Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 343: Guilty Spark

(+) Yeah! (+)

We can have left wing fox news. Left wing fox News just isn't hacks. It is people like tyt

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

We can have left wing fox news. Left wing fox News just isn't hacks. It is people like tyt

Left wing fox news is literally CNN.

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Corrik7 posted...

Left wing fox news is literally CNN.

No, no it is not. CNN is not left wing at all

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Corrik7 posted...

Left wing fox news is literally CNN.

lol no

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red13n posted...

You are basically trying to argue Democrats have a whole bunch of power and aren't using it.

Its an overestimation of their ability.

The fact is the left doesn't want a biased network like Fox news, we'd never tune in. We are anti-authoritarian in that regard. It goes against our principles. We don't have left wing fox news because we -cant- have left wing fox news.

This isn't to say Democrats arent ineffective at using the media. This is the correct take. But to believe the left could have a fox news equivalent is delusional.

Not sure if the "You" you're referring to is me or someone else but...

Yes, I agree! And that's the "problem", in as much as it's a problem. By being a "big tent" party that doesn't adhere to a singular viewpoint, Democrats have a harder time selling their ideas. But also, there's a large contingent of Democrats don't want to just be spoon fed a narrative and not have to think.

If you're a Republican though, it's just "listen to Fox News and adhere to what they say". It's not exactly a surprise that Republicans are also the party more closely aligned with religion, "believing", and taking things on faith.

And yes, I know I'm painting in broad strokes here. There will always be exceptions that prove the rule.

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Corrik7 posted...

Left wing fox news is literally CNN.

MSNBC actually. Though that's slightly more polarizing, it's close. CNN is left but has some crossover, which is to say any at all.

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Seanchan posted...

Not sure if the "You" you're referring to is me or someone else but...

it was to pxl.

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January 20, 2021

every major social media site goes down all at once

your thoughts?

E: I somehow posted this in the wrong topic (thought I was in the one about YouTube being down) but hey it's relevant

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MSNBC is basically left wing fox news.

But as for "defund the police", as others have noted with the civil rights movement and mlk - activists message being unpopular is not an issue. Because the goal is to win the fight in the long term. Activists will never be popular in the short term, if the things they fought for require activism then they are likely radical as far as public opinion, and even if they are not, most people do not support the very idea of activism. (see this topic where folks mocked me for belonging to a political organization by suggesting I believed I was magic, or the massive backlash to blm protests even by allegedly sympathetic ears)

Activists may never see the day where the things they fight for are achieved, but the reason they stick to their guns is because activists are fundamentally focused on doing what they believe is right. A blm activist isn't going to be swayed from demanding the police be defunded because white moderates tell them it's bad messaging, because they know the white moderate being uncomfortable with their message is a result of the white moderate not being on their side, and not just bad messaging. It's the same reason nobody buys it when people say the protests are good but must remain peaceful. Everyone knows you really mean that it's fine to point out injustice as long as you don't impact their daily lives or actually demand anything really change.

Kinglicious posted...

MSNBC actually. Though that's slightly more polarizing, it's close. CNN is left but has some crossover, which is to say any at all.

I dislike all corporate media and MSNBC carries water for the Dem establishment (while constantly shitting on progressives and the Bernie wing), but they always stay decently in the realm of reality. Even with the worst of the worst Russian conspiracies that Maddow concocted, there is no major network remotely comparable to Fox News and the false equivalencies are so annoying.

A decent amount of people who watch Fox News literally think the left is a group of baby-eating "demon rats" that are being paid by George Soros to make us all communists or whatever.

Trust me, my dad is one of these people and I have completely lost him to this. He was once a pretty loving father and is now a white supremacist obsessed with Tucker Carlson. There's a reason I care about propaganda so much beyond just what it's done to my country, but because of what it's done to my family.

And now Hannity and Tucker are out there claiming fraud and undermining democracy itself on behalf of the GOP. These people are beyond fucking ghouls and you're simply lying to yourself you think shitty networks like CNN and MSNBC are anywhere remotely as bad/straight up dangerous.

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If you took out all the opinion shows, MSNBC and Fox News would be comparable. Their actual news divisions are legit but slanted to one side.

Its the opinion shows on Fox News that really push it heavily right. The opinion shows on MSNBC really cant keep up with that level of extremist fervor
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Also dunno why I put the "demon rats" line in there except that I hear it from my dad a lot, but it's obviously just a pejorative term - even Fox News watchers don't believe in literal demon rats. So that was a bad sentence to put "literally" in, my bad.

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As someone who reads fox news and cnn all the time, and watchs fox news and cnn here and there during regular news times. They are almost mirrors of one another in reporting but skew opposite ways.

I don't watch the opinion shit on either channel, so I dunno what they each have there. But as far as news goes, they are left wing fox.

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Okay yeah if you take away the primetime opinion people they're definitely comparable, but uhhh guys you know what gets all the millions of viewers right?

It's funny because my dad used to literally make fun of Hannity, albeit tamely, for being so biased. There has to be at least some part of his brain that remembers doing that and knows he's being had. But cognitive dissonance is powerful.

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Msnbc is not left wing either. It is democratic though, I will say that.

I watch fox news a lot too! Cnn is not left wing lol

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oh hey YouTube's back up. did I post this one yesterday I can't remember

https://youtu.be/mpOnt1cByT4

literally 90% of Fox News' tactics are just to say that the Dems are doing all the things they actually want to do, are already doing, or will eventually do. Fox News should forever be a case study in projection

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StartTheMachine posted...

oh hey YouTube's back up. did I post this one yesterday I can't remember

https://youtu.be/mpOnt1cByT4

literally 90% of Fox News' tactics are just to say that the Dems are doing all the things they actually want to do, are already doing, or will eventually do. Fox News should forever be a case study in projection

It's been a week since the election. Democrats refused to accept their defeat in 2016 for years. Once the recounts are over, and the lawsuits are over, and the Electoral College has cast its votes, and Congress has counted the electoral votes, most Republicans will accept that it is over.

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red sox 777 posted...

Democrats refused to accept their defeat in 2016 for years.

Just because you keep saying it doesn't make it true.

We accepted that by the number trump won the election. The legal votes and the electoral college victories were in his favor. This was not seriously disputed.

But because "nuance" is a thing that exists you can acknowledge that trump won and ALSO acknowledge that there was a legitimate attempt by Russia to influence our election.

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red sox 777 posted...

It's been a week since the election. Democrats refused to accept their defeat in 2016 for years. Once the recounts are over, and the lawsuits are over, and the Electoral College has cast its votes, and Congress has counted the electoral votes, most Republicans will accept that it is over.

Hillary conceded after one day and they never actually went after the courts or anything. I don't know what reality you're living in. Wait actually I do, it's that they blamed their loss on Russia (and everything but themselves), but there was actual Russian interference. Not saying we know that had much of an impact, but it actually happened. Mass voter fraud did not happen and a huge subset of the right WILL believe it did no matter the lack of evidence.

Take a look at conservative media outlets online. Because literally the majority of conservatives on YouTube are saying Trump will somehow still win, every one of my facebook friends that are on the right are convinced that the election was stolen. Like I discussed with foolmo before, I hope you are right, but everything I'm seeing tells me you won't be. Tens of millions of people will believe this election was somehow stolen.

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Tl;dr: red sox you are smarter than a significant portion of the Trump base and you know it

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i think it's a little unfair to paint democrats as 'big tent' and say republicans aren't. republicans are certainly big-tent. trump fits under it, fer god's sake

republicans have a few subfactions, many of which are narrow-interest voters whose limited commonalities are opposition to democrats and suppression of the (minority) poor.

1) the very rich that don't want to pay taxes
2) the anti-intellectual religious
3) the supremacists/nationalists

and don't forget
4) the libertarians (you can almost consider them a more intense subset of the rich). did you know that obamacare probably would have been repealed in 2017 if not for the libertarians, who thought the repeal wasn't cruel and thorough enough? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_Caucus#Rejection_of_American_Health_Care_Act_in_2017


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StartTheMachine posted...

Hillary conceded after one day and they never actually went after the courts or anything. I don't know what reality you're living in. Wait actually I do, it's that they blamed their loss on Russia (and everything but themselves), but there was actual Russian interference. Not saying we know that had much of an impact, but it actually happened. Mass voter fraud did not happen and a huge subset of the right WILL believe it did no matter the lack of evidence.

Take a look at conservative media outlets online. Because literally the majority of conservatives on YouTube are saying Trump will somehow still win, every one of my facebook friends that are on the right are convinced that the election was stolen. Like I discussed with foolmo before, I hope you are right, but everything I'm seeing tells me you won't be. Tens of millions of people will believe this election was somehow stolen.

As long as the recounts and lawsuits go forward, I think most of them will move on once the process has been completed. Our courts will give Trump a fair hearing and if he has insufficient evidence to support his theory of massive fraud, that'll satisfy people. Conservatives trust our judiciary, and moreover all the hearings will be public so they can evaluate the evidence themselves.

But do remember that a small percentage of people can be very very loud.

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Oh, looks like Ron Klain was confirmed right after I posted that, lol.

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Msnbc is not left wing either. It is democratic though, I will say that.

I watch fox news a lot too! Cnn is not left wing lol

democratic is an understatement.
it's literally 95% of the audience.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/04/01/americans-main-sources-for-political-news-vary-by-party-and-age/

ABC, NBC, and CBS get the best mix and would be the most neutral. also the most forgotten about as a result, amusingly.
CNN goes left. you can tell based on their hires that much.
MSNBC goes very left but at the Fox level. they definitely skew heavily towards establishment on both networks though they've got their exceptions (Tucker, Wallace for Fox, i have no idea for MSNBC).
there's no OANN equivalent i'm aware of, so you're stuck with breadtube for that.

they know who their audience is and appeal to them as such.

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Also, I've become increasingly suspicious of the comments section on Yahoo and Youtube - it's entirely possible that a lot of those posts are Russian or other foreign operatives/bots.

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red sox 777 posted...

It's been a week since the election. Democrats refused to accept their defeat in 2016 for years. Once the recounts are over, and the lawsuits are over, and the Electoral College has cast its votes, and Congress has counted the electoral votes, most Republicans will accept that it is over.

It's because they are all hypocrites. They screamed Russian collusion for years. When Russia just tried to sow discontent on both sides and basically did nothing outside of the ordinary. And republicans are just as hypocritical for telling them to shut up it is their president and to accept it and now they can't just the same.

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I hope you're right. But I think you're just too much of an old school conservative while the modern conservative party has left a lot of that thinking behind and replaced it with conspiratorial fetishism.

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banananor posted...

1) the very rich that don't want to pay taxes
2) the anti-intellectual religious
3) the supremacists/nationalists

1 and 2 tend to be along the same lines. And those that don't are 2 and 3.

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red sox 777 posted...

Also, I've become increasingly suspicious of the comments section on Yahoo and Youtube - it's entirely possible that a lot of those posts are Russian or other foreign operatives/bots.

russian ones tend to be spotted pretty easily and they honestly don't throw that much money in.
chinese would be the more difficult ones. also love to start shit but they've drastically improved, probably because they throw more money into it, already try to usurp culture as is, and have much, much better ties to native speakers.

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red sox 777 posted...

Also, I've become increasingly suspicious of the comments section on Yahoo and Youtube - it's entirely possible that a lot of those posts are Russian or other foreign operatives/bots.

Steven Crowder has 5 million subscribers. The 1.5+ million views he gets on most videos with Trumpians excited about somehow still winning the election are not bots.

I live in Tennessee and have talked to these people in person. My step-family and right-wing friends on facebook are also not bots.

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

Oh, looks like Ron Klain was confirmed right after I posted that, lol.

Good choice, especially since he headed up the US's ebola response

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Wanglicious posted...

there's no OANN equivalent i'm aware of, so you're stuck with breadtube for that.

now this is a very, very special take

I don't think anything Guiga or fuming posted last night tops this one

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Crowder legit pulls in numbers. he outdid everyone for post-election coverage online, we're talking 400k concurrent on youtube alone, not including anything BlazeTV. he's making nothing on advertising but that's gotta translate to money through subscriptions or merch.

for what it's worth he does speak out of both ends of his mouth and his argument mainly comes down to let the process go through, let's get good data, and let's see the results after audits, recounts, and court challenges. so that audience shouldn't be as much of a problem come late december. you'll definitely have your fringe or your group that says the books were cooked too well, that's true.

the senate republicans will definitely have an excuse to obstruct, that's going to be a thing. some will say trump should've won too, guaranteed. but most extreme worries - civil war - should be gone by then because even if biden were to be viewed as illegitimate there would be other concerns and other things to be mad about (e.g., lockdowns).

(edited for clarity)

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Though now that I think about it, you (E: Wang) may have just been talking about how right/left something is and I misinterpreted your statement, thinking you were talking about how propagandistic it was.

In which case fair enough and thank god

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StartTheMachine posted...

now this is a very, very special take

I don't think anything Guiga or fuming posted last night tops this one

if you think a community of communists and socialists isn't comparable to OANN, legit don't know what to tell you. it is, by definition, far left.

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Corrik7 posted...

When Russia just tried to sow discontent on both sides and basically did nothing outside of the ordinary.

I mean, Don Jr literally tweeted out a transcript about setting up a meeting to discuss colluding with Russia
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StartTheMachine posted...

Though now that I think about it, you (E: Wang) may have just been talking about how right/left something is and I misinterpreted your statement, thinking you were talking about how propagandistic it was.

In which case fair enough and thank god

in terms of propaganda... ehhh, i mean some of them sure but nowhere near the same level of success. if they were bigger maybe but as is, one is collection of youtubers, the other is a network with millions of backing and the literal president pushing them up. the scale is entirely different.

i'm just talking about left/right placement. OANN = far right, no far left network exists here, so breadtube's your best bet since that's far left.

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Wanglicious posted...

if you think a community of communists and socialists isn't comparable to OANN, legit don't know what to tell you. it is, by definition, far left.

See my last post - I corrected myself! I interpreted you talking about how propagandistic something was rather than how far on the right/left spectrum it was. By the latter metric you are 100% right! My bad again.

Wanglicious posted...

Crowder legit pulls in numbers. he outdid everyone for post-election coverage online, we're talking 400k concurrent on youtube alone, not including anything BlazeTV. he's making nothing on advertising but that's gotta translate to money through subscriptions or merch.

for what it's worth he does speak out of both ends of his mouth and his argument mainly comes down to let the process go through, let's get good data, and let's see the results after audits, recounts, and court challenges. so that audience shouldn't be as much of a problem come late december. you'll definitely have your fringe or your group that says the books were cooked too well, that's true. the senate republicans will definitely have an excuse to obstruct too. but most worries should be gone, even if biden were to be viewed as illegitimate, since there would be other concerns and other things to be mad about.

Okay I haven't been able to sit through more than 5 minutes of his ramblings (I find him so utterly unlikeable just personality-wise that it's very hard to listen to him) so this is actually decently reassuring.

It would almost make me feel bad for the viewers he's leading on if many of them weren't terrible hateful people


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I mean the far left by its very nature is so anti-capitalistic there's no way in hell that's being put on consumer TV. The far left is so insanely out of the acceptable range of political discourse in America.

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i feel like there needs to be more than one definition on the chart

there's left-right perspective, and then there's adherence to truth

something can be opinionated to the right or left, yet still inherently truthful and/or open about the lens they interpret things with. i think my main complaint with some of these networks is that they are ultimately willing to lie for "the cause"

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there just isn't enough of a political left in the US to actually have a 'left' media that has much influence. MSNBC and stuff like pod save america is for centrist dems, for vaguely left of center people there is breadtube, or TYT, but its reach is so small compared to the right wing apparatus, there is pretty far left wing podcasts but even the biggest ones get a couple hundred thousand views at most.

banananor posted...

i feel like there needs to be more than one definition on the chart

there's left-right perspective, and then there's adherence to truth

something can be opinionated to the right or left, yet still inherently truthful. i think my main complaint with some of these extra biased networks is that they are ultimately willing to lie for "the cause"

+1

I'm sure there are also some leftwing outlets that lie all of the time, but none of them have remotely the reach of Fox.

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StartTheMachine posted...

See my last post - I corrected myself! I interpreted you talking about how propagandistic something was rather than how far on the right/left spectrum it was. By the latter metric you are 100% right! My bad again.

whew, good to go.
and i that paragraph a bit because i realized a lot was just said in my head but never written. basically civil war concerns shouldn't be as big a deal. you will def have some say he's a cheater and whatnot but most of those complaints will just be wrapped up in an outrage of something else, like they'll bitch about lockdowns from an illegitimate president, they'll bitch about executive orders from an illegitimate president, etc.

basically it'd just be a wrapping to hate him but not the reason he gets hate.

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fuming I don't think you know what Breadtube is

it's filled with actual communists and socialists, very intelligent people that I am a fan of like Vaush and Thought Slime

if you're saying that's "vaguely left" then now you're just trying to have a dick measuring contest about how left you are. Breadtube is the term given to the actual far left on YouTube.

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Great stuff here in Biden's planned reversals of Trump's immigration policy (thread):

https://twitter.com/camiloreports/status/1326596382686404609

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LordoftheMorons posted...

If activists are the ones that want the change, and their priority is to actually succeed in affecting that change, then it's their responsibility to be effective messengers.

Abandoning your original goal is also not an effective way to achieve your goals

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I know people aren't paying attention to all the frivolous bullshit they're trying to bring up as evidence of voter fraud, but one of the poll watchers who was called today for the Republicans made a statement that he "found it suspicious that so many military votes were for Biden, since people in the military are supposed to be Republican".

That was it. That was what he was called for.

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Biden hasn't DONE much of anything anything yet to turn on - yet despite that there has been plenty of criticism of his potential cabinet picks and "unity" plan and stuff like that. There was plenty of criticism of his past record during the primary and except for the like two people who actually support Biden most people are on the same page.

Your position isn't unique, you're just angrier about it

I have a million posts to catch up on, but if youre on the Left and made a hostage vote for Biden, now is the time to not be his friend.

If you wait for him to do bad, there is a 100% chance he does it. Now is the time to let the Dems know not only do you exist, but you played for the team and they need to listen to you.

Extremely disappointing to see Chris literally respond Im blocking you to someone saying such a simple thing.

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foolm0r0n posted...

Abandoning your original goal is also not an effective way to achieve your goals

If the original goal is significant police reform (including taking some tasks away from the police and creating unarmed groups to do those tasks) then changing your messaging to make that clearer to people isn't abandoning your original goal

If your original goal is actually "abolish the police" then yeah, I guess you're abandoning it... but then you can't have it both ways and insist that what you're proposing is not something with which the vast majority of people currently strongly disagree.

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banananor posted...

4) the libertarians (you can almost consider them a more intense subset of the rich). did you know that obamacare probably would have been repealed in 2017 if not for the libertarians, who thought the repeal wasn't cruel and thorough enough? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_Caucus#Rejection_of_American_Health_Care_Act_in_2017

Libertarians want a much better healthcare system than the Republicans or Democrats can provide, so they're okay with leaving Obamacare up for a while until that's achieved. But Democrats would rather (and did in large numbers) vote for Trump than to admit help from libertarians.

Also Trump's "war on the freedom caucus" due to this caused the whole freedom caucus to fall in line with Trump, except Amash who left the party altogether because of it.

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