Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 328: Poll Dancing

(+) Yeah! (+)

What
That was cyncical, are you serious? I don't understand what you want
Of course we don't need a Nazi to play a Nazi character (we don't need Nazis at Hollywood..or at all)

My point is that every actor can play every character. I was just setting a Godwin Law example of why the argument that "Gal Gadot can't play Cleopatra because she is white/Israeli" is dumb

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"Will Ferrell should be able to play Dr Martin Luther King Jr".

That's you.

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

"Will Ferrell should be able to play Dr Martin Luther King Jr".

That's you.

"I have a dream. And it's corndogs, for all these people!"

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thankfully movies have already answered your question about movies

"You were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, you didn't stop to think if they should."

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Please everyone hold onto your butts for Nanis' rebuttal that "its totally different because the skin tones are close enough".

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

"Will Ferrell should be able to play Dr Martin Luther King Jr".

That's you.

He can, not should. I would believe there are actors that are more fit for the role for authentic reasons
But he absolutely can and there is nothing to be offended about. Read the fucking word ACTING
You are playing a character. You are not you. With enough make-up and special effects anything is possible

Regardless, it's pointless to continue this debate. It's clear how close minded you are

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Nanis23 posted...

With enough make-up

Nanis pro-blackface

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

Nanis pro-blackface

If you want to believe this is offensive...be my guest

But by the same token a male actor can't play a female character (mostly in parodies) with using makeup because somehow that would be offensive for females?

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StealThisSheen posted...

"I have a dream. And it's corndogs, for all these people!"

Get John C. Reilly to play a young John Lewis, and suddenly we've got a blockbuster movie on our hands.

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Nanis, I want you to stop and think about this.

In trying to sell people on the idea that white washing in Hollywood isnt a problem, the counter-example you chose to use was You wouldnt say a Nazi needs to play a Nazi!

Think about the many, many reasons why that is dumb. I believe in you. I think you can get it.

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Oh wait youve already moved on to calling for the return of blackface. Never mind, I no longer believe in you.

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Nanis23 posted...

If you want to believe this is offensive...be my guest

But by the same token a male actor can't play a female character (mostly in parodies) with using makeup because somehow that would be offensive for females?

Which inoffensive movies are you talking about that has men playing women, just out of curiosity.

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Nanis23 posted...

If you want to believe this is offensive...be my guest

But by the same token a male actor can't play a female character (mostly in parodies) with using makeup because somehow that would be offensive for females?

Going to actually wheel back a bit because I just realized your ignorance of the history of American racism in cinema means you legitimately don't have any idea what you're talking about.

Sometimes I forget there's just basic facets of the country that are completely reasonable for people in a different country to have not known about.

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Lets try an exercise.

Nanis, act like a chef.

Nanis, act like a gladiator.

Nanis, act like Spider-Man.

Nanis, act black.

Lets see if you notice the problem with any of these.

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Suprak the Stud posted...

Which inoffensive movies are you talking about that has men playing women, just out of curiosity.

Is this where we find out Naniss favorite movie is White Chicks

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Gonna throw a bone and say Mrs. Doubtfire maybe, but I haven't seen that since I was 7 so....

Though that's a man pretending to be a woman, not a man playing a woman.

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Suprak the Stud posted...

Which inoffensive movies are you talking about that has men playing women, just out of curiosity.

norbit
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actual serious answer: its not a movie, but Louie Anderson played Zach Galifinakiss mom on Baskets and it was great. inoffensive gender swapping stuff does happen sometimes
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MoogleKupo141 posted...

norbit

Didn't expect to get ptsd when I entered this topic

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HashtagSEP posted...

Nanis, I want you to stop and think about this.

In trying to sell people on the idea that white washing in Hollywood isnt a problem, the counter-example you chose to use was You wouldnt say a Nazi needs to play a Nazi!

Think about the many, many reasons why that is dumb. I believe in you. I think you can get it.

I don't, sorry to disappoint you

Suprak the Stud posted...

Which inoffensive movies are you talking about that has men playing women, just out of curiosity.

Movies..not much, really. But I am more refering to satires. Most of those examples are from Israeli TV shows so this wouldn't help you much
But it happens a lot and nobody is bothered by it - it's satire

HashtagSEP posted...

Lets try an exercise.

Nanis, act like a chef.

Nanis, act like a gladiator.

Nanis, act like Spider-Man.

Nanis, act black.

Lets see if you notice the problem with any of these.

So your logic is
A actor can play Chefs because actors that are also Chefs in real life doesn't exist/Very rare
A actor can play a gladiator because gladiators doesn't exist
A actor can play Spider-Man because it is a fictional character
But a actor can not play black characters because black people exist and they play this rule too?
Is this where you are going?

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I...

No

What

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HashtagSEP posted...

I...

No

What

So I don't understand

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What would you do as you act like a chef? Pretend to cook.

What would you do as you act like a gladiator? Pretend to fight.

What would you do as you act like like Spider-Man? Pretend to shoot webs and climb walls and shit.

Now tell me what you would do as you act black.

Lets see if you can figure out why theyre ACTORS, its ACTING, they can just ACT black isnt like those other things.

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HashtagSEP posted...

What would you do as you act like a chef? Pretend to cook.

What would you do as you act like a gladiator? Pretend to fight.

What would you do as you act like like Spider-Man? Pretend to shoot webs and climb walls and shit.

Now tell me what you would do as you act black.

Lets see if you can figure out why theyre ACTORS, its ACTING, they can just ACT black isnt like those other things.

You don't "act" black. You act as a "a character with black body color"
That's fucking different
The very phrase "Acting black" is super racist by the way

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How is "having black body color" acting Nanis?

You're acting as a lawyer/soldier/homeless guy.

Who is black.

The black part... doesn't involve acting.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

https://twitter.com/chucklindell/status/1315883900418379777?s=21

ughhhhh

Fuck Abbott

You have no idea. It's awful. Also the AG here is literally an indicted (but not yet convicted because he's abusing his office to stonewall the trial) felon, and was indicted before he was elected.

LordoftheMorons posted...

https://dangoodspeed.com/covid/total-cases-since-june

Amazing, especially since there seems to be so much backlash about how blue states handled everything.

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That graphic is since June 1. Make it from the beginning and you'll get a very different picture.

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Reg posted...

You have no idea. It's awful. Also the AG here is literally an indicted (but not yet convicted because he's abusing his office to stonewall the trial) felon, and was indicted before he was elected.

Jesus

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Nanis, you are going to have to learn that liberals are hypocrites regarding this. Nothing more.

If a POC is cast in a white role, it is a victory for them. Example is how they wanted Michael B Jordan to be Superman, Idris Elba to be James Bond, and so on down the road. If white characters change to be a POC it is a victory for "representation".

If Scarlet Johansen plays a character in a Ghost in the Shell, if whatever character that is white plays a POC (even if same skin color) it is whitewashing and bad.

It's hypocrisy.

Imagine this. They wanted a star actress to play a transgender character. The thinking is if a star played in the film the film might get more eye balls and representation. Instead, liberals freaked out a non-transgender person was playing the role. The star backs out amid the backlash. The movie has very slim pickings for who to cast now and shutters. Was that a victory for their cause?

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red sox 777 posted...

That graphic is since June 1. Make it from the beginning and you'll get a very different picture.

True that it's since June 1, but by that time we generally had the capabilities to handle the virus (e.g. we knew masks worked, we had a pretty decent amount of tests, I guess it probably was not yet entirely clear how much better being outside was but we knew it was qualitatively better, etc) vs in March where literally the only knob was how fast and completely you shut down relative to when the virus was introduced to the state (and, generally speaking, the virus hit blue areas first). There's less of an excuse for fucking up in June than March.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

True that it's since June 1, but by that time we generally had the capabilities to handle the virus (e.g. we knew masks worked, we had a pretty decent amount of tests, I guess it probably was not yet entirely clear how much better being outside was but we knew it was qualitatively better, etc) vs in March where literally the only knob was how fast and completely you shut down relative to when the virus was introduced to the state (and, generally speaking, the virus hit blue areas first). There's less of an excuse for fucking up in June than March.

Blue states did better later on because they had so many cases early on that their R value was much lower by June. Partial herd immunity.

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I thought they had done some kind of research and found that immunity only lasted 3 or so months. Was that incorrect?

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So Susan Collins is going full Trump and accusing Sara Gideon of accepting money from Planned Parenthood.

You know what Susan Collins accepted from Planned Parenthood? A fucking award:
https://www.plannedparenthood.org/about-us/newsroom/press-releases/planned-parenthood-honors-u-s-senator-susan-collins


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RaidenGarai posted...

I thought they had done some kind of research and found that immunity only lasted 3 or so months. Was that incorrect?

That's antibodies actually present in the body. But the body retains the ability to produce antibodies for longer periods of time, which is all that is needed for immunity, provided that the virus doesn't mutate enough to render previous antibodies ineffective.

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RaidenGarai posted...

I thought they had done some kind of research and found that immunity only lasted 3 or so months. Was that incorrect?

Yes that is incorrect. Antibodies last a few weeks, but that is not the immunity. The immunity is the remembered response in your cells. We have no idea how long it lasts but it is theorized it could be relatively long.

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Peace___Frog posted...

Jesus

Yup. Rural Texas will vote for literally anybody running as a Republican and Houston/Austin/Dallas do not turn out enough to counterbalance that.

Corrik7 posted...

If a POC is cast in a white role, it is a victory for them. Example is how they wanted Michael B Jordan to be Superman, Idris Elba to be James Bond, and so on down the road. If white characters change to be a POC it is a victory for "representation".

RWNJ literally threw a fucking fit when Michael B. Jordan was cast as Johnny Storm and Idris Elba as Heimdall. They're still bitching about there being a black MJ in Spider-Man and a black Ariel in Little Mermaid.

Corrik7 posted...

If Scarlet Johansen plays a character in a Ghost in the Shell, if whatever character that is white plays a POC (even if same skin color) it is whitewashing and bad.

Because there's a million more roles for "attractive white woman" than there is for Asian women in film.

Corrik7 posted...

Imagine this. They wanted a star actress to play a transgender character. The thinking is if a star played in the film the film might get more eye balls and representation. Instead, liberals freaked out a non-transgender person was playing the role. The star backs out amid the backlash. The movie has very slim pickings for who to cast now and shutters. Was that a victory for their cause?

Because, once again, there's a million more roles for cisgender people than transgender people. It's "slim pickings" because society is still rather unaccepting for transgender men and women, and therefore they struggle to break into most industries including film. It's why 13% of transgender men and women have ended up participating in the sex work industry.

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red sox 777 posted...

Blue states did better later on because they had so many cases early on that their R value was much lower by June. Partial herd immunity.

Blue states that were not initially hit hard did better later on as well. Even in the hardest hit areas (e.g. NYC) estimates I've seen are that maybe 20% of people got the virus (which is enough to give a pretty decent reduction to R, but certainly far from actual herd immunity). Most places didn't get hit that hard, though. A 5% reduction or something in a pretty hard-hit place helps, but it's not exactly a game-changer.

RaidenGarai posted...

I thought they had done some kind of research and found that immunity only lasted 3 or so months. Was that incorrect?

I think you probably either misinterpreted what you were reading or the finding was poorly reported. I believe there have been results that show things like immunity typically lasting for at least several months, but those don't preclude it lasting longer (basically the issue is that if the virus has been generally around for, say, 6 months, a study can't really show that immunity lasts longer than 6 months). There have been a relatively small number (I think maybe several 10s?) of documented reinfections, but if immunity really was only 3 months for most people you'd expect more than that.

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red sox 777 posted...

That's antibodies actually present in the body. But the body retains the ability to produce antibodies for longer periods of time, which is all that is needed for immunity, provided that the virus doesn't mutate enough to render previous antibodies ineffective.

Corrik7 posted...

Yes that is incorrect. Antibodies last a few weeks, but that is not the immunity. The immunity is the remembered response in your cells. We have no idea how long it lasts but it is theorized it could be relatively long.

Got it, thanks! That always confused me, since there were people that tested positive months apart. So those people either had false positives, or never fully recovered?

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TheRock1525 posted...

RWNJ literally threw a fucking fit when Michael B. Jordan was cast as Johnny Storm and Idris Elba as Heimdall. They're still bitching about there being a black MJ in Spider-Man and a black Ariel in Little Mermaid.

Because there's a million more roles for "attractive white woman" than there is for Asian women in film.

Because, once again, there's a million more roles for cisgender people than transgender people. It's "slim pickings" because society is still rather unaccepting for transgender men and women, and therefore they struggle to break into most industries including film. It's why 13% of transgender men and women have ended up participating in the sex work industry.

You are a hypocrite. There is nothing else to say. You complain it is an issue but are okay when it happens one way and not another. Hypocrite. Simple as that. It's either wrong or it is acceptable. There is no picking and choosing.

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RaidenGarai posted...

Got it, thanks! That always confused me, since there were people that tested positive months apart. So those people either had false positives, or never fully recovered?

No person with reinfection has been proven to actually have been reinfected as of now. Most get disproved, if not all.

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RaidenGarai posted...

Got it, thanks! That always confused me, since there were people that tested positive months apart. So those people either had false positives, or never fully recovered?

Probably some of them caught different strains of virus. Fortunately there haven't been many cases like that so far, so the mutation rate is probably not so high that we are doomed as a civilization.

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Corrik7 posted...

You are a hypocrite. There is nothing else to say. You complain it is an issue but are okay when it happens one way and not another. Hypocrite. Simple as that. It's either wrong or it is acceptable. There is no picking and choosing.

"Oh, won't some PLEASE think of the poor white people?! We only control the vast majority of corporations, media and governments, but gosh darn it we also need to be able to play that role of a transgender woman in a movie instead of an actual transgender woman or that would be UNFAIR!"

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There have apparently been five confirmed cases of reinfection (one in the US):

https://twitter.com/npr/status/1315786828939767809?s=21

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TheRock1525 posted...

"Oh, won't some PLEASE think of the poor white people?! We only control the vast majority of corporations, media and governments, but gosh darn it we also need to be able to play that role of a transgender woman in a movie instead of an actual transgender woman or that would be UNFAIR!"

Nice try, but you are just hypocritical, bud.



Not much more to say about it. So we can move along.

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If a POC is cast in a white role, it is a victory for them. Example is how they wanted Michael B Jordan to be Superman, Idris Elba to be James Bond, and so on down the road. If white characters change to be a POC it is a victory for "representation".

If Scarlet Johansen plays a character in a Ghost in the Shell, if whatever character that is white plays a POC (even if same skin color) it is whitewashing and bad.

It's hypocrisy.

Definition of hypocrisy
1 : a feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not : behavior that contradicts what one claims to believe or feel

what liberals would claim to believe is not that characters must always be played by actors of the same race. Instead they would claim to believe that white people are overrepresented in our movies and people of color are underrepresented.

Casting non-white actors as traditionally white characters is an attempt to remedy that situation, while casting white people as traditionally nonwhite characters exacerbates the problem. The behavior does not contradict the belief at all.

not hypocrisy.
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Corrik7 posted...

You are a hypocrite. There is nothing else to say. You complain it is an issue but are okay when it happens one way and not another. Hypocrite. Simple as that. It's either wrong or it is acceptable. There is no picking and choosing.

The way I see it, the idea is that there are more and more people of color (and women for that matter, and presumably LGBT people too) in Hollywood's ranks, so the idea is that taking roles away from them looks bad. I'm not a big fan of this kind of controversy but at this point it should be easy enough to avoid. It's similar logic to why I think branding certain films as "woke" is ridiculous.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

There have apparently been five confirmed cases of reinfection (one in the US):

https://twitter.com/npr/status/1315786828939767809?s=21

What I read on the TV Tropes page for the pandemic (laugh all you want) is that people who tend to catch the virus again after getting better tend to suffer even worse because their bodies are weaker. So blue states handling the pandemic better after the initial wave can probably be chalked up to people just being smart enough to know what to do.

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Five reinfections out of all of them so far is a really low number, considering the number of cases we have. That's promising at least!

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