Poll of the Day > What will it take to have socialized healthcare?

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TaKun782 11/08/20 10:48:48 AM #1:	Honestly, there shouldn't be a paywall when it comes to health care. Its a luxury not to drop dead here in the U.S and its fucking scary. For example on how some things can go down, I once knew someone who had decent insurance. Needed to have an operation done to keep him healthy and going, but his insurance wouldn't allow it and wouldn't pay for it because they didn't deem it "necessary". I'm currently on Medicare myself because of the absolute fuckary that is mental health can take a toll and if it wasn't for Medicare, Id be dead, in debt, etc. The band plays on... I mean, I guess the only way around it is to play the system itself and lets say you have no insurance, no money, etc. You need to go to the hospital in triage. Ok. Dont want want a huge ass medical bill? No problem. Dont give them your real name. Dont give them your SS number, address or jack shit. Ive actually did this once when I had to be taken to the hospital due to suicidal idealizations last year. I never gave them any info and I was never billed anything. They didnt knew who I was, and I knew I was going to be fucked because I had no insurance, then theirs the ambulance trying to DP you as well too. But anyways...thats just my take and my honest opinion based on experience with our healthcare system in place. I know Burnie was aiming for it really hard when he was trying to run for presidency. And I highly doubt Biden will do anything. But on the flip side? At least the cost for insulin has went down recently Ive heard. Not by a huge margin, but it was a start. <cite>TaKun782 posted [p:946904910] in What will ... [t:79095084]...</cite> <quote>Honestly, there shouldn't be a paywall when it comes to health care. Its a luxury not to drop dead here in the U.S and its fucking scary. For example on how some things can go down, I once knew someone who had decent insurance. Needed to have an operation done to keep him healthy and going, but his insurance wouldn't allow it and wouldn't pay for it because they didn't deem it "necessary". I'm currently on Medicare myself because of the absolute fuckary that is mental health can take a toll and if it wasn't for Medicare, Id be dead, in debt, etc. The band plays on... I mean, I guess the only way around it is to play the system itself and lets say you have no insurance, no money, etc. You need to go to the hospital in triage. Ok. Dont want want a huge ass medical bill? No problem. Dont give them your real name. Dont give them your SS number, address or jack shit. Ive actually did this once when I had to be taken to the hospital due to suicidal idealizations last year. I never gave them any info and I was never billed anything. They didnt knew who I was, and I knew I was going to be fucked because I had no insurance, then theirs the ambulance trying to DP you as well too. But anyways...thats just my take and my honest opinion based on experience with our healthcare system in place. I know Burnie was aiming for it really hard when he was trying to run for presidency. And I highly doubt Biden will do anything. But on the flip side? At least the cost for insulin has went down recently Ive heard. Not by a huge margin, but it was a start. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mead 11/08/20 11:02:36 AM #2:	Enough people voting for candidates that support the idea --- The Betrayer <cite>Mead posted [p:946905337] in What will ... [t:79095084]...</cite> <quote>Enough people voting for candidates that support the idea </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Muscles 11/08/20 11:26:38 AM #3:	Why do people want the government involved in everything when they have shown time and time again that they suck compared to the private sector? It's like people don't understand the actual role the founding fathers intended for the country What we really need to do is get rid if Insurance companies, it's because of them everything went up in price (since you can charge an insurance company a lot more than an individual) and tax the hell out of douchebags like Shkreli --- Muscles Chicago Bears \| Chicago Blackhawks \| Chicago Bulls \| Chicago Cubs \| NIU Huskies <cite>Muscles posted [p:946906092] in What will ... [t:79095084]...</cite> <quote>Why do people want the government involved in everything when they have shown time and time again that they suck compared to the private sector? It's like people don't understand the actual role the founding fathers intended for the country What we really need to do is get rid if Insurance companies, it's because of them everything went up in price (since you can charge an insurance company a lot more than an individual) and tax the hell out of douchebags like Shkreli </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mead 11/08/20 12:31:01 PM #4:	Muscles posted... Why do people want the government involved in everything when they have shown time and time again that they suck compared to the private sector? Muscles posted... What we really need to do is get rid if Insurance companies, This is what happens when we defund education --- The Betrayer <cite>Mead posted [p:946908145] in What will ... [t:79095084]...</cite> <quote>Muscles posted... </cite> <quote>Why do people want the government involved in everything when they have shown time and time again that they suck compared to the private sector?</quote> Muscles posted... </cite> <quote>What we really need to do is get rid if Insurance companies,</quote> This is what happens when we defund education </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Lokarin 11/08/20 12:37:23 PM #5:	Mead posted... This is what happens when we defund education By the way, you can have Private Sector socialized health care. The biggest problem is non-standardized pricing in the healthcare sector. If a hypothetical Xray costs $50 to perform... why does it cost $70 here and $150 there and $40 there? That's incredibly silly. --- "Salt cures Everything!" My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/Nirakolov/videos <cite>Lokarin posted [p:946908355] in What will ... [t:79095084]...</cite> <quote>Mead posted... </cite> <quote> This is what happens when we defund education</quote> By the way, you can have Private Sector socialized health care. The biggest problem is non-standardized pricing in the healthcare sector. If a hypothetical Xray costs $50 to perform... why does it cost $70 here and $150 there and $40 there? That's incredibly silly. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BUMPED2002 11/08/20 12:39:33 PM #6:	Let's start here, most other industrialized countries who aren't as wealthy as the US have universal healthcare, free or reduced college, paid maternity leave etc and the US does not. Now the question is why is that? Other countries also take better care of their elderly than does the US. Other countries also take better care of their citizens when they retire from working and in the US we now have more people who are in their 60's and 70's who still have to work because their retirement funds do not cover their expenses adequately. The country was duped into the 401k which can't be adequately funded because wages for hourly paid workers are paid such low wages. Prior to the 401k, most of our parents and/or grandparents retired with a company pension plan that paid them until they died and that's all gone now thanks to a certain political party. America also has the world's worst drug addiction problem and nothing is being done about that either. --- SpankageBros <cite>BUMPED2002 posted [p:946908433] in What will ... [t:79095084]...</cite> <quote>Let's start here, most other industrialized countries who aren't as wealthy as the US have universal healthcare, free or reduced college, paid maternity leave etc and the US does not. Now the question is why is that? Other countries also take better care of their elderly than does the US. Other countries also take better care of their citizens when they retire from working and in the US we now have more people who are in their 60's and 70's who still have to work because their retirement funds do not cover their expenses adequately. The country was duped into the 401k which can't be adequately funded because wages for hourly paid workers are paid such low wages. Prior to the 401k, most of our parents and/or grandparents retired with a company pension plan that paid them until they died and that's all gone now thanks to a certain political party. America also has the world's worst drug addiction problem and nothing is being done about that either. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TaKun782 11/08/20 8:06:44 PM #7:	Mead posted... This is what happens when we defund education I am just as speechless as you are and was about to point this out... more to the point, I also hate the fact that theres this stigma revolving around socializing our healthcare like we've been brainwashed to think its bad when its actually not. Who the fuck wouldnt want to be in any medical debt so they can get the proper treatment they deserve without selling their kidney on the black market? Our government is completely fine spending millions and billions on the military, but when it comes to our own people? Fuck 'em is the American way as well as the American attitude im seeing. <cite>TaKun782 posted [p:946924689] in What will ... [t:79095084]...</cite> <quote>Mead posted... </cite> <quote> This is what happens when we defund education</quote> I am just as speechless as you are and was about to point this out... more to the point, I also hate the fact that theres this stigma revolving around socializing our healthcare like we've been brainwashed to think its bad when its actually not. Who the fuck wouldnt want to be in any medical debt so they can get the proper treatment they deserve without selling their kidney on the black market? Our government is completely fine spending millions and billions on the military, but when it comes to our own people? Fuck 'em is the American way as well as the American attitude im seeing. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Lokarin 11/08/20 8:24:00 PM #8:	Americas high military spending is why it must avoid fascism at all costs. All things being equal Fascism is a decently fair system... but the inevitable problem is a country's military is also their largest corporation so they can outvote anything resulting in a totalitarian system --- "Salt cures Everything!" My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/Nirakolov/videos <cite>Lokarin posted [p:946925338] in What will ... [t:79095084]...</cite> <quote>Americas high military spending is why it must avoid fascism at all costs. All things being equal Fascism is a decently fair system... but the inevitable problem is a country's military is also their largest corporation so they can outvote anything resulting in a totalitarian system </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Muscles 11/09/20 12:48:34 AM #9:	TaKun782 posted... I am just as speechless as you are and was about to point this out... more to the point, I also hate the fact that theres this stigma revolving around socializing our healthcare like we've been brainwashed to think its bad when its actually not. Who the fuck wouldnt want to be in any medical debt so they can get the proper treatment they deserve without selling their kidney on the black market? Our government is completely fine spending millions and billions on the military, but when it comes to our own people? Fuck 'em is the American way as well as the American attitude im seeing. I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to it on the state level, just not the federal level because that's not what the federal government is supposed to be for. Also I think military spending should be cut back like 10 fold. As far as the getting rid of insurance companies go, they led to the unnatural spike in drug and treatment prices since you can charge more to a billion dollar insurance company than an individual, but that also helps insurance companies because insurance becomes a necessity and both sides fuck over the individual. --- Muscles Chicago Bears \| Chicago Blackhawks \| Chicago Bulls \| Chicago Cubs \| NIU Huskies <cite>Muscles posted [p:946934416] in What will ... [t:79095084]...</cite> <quote>TaKun782 posted... </cite> <quote>I am just as speechless as you are and was about to point this out... more to the point, I also hate the fact that theres this stigma revolving around socializing our healthcare like we've been brainwashed to think its bad when its actually not. Who the fuck wouldnt want to be in any medical debt so they can get the proper treatment they deserve without selling their kidney on the black market? Our government is completely fine spending millions and billions on the military, but when it comes to our own people? Fuck 'em is the American way as well as the American attitude im seeing.</quote>I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to it on the state level, just not the federal level because that's not what the federal government is supposed to be for. Also I think military spending should be cut back like 10 fold. As far as the getting rid of insurance companies go, they led to the unnatural spike in drug and treatment prices since you can charge more to a billion dollar insurance company than an individual, but that also helps insurance companies because insurance becomes a necessity and both sides fuck over the individual. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
JigsawTDC 11/09/20 12:56:52 AM #10:	Capitalism values commodification over humanity. That's not necessarily a judgment, just a fact of the system. Obviously capitalism has it's place and can be extremely beneficial in many ways. But that doesn't mean it's the best solution for every thing. And we should always be critical and aware of just who it benefits and at what cost. Unfortunately, we live in a hypercapitalist society. To the point, where more than half the population has bought into fearmongering and values profit over people. They'd sacrifice humanity for the sake of economy. As a result, even the slightest hint at more socialized systems is met with radical opposition and fear. Especially by those who engage with a limited window of information and lack critical thought. Don't believe me? Just wait for our resident "left-leaninng centrists" to weigh in. <cite>JigsawTDC posted [p:946934587] in What will ... [t:79095084]...</cite> <quote>Capitalism values commodification over humanity. That's not necessarily a judgment, just a fact of the system. Obviously capitalism has it's place and can be extremely beneficial in many ways. But that doesn't mean it's the best solution for every thing. And we should always be critical and aware of just who it benefits and at what cost. Unfortunately, we live in a hypercapitalist society. To the point, where more than half the population has bought into fearmongering and values profit over people. They'd sacrifice humanity for the sake of economy. As a result, even the slightest hint at more socialized systems is met with radical opposition and fear. Especially by those who engage with a limited window of information and lack critical thought. Don't believe me? Just wait for our resident "left-leaninng centrists" to weigh in. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Muscles 11/09/20 1:07:01 AM #11:	JigsawTDC posted... Capitalism values commodification over humanity. That's not necessarily a judgment, just a fact of the system. Obviously capitalism has it's place and can be extremely beneficial in many ways. But that doesn't mean it's the best solution for every thing. And we should always be critical and aware of just who it benefits and at what cost. Unfortunately, we live in a hypercapitalist society. To the point, where more than half the population has bought into fearmongering and values profit over people. They'd sacrifice humanity for the sake of economy. As a result, even the slightest hint at more socialized systems is met with radical opposition and fear. Especially by those who engage with a limited window of information and lack critical thought. Don't believe me? Just wait for our resident "left-leaninng centrists" to weigh in. I get your point, I do think the pursuit of profits over humans has really hurt this country, I just think it should be up to the states because of the 10th amendment. The federal government should just be there for national security and preventing the states from making unconstitutional laws, their overreach has really hurt this country too. I think we need a smaller government and cultural change to fix our problems, we should be taught growing up that profits come 2nd to respecting people's rights. The pursuit of profits isn't bad until it starts hurting people through deception, price gouging, etc. --- Muscles Chicago Bears \| Chicago Blackhawks \| Chicago Bulls \| Chicago Cubs \| NIU Huskies <cite>Muscles posted [p:946934811] in What will ... [t:79095084]...</cite> <quote>JigsawTDC posted... </cite> <quote>Capitalism values commodification over humanity. That's not necessarily a judgment, just a fact of the system. Obviously capitalism has it's place and can be extremely beneficial in many ways. But that doesn't mean it's the best solution for every thing. And we should always be critical and aware of just who it benefits and at what cost. Unfortunately, we live in a hypercapitalist society. To the point, where more than half the population has bought into fearmongering and values profit over people. They'd sacrifice humanity for the sake of economy. As a result, even the slightest hint at more socialized systems is met with radical opposition and fear. Especially by those who engage with a limited window of information and lack critical thought. Don't believe me? Just wait for our resident "left-leaninng centrists" to weigh in.</quote>I get your point, I do think the pursuit of profits over humans has really hurt this country, I just think it should be up to the states because of the 10th amendment. The federal government should just be there for national security and preventing the states from making unconstitutional laws, their overreach has really hurt this country too. I think we need a smaller government and cultural change to fix our problems, we should be taught growing up that profits come 2nd to respecting people's rights. The pursuit of profits isn't bad until it starts hurting people through deception, price gouging, etc. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Raddest_Chad 11/09/20 1:22:47 AM #12:	Teddy Roosevelt winning the 1912 election would've given America universal healthcare and corporations getting too powerful a foot up the ass. This is the darkest timeline. --- Formerly The Cyborg Ninja <cite>Raddest_Chad posted [p:946935081] in What will ... [t:79095084]...</cite> <quote>Teddy Roosevelt winning the 1912 election would've given America universal healthcare and corporations getting too powerful a foot up the ass. This is the darkest timeline. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
fishy071 11/09/20 3:04:40 AM #13:	It will take nothing because it will never happen. People are evil and won't let that happen. --- "You don't need a reason to help people." (Zidane Tribal of FFIX) <cite>fishy071 posted [p:946936806] in What will ... [t:79095084]...</cite> <quote>It will take nothing because it will never happen. People are evil and won't let that happen. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
What_The_Chris 11/09/20 3:14:02 AM #14:	TaKun782 posted... I am just as speechless as you are and was about to point this out... more to the point, I also hate the fact that theres this stigma revolving around socializing our healthcare like we've been brainwashed to think its bad when its actually not. Who the fuck wouldnt want to be in any medical debt so they can get the proper treatment they deserve without selling their kidney on the black market? Our government is completely fine spending millions and billions on the military, but when it comes to our own people? Fuck 'em is the American way as well as the American attitude im seeing. because that's communism and communism = bad --- 2020 St. Louis Cardinals did alright <cite>What_The_Chris posted [p:946936914] in What will ... [t:79095084]...</cite> <quote>TaKun782 posted... </cite> <quote>I am just as speechless as you are and was about to point this out... more to the point, I also hate the fact that theres this stigma revolving around socializing our healthcare like we've been brainwashed to think its bad when its actually not. Who the fuck wouldnt want to be in any medical debt so they can get the proper treatment they deserve without selling their kidney on the black market? Our government is completely fine spending millions and billions on the military, but when it comes to our own people? Fuck 'em is the American way as well as the American attitude im seeing.</quote>because that's communism and communism = bad </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TaKun782 11/09/20 5:24:30 AM #15:	What_The_Chris posted... because that's communism and communism = bad Explain. <cite>TaKun782 posted [p:946938572] in What will ... [t:79095084]...</cite> <quote>What_The_Chris posted... </cite> <quote>because that's communism and communism = bad</quote>Explain. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Wanded 11/09/20 5:25:46 AM #16:	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr4TZMPmbuw --- Puss in Boots was a good movie and it deserves more recognition <cite>Wanded posted [p:946938594] in What will ... [t:79095084]...</cite> <quote>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr4TZMPmbuw </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
YoukaiSlayer 11/09/20 5:47:41 AM #17:	The healthcare system is a lot more fucked up than just pricing. It's also important to be aware that increased access also means longer wait, which can be fatal. Theres some problems that, if solved, would make it far easier to implement free healthcare. The root of the problem is that it has been made very difficult to survive as a doctor, mostly due to malpractice insurance. In order to stay afloat, they need to overbook. This creates 2 problems. Firstly, they don't have enough time to do their job right. Secondly though, it means you can't reduce the burden by hiring more doctors, cause there just isn't money in the system to pay more doctors, because all the money is siphoned out to insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies. And a bonus 3rd problem is that it makes being a doctor miserable cause you are constantly rushed and can't do your job right. If malpractice insurance is reduced or downright removed (which can't happen cause of shit court system) then doctors can afford to see like 1/3rd the patients they do now, actually do their job right, and we can afford to pay more doctors so there is no wait. At that point, making it free becomes much more reasonable and you can account for the increase in people going to the doctors. Big pharma just price gouges the shit of anything they possibly can and they need to be downright shutdown. They are guilty of crimes against humanity as far as I'm concerned. Legit hundreds of millions of people have died for the sake of their profits. No one in human history is responsible for more innocent deaths. --- I'm ninja (you can't see me) <cite>YoukaiSlayer posted [p:946938833] in What will ... [t:79095084]...</cite> <quote>The healthcare system is a lot more fucked up than just pricing. It's also important to be aware that increased access also means longer wait, which can be fatal. Theres some problems that, if solved, would make it far easier to implement free healthcare. The root of the problem is that it has been made very difficult to survive as a doctor, mostly due to malpractice insurance. In order to stay afloat, they need to overbook. This creates 2 problems. Firstly, they don't have enough time to do their job right. Secondly though, it means you can't reduce the burden by hiring more doctors, cause there just isn't money in the system to pay more doctors, because all the money is siphoned out to insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies. And a bonus 3rd problem is that it makes being a doctor miserable cause you are constantly rushed and can't do your job right. If malpractice insurance is reduced or downright removed (which can't happen cause of shit court system) then doctors can afford to see like 1/3rd the patients they do now, actually do their job right, and we can afford to pay more doctors so there is no wait. At that point, making it free becomes much more reasonable and you can account for the increase in people going to the doctors. Big pharma just price gouges the shit of anything they possibly can and they need to be downright shutdown. They are guilty of crimes against humanity as far as I'm concerned. Legit hundreds of millions of people have died for the sake of their profits. No one in human history is responsible for more innocent deaths. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Yellow 11/09/20 6:04:09 AM #18:	All other first world countries have it and medical bankruptcies don't exist anywhere but the US. Ben Shapiro "you don't have a right to healthcare" is accidentally left wing. You do in all other first world countries. Ben "don't involve morality with decision making" Shapiro. You don't have people dying from lack of healthcare in other countries. US has a problem with the anti-healthcare cult. --- why am I even here <cite>Yellow posted [p:946939030] in What will ... [t:79095084]...</cite> <quote>All other first world countries have it and medical bankruptcies don't exist anywhere but the US. Ben Shapiro "you don't have a right to healthcare" is accidentally left wing. You do in all other first world countries. Ben "don't involve morality with decision making" Shapiro. You don't have people dying from lack of healthcare in other countries. US has a problem with the anti-healthcare cult. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TaKun782 11/09/20 6:51:09 AM #19:	Yellow posted... All other first world countries have it and medical bankruptcies don't exist anywhere but the US. Ben Shapiro "you don't have a right to healthcare" is accidentally left wing. You do in all other first world countries. Ben "don't involve morality with decision making" Shapiro. You don't have people dying from lack of healthcare in other countries. US has a problem with the anti-healthcare cult. Theirs a lot of things I can agree with Ben on, but this isn't simply one of them. I mean, jesus... we are like millions of dollars in medical debt from people that cant even afford it. And thats good. Id say dont pay it. Fuck this system and let that debt be a prime example of the very reason why in this country people cant afford it in the first place. <cite>TaKun782 posted [p:946939618] in What will ... [t:79095084]...</cite> <quote>Yellow posted... </cite> <quote>All other first world countries have it and medical bankruptcies don't exist anywhere but the US. Ben Shapiro "you don't have a right to healthcare" is accidentally left wing. You do in all other first world countries. Ben "don't involve morality with decision making" Shapiro. You don't have people dying from lack of healthcare in other countries. US has a problem with the anti-healthcare cult.</quote> Theirs a lot of things I can agree with Ben on, but this isn't simply one of them. I mean, jesus... we are like millions of dollars in medical debt from people that cant even afford it. And thats good. Id say dont pay it. Fuck this system and let that debt be a prime example of the very reason why in this country people cant afford it in the first place. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Wanded 11/09/20 6:52:38 AM #20:	Yellow posted... All other first world countries have it and medical bankruptcies don't exist anywhere but the US. Ben Shapiro "you don't have a right to healthcare" is accidentally left wing. You do in all other first world countries. Ben "don't involve morality with decision making" Shapiro. You don't have people dying from lack of healthcare in other countries. US has a problem with the anti-healthcare cult. nothing you said refutes his two main points and you don't have people dying from lack of healthcare is the us either, the liberal "people are literally dying in the streets" talking point is false --- Puss in Boots was a good movie and it deserves more recognition <cite>Wanded posted [p:946939633] in What will ... [t:79095084]...</cite> <quote>Yellow posted... </cite> <quote>All other first world countries have it and medical bankruptcies don't exist anywhere but the US. Ben Shapiro "you don't have a right to healthcare" is accidentally left wing. You do in all other first world countries. Ben "don't involve morality with decision making" Shapiro. You don't have people dying from lack of healthcare in other countries. US has a problem with the anti-healthcare cult.</quote>nothing you said refutes his two main points and you don't have people dying from lack of healthcare is the us either, the liberal "people are literally dying in the streets" talking point is false </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
YoukaiSlayer 11/09/20 7:10:53 AM #21:	Wanded posted... and you don't have people dying from lack of healthcare Uh.... --- I'm ninja (you can't see me) <cite>YoukaiSlayer posted [p:946939869] in What will ... [t:79095084]...</cite> <quote>Wanded posted... </cite> <quote>and you don't have people dying from lack of healthcare</quote>Uh.... </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Wanded 11/09/20 7:42:53 AM #22:	TaKun782 posted... Theirs a lot of things I can agree with Ben on, but this isn't simply one of them. I mean, jesus... we are like millions of dollars in medical debt from people that cant even afford it. And thats good. Id say dont pay it. Fuck this system and let that debt be a prime example of the very reason why in this country people cant afford it in the first place. so make the moves necessary to lower these prices instead? like breaking medical monopolies and having price transparency etc i probably should have put this video instead since this one is more relevant to your points https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdN4uJZUhLE --- Puss in Boots was a good movie and it deserves more recognition <cite>Wanded posted [p:946940325] in What will ... [t:79095084]...</cite> <quote>TaKun782 posted... </cite> <quote>Theirs a lot of things I can agree with Ben on, but this isn't simply one of them. I mean, jesus... we are like millions of dollars in medical debt from people that cant even afford it. And thats good. Id say dont pay it. Fuck this system and let that debt be a prime example of the very reason why in this country people cant afford it in the first place.</quote>so make the moves necessary to lower these prices instead? like breaking medical monopolies and having price transparency etc i probably should have put this video instead since this one is more relevant to your points https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdN4uJZUhLE </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Clench281 11/09/20 7:52:40 AM #23:	Has Wanded ever shared a 'source' that isn't a YouTube video, tweet, or tweet linking to a YouTube video --- Take me for what I am -- who I was meant to be. And if you give a damn, take me baby, or leave me. <cite>Clench281 posted [p:946940492] in What will ... [t:79095084]...</cite> <quote>Has Wanded ever shared a 'source' that isn't a YouTube video, tweet, or tweet linking to a YouTube video </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Wanded 11/09/20 8:18:01 AM #24:	Clench281 posted... Has Wanded ever shared a 'source' that isn't a YouTube video, tweet, or tweet linking to a YouTube video https://www.nationalreview.com/2017/04/health-care-basic-facts-and-hard-truths/ --- Puss in Boots was a good movie and it deserves more recognition <cite>Wanded posted [p:946941019] in What will ... [t:79095084]...</cite> <quote>Clench281 posted... </cite> <quote>Has Wanded ever shared a 'source' that isn't a YouTube video, tweet, or tweet linking to a YouTube video</quote> https://www.nationalreview.com/2017/04/health-care-basic-facts-and-hard-truths/ </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CaptainStrong 11/09/20 9:01:23 AM #25:	Wanded posted... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr4TZMPmbuw Aren't I supposed to have an unalienable right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? <cite>CaptainStrong posted [p:946942015] in What will ... [t:79095084]...</cite> <quote>Wanded posted... </cite> <quote>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr4TZMPmbuw</quote>Aren't I supposed to have an unalienable right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
YoukaiSlayer 11/09/20 9:13:16 AM #26:	Not if someone can make more money off you not getting those things. --- I'm ninja (you can't see me) <cite>YoukaiSlayer posted [p:946942300] in What will ... [t:79095084]...</cite> <quote>Not if someone can make more money off you not getting those things. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dynalo 11/09/20 9:18:22 AM #27:	Wanded posted... https://www.nationalreview.com/2017/04/health-care-basic-facts-and-hard-truths/ I'll go through this by each point in the article. 1) Yes, all health care programs have challenges. But do you know what's worse than a waiting list? Dying because you can't afford treatment. Or getting treatment anyways and then declaring bankruptcy. Waiting lists aren't even a huge concern, as patients are always seen on the basis of criticality. 2) This would be fixed by government run health care. That way, coverage would be access, because everyone would be able to access health care. 3) Why is this article written as though insurance is still in the picture? If you get rid of insurance and have health care come from taxes, that fixes the issue he pointed out about "not enough young people signed up to offset the costs". If everyone is paying into it, those cancer bills can get split across the whole system and no longer be crippling. Keep insurance out of this. 4) Again, this article is written as though Medicare is in addition to existing systems. Keep insurance out, put everyone on the same level, and all these problems don't exist. Most of the issues he listed here are because there are options besides medicare. If there weren't, medicare (or whatever the new national program is called) would have to get significantly better, and there would be pressure from the entire public to make it better, rather than just those who are currently on it. 5) Again, let's create a new and better system rather than trying to point to something old and say "I don't want that". 6) I mean, this is true. No matter what, if you institute national health care the people at the top end will not be happy. Whatever the new challenges (waiting lists or whatever) are will absolutely hurt them moreso than folks at the bottom. But no one will have to worry about dying because they caught a very treatable disease. I think that's worth the pain of some folks being unhappy. --- Assassins do it from behind. <cite>Dynalo posted [p:946942431] in What will ... [t:79095084]...</cite> <quote>Wanded posted... </cite> <quote>https://www.nationalreview.com/2017/04/health-care-basic-facts-and-hard-truths/</quote> I'll go through this by each point in the article. 1) Yes, all health care programs have challenges. But do you know what's worse than a waiting list? Dying because you can't afford treatment. Or getting treatment anyways and then declaring bankruptcy. Waiting lists aren't even a huge concern, as patients are always seen on the basis of criticality. 2) This would be fixed by government run health care. That way, coverage would be access, because everyone would be able to access health care. 3) Why is this article written as though insurance is still in the picture? If you get rid of insurance and have health care come from taxes, that fixes the issue he pointed out about "not enough young people signed up to offset the costs". If everyone is paying into it, those cancer bills can get split across the whole system and no longer be crippling. Keep insurance out of this. 4) Again, this article is written as though Medicare is in addition to existing systems. Keep insurance out, put everyone on the same level, and all these problems don't exist. Most of the issues he listed here are because there are options besides medicare. If there weren't, medicare (or whatever the new national program is called) would have to get significantly better, and there would be pressure from the entire public to make it better, rather than just those who are currently on it. 5) Again, let's create a new and better system rather than trying to point to something old and say "I don't want that". 6) I mean, this is true. No matter what, if you institute national health care the people at the top end will not be happy. Whatever the new challenges (waiting lists or whatever) are will absolutely hurt them moreso than folks at the bottom. But no one will have to worry about dying because they caught a very treatable disease. I think that's worth the pain of some folks being unhappy. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TaKun782 11/09/20 10:45:45 AM #28:	Wanded posted... so make the moves necessary to lower these prices instead? like breaking medical monopolies and having price transparency etc i probably should have put this video instead since this one is more relevant to your points https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdN4uJZUhLE Ah yes.. I was expecting that too. But again, there is always a choice. Best worst thing is that no one has a gun to your head not to pay anything after all is said and done. <cite>TaKun782 posted [p:946945091] in What will ... [t:79095084]...</cite> <quote>Wanded posted... </cite> <quote>so make the moves necessary to lower these prices instead? like breaking medical monopolies and having price transparency etc i probably should have put this video instead since this one is more relevant to your points https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdN4uJZUhLE</quote> Ah yes.. I was expecting that too. But again, there is always a choice. Best worst thing is that no one has a gun to your head not to pay anything after all is said and done. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mead 11/09/20 11:06:56 AM #29:	The easiest way to reduce healthcare costs is to remove the barriers between people and the care they need the cheapest type of healthcare is preventative care, yet so many people wait until theyre in dire need of medical services because they dont have health insurance or dont understand the details of their plan, and its those services that end up being the most expensive. Meanwhile those folks just end up declaring bankruptcy because who the heck can afford $100K the week after having a heart attack, and the bill gets passed on to the tax payers. you simply cant let people fall through the cracks, if someone is sick or hurt they should be able to get the help they need without fear that it will destroy them financially or get them removed from the country and separated from their family. Thats just basic morality and if you dont agree then Im not sure how to even discuss the matter with you --- The Betrayer <cite>Mead posted [p:946945813] in What will ... [t:79095084]...</cite> <quote>The easiest way to reduce healthcare costs is to remove the barriers between people and the care they need the cheapest type of healthcare is preventative care, yet so many people wait until theyre in dire need of medical services because they dont have health insurance or dont understand the details of their plan, and its those services that end up being the most expensive. Meanwhile those folks just end up declaring bankruptcy because who the heck can afford $100K the week after having a heart attack, and the bill gets passed on to the tax payers. you simply cant let people fall through the cracks, if someone is sick or hurt they should be able to get the help they need without fear that it will destroy them financially or get them removed from the country and separated from their family. Thats just basic morality and if you dont agree then Im not sure how to even discuss the matter with you </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Lokarin 11/09/20 11:31:41 AM #30:	Ben Shapiros weird, he puts on a wig and calls himself Abby sometimes --- "Salt cures Everything!" My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/Nirakolov/videos <cite>Lokarin posted [p:946946669] in What will ... [t:79095084]...</cite> <quote>Ben Shapiros weird, he puts on a wig and calls himself Abby sometimes </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SunWuKung420 11/09/20 2:22:22 PM #31:	All healthcare should be non-profit. Getting a college education shouldn't cost 100k+. Manufacturing of goods should happen in our country, not overseas. CEOs, VPs and other executives shouldn't be allowed to make 5x (or usually more) in salary/bonuses compared to the workforce they employ. "In the abundance of water The fool is thirsty" - Bob Marley --- Society is built on a mass hallucination. <cite>SunWuKung420 posted [p:946953567] in What will ... [t:79095084]...</cite> <quote>All healthcare should be non-profit. Getting a college education shouldn't cost 100k+. Manufacturing of goods should happen in our country, not overseas. CEOs, VPs and other executives shouldn't be allowed to make 5x (or usually more) in salary/bonuses compared to the workforce they employ. "In the abundance of water The fool is thirsty" - Bob Marley </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Lokarin 11/09/20 6:22:18 PM #32:	SunWuKung420 posted... Getting a college education shouldn't cost 100k+. I'll soft disagree... Yes, poopy classes shouldn't be that expensive, but some classes get to use some really cool expensive stuff and definitely warrant a high cost --- "Salt cures Everything!" My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/Nirakolov/videos <cite>Lokarin posted [p:946962950] in What will ... [t:79095084]...</cite> <quote>SunWuKung420 posted... </cite> <quote>Getting a college education shouldn't cost 100k+.</quote> I'll soft disagree... Yes, poopy classes shouldn't be that expensive, but some classes get to use some really cool expensive stuff and definitely warrant a high cost </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zeus 11/09/20 6:42:06 PM #33:	TaKun782 posted... Honestly, there shouldn't be a paywall when it comes to health care. Not what a paywall is. TaKun782 posted... Its a luxury not to drop dead here in the U.S and its fucking scary. Living in a home shouldn't be a luxury either yet most people don't get free housing. Having a car shouldn't be a luxury either yet most people don't get free cars. In fact, we actually get taxed on both things. TaKun782 posted... Needed to have an operation done to keep him healthy and going, but his insurance wouldn't allow it and wouldn't pay for it because they didn't deem it "necessary". The problem there is when an insurance company refuses to pay for it, you can still get it. In a socialized system, it'd be the government not letting you have it under any circumstances and, in some cases, blocking you from getting it in another country. TaKun782 posted... I know Burnie was aiming for it really hard when he was trying to run for presidency. Misspelling Bernie is probably the garbage-cherry on this trash heap of a top. BUMPED2002 posted... Let's start here, most other industrialized countries who aren't as wealthy as the US have universal healthcare, free or reduced college, paid maternity leave etc and the US does not. Now the question is why is that? Other countries also take better care of their elderly than does the US. Other countries also take better care of their citizens when they retire from working and in the US we now have more people who are in their 60's and 70's who still have to work because their retirement funds do not cover their expenses adequately. The country was duped into the 401k which can't be adequately funded because wages for hourly paid workers are paid such low wages. Prior to the 401k, most of our parents and/or grandparents retired with a company pension plan that paid them until they died and that's all gone now thanks to a certain political party. That's a lot of gibberish all strung together. However, it's worth noting that most of those examples aren't the same country, there are differing standards of care, and the ability to do it in one place doesn't necessarily mean it's doable in other places (and no, it's not just a "wealth" issue). TaKun782 posted... , I also hate the fact that theres this stigma revolving around socializing our healthcare like we've been brainwashed to think its bad when its actually not. It is bad. Raddest_Chad posted... Teddy Roosevelt winning the 1912 election would've given America universal healthcare and corporations getting too powerful a foot up the ass. This is the darkest timeline. Keep in mind that the strongest opponents of universal healthcare weren't "corporations", they were doctors and medical associations. --- (\/)(\/)\|-\| There are precious few at ease / With moral ambiguities / So we act as though they don't exist. <cite>Zeus posted [p:946963775] in What will ... [t:79095084]...</cite> <quote>TaKun782 posted... </cite> <quote>Honestly, there shouldn't be a paywall when it comes to health care.</quote> Not what a paywall is. TaKun782 posted... </cite> <quote>Its a luxury not to drop dead here in the U.S and its fucking scary.</quote> Living in a home shouldn't be a luxury either yet most people don't get free housing. Having a car shouldn't be a luxury either yet most people don't get free cars. In fact, we actually get taxed on both things. TaKun782 posted... </cite> <quote>Needed to have an operation done to keep him healthy and going, but his insurance wouldn't allow it and wouldn't pay for it because they didn't deem it "necessary".</quote> The problem there is when an insurance company refuses to pay for it, you can still get it. In a socialized system, it'd be the government not letting you have it under any circumstances and, in some cases, blocking you from getting it in another country. TaKun782 posted... </cite> <quote>I know Burnie was aiming for it really hard when he was trying to run for presidency.</quote> Misspelling Bernie is probably the garbage-cherry on this trash heap of a top. BUMPED2002 posted... </cite> <quote>Let's start here, most other industrialized countries who aren't as wealthy as the US have universal healthcare, free or reduced college, paid maternity leave etc and the US does not. Now the question is why is that? Other countries also take better care of their elderly than does the US. Other countries also take better care of their citizens when they retire from working and in the US we now have more people who are in their 60's and 70's who still have to work because their retirement funds do not cover their expenses adequately. The country was duped into the 401k which can't be adequately funded because wages for hourly paid workers are paid such low wages. Prior to the 401k, most of our parents and/or grandparents retired with a company pension plan that paid them until they died and that's all gone now thanks to a certain political party.</quote> That's a lot of gibberish all strung together. However, it's worth noting that most of those examples aren't the same country, there are differing standards of care, and the ability to do it in one place doesn't necessarily mean it's doable in other places (and no, it's not just a "wealth" issue). TaKun782 posted... </cite> <quote>, I also hate the fact that theres this stigma revolving around socializing our healthcare like we've been brainwashed to think its bad when its actually not.</quote> It is bad. Raddest_Chad posted... </cite> <quote>Teddy Roosevelt winning the 1912 election would've given America universal healthcare and corporations getting too powerful a foot up the ass. This is the darkest timeline.</quote> Keep in mind that the strongest opponents of universal healthcare weren't "corporations", they were doctors and medical associations. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zeus 11/09/20 6:42:18 PM #34:	SunWuKung420 posted... Getting a college education shouldn't cost 100k+. You can blame government-backed college loans for that which gave schools little incentive to control costs. --- (\/)(\/)\|-\| There are precious few at ease / With moral ambiguities / So we act as though they don't exist. <cite>Zeus posted [p:946963782] in What will ... [t:79095084]...</cite> <quote> SunWuKung420 posted... </cite> <quote>Getting a college education shouldn't cost 100k+.</quote> You can blame government-backed college loans for that which gave schools little incentive to control costs. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Yellow 11/09/20 8:37:15 PM #35:	Wanded posted... nothing you said refutes his two main points They don't have those problems anywhere else in the world. It's propaganda. --- why am I even here <cite>Yellow posted [p:946968280] in What will ... [t:79095084]...</cite> <quote>Wanded posted... </cite> <quote>nothing you said refutes his two main points</quote>They don't have those problems anywhere else in the world. It's propaganda. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Raddest_Chad 11/09/20 8:50:55 PM #36:	Zeus posted... Keep in mind that the strongest opponents of universal healthcare weren't "corporations", they were doctors and medical associations. I didn't tie those two things together. They're just two issues that ruined everything and would've not existed has 1912 gone properly. And anyone opposing healthcare as a right is a moron. No exceptions. A nation is built on strength via unity, not its number of assholes that successfully found the right set of loopholes to bleed the state and its people dry then have the audacity to cry "pull up your bootstraps" despite the fact they owe as much to the state as they do their own ingenuity. The west's infrastructure and freedoms have value that needs to be paid back. Otherwise, Somalia could have as many billionaires. --- Formerly The Cyborg Ninja <cite>Raddest_Chad posted [p:946968830] in What will ... [t:79095084]...</cite> <quote>Zeus posted... </cite> <quote>Keep in mind that the strongest opponents of universal healthcare weren't "corporations", they were doctors and medical associations.</quote>I didn't tie those two things together. They're just two issues that ruined everything and would've not existed has 1912 gone properly. And anyone opposing healthcare as a right is a moron. No exceptions. A nation is built on strength via unity, not its number of assholes that successfully found the right set of loopholes to bleed the state and its people dry then have the audacity to cry "pull up your bootstraps" despite the fact they owe as much to the state as they do their own ingenuity. The west's infrastructure and freedoms have value that needs to be paid back. Otherwise, Somalia could have as many billionaires. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Lokarin 11/09/20 8:52:55 PM #37:	if healthcare companies were publicly traded then the sick make you richer... it's a self-solving problem! --- "Salt cures Everything!" My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/Nirakolov/videos <cite>Lokarin posted [p:946968909] in What will ... [t:79095084]...</cite> <quote>if healthcare companies were publicly traded then the sick make you richer... it's a self-solving problem! </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zareth 11/09/20 9:03:56 PM #38:	Zeus : "Is America's health system bad? No, it's literally everywhere else that is wrong." --- It's okay, I have no idea who I am either. https://imgur.com/WOo6wcq <cite>Zareth posted [p:946969357] in What will ... [t:79095084]...</cite> <quote>Zeus : "Is America's health system bad? No, it's literally everywhere else that is wrong." </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SunWuKung420 11/09/20 9:08:51 PM #39:	Lokarin posted... I'll soft disagree... Yes, poopy classes shouldn't be that expensive, but some classes get to use some really cool expensive stuff and definitely warrant a high cost If the purpose of education was to educate, it wouldn't be a for-profit industry. --- Society is built on a mass hallucination. <cite>SunWuKung420 posted [p:946969584] in What will ... [t:79095084]...</cite> <quote>Lokarin posted... </cite> <quote>I'll soft disagree... Yes, poopy classes shouldn't be that expensive, but some classes get to use some really cool expensive stuff and definitely warrant a high cost</quote>If the purpose of education was to educate, it wouldn't be a for-profit industry. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Raddest_Chad 11/09/20 9:17:10 PM #40:	Zareth posted... Zeus : "Is America's health system bad? No, it's literally everywhere else that is wrong." --- Formerly The Cyborg Ninja <cite>Raddest_Chad posted [p:946969904] in What will ... [t:79095084]...</cite> <quote>Zareth posted... </cite> <quote>Zeus : "Is America's health system bad? No, it's literally everywhere else that is wrong."</quote> </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Lokarin 11/09/20 9:18:27 PM #41:	Hey, I have a joke solution... You have a massive military budget... but you don't wanna give it up. So why not INVADE other countries to take their Xray machines and medical supplies? --- "Salt cures Everything!" My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/Nirakolov/videos <cite>Lokarin posted [p:946969942] in What will ... [t:79095084]...</cite> <quote>Hey, I have a joke solution... You have a massive military budget... but you don't wanna give it up. So why not INVADE other countries to take their Xray machines and medical supplies? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
OniRonin 11/09/20 9:21:11 PM #42:	re-education camps for dumb-ass conservatives --- god is dumb. she/her #NotAllGamers #YesAllLandlods <cite>OniRonin posted [p:946970050] in What will ... [t:79095084]...</cite> <quote>re-education camps for dumb-ass conservatives </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SwordBlaze 11/09/20 10:22:42 PM #43:	TaKun782 posted... Explain. This is like asking someone to explain why fascism is bad. --- "Play is the highest form of research." - Albert Einstein <cite>SwordBlaze posted [p:946972348] in What will ... [t:79095084]...</cite> <quote>TaKun782 posted... </cite> <quote>Explain.</quote> This is like asking someone to explain why fascism is bad. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Lokarin 11/09/20 10:30:13 PM #44:	SwordBlaze posted... This is like asking someone to explain why fascism is bad. People who don't understand fascism could use a proper explanation. For example, fascism is more in line with 'corporate oligarchy' than a defacto dictatorship... the problem is that the military is typically a nation's largest corporate entity making them the defacto leadership. Under completely neutral conditions Fascism is the ultimate form of democracy, since your purchasing choices affect the balance of power between the corporations in charge and the only way they can sway voters is either through superior products or superior employment --- "Salt cures Everything!" My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/Nirakolov/videos <cite>Lokarin posted [p:946972600] in What will ... [t:79095084]...</cite> <quote>SwordBlaze posted... </cite> <quote>This is like asking someone to explain why fascism is bad.</quote> People who don't understand fascism could use a proper explanation. For example, fascism is more in line with 'corporate oligarchy' than a defacto dictatorship... the problem is that the military is typically a nation's largest corporate entity making them the defacto leadership. Under completely neutral conditions Fascism is the ultimate form of democracy, since your purchasing choices affect the balance of power between the corporations in charge and the only way they can sway voters is either through superior products or superior employment </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Wanded 11/10/20 8:04:05 AM #45:	CaptainStrong posted... Aren't I supposed to have an unalienable right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? yes. the idea behind our rights is that they are the things you would have in the absence of government had you were born in the wild and that do not require someone else, freedom of speech, the right to carry arms etc Healthcare isn't a right because it requires a third party, a doctor to treat you and people to pay for said doctor to treat you. Dynalo posted... I'll go through this by each point in the article. 1) Yes, all health care programs have challenges. But do you know what's worse than a waiting list? Dying because you can't afford treatment. Or getting treatment anyways and then declaring bankruptcy. Waiting lists aren't even a huge concern, as patients are always seen on the basis of criticality. 2) This would be fixed by government run health care. That way, coverage would be access, because everyone would be able to access health care. 3) Why is this article written as though insurance is still in the picture? If you get rid of insurance and have health care come from taxes, that fixes the issue he pointed out about "not enough young people signed up to offset the costs". If everyone is paying into it, those cancer bills can get split across the whole system and no longer be crippling. Keep insurance out of this. 4) Again, this article is written as though Medicare is in addition to existing systems. Keep insurance out, put everyone on the same level, and all these problems don't exist. Most of the issues he listed here are because there are options besides medicare. If there weren't, medicare (or whatever the new national program is called) would have to get significantly better, and there would be pressure from the entire public to make it better, rather than just those who are currently on it. 5) Again, let's create a new and better system rather than trying to point to something old and say "I don't want that". 6) I mean, this is true. No matter what, if you institute national health care the people at the top end will not be happy. Whatever the new challenges (waiting lists or whatever) are will absolutely hurt them moreso than folks at the bottom. But no one will have to worry about dying because they caught a very treatable disease. I think that's worth the pain of some folks being unhappy. i didn't actually read whatever is in there i just sent the first article i stumbled upon to make clench happy but to answer what you say people aren't dying, i keep asking liberals for footage of people in dire need of medical attention where the hospital just goes "whelp no money, no treatment, bye!" and no one has yet to supply, that is because the system takes care of everyone. the problem is the price, you said so yourself, the goal is to lower it, but you ignore that goal and instead focus on nationalized healthcare, why not try lowering the price first via a free market, tax discounts and other methods that don't destroy freedom and use force? --- Puss in Boots was a good movie and it deserves more recognition <cite>Wanded posted [p:946983892] in What will ... [t:79095084]...</cite> <quote>CaptainStrong posted... </cite> <quote>Aren't I supposed to have an unalienable right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?</quote>yes. the idea behind our rights is that they are the things you would have in the absence of government had you were born in the wild and that do not require someone else, freedom of speech, the right to carry arms etc Healthcare isn't a right because it requires a third party, a doctor to treat you and people to pay for said doctor to treat you. Dynalo posted... </cite> <quote>I'll go through this by each point in the article. 1) Yes, all health care programs have challenges. But do you know what's worse than a waiting list? Dying because you can't afford treatment. Or getting treatment anyways and then declaring bankruptcy. Waiting lists aren't even a huge concern, as patients are always seen on the basis of criticality. 2) This would be fixed by government run health care. That way, coverage would be access, because everyone would be able to access health care. 3) Why is this article written as though insurance is still in the picture? If you get rid of insurance and have health care come from taxes, that fixes the issue he pointed out about "not enough young people signed up to offset the costs". If everyone is paying into it, those cancer bills can get split across the whole system and no longer be crippling. Keep insurance out of this. 4) Again, this article is written as though Medicare is in addition to existing systems. Keep insurance out, put everyone on the same level, and all these problems don't exist. Most of the issues he listed here are because there are options besides medicare. If there weren't, medicare (or whatever the new national program is called) would have to get significantly better, and there would be pressure from the entire public to make it better, rather than just those who are currently on it. 5) Again, let's create a new and better system rather than trying to point to something old and say "I don't want that". 6) I mean, this is true. No matter what, if you institute national health care the people at the top end will not be happy. Whatever the new challenges (waiting lists or whatever) are will absolutely hurt them moreso than folks at the bottom. But no one will have to worry about dying because they caught a very treatable disease. I think that's worth the pain of some folks being unhappy.</quote>i didn't actually read whatever is in there i just sent the first article i stumbled upon to make clench happy but to answer what you say people aren't dying, i keep asking liberals for footage of people in dire need of medical attention where the hospital just goes "whelp no money, no treatment, bye!" and no one has yet to supply, that is because the system takes care of everyone. the problem is the price, you said so yourself, the goal is to lower it, but you ignore that goal and instead focus on nationalized healthcare, why not try lowering the price first via a free market, tax discounts and other methods that don't destroy freedom and use force? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Wanded 11/10/20 8:13:03 AM #46:	OniRonin posted... re-education camps for dumb-ass conservatives aoc already working on a gulag list --- Puss in Boots was a good movie and it deserves more recognition <cite>Wanded posted [p:946984073] in What will ... [t:79095084]...</cite> <quote>OniRonin posted... </cite> <quote>re-education camps for dumb-ass conservatives</quote>aoc already working on a gulag list </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CaptainStrong 11/10/20 8:23:31 AM #47:	Wanded posted... yes. the idea behind our rights is that they are the things you would have in the absence of government had you were born in the wild and that do not require someone else, freedom of speech, the right to carry arms etc Healthcare isn't a right because it requires a third party, a doctor to treat you and people to pay for said doctor to treat you. i didn't actually read whatever is in there i just sent the first article i stumbled upon to make clench happy but to answer what you say people aren't dying, i keep asking liberals for footage of people in dire need of medical attention where the hospital just goes "whelp no money, no treatment, bye!" and no one has yet to supply, that is because the system takes care of everyone. the problem is the price, you said so yourself, the goal is to lower it, but you ignore that goal and instead focus on nationalized healthcare, why not try lowering the price first via a free market, tax discounts and other methods that don't destroy freedom and use force? If I get the freedom to go to any doctor I want because no one's out of network, I lose freedom! I don't want to lose the freedom to choose which company is gonna leech off of me and then stab me in the back and abandon me when I need them most! I want the freedom to go bankrupt if I get cancer! You can take my private health insurance from my cold dead hands! <cite>CaptainStrong posted [p:946984299] in What will ... [t:79095084]...</cite> <quote>Wanded posted... </cite> <quote>yes. the idea behind our rights is that they are the things you would have in the absence of government had you were born in the wild and that do not require someone else, freedom of speech, the right to carry arms etc Healthcare isn't a right because it requires a third party, a doctor to treat you and people to pay for said doctor to treat you. i didn't actually read whatever is in there i just sent the first article i stumbled upon to make clench happy but to answer what you say people aren't dying, i keep asking liberals for footage of people in dire need of medical attention where the hospital just goes "whelp no money, no treatment, bye!" and no one has yet to supply, that is because the system takes care of everyone. the problem is the price, you said so yourself, the goal is to lower it, but you ignore that goal and instead focus on nationalized healthcare, why not try lowering the price first via a free market, tax discounts and other methods that don't destroy freedom and use force?</quote>If I get the freedom to go to any doctor I want because no one's out of network, I lose freedom! I don't want to lose the freedom to choose which company is gonna leech off of me and then stab me in the back and abandon me when I need them most! I want the freedom to go bankrupt if I get cancer! You can take my private health insurance from my cold dead hands! </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dynalo 11/10/20 8:23:52 AM #48:	Wanded posted... i didn't actually read whatever is in there i just sent the first article i stumbled upon to make clench happy but to answer what you say You expect us to watch god damn youtube clips when you won't even read articles you posted to defend your arguments? Really? Wanded posted... people aren't dying, i keep asking liberals for footage of people in dire need of medical attention where the hospital just goes "whelp no money, no treatment, bye!" and no one has yet to supply, that is because the system takes care of everyone. I'll go ahead and just requote what I said, since like your article, you also clearly didn't read what I posted. Dynalo posted... Dying because you can't afford treatment. Or getting treatment anyways and then declaring bankruptcy. Note the second sentence there where they still get treatment, but it throws them into financial ruin. And sometimes, like with cancers, they wait too long because "I don't feel that bad and can't afford to go to the doctors". By the time they do go it's too late. This IS well documented. Doctors aren't out there denying treatment. People are dying because they can't afford to even go and see them in the first place. Wanded posted... why not try lowering the price first via a free market, Because people still couldn't afford it. If you live paycheck to paycheck, any price above $0 is too much to go and see a doctor for an annual check up. Wanded posted... tax discounts Only works if you have the money up front and can wait for the tax discount. Therefore doesn't work for those people that are paycheck to paycheck. We agree price is the issue. We disagree on there being a way to fix it without government being involved and insurance going away entirely. Far more people struggle day to day with paying their bills than I believe you realize. I just want these people to be able to go to the doctor and not have to worry about how they'll pay for it. --- Assassins do it from behind. <cite>Dynalo posted [p:946984314] in What will ... [t:79095084]...</cite> <quote>Wanded posted... </cite> <quote>i didn't actually read whatever is in there i just sent the first article i stumbled upon to make clench happy but to answer what you say</quote> You expect us to watch god damn youtube clips when you won't even read articles you posted to defend your arguments? Really? Wanded posted... </cite> <quote>people aren't dying, i keep asking liberals for footage of people in dire need of medical attention where the hospital just goes "whelp no money, no treatment, bye!" and no one has yet to supply, that is because the system takes care of everyone.</quote> I'll go ahead and just requote what I said, since like your article, you also clearly didn't read what I posted. Dynalo posted... </cite> <quote>Dying because you can't afford treatment. Or getting treatment anyways and then declaring bankruptcy.</quote> Note the second sentence there where they still get treatment, but it throws them into financial ruin. And sometimes, like with cancers, they wait too long because "I don't feel that bad and can't afford to go to the doctors". By the time they do go it's too late. This IS well documented. Doctors aren't out there denying treatment. People are dying because they can't afford to even go and see them in the first place. Wanded posted... </cite> <quote>why not try lowering the price first via a free market,</quote> Because people still couldn't afford it. If you live paycheck to paycheck, any price above $0 is too much to go and see a doctor for an annual check up. Wanded posted... </cite> <quote>tax discounts</quote> Only works if you have the money up front and can wait for the tax discount. Therefore doesn't work for those people that are paycheck to paycheck. We agree price is the issue. We disagree on there being a way to fix it without government being involved and insurance going away entirely. Far more people struggle day to day with paying their bills than I believe you realize. I just want these people to be able to go to the doctor and not have to worry about how they'll pay for it. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Wanded 11/10/20 8:57:22 AM #49:	CaptainStrong posted... If I get the freedom to go to any doctor I want because no one's out of network, I lose freedom! I don't want to lose the freedom to choose which company is gonna leech off of me and then stab me in the back and abandon me when I need them most! I want the freedom to go bankrupt if I get cancer! You can take my private health insurance from my cold dead hands! you do you buddy Dynalo posted... You expect us to watch god damn youtube clips when you won't even read articles you posted to defend your arguments? Really? I'll go ahead and just requote what I said, since like your article, you also clearly didn't read what I posted. Note the second sentence there where they still get treatment, but it throws them into financial ruin. And sometimes, like with cancers, they wait too long because "I don't feel that bad and can't afford to go to the doctors". By the time they do go it's too late. This IS well documented. Doctors aren't out there denying treatment. People are dying because they can't afford to even go and see them in the first place. Because people still couldn't afford it. If you live paycheck to paycheck, any price above $0 is too much to go and see a doctor for an annual check up. Only works if you have the money up front and can wait for the tax discount. Therefore doesn't work for those people that are paycheck to paycheck. We agree price is the issue. We disagree on there being a way to fix it without government being involved and insurance going away entirely. Far more people struggle day to day with paying their bills than I believe you realize. I just want these people to be able to go to the doctor and not have to worry about how they'll pay for it. youtube clips are better than articles i really don't get why everybody here keeps whining about them asking for scrolls of text instead which take longer to go through i didn't post it to defend my argument, someone would have needed to actually attack it for me to defend it, i posted it to make clench happy. it's great you wanna see people being taken care of but i don't think putting a gun to peoples heads, taking their money by force and giving it to other people is moral. it is authoritative. charities exist and people can donate if they'd like to, because you personally care about this issue, you can donate to it. imo the focus should be lowering the price and doing things that don't use force or violate freedom. --- Puss in Boots was a good movie and it deserves more recognition <cite>Wanded posted [p:946985114] in What will ... [t:79095084]...</cite> <quote>CaptainStrong posted... </cite> <quote>If I get the freedom to go to any doctor I want because no one's out of network, I lose freedom! I don't want to lose the freedom to choose which company is gonna leech off of me and then stab me in the back and abandon me when I need them most! I want the freedom to go bankrupt if I get cancer! You can take my private health insurance from my cold dead hands!</quote>you do you buddy Dynalo posted... </cite> <quote>You expect us to watch god damn youtube clips when you won't even read articles you posted to defend your arguments? Really? I'll go ahead and just requote what I said, since like your article, you also clearly didn't read what I posted. Note the second sentence there where they still get treatment, but it throws them into financial ruin. And sometimes, like with cancers, they wait too long because "I don't feel that bad and can't afford to go to the doctors". By the time they do go it's too late. This IS well documented. Doctors aren't out there denying treatment. People are dying because they can't afford to even go and see them in the first place. Because people still couldn't afford it. If you live paycheck to paycheck, any price above $0 is too much to go and see a doctor for an annual check up. Only works if you have the money up front and can wait for the tax discount. Therefore doesn't work for those people that are paycheck to paycheck. We agree price is the issue. We disagree on there being a way to fix it without government being involved and insurance going away entirely. Far more people struggle day to day with paying their bills than I believe you realize. I just want these people to be able to go to the doctor and not have to worry about how they'll pay for it.</quote>youtube clips are better than articles i really don't get why everybody here keeps whining about them asking for scrolls of text instead which take longer to go through i didn't post it to defend my argument, someone would have needed to actually attack it for me to defend it, i posted it to make clench happy. it's great you wanna see people being taken care of but i don't think putting a gun to peoples heads, taking their money by force and giving it to other people is moral. it is authoritative. charities exist and people can donate if they'd like to, because you personally care about this issue, you can donate to it. imo the focus should be lowering the price and doing things that don't use force or violate freedom. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
OniRonin 11/10/20 9:10:24 AM #50:	Wanded posted... youtube clips are better than articles i really don't get why everybody here keeps whining about them asking for scrolls of text instead which take longer to go through i didn't post it to defend my argument, someone would have needed to actually attack it for me to defend it, i posted it to make clench happy. i agree. i love watching peer-reviewed youtube videos from prestigious journals --- god is dumb. she/her #NotAllGamers #YesAllLandlods <cite>OniRonin posted [p:946985432] in What will ... [t:79095084]...</cite> <quote>Wanded posted... </cite> <quote>youtube clips are better than articles i really don't get why everybody here keeps whining about them asking for scrolls of text instead which take longer to go through i didn't post it to defend my argument, someone would have needed to actually attack it for me to defend it, i posted it to make clench happy.</quote> i agree. i love watching peer-reviewed youtube videos from prestigious journals </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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