Board 8 > Tell me about Danganronpa

(+) Yeah! (+)

DR3 has redeeming qualities, largely contained within the despair arc

Looks like my predictions at the start of the game were way off. I only got Kazuichi and Chiaki right, but that's fine. There were a ton of things I was surprised by in this game, even if I got the virtual world stuff right off the bat. I, uh, also expected the second game to explain what the deal was with Monokuma coming back to life at the end of the first game? I guess that was just Junko's AI? Because if so, that raises a ton of questions I know won't be answered. It's fine, though, I know this isn't the series to ask those kinds of questions about.

I'm not quite sure how to put this... Danganronpa comes across to me as a mix as Phoenix Wright, Persona, and Metal Gear Solid? You've got the wacky murders of PW, the high school setting and hangouts of Persona, and the hopelessly convoluted story and meta stuff of MGS. The MGS2 comparisons in particular are impossible not to make; both series have first games with stories that seem complicated but are actually fairly straightforward, and that have some video game-y references that don't really affect the plot, but then sequels that ratchet up the game-y stuff to create plots about meta stuff. It even goes beyond that, though, with really specific things, like avatars of previous games' characters, a villainous-but-not-really character whose power is luck, a setting on an off-shore oil rig/island no one can reach, a new protagonist who's similar to the old protagonist, the new protagonist getting a girlfriend who turns out to be a computer program (I'm aware Rosemary is real in MGS, but it's still weird), and a villain replacing his arm with the first game's villain's arm. I don't really know what to make of that?

I didn't expect Junko to return. You can only pull that kind of trick once, so I have no idea who the villain of the next game will be.

As for the plot itself removed from the meta aspects, hm. In the first game, everyone was constantly suspicious of each other, like you would expect. In the second game, no one ever seems to seriously suspect anyone except Nagito. No one ever takes precautions against each other besides "Byakuya" and Fuyuhiko, no one besides Nagito puts much thought into the traitor issue, and everyone just sort of instantly agrees to work together except Fuyuhiko and Nagito. There was a definite downgrade in the amount of "how would people react in this situation" compared to the first game.

Cases:
2-5 > 1-5/1-6 > 2-6 > 2-4 > 1-1 > 1-3 > 1-4 > 2-2 > 2-3 > 2-1 > 1-2

People told me that the second half of D2 was the good half, and indeed that proved to be the case. There was a noticeable increase in the amount of "wacky location or event" murders compared to the first game, which brought things more in line with PW. I guess that's just how detective sequels have to progress? The wackiest murder in the first game was, what, 1-3? D2 has a murder in a funhouse, a murder in a plushie factory, a murder on a concert stage, and so on. The first game kicks off with a dude stabbing a girl to death in a shower in a fit of rage and panic. The second game kicks off with a chef using someone else's murder plan to allow himself to use a portable stove to light the way to an underground hatch that will let him stab a kebab skewer through a floor panel that he hid inside of a piece of meat. The second murder involves a ninja! I go into this more in the characters section, but there's a very clear ramp-up in the zaniness of these games. I don't really like that? The slightly more grounded tone of the first game was more my style.

1-3 really stands out for being the only case where someone actually just murders someone and that's it. There are no hidden noble goals, no accidental homicides, no crimes of passion, or any of that. Celeste is the only person in the entire series who engineers a situation where she can murder a guy with the genuine intention of graduating.

Characters:
Chiaki > Kyoko > Gundham > Byakuya > Aoi > Sakura > Sonia > Akane > "Junko" > Ibuki > Junko > Peko > Toko > Hajime > Kazuichi > Hiyoko > Makoto > Celeste > Taka > Nagito > Fuyuhiko > Nekomaru > Mondo > Yasuhiro > Mahiru > Sayaka > "Byakuya" > Chihiro > Leon > Teruteru > Mikan > Hifumi

Like people said, the characters did indeed get wackier compared to the first game. The easiest comparison is Persona 3 compared to the later games: no one in P3 is very extreme in personality, but by P5 everyone has a very extreme personality. Likewise, D1 has Toko, Taka, and Hifumi, sure, but everyone else is played fairly realistically, at least compared to D2, where everyone is a wacky stereotype except Mahiru. This was also noticeable in just the characters' maturity? D1's characters can all pass for being teenagers even when they're being condescending rich guys or even murderers, which is ironic since they aren't teenagers, while half of D2's cast seems like adults. Nekomaru is the biggest offender, but it goes beyond him. By the way, it took me until 2-6 to realize that the X over Teruteru's portrait at the trials is a knife and fork.

So, I mean, this is weird to say, but I'll say it anyway. I might like the individual characters of D2 more than D1, but I like the cast of D1 more than D2. D1's cast forms a way more cohesive whole than D2's, completely embarrassing the sequel in that regard. The slightly more realistic tone and less extreme personalities really benefit the game's atmosphere, where you're doubting your friends a lot because it's a murder mystery game. Overall, I'm declaring that D1 > D2, but it's not like I dislike D2 at all.

So, uh... what was the deal with the Ultimate Imposter? Why did he pretend to be Byakuya, why did he even know who Byakuya is, and why did he he pretend to be fat? Why did he take charge of everything so quickly and why was he so dedicated to everyone's safety? Why did he seem to know what was going on the entire time?

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So the order is

1. V3
2. Ultra Despair Girls
3. Anime

Is that correct?

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Oh, more thoughts on D2:

I forgot to mention one weird thing. I really, truly thought the game was leading to some kind of revelation about the situation being intentionally similar to the first game, with like similar characters put in the same position. Instead, everyone is just similar to the first game for no reason? It's fine, it's just a little odd.

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Realizing that Chiaki was the killer in the final case was the best twist in the series by far
(Not spoiler, just opinion. Some people won't agree!)

Oh we are still doing spoiler tags even though you beat the game ok (this is spoiler for DR2)

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Anagram posted...

So the order is
1. V3
2. Ultra Despair Girls
3. Anime
Is that correct?

You will probably not bother with UDG and the anime after V3, timeline-wise
If you plan on playing UDG and watching the anime, do it now

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Aww, not a big Nagito fan? He's probably the most popular character from DR2 overall. I like him a lot for the crazy role he plays. Really neat how he tries to kill all of you and save the traitor, since he realizes you're the real villains and she's the hero.

Anagram posted...

So the order is
1. V3
2. Ultra Despair Girls
3. Anime
Is that correct?

Sounds good to me. Or just skip UDG.

Ultimate Impostor gets more development in DR3.
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Anagram posted...

So the order is
1. V3
2. Ultra Despair Girls
3. Anime
Is that correct?

I mean V3 is its own thing, you can do it whenever.

But that's absolutely what I would recommend.

I just think there's a high risk of either D3 or UDG burning you out because neither is even remotely in the ballpark of licking V3's boots.

It's kind of like asking if you should really play Persona 1 and 2 before going to 3 <_<

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I'm not quite sure how to put this... Danganronpa comes across to me as a mix as Phoenix Wright, Persona, and Metal Gear Solid?

Not gonna lie, if we're ignoring the gameplay side of things and just going by aesthetic and some of the out there style, the thing I connect with Danganronpa the most is Homestuck.

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re: 2-5

everything about 2-5 is really freaking good

nagito's brilliantly written

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Just watch a no-comment LP of UDG


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Glad to see 2-5 is ranked correctly

Might be the singular time in the DR series that it really hits the same peak that the AA franchise does

Anagram posted...

So, I mean, this is weird to say, but I'll say it anyway. I might like the individual characters of D2 more than D1, but I like the cast of D1 more than D2. D1's cast forms a way more cohesive whole than D2's, completely embarrassing the sequel in that regard. The slightly more realistic tone and less extreme personalities really benefit the game's atmosphere, where you're doubting your friends a lot because it's a murder mystery game.

This was my biggest takeaway from DR2 as well. Not a common opinion so glad to see more people have it!

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I agree with Anagram on that front as well.

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Yeah I feel the same way about DR2. Individually the characters are more likeable, but they really don't form a cohesive whole, especially at the end.

Thankfully V3 nails both.

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2-5 is the best, yes. I think that's really what cemented Chiaki, Sonia, and Hajime as my favorites. They're just so great.

And Nagito sucks.

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Nagito is the best character in the series IMO, sorry you didn't like him! (Though at least you placed 2-5 in its rightful spot.)

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Nagito is, like, the perfect character for a narrative. People either love or hate him, meaning a scene with him always elicits an emotional response, and his nature encourages plot-driving conflict.

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Can confirm Nagito is the best male character in the series

He is fucking wild
And his laugh
Oh my god his laugh

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Nagito's name is an anagram of "I am Makoto Naegi"

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Leonhart4 posted...

Nagito's name is an anagram of "I am Makoto Naegi"

So where does the D in Komaeda come from?

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Not gonna lie, I sometimes bust out the Nagito laugh when I want to be super obnoxious after winning something with my buds.

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Holding back on Nagito discussion since I find it difficult to do so without being up a other character I like way, way more.

But I also think Nagito is fantastic.

As I did before, my DR2 only character ranking is:

Ibuki Mioda
Fuyuhiko Kuzuriyu
Gundham Tanaka
Chiaki Nanami
Nagito Komaeda
Hajime Hinata
Sonia Nevermind

Mahiru Koizumi
Kazuichi Souda
Mikan Tsumiki
Peko Pekoyama
Nekomaru Nidai
Byakuya Twogami

Akane Owari
Hiyoko Saionji
Teruteru Hanaamura

Baby Gangsta for life. Fuyuhiko has one of my favorite character arcs in fiction.

Unfortunately I stan Ibuki too hard, but if I'm being honest about which CHARACTER I like most, definitely Fuyuhiko.

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hombad46 posted...

So where does the D in Komaeda come from?

It's in Japanese - Makoto Naegi da

Ma Ko To Na E Gi

Na Gi To Ko Ma E Da

Leonhart4 posted...

Nagito's name is an anagram of "I am Makoto Naegi"

Ahhhhhh

Anyway, considering starting D3 sometime this week. Won't be tomorrow, though.

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KamikazePotato posted...

Just watch a no-comment LP of UDG

I tried doing this but it was soooo boring

I did actually kinda like DR3 though!

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DR3 has some great episodes (Despair at least). It just has a real bad retcon/explanation and Future is boring.
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Was it ever explained why they made Danganronpa 3 an anime?

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Nagito was best in 2-1, I wish they kept his creepy duality for at least another case before making him a sideshow comic relief. Especially since he is clearly more interesting than all the other characters combined. 2-5 was a good use of his character, but he wasn't around for it, so it doesn't make up for the past 3 cases.

Anagram posted...

Instead, everyone is just similar to the first game for no reason? It's fine, it's just a little odd.

I totally had the same thought at the beginning too since half the characters look the same, but everyone assured me it was just a coincidence. Hard to shake the idea though.

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Hmmm.

Maybe the writer just wanted to make an anime? Like, he's an anime fan, so making an anime was his dream or something.

Anime's generally cheaper than games, but DR is pretty low budget, so that might not have been the case here.

Also DR2 Despair wouldn't really work as the same kind of game. Maybe he just wanted to finish telling the story and figured the game format wouldn't work.

The anime does do a cool thing where you're supposed to watch episodes in interchanging order since you learn things from one series that affect the other.
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DR3 is the end of what Kodaka considers a trilogy, and the stuff he wanted to put into DR3 wouldn't have worked out for a game (and likely some of it didn't make it into the anime either). You could argue D3 could have been a more pure visual novel, but I don't think the DR fandom would have let that fly.

V3 is disconnected from the other games.

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I figured all of that was why. I just think it's a bit weird to change up a medium if you want to see the conclusion of the trilogy.

It feels like they should have went a different direction with it if it wasn't going to fit in the game medium.

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Clearly the writers realized that Logic Dive and Hangman's Gambit weren't critical to the narrative

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DR3 would have been so much more hilarious if it had a full sequence in which Makoto did a Logic Dive

I am thinking I may play Ultra Despair Girls next. If V3 can be played whenever and is basically its own thing, I wouldn't mind a changeup in the gameplay department for right now.

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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

It feels like they should have went a different direction with it if it wasn't going to fit in the game medium.

I'm of two minds about it.

If DR3 being a VN had lead to everything that was promised in it actually getting delivered on instead of flubbing hard, I'd be all for it.

However, if that was at the cost of us not getting V3, then no dice.

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I am thinking I may play Ultra Despair Girls next. If V3 can be played whenever and is basically its own thing, I wouldn't mind a changeup in the gameplay department for right now.

Just make sure you get it on PC or PS4, and not Vita. I know you've been playing on laptop, but just making sure.

Also if you don't have a mouse on the laptop, you'll want one.

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UDG is not a good game, just warning you that you'll likely be bored out of your mind

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

Just make sure you get it on PC or PS4, and not Vita. I know you've been playing on laptop, but just making sure.

Also if you don't have a mouse on the laptop, you'll want one.

I've literally never touched a PSP or Vita, lol

This is why I played P3 FES and P4 Vanilla instead of the updated versions, although I'm told P3 FES is better than the PSP port anyway.

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Just to be super clear, the anime to watch is Danganronpa 3: The End of Hope's Peak High School, and not Danganronpa: The Animation, right? The second one is just a retelling of the first game in anime form, while the first one is an actual sequel to the first two games, that's correct?

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although I'm told P3 FES is better than the PSP port anyway.

This is a complicated situation, and the actual answer is that they never made a "best" version of P3. Both have different issues.

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Anagram posted...

Just to be super clear, the anime to watch is Danganronpa 3: The End of Hope's Peak High School, and not Danganronpa: The Animation, right? The second one is just a retelling of the first game in anime form, while the first one is an actual sequel to the first two games, that's correct?

Correct. Danganronpa the Animation is a not horrible but still pretty slapdash and rushed adaptation of the first game. It teased a DR2 anime at the end which sadly never happened...especially since then DR3 beiing an anime would make significantly more sense.

Danganronpa 3 is what you want, but still not that easy! It's split into 2 section, the Future Arc and the Despair Arc. You watch Episode 1 of Future, then episode 1 of Despair, then episode 2 of Future and repeat as such. Depending on the streaming platform, the listed order might be fucked up.

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Anagram posted...

Just to be super clear, the anime to watch is Danganronpa 3: The End of Hope's Peak High School, and not Danganronpa: The Animation, right? The second one is just a retelling of the first game in anime form, while the first one is an actual sequel to the first two games, that's correct?

Correct.

If you do watch DR3, then please be aware that you absolutely must watch in this order:

Future 1
Despair 1
Future 2
Despair 2
Future 3...
...etc...
...Hope

This isn't optional

Anagram posted...

Just to be super clear, the anime to watch is Danganronpa 3: The End of Hope's Peak High School, and not Danganronpa: The Animation, right? The second one is just a retelling of the first game in anime form, while the first one is an actual sequel to the first two games, that's correct?

Correct, although you can watch the first one for the sheer absurdity of the breakneck speed at which they blaze through the plot.

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My opinion is that DR3 is skippable, but it's not skippable if you're going to bother playing UDG. At that point, you should absolutely watch DR3 and get the full experience, because like, if you're playing UDG you're in this shit for the long haul.

There's like three things about DR3 I really like so like, sure, watch it

My opinion is that V3 should absolutely should be played last and I'm not sure why people are recommending he do otherwise. If you're going to experience UDG and the anime, do them first.

I haven't watched the anime but UDG has more to offer than people give it credit for. Better narrative than DR2! I mean the gameplay is garbage but hey!

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I didn't realize there was such a complicated watching order to the anime, thank you. I have no idea how long beating UDG will take.

Whoever compared it to Resident Evil 4 only made me want to play it more, because I ****ing love RE4, even though I have no doubt this will be way worse.

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KamikazePotato posted...

My opinion is that V3 should absolutely should be played last and I'm not sure why people are recommending he do otherwise. If you're going to experience UDG and the anime, do them first.

I haven't watched the anime but UDG has more to offer than people give it credit for. Better narrative than DR2! I mean the gameplay is garbage but hey!

I also agree with this

if you're gonna do UDG and DR3, do those first. DRV3 should come last.

That's all I'll say

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So, uh... what was the deal with the Ultimate Imposter? Why did he pretend to be Byakuya, why did he even know who Byakuya is, and why did he he pretend to be fat? Why did he take charge of everything so quickly and why was he so dedicated to everyone's safety? Why did he seem to know what was going on the entire time?

My take is that the imposter was going to impersonate someone. That's what he does. That's who he is. And he just so happens to be fat. But he acted exactly like Byakuya would in those circumstances. It is a little odd that he has some semblance of memories of what took place prior, when nobody else appears to, but we also see at the end that the "other" version of Hajime appears to Nagito as they're arriving on the island, so when where and how memories get altered isn't completely clear.

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