Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 359: Two Scoops of Impeachment

(+) Yeah! (+)

Too bad all the funniest stories were already covered by previous topic titles.

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The Democrats don't push harder against the Pubs but have to look like they're opposed for the same reason Tom has to pretend to hunt his best friend Jerry- if they knew Tom wasn't really trying to finish Jerry they might get a new cat that actually does want to kill them so they have to look like they're in a constant battle while secretly being friends.

Yeah but Jerry is a total asshole.
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Anyways, I guess what I'm saying is, Biden is doing exactly what his campaign platform said he would. That's the platform that won the election, for which he received a mandate. So if people have problems with that, they should lay the blame at the feet of primary voters, not Biden, who is doing what he promised he would do.

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Inviso posted...

Too bad all the funniest stories were already covered by previous topic titles.

you sure

https://twitter.com/ndrew_lawrence/status/1349521903686455298

Giuliani defends his "Trial by Combat" incitement by saying he was referencing "that very famous documentary about fictitious medieval England"

ib4 someone tries to defend Giuliani here by noting that Game of Thrones was in part verrrry loosely based on the War of the Roses

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htaeD posted...

Yeah but Jerry is a total asshole.

So the comparison works

PerfectChaosZ posted...

The Democrats don't push harder against the Pubs but have to look like they're opposed for the same reason Tom has to pretend to hunt his best friend Jerry- if they knew Tom wasn't really trying to finish Jerry they might get a new cat that actually does want to kill them so they have to look like they're in a constant battle while secretly being friends.

https://youtu.be/qltjIXLx5Cw

Hmmmmmm.......

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I would have gone with "Double Impeachment All The Way!"
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Could also be that this country is far more conservative than the smaller progressive wing of the Democrats wants to admit, and it's also entirely possible that the threat of "socialism" was enough to drive out 10 million new voters (at least) for Donald Trump in 2020, making 74 million Americans who saw four years of Trump and thought "This is what I want, and the country is doing fine as is."

That's the needle Democrats have to thread: 74 million voters either supported the four years of Trump so much (or were so terrified that ANYTHING the Democrats do is "socialism"), and one must consider that a sizable chunk of the Democrats want moderate governance, and if BOTH sides go far to the extremes (and yes, I know, in Europe, the progressive wing would be center-left or whatever), then those moderates feel abandoned and look at the election as "neither side represents my views, so I'm either not going to vote, or I'll flip to the GOP since they nominally promise to lower my taxes". It's on the voters and the population of this country.

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Trump is basically Palpatine minus the evil laughs.

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https://twitter.com/tvietor08/status/1349792913325125633?s=21

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putting liberals in quotes because obviously there are more than two groups, but for the purpose of this discussion were lumping Dems into Libs and the GOP into Cons.

It amazes me when people literally do Republicans jobs for them of scaring people into supporting Republican-lite policies, and I get accused of being the fucking Republican.

The reality is, our GOVERNMENT is designed to be conservative, but our people are not.

The Senate and Electoral College literally serve one purpose, and thats to thwart the MUCH LARGER group of Liberal minded people from crushing the smaller group of Conservatives.

Our culture is almost 100% Liberal. Our media is almost 100% Liberal.

Liberals like Inviso who are too afraid to boldly support what they think is right over fear of Conservatives are 100% why we dont have Medicare for All, so yes, I guess youre right, I blame the population of the country.

And another reason Conservatives get as far as they do, despite being wildly outnumbered, is because they hold no such fear. No Conservative has ever in their life considered but what will the Left think? before putting forth a bill or action towards realizing their beliefs.

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LinkMarioSamus posted...

Trump is basically Palpatine minus the evil laughs.

That's very mean to Palpatine.
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He based his election strategy on trying to pull a wounded gazelle gambit against BLM and Antifa rioters.

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https://twitter.com/ClaraJeffery/status/1349764028965416960

Ivanka and Jared wouldn't let the Secret Service detail assigned to them use any of their half-dozen bathrooms. At first they had to resort to a porta-potty, then literally heading to Obama's house, before finally having to rent - at taxpayer expense - a basement studio starting in September 2017.

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Wow that whole family is just a steaming pile of excrement huh

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Our culture is almost 100% Liberal. Our media is almost 100% Liberal.

Strong disagree.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

And another reason Conservatives get as far as they do, despite being wildly outnumbered, is because they hold no such fear. No Conservative has ever in their life considered but what will the Left think? before putting forth a bill or action towards realizing their beliefs.

Strong agree.

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Murkowski on impeachment:

https://twitter.com/burgessev/status/1349805637908242433?s=21

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https://twitter.com/katyonmsnbc/status/1349802363901661187?s=21

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LordoftheMorons posted...

Murkowski on impeachment:

https://twitter.com/burgessev/status/1349805637908242433?s=21

inb4 "the House was correct to impeach but he's learned his lesson, convicting would be inappropriate"

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https://twitter.com/riegerreport/status/1349802846464651267?s=21

And from the previous tweet they got the cop murderer with the fire extinguisher. Literally a retired firefighter.

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Collins and Murkowski can't say that again a year later. Obviously he did not learn the lesson they wanted him to learn from impeachment #1. I think they are very high probability votes to convict, although it isn't great for them to say that until they've heard the evidence that will be presented at trial.

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Our culture is not liberal and our media is not liberal. Socially liberal, sure, to an extent. But we're still a society that glorifies the police, glorifies guns, glorifies the rich (every time they do something reasonably decent), and most importantly, we're a society made up of individuals who all think we're the center of the fucking universe, and that any effort to do something that might not benefit a specific individual directly is therefore not wasting time on in the eyes of that individual.

Again, 74 million voters turned out in favor of the man who would, not two months later, lead to an insurrectionist attack on the U.S. Capitol. And as has been pointed out the margin of victory by which Biden won a handful of states that gave him the electoral college is even slimmer than that by which Trump beat Hillary in 2016. And you could make the case that, by running a moderate candidate like Biden it made enough swing voters feel safe enough to vote Democrat and prevent a second term of Trump.

I'm making all my arguments from a strategic perspective, not from the perspective of people actually casting the votes. You have to consider the fact that, for a lot of moderates, they don't WANT the progressive policies you believe are wildly popular. It's not that they're scared of offending and scaring off GOP voters. They're likely not taking that too much into consideration the way I do. For all the polls of M4A being super popular...those rarely take into the account the follow-up question of "Would you support tax increases in order to fund M4A?" And I know that Republicans don't have to deal with those sorts of follow-up questions. No GOP voter thought "Well, it seems highly illogical that we'll be able to build an entire wall along our Southern border and then get Mexico to pay for it. I ask you, Donald, how do you intend on implementing this?" They just shouted "Build the Wall!" and ignored the logistics. That's just not how Democratic voters are, and it's probably the reason Warren, and then Bernie, hit walls in the primaries the second they started getting pushed on how they'd pay for their proposals.

Another reason why the GOP doesn't fear what the left will think is because the GOP is a far-right party. There are a few moderates, but most moderate conservatives are in the right wing of the Democratic Party. They're center-left to center-right. The GOP, meanwhile, is far-right, and then when the tea party cropped up to start pushing them to the extreme right, it really wasn't a big deal to acquiesce to their demands in exchange for power. It's not like the extreme right was that much of a policy shift for the far right, after all. Half the country is onboard with the far-right, whereas the Dems have to consider that the majority of their base are moderates, and aren't going to accept "far left" ideals. The Dems are too big of a tent, but they kinda have to be, because again, half the country is gleefully onboard with the far-right of the GOP.

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Inviso posted...

But we're still a society that glorifies the police, glorifies guns, glorifies the rich (every time they do something reasonably decent), and most importantly, we're a society made up of individuals who all think we're the center of the fucking universe, and that any effort to do something that might not benefit a specific individual directly is therefore not wasting time on in the eyes of that individual.

Yeah, most of this is still (neo)liberal

Like, you are describing California

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Yeah, most of this is still (neo)liberal

Aka conservative.

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American culture is extremely conservative and I'm baffled that anyone would say otherwise

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Inviso posted...

Aka conservative.

Not really, it's distinct. Especially in America where our conservatives are REALLY far right.

The welfare state and other light "social democracy" is still neoliberal. If we are arguing for, say, European style social policies, most of those are also considered neoliberal, even though they are less conservative than the US.

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Not really, it's distinct. Especially in America where our conservatives are REALLY far right.

The welfare state and other light "social democracy" is still neoliberal. If we are arguing for, say, European style social policies, most of those are also considered neoliberal, even though they are less conservative than the US.

I think that's the difference of opinion. I believe our political spectrum has shifted SO far right that conservatives are the center now, and the modern GOP is just extremist.

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KamikazePotato posted...

American culture is extremely conservative and I'm baffled that anyone would say otherwise

Based on what??

Also "guns" aren't conservative any more than "free speech" is conservative.

They're things that the Liberals have let Conservatives claim, but those aren't inherently conservative.

Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary.

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KamikazePotato posted...

American culture is extremely conservative and I'm baffled that anyone would say otherwise

It really is more diverse than you think and I basically agree with Tony that the structure of our society is conservative and conditions people, but the people themselves aren't necessarily. Think about how conservative we are and yet how much we constantly glorify rebellion in media and history. US culture is a big pile of contradictions like that.

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Inviso posted...

I think that's the difference of opinion. I believe our political spectrum has shifted SO far right that conservatives are the center now, and the modern GOP is just extremist.

Yeah I think this is just a matter of perspective. I'd just say that the GOP's extremism is just exactly what American conservatism looks like and always has been, and I do think there are a LOT of these far-right types in America but not an outright majority. But there's plenty of grey area in the center for the left and right to fight over. Like, the suburban parents who vote R but are "socially liberal" don't fit my definition here but they are useful idiots for it.

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Tony managing to hit the glorifies guns AND extreme self-interest points of conservatism at the same time.

Additionally, I should point out that we, as a society, are extremely capitalist and extremely religious (specifically Christian). Both of these conservative traits come together to form the Christmas shopping season.

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Add another one to the pardon watch:

https://twitter.com/JenniferJJacobs/status/1349819969211662349

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Espeon posted...

Tony managing to hit the glorifies guns AND extreme self-interest points of conservatism at the same time.

Additionally, I should point out that we, as a society, are extremely capitalist and extremely religious (specifically Christian). Both of these conservative traits come together to form the Christmas shopping season.

This is literally Liberalism.


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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

This is literally Liberalism.

Its conservatism. What exactly do you think conservatism IS if not this?

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My dude, what do you think Liberalism is?

Liberalism is not anti-free market, anti-religious, or against self-interest.

You seem to be defacto arguing that Joe Biden, Obama, Hillary, Bill, etc are all Conservatives, which makes our years of posting in this topic series just wildly confusing considering how many times you've gotten SO SO mad at me for comparing Democrats to Republicans.


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Gonna just drop a hot take:

The GOP has more in common with the (actually) conservative politics of places like Russia, China, Japan, and Brazil than it does with the "conservative" parties of social democratic nations like Canada or some of the European ones that get held up and we should all just stop pretending otherwise.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

My dude, what do you think Liberalism is?

Liberalism is not anti-free market, anti-religious, or against self-interest.

You seem to be defacto arguing that Joe Biden, Obama, Hillary, Bill, etc are all Conservatives, which makes our years of posting in this topic series just wildly confusing considering how many times you've gotten SO SO mad at me for comparing Democrats to Republicans.

I didnt ask you to define liberalism. I asked you to define conservatism. What do you say separates liberalism from conservatism, if your definition of liberalism is my definition of conservatism?

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Our media and culture is not liberal at all.

What the hell.

What I'm learning is that the one common thing between liberals and conservatives in the US is that both sides believe they are in the cultural minority.

And that just feeds into the common cultural desire for rebellion I mentioned earlier <_<

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

What I'm learning is that the one common thing between liberals and conservatives in the US is that both sides believe they are in the cultural minority.

And that just feeds into the common cultural desire for rebellion I mentioned earlier <_<

They are. Both sides have a minority and there is also a center. The center is also a minority, for what it's worth. None of these groups constitute a majority.

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Espeon posted...

I didnt ask you to define liberalism. I asked you to define conservatism. What do you say separates liberalism from conservatism, if your definition of liberalism is my definition of conservatism?

Dude, what is your definition of Liberalism?

At its simplest definition, Conservatism is about preservation of the status quo and support of "personal liberty" with absolutely no regard for the side effects or results of those decisions.

The limits of individual freedom in a Conservative's mind are only for things that are themselves anti-Conservative, which is based on the the single absolute Conservative core value, which is fear. This inspires 99% of the acts they take which are seen as dissonant to individual freedom, but are really just acts of self-preservation of Conservatism.

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Leafeon13N posted...

Our media and culture is not liberal at all.

What the hell.

It absolutely is. When is the last time a "Conservative" movie has hit it big? Who is your favorite Conservative musician? Comedian? What's your favorite Conservative TV show? Video game?

Why do you think the Right is so insecure? They know "Liberals" own the arts and media, so what makes you think otherwise?

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I dont even Know what you are trying to argue here.

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Gonna just drop a hot take:

The GOP has more in common with the (actually) conservative politics of places like Russia, China, Japan, and Brazil than it does with the "conservative" parties of social democratic nations like Canada or some of the European ones that get held up and we should all just stop pretending otherwise.

...this is not a hot take.

This is like the coldest take going.

The DNC has more in common with the "conservative" parties of Canada, Europe, etc. than it does the "liberal" partiesin those places.

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Let me see if I can clear up cleanly.

Out media production is conservative.

The creators (sometimes) and social media teams for said media are liberal.

A small bubble example; everytime there's a gay kiss in a cartoon? The story is never from the creator is never that it was always going to happen or that it was encouraged, it's that they fought/convinced/demanded they be allowed to include it, and successed. Sometimes they don't, and we get things like Korra where they only got to do it because they were forced to move the show off of TV and to web premiers only.

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Leafeon13N posted...

I dont even Know what you are trying to argue here.

what is this response

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

Let me see if I can clear up cleanly.

Out media production is conservative.

The creators (sometimes) and social media teams for said media are liberal.

A small bubble example; everytime there's a gay kiss in a cartoon? The story is never from the creator is never that it was always going to happen or that it was encouraged, it's that they fought/convinced/demanded they be allowed to include it, and successed. Sometimes they don't, and we get things like Korra where they only got to do it because they were forced to move the show off of TV and to web premiers only.

Your counterfactual is an anecdote from a cartoon that ended in 2014.

Lets stick with this: Show me Conservative cartoons. If the majority are, it shouldn't be that hard.

Also how is "media production Conservative"?

Do you guys think that only Conservatives try to make money?

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And to piggyback off of that, if we actually had liberal media in general, a "gay kiss" would literally not even be a news story or something than anybody talked about in that context.

As it stands, Disney acts like they are the bastions of LGBT+ pride because that nobody background character in the cabin from Frozen was indirectly referenced to have a husband for 5 frames of animation.

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What's your favorite Conservative TV show? Video game?

one million cop shows, Call of Duty

a bunch of the really mainstream stuff our culture produces is conservative. All the cool award winner stuff tends to be more liberal oriented, but even within that we have like American Sniper sometimes
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