Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 336: Through the Wire

(+) Yeah! (+)

i mean we've already had California, Michigan, and Pennsylvania have their lockdowns rightfully declared unconstitutional and overreaches by the executive.

there's a sizable number of people on that side of things. and a lot of this still shouldn't be viewed as an affirmation of trump as much as a rejection of establishment and biden/harris. you can probably throw in some culture war stuff in there too, there's definite rejections of the dems on that one too. party is just that out of step with the populace.

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Out or curiosity what is the reason why they wouldn't want to be a state?

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I feel like even if Biden pulls through, absolutely no one is going to be happy with these results. Dems lose seats in the house, won't take the senate, and barely take the presidency is like the going to prom with your cousin outcome.

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Wanglicious posted...

i mean i'm sure recounts and all will be had but what everything really matters here is that both sides are going to have valid claims in calling the election illegitimate and as a result dig their heels into the ground more. nothing here is going to end well. dems win, republicans say fraud. republicans win, dems say suppression. shit's beyond broken.

How is the fraud claim valid
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Its over

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Wanglicious posted...

i mean we've already had California, Michigan, and Pennsylvania have their lockdowns rightfully declared unconstitutional and overreaches by the executive.

there's a sizable number of people on that side of things. and a lot of this still shouldn't be viewed as an affirmation of trump as much as a rejection of establishment and biden/harris. you can probably throw in some culture war stuff in there too, there's definite rejections of the dems on that one too. party is just that out of step with the populace.

"The establishment" is such a bullshit term. You don't see people overwhelmingly voting out the Republican Senate that's held a majority for the past eight years.

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They can say it's fraud, doesn't mean it is.

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Btw, here's the thing:

it's all marketing.

If we had no politicians and just agendas the left's policies would win overwhelmingly.

This. The Democratic Party is such a hated "brand" that I'm starting to think progressives would get better results by trying to run as Republicans. They'd probably have to completely give up on social issues to have any chance in GOP primaries, but they can't win those fights right now anyway.
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wang, the best thing you ever did was that zeratul clown nose writeup for mercs

you've been wrong ever since

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https://twitter.com/GlennKesslerWP/status/1323993489055588354

Fuckkkkk forgot about this

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Wanglicious posted...

party is just that out of step with the populace.

That is an odd thing to say about a party that just got more votes for President than anyone ever has

Both parties are very much in step with their populace
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Maniac64 posted...

Out or curiosity what is the reason why they wouldn't want to be a state?

Less autonomy and more taxes I believe

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Wanglicious posted...

party is just that out of step with the populace.

You mean the party which will have won the popular vote in 7 or the last 8 elections? The party whose policies poll favorably nationally?

That's the party you believe is not in step with the populace?

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Ugh. Looking like it's over.

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Jakyl25 posted...

How is the fraud claim valid

valid in the sense that some things do look sketchy.
whether it's true or not, not relevant, it's enough to make the claim and there's a sound basis for it.


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LordoftheMorons posted...

Less autonomy and more taxes I believe

Huh. Guess I assumed we still taxed our territories the same. And applied all our laws and regulations to them.

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Wanglicious posted...

valid in the sense that some things do look sketchy.
whether it's true or not, not relevant, it's enough to make the claim and there's a sound basis for it.

Nothing is sketchy. We knew that mail in votes were being counted later. We knew they were going to be super Dem leaning because Trump politicized VBM. They're now counting the mail-in votes, and the completely expected shifts are occurring.

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Trump isn't stealing this election. It isn't close enough

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Nothing looks sketchy. It was closer than anticipated but still a clear result.

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And yes, the Trump crowd all believes this is illegitimate. So get ready for a contested election.

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Maniac64 posted...

Huh. Guess I assumed we still taxed our territories the same. And applied all our laws and regulations to them.

There's a lot more to governance than federal laws and regulations!

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Reg posted...

Over 200k Americans dead due to sheer malice on the current adminstration's part and I'm the one that needs to chill when I lament how that malice was not pushed back against at the polls?

Yeah, sure, ok.

You see european numbers right now? Trump hasn't helped but it's not like he caused all the deaths

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masterplum posted...

You see european numbers right now? Trump hasn't helped but it's not like he caused all the deaths

Dude, the US has 20% of the world's deaths.

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Jakyl25 posted...

That is an odd thing to say about a party that just got more votes for President than anyone ever has

Both parties are very much in step with their populace

didn't say their populace, both are trying to squeeze everything out of their parties, that's for sure. but that's also not what i said.

and considering we've had more people than ever i'm not sure what that claim is supposed to really mean? like yes, if your country has 300 mil you should have more people voting than when it had 200 mil. it's no 49 state pickup or something like that.

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Wanglicious posted...

there's a sizable number of people on that side of things. and a lot of this still shouldn't be viewed as an affirmation of trump as much as a rejection of establishment and biden/harris. you can probably throw in some culture war stuff in there too, there's definite rejections of the dems on that one too. party is just that out of step with the populace.

Here's a secret you probably don't want to know: Trump is part of the establishment.

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ExThaNemesis posted...

And yes, the Trump crowd all believes this is illegitimate. So get ready for a contested election.

There's nothing to contest that won't get laughed out of even a conservative court

I guess he might be able to get a recount in a state or two, but that's unlikely to matter unless the margin is like hundreds of votes or fewer.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

There's nothing to contest that won't get laughed out of even a conservative court

I guess he might be able to get a recount in a state or two, but that's unlikely to matter unless the margin is like hundreds of votes or fewer.

And to be fair in close states he absolutely has the right to demand a recount, as does Biden
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Dude, the US has 20% of the world's recorded deaths.

Fixed that for ya.

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Corrik7 posted...

Fixed that for ya.

Okay this is true, as China's numbers are bogus.

Regardless, it isn't 'golly he didnt do that good'

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Wanglicious posted...

didn't say their populace, both are trying to squeeze everything out of their parties, that's for sure. but that's also not what i said.

and considering we've had more people than ever i'm not sure what that claim is supposed to really mean? like yes, if your country has 300 mil you should have more people voting than when it had 200 mil. it's no 49 state pickup or something like that.

I just dont see how a party that got more votes is out of step, at least relative to the other party

If you want to say both parties are out of step then sure, Ill entertain that argument
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masterplum posted...

You see european numbers right now? Trump hasn't helped but it's not like he caused all the deaths

While Europe proves you can still fail after it seems like you've succeeded, the US has done wayyyyyyyyyyyyy worse than, South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, Vietnam, Australia, New Zealand, etc. Trump's not to blame for all of the deaths, but he's to blame for plenty of them for his many failures (e.g. politicizing mask usage).

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Jakyl25 posted...

And to be fair in close states he absolutely has the right to demand a recount, as does Biden

Yeah he does, but it's not the recourse he actually wants (throwing out Dem votes)

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LordoftheMorons posted...

While Europe proves you can still fail after it seems like you've succeeded, the US has done wayyyyyyyyyyyyy worse than, South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, Vietnam, Australia, New Zealand, etc. Trump's not to blame for all of the deaths, but he's to blame for plenty of them for his many failures (e.g. politicizing mask usage).

Asian collectivist culture is not even close to comparable. Forcing masks and distancing is easy when shame is one of the worst things in the world

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ExThaNemesis posted...

And yes, the Trump crowd all believes this is illegitimate. So get ready for a contested election.

Yeah the old guys at the gym this morning said there is no way Biden comes back in Michigan Georgia or penn without cheating being involved

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masterplum posted...

Asian collectivist culture is not even close to comparable. Forcing masks and distancing is easy when shame is one of the worst things in the world

Yeah but death of loved ones is one of the worst things in the world in this culture, so shrug
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Maniac64 posted...

You mean the party which will have won the popular vote in 7 or the last 8 elections? The party whose policies poll favorably nationally?

That's the party you believe is not in step with the populace?

it depends on the policy. and the poll, apparently.
on some things what they want works. on some things what they want doesn't. culturally right, economically left is where it seems the vast majority of the nation lies, so policies that keep those axis in mind would be where i'd say the populace lies. both parties keep fucking it up there.

LordoftheMorons posted...

Nothing is sketchy. We knew that mail in votes were being counted later. We knew they were going to be super Dem leaning because Trump politicized VBM. They're now counting the mail-in votes, and the completely expected shifts are occurring.

Corrik7 posted...

Nothing looks sketchy. It was closer than anticipated but still a clear result.

a sharp rise of 100k+ votes that are 95% or straight up 100% biden in the dead of night looks sketchy. multiple days later with bursts for biden looks sketchy. doesn't mean it's wrong or inproper, but it's a funny look, they're ballots that show up "out of nowhere" after the fact that just so happen to go hard in one direction. of course that's gonna turn heads, that's a critical point of the red mirage. even if yes, that's what's supposed to happen, it doesn't change that appearance.

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masterplum posted...

Asian collectivist culture is not even close to comparable. Forcing masks and distancing is easy when shame is one of the worst things in the world

Man, all Trump had to do was be like "I'm asking you to do your patriotic duty. Wear a mask." And every single chud would've stormed out and denounced everyone who wasn't wearing a mask while eating.

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Wait wait wait wait.

You think America is CULTURALLY right and ECONOMICALLY left?

That is the EXACT opposite of reality.

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For what it's worth, I think Trump will get less support for a court battle now that Republicans know they'll still have the Senate either way. They've already accomplished enough in his first term that they don't need the presidency for now so long as they can stop Biden from doing anything.
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Senate isn't entirely decided yet

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Ashethan posted...

Man, all Trump had to do was be like "I'm asking you to do your patriotic duty. Wear a mask." And every single chud would've stormed out and denounced everyone who wasn't wearing a mask while eating.

Wrong

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TotallyNotMI posted...

No matter what happens, the fact that *so many* people looked at the last 4 years and thought "yes, I want more of that" just absolutely disgusts me and makes me lose all hope for the future of our country.

Of course they wanted that pre-Covid economy! Trump is more a figurehead than a leader in any case.

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Okay this is true, as China's numbers are bogus.

China's are bogus because China, same with Iran and (more importantly) Brazil really.
India's are bogus because caste system still fucks with their numbers. they don't record pandemics well.

China, India, US, are top 3 in global population, with the former two each being 3x larger.

Jakyl25 posted...

I just dont see how a party that got more votes is out of step, at least relative to the other party

If you want to say both parties are out of step then sure, Ill entertain that argument

yeah i'm not doing this as a relative to the other party.
if you're running 50/50 on a guy with as shit a year that trump's had, you should totally be viewed as out of step because you're really, really bad and turned a significant number of people to him instead.

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Wanglicious posted...

if you're running 50/50 on a guy with as s*** a year that trump's had, you should totally be viewed as out of step because you're really, really bad and turned a significant number of people to him instead.

Lets put a pin in this until we get the full popular vote count
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fair, though i don't think it'll change my position much as it's basically saying trump should've been steamrolled and the fact that he wasn't is a notable and massive point of failure.

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The late at night Biden votes dont seem shady at all when you understand its 99% people who were taking precautions due to covid, something the Republican party had no plan and for large chunks of time claimed was a hoax

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when 37% of the country is out of sync with reality i don't blame anyone with being "out of step" with the crazies.

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Yeah I think a lot of us on the left just don't get Trump's popularity. I don't know to say whether he legitimized his popularity given everything, or whether my estimate that voters panicked and chose him at the last minute in 2016 because he was not a Clinton or a woman was off.

Best I can understand is he's a figurehead more than he is a leader. Americans who voted for him voted for someone to represent their country, not to lead it.

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Wanglicious posted...

fair, though i don't think it'll change my position much as it's basically saying trump should've been steamrolled and the fact that he wasn't is a notable and massive point of failure.

So you really think Trumps new voters are not enthusiastic for him so much as more dissatisfied with Democrats than they were in 2016?
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