Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 359: Two Scoops of Impeachment

(+) Yeah! (+)

Unfortunately Alabama has shown that it's bare minimum standard for electing any Republican is "not literally a pedophile"

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Roy Moore might legitimately be smarter than Tuberville.

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red sox 777 posted...

Corrik, do you have evidence for the claim that waitresses typically make $30/hr inclusive of tips?

I said 25 on average now. I said they will make $30/hr if you take their current wages and add $11-$12 more an hour to it.

I have never met a waitress that makes less than $20/hr when averaged out no matter how shitty the restaurant was. Sure they have bad days sometimes, but it averages out with the good days. And, yes, they ALWAYS bitch about the minimum wage laws and say how they are filing federal lawsuits for not being made whole on minimum wage, then when pointing out it is their average for their paycheck and that they made way more than it when they show they break down their pays, despite their one or two lousy days... They lose their shit about it.

Averaging out everyone I have ever talked to, it is about $25/hr... And that's not accounting for the fact that waitresses tend to not claim all their tips. It is why they hate typically when people pay with cards a lot. Because 1. They don't get their tips right away. And 2. Their tips are guaranteed to get taxed this way.

I think the IRS estimates 40% of go unclaimed, which is why it is hard to get an accurate number on what the average salaries are. I know a lot of people who claim just as much tips as they think won't generate a red flag on their taxes. And untaxed money is worth more than taxed money, obviously.

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/02/how-much-do-waiters-really-earn-in-tips/385515/

This leaves you with just an estimate on what is reported in tips. Which is going to be severely lower than actual.

The biggest benefit to getting rid of tipping in America would be for the IRS to get more taxable revenue in. The end game though is much, much lower incomes for waitresses if this change would happen. You think they are helping them out when they are actually hurting them by taking money from them, expected jobs being lost, prices rising to consumers, and again... All during a pandemic ravaging the industry.


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People getting paid more/less based on being dishonest/honest about paying taxes on their tips is not great. Fixing it (so that the honest ones get paid more even if the dishonest ones end up making less) seems a lot more like a feature than a bug tbqh!

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LordoftheMorons posted...

People getting paid more/less based on being dishonest/honest about paying taxes on their tips is not great. Fixing it (so that the honest ones get paid more even if the dishonest ones end up making less) seems a lot more like a feature than a bug tbqh!

Then be clear about what you want. You don't want more wages for waitresses. You want more taxable income accounted for to generate taxes. If that's your goal, then so be it. This will work for that. (Though I doubt tipping ever goes away and you just essentially made waitresses making on par if not more than a lot of nurses when they still continue to not report most of their tips on top of this minimum wage).

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TheRock1525 posted...

Roy Moore might legitimately be smarter than Tuberville.

My puppy might legitimately be smarter than Tuberville.

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Corrik7 posted...

Then be clear about what you want. You don't want more wages for waitresses. You want more taxable income accounted for to generate taxes. If that's your goal, then so be it. This will work for that. (Though I doubt tipping ever goes away and you just essentially made waitresses making on par if not more than a lot of nurses when they still continue to not report most of their tips on top of this minimum wage).

No, I'd like (honest) waitstaff to make more. If some people were already pocketing a ton extra through tax fraud though then I'm not gonna feel sorry for them at all when that becomes much harder to do, particularly when their legal pay is simultaneously going up.

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Tommy Tuberville is the ideal Senator. An elected official represents the will of the people, and I can't think of a better representation of Alabama than him.

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I wanna make it clear, lordofthemorons. It is 40% of tips are estimated unclaimed, not 40% of people are estimated to not fully claim them.

Almost everyone claims a portion of them. However, almost everyone also doesn't claim all of their tips also. Part of that indeed is the system. How much of your wages would you claim if we gave you your wages piecemeal throughout the day with no rhyme or reason and asked you to tally what you made at the end of the year. Also, it is purposeful too. I remember my stepmother asking me if this amount sounded like enough to not get audited or this amount or etc. (She was making easily 35+/hr as a cocktail waitress.). I said you know you are supposed to claim them all right? She said how do you expect me to know how much it was... If you tell me a single girl there knows how much they got in tips, they are a liar. She did get audited too lol much to her chagrin and ended up owing based on average cocktail waitress salaries (because they themself couldn't figure out what it would really be).

So, yes, you would say this would be a better system to eliminate that, especially inadvertent underreporting. But, it isn't benefiting the honest and punishing the dishonest. It is punishing pretty much the entire field across the board if it results in no tipping because it's a pay cut. Also it results in increased costs to the consumer, cut hours and/or eliminated jobs... All during a pandemic ravaging the industry.

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Tommy Tuberville wasnt even a good coach!

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ResetERA is ironically actually having an actual debate about this now. It's ironic those extremists can debate some topics fine while some in this topic jumps down someone's throat off the bat.

One reply responded with, "As a career bartender, $15 an hour and eliminating tipping would literally more than cut my income in half. Sorry if I'm coming off like an ass, but at that point what becomes my motivation for giving you an exceptional experience if I can go bag groceries for the same pay?"

That's the question. Is this actually raising their wages?

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Lets screw everyone over because a portion of wait-staff make more in tips on a good night than they would with $15 minimum wage.

PerfectChaosZ posted...

Lets screw everyone over because a portion of wait-staff make more in tips on a good night than they would with $15 minimum wage.

It's more like, let's screw over almost everyone (in those fields) so the government gets more in taxes ironically.

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Corrik7 posted...

It's more like, let's screw over almost everyone (in those fields) so the government gets more in taxes ironically.

So do you believe all service industry should work on tips?

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Samurai7 posted...

So do you believe all service industry should work on tips?

I mean, I personally am all aboard the make them minimum wage workers and get rid of tips from society forever, and make them accountable to the government for their rightful taxes.

I just am not going to package it as me saying I am trying to give them liveable wages when I am actually cutting their pays with the removal of tipping or going to be gungho if tipping remains as is with the wages to pay them more than jobs with high responsibilities to society.

That said, I also don't think going about this idea by increasing expenses to a ravaged service industry at this time is the best time for this either.

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I think it's pretty darn likely people will still get tips.

Maybe not as many, but tipping isn't going away entirely in the USA, even if their salaries are increased.

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starting to sound like if the minimum wage goes up, some jobs should be paid above even the new minimum wage

damn what a concept

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

starting to sound like if the minimum wage goes up, some jobs should be paid above even the new minimum wage

damn what a concept

Not going to happen. If it did, the lower class would be in the same position as prior anyways so it would be pointless anyways. And, no job is going to jump by $12/hr to match waitresses anyways, if they retain their tips.

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I would expect a good bartender to make 30 dollars an hour tbh

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Lolo_Guru posted...

Maybe not as many, but tipping isn't going away entirely in the USA, even if their salaries are increased.

This is my train of thought. Granted I have no actual evidence to back it up, just basing it off how I tip.

I always tipped because of the service, not because of how much or how little the person is making.

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also does Canada not have any bartenders? must they go without mixed drinks because they can't figure this shit out?

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obligatory

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4sbYy0WdGQ

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

I would expect a good bartender to make 30 dollars an hour tbh

Bartending in many rural areas (around me at least) is also ridden with under the table jobs also altogether. You have clubs where they force the bartender to join the club as part of the job and pay their dues, then they are technically "volunteers" that the club compensates with a club tip per hour... lol.

Now, when I say many, I mean many. That said, one girl I personally know pissed me off because she is working whenever not shutdown for the pandemic 40 hours a week under the table at $9/hr plus tips on top... while collecting PUA and got a like 15k or some odd backpay check from when she applied to it... and is on social security.

She got mad when I said she is committing fraud because she has been convinced by people in my area that this is a proper use of PUA... (I know so many people who took advantage of that system because when it was set up it just approved everyone... and they all are like... I told the truth and it said I was eligible!)...

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https://nypost.com/2021/01/14/wife-of-queens-proud-boy-arrested-in-capitol-plot-wants-a-divorce/

Lmfao... talk about trying to cash in. I always doubt these stories like this... (my partner I was married to for years is such a monster after they got caught so I am divorcing them!). Like the Chauvin stuff, where the judge doubts the legitimacy of the divorce even.

This woman wants 2 million dollars to get divorced and to try and sue others for even more money? Like, what?

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How come people who are against the $15 minimum wage suddenly start acting like waiters and waitresses are the only job in this country, and refuse to talk about any other jobs?

Almost like they're being disengenuous!

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

How come people who are against the $15 minimum wage suddenly start acting like waiters and waitresses are the only job in this country, and refuse to talk about any other jobs?

Almost like they're being disengenuous!

Im against a $15 minimum wage because it solves no underlying problems and is a tax on poor people. My household income is $150,000. Do you think I give a shit if burgers jump $2 each? I dont care at all. The people who get screwed are the people who were previously making $15 an hour who now make no extra money and are suddenly having hugely inflated costs, or the people previously making $9 an hour and were replaced by a machine.

Baisc income and free or dramatically reduced healthcare costs are both infinitely better policies

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Glad to see people keep falling for the no-evidence lie of "if we raise minimum wage, prices will skyrocket" when actually doing so has consistently demonstrated that even if prices went up, it wasn't by nearly enough to offset the increased purchasing power of the increased wages

Reg posted...

Glad to see people keep falling for the no-evidence lie of "if we raise minimum wage, prices will skyrocket" when actually doing so has consistently demonstrated that even if prices went up, it wasn't by nearly enough to offset the increased purchasing power of the increased wages

Thats in aggregate. Tell that to the people who currently are making $15 an hour.

I have a masters degree in Economics. I know what Im talking about on this.

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https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/534376-gop-sen-lankford-apologizes-to-black-constituents-for-opposing-election

BACKPEDAL BACKPEDAL

Wonder how many more we'll see this across the GOP now that the stance is collapsing around them?

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Good- i prefer backpedaling over doubling down

The sad thing is that the past five years have shown that doubling down is better for one's career

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How many if these opposes actually believed what they were spouting, honestly? Has to be less than was can be counted on two hands. The Q people, Tuberville, who else?

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Tipping culture is the worst and anything that gets rid of it is good

imo

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https://twitter.com/ThePlumLineGS/status/1350109485482844160

Thinking emoji

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

How come people who are against the $15 minimum wage suddenly start acting like waiters and waitresses are the only job in this country, and refuse to talk about any other jobs?

Almost like they're being disengenuous!

Nobody said anything about the $15 hour minimum wage in regards to it in general. You are shifting goal posts instead of discussing what is in front of you.

If you want to talk about that we can as well. Why try to act like they are the same discussion unless being "disingenuous"?

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FFDragon posted...

Tipping culture is the worst and anything that gets rid of it is good

imo

I mean, it would be crazy if you didn't have this stance as part of the IRS for obvious tax reasoning lol.

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FD =/= FFD

I have to imagine you are just trolling us

Edit: Also I am fine with tipping in general for good service. I am not crazy about the fact that wages are so low for tipped positions that tipping becomes mandatory. Just because I work for the IRS doesn't mean I take personal offense to people not reporting their income correctly. I just call that job security.

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Ahh yes, it's clearly waiters not paying their fair share instead of Billionaires who use tax loopholes and dodge. Those are perfectly fine.

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Forceful_Dragon posted...

FD =/= FFD

I have to imagine you are just trolling us

You both shouldn't be allowed to post in the same topics.

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Ashethan posted...

Ahh yes, it's clearly waiters not paying their fair share instead of Billionaires who use tax loopholes and dodge. Those are perfectly fine.

Those are legal, duh
/s

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Ashethan posted...

Ahh yes, it's clearly waiters not paying their fair share instead of Billionaires who use tax loopholes and dodge. Those are perfectly fine.

Actually, ironically yes, billionaires are paying their fairshares if abusing loopholes and in comparison to people not reporting their income.

Like, that 100% is a factual statement. I am surprised you even said something like that based on how foolish it makes you seem.

That said, it was one of the biggest criticisms I had of Trump. His election build up in 2016 he spoke about how it made him smart to pay as little as possible on his taxes. He was correct. He would be utterly nonsensically dumb to have paid more than he had to of paid. However, this means he should have been well versed in said loopholes and also have been the one to end them. His failure to end these loopholes was one of his biggest failures. Every President seems to always never want to end these loopholes, which are legal - not reporting your income is not, but none seem to be willing to end the loopholes either. I wonder why...

(Hint: Because both parties are out to keep the rich rich.)


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BlinkingDrewScanlon.gif

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https://news.yahoo.com/man-pleads-guilty-drone-hits-061411105.html

Am I the only one that finds it weird this was a misdemeanor?

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ResetERA post

"When I was working as a waiter (2004 - 2011-ish), hourly wage in PA for tipped workers was $2.70/hr. The last waiting gig I had wasn't fine dining, but a high capacity/high volume bar-and-grille. In peak season (Spring/Summer, the place had a ton of outside seating), I was taking home close to $600 a night after tip-out. There were plenty of occasions where I took home more than that (usually if there was something special going on in the city). I was pretty damn good at my job, the amount I was bringing in was pretty impressive among the staff. That said, there were a handful of people making well more than me, and a group of folks on wait staff that weren't. I was somewhere in the upper-middle. What we ALL had in common though, is that we were all making significantly more than minimum wage.

I'm going to be honest; a lot of the conversation taking place in this thread is odd, because it's really not about service workers. A lot of these posts (not all, but a lot) are taking personal preference and centering the experience of the tipper, and dressing it up as "concern for the worker." "

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I'm not dressing it up.

Your job is to wait on me.

Your employer should pay you for that job, not me.

I don't tip the guy that mixes my paint at Home Depot.

I don't tip the guy that does my oil change.

I don't tip the guy that resets all the bones in my hand.

What is it about food that suddenly expects me to add 20% on top of things? Even more for delivery when you're charging me a delivery fee for ????? reason and then I'm still expected to tip?

It's dumb.

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I do tip my urologist, because I cannot pulverize my own kidney stones.

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You know, if i cared what other boards had to say about politics, I'd
Go to
Other
Boards?

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FFDragon posted...

I'm not dressing it up.

Your job is to wait on me.

Your employer should pay you for that job, not me.

I don't tip the guy that mixes my paint at Home Depot.

I don't tip the guy that does my oil change.

I don't tip the guy that resets all the bones in my hand.

What is it about food that suddenly expects me to add 20% on top of things? Even more for delivery when you're charging me a delivery fee for ????? reason and then I'm still expected to tip?

It's dumb.

Now the question is... do you believe that the people arguing for $15/hr minimum wage for tipping jobs are arguing for the removal of tips also? Or do you believe they are arguing for it on top? If you are arguing for it and the removal of tips, then you are arguing to reduce the pays for pretty much every server across the board - and increase in prices. Where as if you are arguing for it plus the tips, then the servers with no college degrees and such are now making more than the vast majority of nurses...

The problem is that people in this topic refuse to argue the nuance of this discussion and instead retreat to party line propaganda. EVERYONE DESERVES A LIVING WAGE! (They have it and vastly more, this will get even further for them or you will actually be reducing their wages).

And also refuse to acknowledge the pandemic ravaging that industry and what will happen with increasing their expenses at a time like this (more and more local restaurants going under).

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This is where heart and mind meet. One is arguing for a utopia. One is arguing based on reality.

If every solution is to raise wages across the board, costs go up across the board in that scenario and you are back at square one. If every solution is to just raise wages across the bottom, the middle class is the one that suffers.

The problem is that the rich are staying rich in these scenarios every time and we are just choosing whether to keep the poor poor or make even more poor also.

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I am incredibly fine with an increase in prices if it means removing tipping culture tbqh

Regardless of a minimum wage increase.

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Maybe we should do something about the rich then. Maybe make it so that, instead of raising prices to cover the cost of increased worker wages, they either accept smaller profits, or lower the wages of the people at the top of the company.

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