Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 328: Poll Dancing

(+) Yeah! (+)

One would think people would know better.

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MoogleKupo141 posted...

Definition of hypocrisy
1 : a feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not : behavior that contradicts what one claims to believe or feel

what liberals would claim to believe is not that characters must always be played by actors of the same race. Instead they would claim to believe that white people are overrepresented in our movies and people of color are underrepresented.

Casting non-white actors as traditionally white characters is an attempt to remedy that situation, while casting white people as traditionally nonwhite characters exacerbates the problem. The behavior does not contradict the belief at all.

not hypocrisy.

Yeah. The belief is not "every character should always be played by a person of the race that the character either was (for real people) or was intended to be when the character was created (for fictional people)" but rather "white people have historically been given far more opportunities in terms of film and television casting (including giving non-white roles to white actors), therefore to correct this imbalance, we should consider using race blind casting for white characters that don't NEED to be white".

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My position is "there needs to be more minority representation in film, especially major blockbusters and especially with more marginalized people like women of color and transgender men and women."

In order to be a hypocrite, I would have to be happy when a white person grabs a role intended for a POC.

So no, you can keep parroting "you're a hypocrite" but that's literally not true. It's like if I said "there should be more green skittles in every bag" and when there is, you going "ah-HA! You're a hypocrite because there's less red skittles now." There is not a dearth of work for white people in Hollywood. Let me reminded you of the entire Marvel Cinematic Universe:

Iron Man is white with a white love interest.
Hulk is white with multiple white love interests.
Captain America is white with multiple white love interests (I don't know why he didn't end up with Bucky).
Thor is white with a white love interest.
Hawkeye is white with a white wife.
Black Widow is white.
Starlord is white with a POC love interest that they have to paint up in green.
Starlet Witch and Quicksilver are two white people. And SW's love interest is a white dude they painted up who defaults to looking like a white dude.
Ant Man is a white dude with a white love interest. Oh, and his mentor is a white dude with a white love interest.
Dr. Strange is a white guy with white love interest.
Black Panther is a *GASP* black man with a black love interest (I only took them like a dozen movies to finally have a lead that wasn't white).
Captain Marvel is a white woman with a black comedy sidekick.

White people ain't hurting for work.


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Good LORD what is happening in here

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Also Jesus Christ, LMS, shut the hell up.

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holy moly this is where this topic has gone huh

TheRock1525 posted...

Captain Marvel is a white woman with a black comedy sidekick.

hey now, Captain Marvel had a black love interest! who the film desperately pretends is not a love interest, but they can't fool me

Corrik7 posted...

Nanis, you are going to have to learn that liberals are hypocrites regarding this. Nothing more.

If a POC is cast in a white role, it is a victory for them. Example is how they wanted Michael B Jordan to be Superman, Idris Elba to be James Bond, and so on down the road. If white characters change to be a POC it is a victory for "representation".

If Scarlet Johansen plays a character in a Ghost in the Shell, if whatever character that is white plays a POC (even if same skin color) it is whitewashing and bad.

It's hypocrisy.

Imagine this. They wanted a star actress to play a transgender character. The thinking is if a star played in the film the film might get more eye balls and representation. Instead, liberals freaked out a non-transgender person was playing the role. The star backs out amid the backlash. The movie has very slim pickings for who to cast now and shutters. Was that a victory for their cause?

Exactly, this is hypocrisy. Like always. This is always their problem

Now let's ignore my Nazi example from before
I want a help with drawing a line here
Please tell me what is considered offensive

A British actor playing a American, with a British accent
A American playing a British character, without a British accent
A TV show set in Russian, played by American actors
A trans character, played by a non-trans actor
A gay character, played by a straight actor
A male character voiced by a female
A female character voiced by a male
A eldery character played by a young actor
A woman (30-40 years old) played by a young actress (16-20 years old)
A black character (when accent is not important) voiced by a white actor
A white character voiced by a black actor (without a "black accent" and forgive me if that's racist I just don't know how to call this)
A black character (when accent is important) voiced by a white actor
A white character voiced by a black actor (with a accent)


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TheRock1525 posted...

My position is "there needs to be more minority representation in film, especially major blockbusters and especially with more marginalized people like women of color and transgender men and women."

In order to be a hypocrite, I would have to be happy when a white person grabs a role intended for a POC.

So no, you can keep parroting "you're a hypocrite" but that's literally not true. It's like if I said "there should be more green skittles in every bag" and when there is, you going "ah-HA! You're a hypocrite because there's less red skittles now." There is not a dearth of work for white people in Hollywood. Let me reminded you of the entire Marvel Cinematic Universe:

Iron Man is white with a white love interest.
Hulk is white with multiple white love interests.
Captain America is white with multiple white love interests (I don't know why he didn't end up with Bucky).
Thor is white with a white love interest.
Hawkeye is white with a white wife.
Black Widow is white.
Starlord is white with a POC love interest that they have to paint up in green.
Starlet Witch and Quicksilver are two white people. And SW's love interest is a white dude they painted up who defaults to looking like a white dude.
Ant Man is a white dude with a white love interest. Oh, and his mentor is a white dude with a white love interest.
Dr. Strange is a white guy with white love interest.
Black Panther is a *GASP* black man with a black love interest (I only took them like a dozen movies to finally have a lead that wasn't white).
Captain Marvel is a white woman with a black comedy sidekick.

White people ain't hurting for work.

Sounds like you have a big problem with White people, eh?

Apparently is big into a series with a lot of White people and complains there is White people in it. Lol.

The problem is that you don't want new interesting African-American stories and characters. You want to make ones that are White ones into African-American ones. Yet freak out of the reversal ever happens.

That's the hypocrisy.

I mean, honestly, filling roles is very simple. Whoever can best portray the role should get the role. It is as simple as that. Obviously being able to visually represent the role is a big deal so you lossea lot of points in many cases if you cannot. But, it's still possible in some cases.

I see no problem with an African-American playing a White character if the role isn't significantly based upon their skin color. And, the same in reverse. The problem is the people who complain about whitewashing while wanting to wash characters in their preferred choices of races.

People complain if a straight person plays a whatever role, then also cheering on or wishing for whatever sexuality to play a straight role.

This is nonsensical.

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Why is the casting director making these decisions? Is there any reason for it beyond "because we wanted to do something different?"

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So for me, and I am for sure not the most woke end of the left, none of those 'offend' me but it is about the fact that unless there is someone saying "uhh let's please do this right" then minorities will always get shafted when it comes to roles in hollywood because in years past they have been. I personally don't mind anyone who plays anyone that helps elevate a platform (so straight people can play gay or trans all day for all I care!)

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Inviso posted...

Yeah. The belief is not "every character should always be played by a person of the race that the character either was (for real people) or was intended to be when the character was created (for fictional people)" but rather "white people have historically been given far more opportunities in terms of film and television casting (including giving non-white roles to white actors), therefore to correct this imbalance, we should consider using race blind casting for white characters that don't NEED to be white".

This is fair as long as they state this and don't hide behind multiple excuses
But that would raise a question
If a white person voice a black character..for like, years, but then they got fired because "he isn't black"
Would that be fair for that white person?

Not everyone can win, with affirmative action "the strong" get hurt as well
If you think that this is fine - well, opinions, but I personally disagree

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Nanis23 posted...

This is fair as long as they state this and don't hide behind multiple excuses
But that would raise a question
If a white person voice a black character..for like, years, but then they got fired because "he isn't black"
Would that be fair for that white person?

Not everyone can win, with affirmative action "the strong" get hurt as well
If you think that this is fine - well, opinions, but I personally disagree

No one should lose their job over this if they are doing a good job.

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GildedFool posted...

Why is the casting director making these decisions? Is there any reason for it beyond "because we wanted to do something different?"

In my opinion Gal Gadot was cast because it's fucking Gal Gadot
"Hey looks it's Wonder Woman in our movie!"

This all there is to it
It's all about the money. Always has been.
It's people that are looking deep into this stuff and wanting to feel offended.

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Corrik7 posted...

Sounds like you have a big problem with White people, eh?

Apparently is big into a series with a lot of White people and complains there is White people in it. Lol.

I have a big problem with white victimhood. That when Idris Elba is casted as a traditionally white character, I don't want to hear from white people how unfair it is. Y'all kept people who looked like him locked up in chains for centuries, you can let him play James Bond and not bitch about it.

Corrik7 posted...

I mean, honestly, filling roles is very simple. Whoever can best portray the role should get the role. It is as simple as that.

Actually it isn't. Often times studios and producers are forced to make choices based on actor and actress availability and desire to work on the project. The Wachowski Siblings wanted Will Smith for the role. He, to them, was the best person to portray that role. They didn't get him. Studios have to factor in budgets and actors and actresses' desired salaries. They have to factor in so much more than "we will get the best person for the role."

Corrik7 posted...

People complain if a straight person plays a whatever role, then also cheering on or wishing for whatever sexuality to play a straight role.

Yes, because there are far more straight actors and actresses finding work in Hollywood than gay ones. I really can't believe how dense you are.

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I wish corrik cared a quarter as much about the hypocrisy of Republicans when it came to actual governing, than he does about the preferences of liberals with respect to being respectful of stigmatized groups in the arts.

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And the larger point wasn't "ugh, I hate all these white people in movies." It was pointing out how there has been several roles for white people available in major blockbusters that likely made them a shit-ton of money. So when we look at maybe taking a few of those roles and turning them into roles for POC, listening to RWNJs throw a temper tantrum even when it's for secondary roles (like Heimdall or Valkyrie) is stupid. And it's even dumber when there's less representation of minorities in film and then those roles (like ScarJo in Ghost in the Shell) are handed to white people, too. like Scarlett Johansson was literally the only person on Earth that could portray Motoko and there was not a single Asian actress that could have done it as well or possibly better.

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If a POC is cast in a white role, it is a victory for them. Example is how they wanted Michael B Jordan to be Superman, Idris Elba to be James Bond, and so on down the road. If white characters change to be a POC it is a victory for "representation".

I mean James Bond or Superman dont have to be white, last time I checked.
Though I admit thats hardly the best argument to make for this case
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htaeD posted...

I mean James Bond or Superman dont have to be white, last time I checked.
Though I admit thats hardly the best argument to make for this case

It is worth pointing out that superman is fictional and MLK was a real person, yes, when the accusation is "how would you feel about a WHITE GUY pretending to be MLK HUH" but you should also recognize that anyone making that argument in the first place is a moron who is only trying to waste your time and frustrate you.

As I said, there's actual hypocrisy we can point to with actual governing. Corrik ignores them because they don't make his tummy mad

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

So for me, and I am for sure not the most woke end of the left, none of those 'offend' me but it is about the fact that unless there is someone saying "uhh let's please do this right" then minorities will always get shafted when it comes to roles in hollywood because in years past they have been. I personally don't mind anyone who plays anyone that helps elevate a platform (so straight people can play gay or trans all day for all I care!)

Even if you don't want to look at it from the "woke end" you can look through it via a lens of material analysis.

A cis actor taking a role from a trans actor is directly benefitting from a paycheck that could have gone to one of these underprivileged people. The real hypocrisy here is making commercial art designed to "elevate the platform" of these underrepresented groups and not giving them as much of a cut of your profits as you can.

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I'd like to point out that Hollywood executives, when pitched a movie about Harriet Tubman--a black slave who escaped her enslavement and became a crucial part of the Underground Railroad for other escaping slaves--had the kneejerk response of "let's cast Julia Roberts in the role". The problem, Corrik, is that historically, when trying to cast the "best" actor for the role, Hollywood tends to immediately default to white actors/actresses as the "best", without necessarily doing the work to consider whether, maybe, there are PoC who might be better.

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https://twitter.com/TimAlberta/status/1313676791953846278

Man, who would have thought alienating everyone but white uneducated males would be a poor long term strategy?

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Biden's up to 87% in the model

Current swing state margins:

https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1316006191529689092

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Texas being at the bottom of the list and not being the lowest percentage irritates me.

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Inviso posted...

Texas being at the bottom of the list and not being the lowest percentage irritates me.

That's because unlike the others it's a Trump lead

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It's best for Biden to worst for Biden, so the order makes sense.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

That's because unlike the others it's a Trump lead

Oh. I missed that entirely.

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So Biden has a double digit lead nationally, a lead way outside the margin of error in key swing states, significantly less undecided voters than the last presidential election and it would require a massive shift in polling either between now and election OR one of the biggest polling errors in the history of the US (talking Dewey/Truman level).

I know we all have scars from 2016 but can we safely say at this point that the only way Trump wins is cheating? Like Biden vs. Trump is polling at Obama vs. McCain levels now.

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I wouldn't say the only way, because a 13% chance of missing your attack is far from 0%. But yes, there's absolutely a reason why they're trying so hard to rig the playing field and destroy confidence in the system

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Keep in mind it's only 13% because we're not actually on election day. If it was held today it would be significantly lower. The 13% is only accounting for possible October surprise that would cause a significant shift in the polls.

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Nanis23 posted...

You don't "act" black. You act as a "a character with black body color"
That's fucking different
The very phrase "Acting black" is super racist by the way

Took you long enough


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Also, Dems up to a 69% chance to take the Senate.

Nice.

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My wettest dream is having no republican majorities anywhere in government

I know it's unlikely, but i really hope leftists and liberals don't lose sight of local politics for another 20 years just because they control two thirds of the federal government.

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Peace___Frog posted...

My wettest dream is having no republicans anywhere in government

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Inviso posted...

I'd like to point out that Hollywood executives, when pitched a movie about Harriet Tubman--a black slave who escaped her enslavement and became a crucial part of the Underground Railroad for other escaping slaves--had the kneejerk response of "let's cast Julia Roberts in the role". The problem, Corrik, is that historically, when trying to cast the "best" actor for the role, Hollywood tends to immediately default to white actors/actresses as the "best", without necessarily doing the work to consider whether, maybe, there are PoC who might be better.

This is true, there are plenty of black actors, some of them are fantastic

But the question is more than just black people..it's about every race and nation
If it's just a matter of "white can't play black people" then fine, but how far can we stretch this?
Can a French actor play a German character, for example?

Now if I want to make a movie about Taiwan, and well, I have enough budget to cast Jackie Chan as a main role even though he isn't Taiwanese, but rather chinese, but this is close enough (in terms of looks, I don't pretend to know about how different they are in other terms like culture)
And well I am sure there are some great Taiwanese actors as well but..I can have Jackie motherfucking Chan, why would I do otherwise?
This is no racism, this is just greed for money. This all that matters to Hollywood
And this is fine (or not fine, if you want to rebel against how the world works currently and feel like it should be changed)

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I'm trying to stay somewhat grounded in reality here!

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Inviso posted...

I'd like to point out that Hollywood executives, when pitched a movie about Harriet Tubman--a black slave who escaped her enslavement and became a crucial part of the Underground Railroad for other escaping slaves--had the kneejerk response of "let's cast Julia Roberts in the role". The problem, Corrik, is that historically, when trying to cast the "best" actor for the role, Hollywood tends to immediately default to white actors/actresses as the "best", without necessarily doing the work to consider whether, maybe, there are PoC who might be better.

There can be cases of poor decisions. Hardly every movie goes with the best choice. I mean, isn't that what Weinstein was kinda about.

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Peace___Frog posted...

I wish corrik cared a quarter as much about the hypocrisy of Republicans when it came to actual governing, than he does about the preferences of liberals with respect to being respectful of stigmatized groups in the arts.

I've pointed out Republican hypocrisy on abortion repeatedly. Sorry, bud. I don't play for a team!

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https://twitter.com/internethippo/status/1316021719761448962?s=21

Whatever happened to the arrows in the quiver? ACB is going to be on the Supreme Court, so now what?

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The arrows are denying people a stimulus deal. It always was her only option. They have nothing else they can do. Deny stimulus and pack the court in February.

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Nanis23 posted...

A actor

People shouldn't sleep on the offensiveness of this

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Not entirely sure when the backlash to whitewashing started. Jennifer Lawrence played a character described as "olive-skinned" in The Hunger Games, Ben Affleck played a mixed-race real-life person in Argo (although said person didn't object to the casting), and Tilda Swinton played an Asian character in the MCU. Those movies were largely able to ride out any controversy while stuff like Ghost in the Shell, The Great Wall, and Gods of Egypt didn't. Wait a sec...

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You guys sure spent a long time arguing with Nanis when they came out swinging with "nothing wrong with blackface".

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Nanis23 posted...

Now if I want to make a movie about Taiwan, and well, I have enough budget to cast Jackie Chan as a main role even though he isn't Taiwanese, but rather chinese, but this is close enough (in terms of looks, I don't pretend to know about how different they are in other terms like culture)
And well I am sure there are some great Taiwanese actors as well but..I can have Jackie motherfucking Chan, why would I do otherwise?

just spitballing here but maybe because Jackie Chan supports the Chinese government and might not be a fit for the unique cultural perspective of Untitled Nanis Taiwan Film

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Left Wing: "POC should get more roles in Hollywood. Idris Elba would make a great James Bond."

Centrists: "OMG YOU ARE A HYPOCRITE! WOULD YOU BE OKAY WITH BEN AFFLECK PLAYING MARTIN LUTHER KING JR?"

Right Wing: "WHY DOES STAR WARS NEED A FEMALE MAIN CHARACTER?! WOMEN SHOULD NOT BE BETTER REPRESENTED IN VIDEO GAMES! I WANT MY GAME WOMEN WITH OVERSIZED BOOBS OR NOT AT ALL!"

Centrists: "This is perfectly okay."

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Dancedreamer posted...

Right Wing: " WOMEN SHOULD NOT BE BETTER REPRESENTED IN VIDEO GAMES! I WANT MY GAME WOMEN WITH OVERSIZED BOOBS OR NOT AT ALL!"

I mean this totally makes no sense at all.

They are games with created characters. The characters should be in the vision of what the creator wants, same with original movies. They shouldn't be bound by ridiculous backlash.

Being upset because women are portrayed sexually or as skinny or as etc is just as sexist. That said, quite a few of the guys that go along with this backlash are ones that idolize girls that look underaged anyways.

The male characters are just as likely to usually be represented with an attractive character just the same.

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Jackie Chan supports the Chinese government

I didn't wanna know this :(

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https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/13/politics/joe-biden-court-packing-not-a-fan/index.html

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Corrik7 posted...

The problem is that you don't want new interesting African-American stories and characters. You want to make ones that are White ones into African-American ones. Yet freak out of the reversal ever happens.

I think the issue is that Hollywood doesnt want new interesting stories and characters of any culture. They only want bankable familiarity.

And, due to the racism of the past, most of that familiarity is overwhelmed by white people.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

People shouldn't sleep on the offensiveness of this

What
What even was the context?

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