 2005 <cite>Anagram posted [p:952075901] in The Defini... [t:79310930]...</cite> <quote>Poor Leon. Hes probably the character in these games who gets the least screen time (barring Mukuro, but even she has a short story), but at least 11037 gets to be a meme. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Johnbobb 03/24/21 7:46:37 PM #125:	I kind of hate how much the GameGrumps playthrough has influenced my thoughts about the game. I can't think of Leon now without thinking of this specifically: https://youtu.be/9CslkLKj854?t=546 --- Khal Kirby, warlord of the Super Star Khalasar PSN/Steam: CheddarBBQ https://goo.gl/Diw2hs <cite>Johnbobb posted [p:952077244] in The Defini... [t:79310930]...</cite> <quote>I kind of hate how much the GameGrumps playthrough has influenced my thoughts about the game. I can't think of Leon now without thinking of this specifically: https://youtu.be/9CslkLKj854?t=546 </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
xp1337 03/24/21 7:49:44 PM #126:	I'd say someone like Hifumi is less impactful than Leon despite making it to the third case simply because of Leon's execution. --- xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out? <cite>xp1337 posted [p:952077363] in The Defini... [t:79310930]...</cite> <quote>I'd say someone like Hifumi is less impactful than Leon despite making it to the third case simply because of Leon's execution. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
azuarc 03/24/21 7:59:42 PM #127:	Hifumi has an obnoxious personality, but he does have one. That said, I did a hangout event with Leon (and Sayaka, lol) in chapter 1, so I have a slightly better vibe for him than someone who didn't might. And every time I read this thread, I keep wondering how suprak would react if he'd also played V3. --- Only the exceptions can be exceptional. <cite>azuarc posted [p:952077700] in The Defini... [t:79310930]...</cite> <quote>Hifumi has an obnoxious personality, but he does have one. That said, I did a hangout event with Leon (and Sayaka, lol) in chapter 1, so I have a slightly better vibe for him than someone who didn't might. And every time I read this thread, I keep wondering how suprak would react if he'd also played V3. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Suprak the Stud 03/24/21 8:03:00 PM #128:	It is on my list of things to do! I just had a baby so I don't think I can quite play UDG as it seems to be a bit more of an action-y type game and I'm just sticking to slow paced stuff right now in my free time. But I'll get around to it eventually! Johnbobb posted... I kind of hate how much the GameGrumps playthrough has influenced my thoughts about the game. I can't think of Leon now without thinking of this specifically: https://youtu.be/9CslkLKj854?t=546 I had actively avoided the GameGrumps for like years but I watched this entire playthrough thanks to you and it was actually really good (except some parts near the end where it appears Aaron had taken too much time off between episodes and forgot what the hell was going on). Of course, this happens to be like the worst time to be saying "hey Game Grumps isn't all that bad actually!" so I blame you for that. --- Moops? "I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion." <cite>Suprak the Stud posted [p:952077813] in The Defini... [t:79310930]...</cite> <quote>It is on my list of things to do! I just had a baby so I don't think I can quite play UDG as it seems to be a bit more of an action-y type game and I'm just sticking to slow paced stuff right now in my free time. But I'll get around to it eventually! Johnbobb posted... </cite> <quote>I kind of hate how much the GameGrumps playthrough has influenced my thoughts about the game. I can't think of Leon now without thinking of this specifically: https://youtu.be/9CslkLKj854?t=546</quote> I had actively avoided the GameGrumps for like years but I watched this entire playthrough thanks to you and it was actually really good (except some parts near the end where it appears Aaron had taken too much time off between episodes and forgot what the hell was going on). Of course, this happens to be like the worst time to be saying "hey Game Grumps isn't all that bad actually!" so I blame you for that. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
azuarc 03/24/21 8:26:57 PM #129:	Shrug. I never played UDG. --- Only the exceptions can be exceptional. <cite>azuarc posted [p:952078644] in The Defini... [t:79310930]...</cite> <quote>Shrug. I never played UDG. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
StealThisSheen 03/24/21 8:46:52 PM #130:	Leon's freakout is great though which puts him above people like Hifumi --- Seplito Nash, Smelling Like the Vault since 1996 Step FOUR! Get Paid! <cite>StealThisSheen posted [p:952079351] in The Defini... [t:79310930]...</cite> <quote>Leon's freakout is great though which puts him above people like Hifumi </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Suprak the Stud 03/24/21 8:48:25 PM #131:	I mean I like Leon a lot more than Hifumi for obvious reasons. I was just saying in terms of impact on the game, due to his short number of lines and doing almost nothing in his chapter, I feel like he has the lowest overall impact. Hifumi is around longer to annoy me. I definitely have "more" of an opinion of Hifumi, even if it is a bad one. --- Moops? "I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion." <cite>Suprak the Stud posted [p:952079406] in The Defini... [t:79310930]...</cite> <quote>I mean I like Leon a lot more than Hifumi for obvious reasons. I was just saying in terms of impact on the game, due to his short number of lines and doing almost nothing in his chapter, I feel like he has the lowest overall impact. Hifumi is around longer to annoy me. I definitely have "more" of an opinion of Hifumi, even if it is a bad one. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
StealThisSheen 03/24/21 8:51:00 PM #132:	I also kinda think Leon's motive is better than a lot of other motives. Most of them are dumb if you think about them for longer than three seconds, while Leon's motive is literally "This ho just tried to kill me and this thing literally barely even started" which is honestly a super realistic reaction. --- Seplito Nash, Smelling Like the Vault since 1996 Step FOUR! Get Paid! <cite>StealThisSheen posted [p:952079500] in The Defini... [t:79310930]...</cite> <quote>I also kinda think Leon's motive is better than a lot of other motives. Most of them are dumb if you think about them for longer than three seconds, while Leon's motive is literally "This ho just tried to kill me and this thing literally barely even started" which is honestly a super realistic reaction. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Anagaram 03/24/21 9:51:14 PM #133:	StealThisSheen posted... I also kinda think Leon's motive is better than a lot of other motives. Most of them are dumb if you think about them for longer than three seconds, while Leon's motive is literally "This ho just tried to kill me and this thing literally barely even started" which is honestly a super realistic reaction. Eh. If he'd killed her in self-defense, that would have been a good way to play up the tragedy of things, but they intentionally made him kill her on purpose. --- This is an alt. <cite>Anagaram posted [p:952081665] in The Defini... [t:79310930]...</cite> <quote>StealThisSheen posted... </cite> <quote>I also kinda think Leon's motive is better than a lot of other motives. Most of them are dumb if you think about them for longer than three seconds, while Leon's motive is literally "This ho just tried to kill me and this thing literally barely even started" which is honestly a super realistic reaction.</quote>Eh. If he'd killed her in self-defense, that would have been a good way to play up the tragedy of things, but they intentionally made him kill her on purpose. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
StealThisSheen 03/24/21 10:05:46 PM #134:	Anagaram posted... Eh. If he'd killed her in self-defense, that would have been a good way to play up the tragedy of things, but they intentionally made him kill her on purpose. Right, but it's a realistic reaction at that point. Up until then, he didn't seem interested in the killing game at all. But suddenly she tries to kill him almost right away, which tells him A. She could try again B. Somebody else could try, the killing game has clearly actually begun to some people That'd definitely cause a sense of urgency, so he saw the opportunity to try to "win" and get out of there and took it. It's kinda unique in that there's no silly, convoluted motive on top of it. Just a pure, gut reaction to almost getting killed and realizing it could happen again, which makes him suddenly very willing to play the game. --- Seplito Nash, Smelling Like the Vault since 1996 Step FOUR! Get Paid! <cite>StealThisSheen posted [p:952082223] in The Defini... [t:79310930]...</cite> <quote>Anagaram posted... </cite> <quote>Eh. If he'd killed her in self-defense, that would have been a good way to play up the tragedy of things, but they intentionally made him kill her on purpose.</quote> Right, but it's a realistic reaction at that point. Up until then, he didn't seem interested in the killing game at all. But suddenly she tries to kill him almost right away, which tells him A. She could try again B. Somebody else could try, the killing game has clearly actually begun to some people That'd definitely cause a sense of urgency, so he saw the opportunity to try to "win" and get out of there and took it. It's kinda unique in that there's no silly, convoluted motive on top of it. Just a pure, gut reaction to almost getting killed and realizing it could happen again, which makes him suddenly very willing to play the game. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Johnbobb 03/24/21 10:34:41 PM #135:	Suprak the Stud posted... I had actively avoided the GameGrumps for like years but I watched this entire playthrough thanks to you and it was actually really good (except some parts near the end where it appears Aaron had taken too much time off between episodes and forgot what the hell was going on). Of course, this happens to be like the worst time to be saying "hey Game Grumps isn't all that bad actually!" so I blame you for that. I enjoyed the playthrough, though it did have some issues. In particular, Arin doing the same voice for every single female character and getting real whiny about the game toward the end. Dan's often the more fun of the two (and yeah, I know, not the best time to be saying that) --- Khal Kirby, warlord of the Super Star Khalasar PSN/Steam: CheddarBBQ https://goo.gl/Diw2hs <cite>Johnbobb posted [p:952083134] in The Defini... [t:79310930]...</cite> <quote>Suprak the Stud posted... </cite> <quote> I had actively avoided the GameGrumps for like years but I watched this entire playthrough thanks to you and it was actually really good (except some parts near the end where it appears Aaron had taken too much time off between episodes and forgot what the hell was going on). Of course, this happens to be like the worst time to be saying "hey Game Grumps isn't all that bad actually!" so I blame you for that.</quote>I enjoyed the playthrough, though it did have some issues. In particular, Arin doing the same voice for every single female character and getting real whiny about the game toward the end. Dan's often the more fun of the two (and yeah, I know, not the best time to be saying that) </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SeabassDebeste 03/24/21 11:54:32 PM #136:	1-1 of DR1 also very cleverly gives leon one of the best coverup plans: one that just involves leaving, instead of cooking up some ridiculous scenario that essentially makes him the only person who could have set everything up. sayaka actually takes care of the real murder plot here by holding the event in makoto's room. and yeah, i thought leon's motive was actually pretty decent too. 1-1 is arguably dr1's best case. --- yet all azuarc of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness <cite>SeabassDebeste posted [p:952085522] in The Defini... [t:79310930]...</cite> <quote>1-1 of DR1 also very cleverly gives leon one of the best coverup plans: one that just involves leaving, instead of cooking up some ridiculous scenario that essentially makes him the only person who could have set everything up. sayaka actually takes care of the real murder plot here by holding the event in makoto's room. and yeah, i thought leon's motive was actually pretty decent too. 1-1 is arguably dr1's best case.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Inviso 03/24/21 11:59:20 PM #137:	Absolutely not. 1-4 > 1-2 > 1-6 > 1-1 > 1-5 > 1-3 --- Touch fuzzy. Get fuzzier. Inviso <cite>Inviso posted [p:952085673] in The Defini... [t:79310930]...</cite> <quote>Absolutely not. 1-4 > 1-2 > 1-6 > 1-1 > 1-5 > 1-3 </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Anagaram 03/25/21 12:09:05 AM #138:	SeabassDebeste posted... 1-1 of DR1 also very cleverly gives leon one of the best coverup plans: one that just involves leaving He doesn't just leave! He also cleans up his hair. --- This is an alt. <cite>Anagaram posted [p:952085911] in The Defini... [t:79310930]...</cite> <quote>SeabassDebeste posted... </cite> <quote>1-1 of DR1 also very cleverly gives leon one of the best coverup plans: one that just involves leaving</quote>He doesn't just leave! He also cleans up his hair. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Suprak the Stud 03/25/21 12:43:16 AM #139:	StealThisSheen posted... Right, but it's a realistic reaction at that point. Up until then, he didn't seem interested in the killing game at all. But suddenly she tries to kill him almost right away, which tells him A. She could try again B. Somebody else could try, the killing game has clearly actually begun to some people That'd definitely cause a sense of urgency, so he saw the opportunity to try to "win" and get out of there and took it. It's kinda unique in that there's no silly, convoluted motive on top of it. Just a pure, gut reaction to almost getting killed and realizing it could happen again, which makes him suddenly very willing to play the game. I wouldn't quite say it is gut reaction. It is more of a "go to my room, get the screwdriver, walk back down the hall, slowly take the door off of its hinges, go in and stab someone" reaction. He didn't quite kill her in self defense. I do like the idea of "He didnt seem all that desperate to get out before, but hey maybe getting almost stabbed was enough to convince him to change his mind. It wouldnt be the weirdest logic in the game, I suppose." I'm not saying it doesn't make sense, but he's still a jerk for trying to get everyone else killed on top of it. --- Moops? "I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion." <cite>Suprak the Stud posted [p:952086738] in The Defini... [t:79310930]...</cite> <quote>StealThisSheen posted... </cite> <quote>Right, but it's a realistic reaction at that point. Up until then, he didn't seem interested in the killing game at all. But suddenly she tries to kill him almost right away, which tells him A. She could try again B. Somebody else could try, the killing game has clearly actually begun to some people That'd definitely cause a sense of urgency, so he saw the opportunity to try to "win" and get out of there and took it. It's kinda unique in that there's no silly, convoluted motive on top of it. Just a pure, gut reaction to almost getting killed and realizing it could happen again, which makes him suddenly very willing to play the game.</quote> I wouldn't quite say it is gut reaction. It is more of a "go to my room, get the screwdriver, walk back down the hall, slowly take the door off of its hinges, go in and stab someone" reaction. He didn't quite kill her in self defense. I do like the idea of "He didnt seem all that desperate to get out before, but hey maybe getting almost stabbed was enough to convince him to change his mind. It wouldnt be the weirdest logic in the game, I suppose." I'm not saying it doesn't make sense, but he's still a jerk for trying to get everyone else killed on top of it. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Suprak the Stud 03/25/21 12:44:01 AM #140:	Anagaram posted... He doesn't just leave! He also cleans up his hair. It is actually kind of funny to picture him painstakingly going over every inch in the room for hair but not noticing that there is a "LEON DID IT" sign written in blood in the bathroom. --- Moops? "I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion." <cite>Suprak the Stud posted [p:952086752] in The Defini... [t:79310930]...</cite> <quote>Anagaram posted... </cite> <quote>He doesn't just leave! He also cleans up his hair.</quote> It is actually kind of funny to picture him painstakingly going over every inch in the room for hair but not noticing that there is a "LEON DID IT" sign written in blood in the bathroom. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
StealThisSheen 03/25/21 1:07:30 AM #141:	Suprak the Stud posted... I wouldn't quite say it is gut reaction. It is more of a "go to my room, get the screwdriver, walk back down the hall, slowly take the door off of its hinges, go in and stab someone" reaction. He didn't quite kill her in self defense. I don't mean gut reaction as in literally self defense. I mean his deciding to kill her was a gut reaction to what had just happened. He wasn't planning to kill her before she tried to kill him, that much is obvious. Her actions are what directly make him decide to kill. It's very much a "Holy shit, they're trying to kill me. Well, I'll kill them first, then" thing with him. --- Seplito Nash, Smelling Like the Vault since 1996 Step FOUR! Get Paid! <cite>StealThisSheen posted [p:952087239] in The Defini... [t:79310930]...</cite> <quote>Suprak the Stud posted... </cite> <quote>I wouldn't quite say it is gut reaction. It is more of a "go to my room, get the screwdriver, walk back down the hall, slowly take the door off of its hinges, go in and stab someone" reaction. He didn't quite kill her in self defense.</quote> I don't mean gut reaction as in literally self defense. I mean his deciding to kill her was a gut reaction to what had just happened. He wasn't planning to kill her before she tried to kill him, that much is obvious. Her actions are what directly make him decide to kill. It's very much a "Holy shit, they're trying to kill me. Well, I'll kill them first, then" thing with him. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
azuarc 03/25/21 1:40:17 AM #142:	StealThisSheen posted... Right, but it's a realistic reaction at that point. Up until then, he didn't seem interested in the killing game at all. But suddenly she tries to kill him almost right away, which tells him A. She could try again B. Somebody else could try, the killing game has clearly actually begun to some people That'd definitely cause a sense of urgency, so he saw the opportunity to try to "win" and get out of there and took it. This was always my reasoning. --- Only the exceptions can be exceptional. <cite>azuarc posted [p:952087921] in The Defini... [t:79310930]...</cite> <quote>StealThisSheen posted... </cite> <quote>Right, but it's a realistic reaction at that point. Up until then, he didn't seem interested in the killing game at all. But suddenly she tries to kill him almost right away, which tells him A. She could try again B. Somebody else could try, the killing game has clearly actually begun to some people That'd definitely cause a sense of urgency, so he saw the opportunity to try to "win" and get out of there and took it.</quote> This was always my reasoning. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Suprak the Stud 03/25/21 1:44:50 AM #143:	Oh I definitely agree with part of that, the only distinction here to me is that he isn't trying to kill Sayaka. He's trying to kill 14 people, 13 of which were not trying to kill him. The gap between the attack and the murder is long enough, to me, that he has to realize what he's doing. I mean, not that the distinction is hugely important to me. I just think it makes the most sense this way. Me ranking Leon low is a result of him having like three lines and no character. --- Moops? "I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion." <cite>Suprak the Stud posted [p:952088009] in The Defini... [t:79310930]...</cite> <quote>Oh I definitely agree with part of that, the only distinction here to me is that he isn't trying to kill Sayaka. He's trying to kill 14 people, 13 of which were not trying to kill him. The gap between the attack and the murder is long enough, to me, that he has to realize what he's doing. I mean, not that the distinction is hugely important to me. I just think it makes the most sense this way. Me ranking Leon low is a result of him having like three lines and no character. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Suprak the Stud 03/25/21 1:51:12 AM #144:	Up next: a case that seems to be missing some pretty important evidence --- Moops? "I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion." <cite>Suprak the Stud posted [p:952088124] in The Defini... [t:79310930]...</cite> <quote>Up next: a case that seems to be missing some pretty important evidence </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Anagaram 03/25/21 1:51:51 AM #145:	Suprak the Stud posted... Oh I definitely agree with part of that, the only distinction here to me is that he isn't trying to kill Sayaka. He's trying to kill 14 people, 13 of which were not trying to kill him. The gap between the attack and the murder is long enough, to me, that he has to realize what he's doing. In total fairness to Leon, Monokuma only explains that everyone dies if you win after the first murder takes place. --- This is an alt. <cite>Anagaram posted [p:952088134] in The Defini... [t:79310930]...</cite> <quote>Suprak the Stud posted... </cite> <quote>Oh I definitely agree with part of that, the only distinction here to me is that he isn't trying to kill Sayaka. He's trying to kill 14 people, 13 of which were not trying to kill him. The gap between the attack and the murder is long enough, to me, that he has to realize what he's doing.</quote>In total fairness to Leon, Monokuma only explains that everyone dies if you win after the first murder takes place. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
_SecretSquirrel 03/25/21 1:51:54 AM #146:	When it comes to Leon, I do somewhat buy into the alternate theory that he legitimately wanted to check up on Sayaka after the initial attack since he did injure her hand with the prop sword in the initial scuffle. Hence why he stupidly broke into the bathroom. But Sayaka was so far gone that she went at him again and he had to kill her at that point. It not like he really gets a chance to explain himself, as he was still frantically trying to explain himself before he gets cut off. He only gets a long enough explanation for Celeste to rebut his claim that he purely killed in self-defense, but he never gets the chance to elaborate on why he entered the bahtroom. Either way, he still has one of the more sympathetic motives in the series as he only attacked at someone who attacked first, and was also the only killer in the series who didn't know that the entire class would die if he got away with it, as Monokuma doesn't explain that part until after the murder. --- Agent Triple Zero at your service! This line reserved for the true greatone, azuarc, winner of Game of the Decade! <cite>_SecretSquirrel posted [p:952088135] in The Defini... [t:79310930]...</cite> <quote>When it comes to Leon, I do somewhat buy into the alternate theory that he legitimately wanted to check up on Sayaka after the initial attack since he did injure her hand with the prop sword in the initial scuffle. Hence why he stupidly broke into the bathroom. But Sayaka was so far gone that she went at him again and he had to kill her at that point. It not like he really gets a chance to explain himself, as he was still frantically trying to explain himself before he gets cut off. He only gets a long enough explanation for Celeste to rebut his claim that he purely killed in self-defense, but he never gets the chance to elaborate on why he entered the bahtroom. Either way, he still has one of the more sympathetic motives in the series as he only attacked at someone who attacked first, and was also the only killer in the series who didn't know that the entire class would die if he got away with it, as Monokuma doesn't explain that part until after the murder. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Anagaram 03/25/21 1:52:26 AM #147:	Suprak the Stud posted... Up next: a case that seems to be missing some pretty important evidence 2-3, referring to how it's never explained what weapon Mikan used to kill Hiyoko or how she sonic speeded around the island. --- This is an alt. <cite>Anagaram posted [p:952088143] in The Defini... [t:79310930]...</cite> <quote>Suprak the Stud posted... </cite> <quote>Up next: a case that seems to be missing some pretty important evidence</quote>2-3, referring to how it's never explained what weapon Mikan used to kill Hiyoko or how she sonic speeded around the island. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
_stingers_ 03/25/21 7:18:47 AM #148:	1-1 is so bad because the Leon on the wall thing is just way too blatant. There has to be almost nobody who doesn't figure that out right away. I get it's the tutorial case and all but they did not execute in a way that makes it enjoyable to play when you have to watch the toddlers meander along for an hour. I almost quit the game entirely after that because it gave me such low expectations for the rest of the game --- Congrats Black Turtle! <cite>_stingers_ posted [p:952092435] in The Defini... [t:79310930]...</cite> <quote>1-1 is so bad because the Leon on the wall thing is just way too blatant. There has to be almost nobody who doesn't figure that out right away. I get it's the tutorial case and all but they did not execute in a way that makes it enjoyable to play when you have to watch the toddlers meander along for an hour. I almost quit the game entirely after that because it gave me such low expectations for the rest of the game </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MrSmartGuy 03/25/21 10:32:32 AM #149:	I said this in our collab top video games ranking topic here on the board, but the reason I have both DR2 and V3 in my top 10 of all-time, and DR1 might be bottom 100 is because the former two treat the player with respect and allow them to actually make their own conclusions. DR1 never stops treating the player like they're 9. You have 7 flashbacks to the same fucking scene in the script. There is a flashback to a scene that took place not even 2 minutes prior. You aren't given multiple truth bullets, even on the middle difficulty, until the second half of the game. Makoto asks the dumbest questions, and says the stupidest shit, and the dynamic between Byakuya and Kyoko means you are never given a chance to figure anything out on your own. I think the only time anything Makoto does that comes off as a fluent deduction is the Mondo slip up in Chapter 2. It's horrendous how little the game thinks of its player the entire time, and it's kinda ruined most of DR1's cases in general for me. --- Xbox GT/PSN name/Nintendo ID: TatteredUniform http://www.scuffletown.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/tRBE1.gif <cite>MrSmartGuy posted [p:952096922] in The Defini... [t:79310930]...</cite> <quote>I said this in our collab top video games ranking topic here on the board, but the reason I have both DR2 and V3 in my top 10 of all-time, and DR1 might be bottom 100 is because the former two treat the player with respect and allow them to actually make their own conclusions. DR1 never stops treating the player like they're 9. You have 7 flashbacks to the same fucking scene in the script. There is a flashback to a scene that took place not even 2 minutes prior. You aren't given multiple truth bullets, even on the middle difficulty, until the second half of the game. Makoto asks the dumbest questions, and says the stupidest shit, and the dynamic between Byakuya and Kyoko means you are never given a chance to figure anything out on your own. I think the only time anything Makoto does that comes off as a fluent deduction is the Mondo slip up in Chapter 2. It's horrendous how little the game thinks of its player the entire time, and it's kinda ruined most of DR1's cases in general for me. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
hombad46 03/25/21 10:42:20 AM #150:	MrSmartGuy posted... You have 7 flashbacks to the same fucking scene in the script. Mukuro Ikusaba, the 16th student lying hidden somewhere in this school. The one they call the Ultimate Despair. Watch out for her. --- "That's Engarde hairflip metal detector tier btw" -XIII_rocks <cite>hombad46 posted [p:952097248] in The Defini... [t:79310930]...</cite> <quote>MrSmartGuy posted... </cite> <quote>You have 7 flashbacks to the same fucking scene in the script.</quote> Mukuro Ikusaba, the 16th student lying hidden somewhere in this school. The one they call the Ultimate Despair. Watch out for her. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Topic List	Page List: 1, 2, 3, 4

Board 8 > The Definitive Ranking Of All Cases And Characters From Danganronpa 1/2 (+) Yeah! (+)

Board 8 > The Definitive Ranking Of All Cases And Characters From Danganronpa 1/2