Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 303: The System Doesn't Work

(+) Yeah! (+)

Looks like there's going to be investigations into voter fraud for GA. It was hell across the state, but malfunctions were highly more common in areas with a higher number of minority voters.

Kemp is a piece of shit. There need to be investigations even if Ossof wins.

---

McConnell says he won't take up/work on any further COVID relief plan until the second half of July.

bold strategy

---

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Looks like there's going to be investigations into voter fraud for GA. It was hell across the state, but malfunctions were highly more common in areas with a higher number of minority voters.

Kemp is a piece of shit. There need to be investigations even if Ossof wins.

Ossoff is going to win in a landslide. But, yes, for sure.

---

xp1337 posted...

McConnell says he won't take up/work on any further COVID relief plan until the second half of July.

bold strategy

Well, Trump did double down on the "fuck old people" strategy just this morning, after all

---

xp1337 posted...

McConnell says he won't take up/work on any further COVID relief plan until the second half of July.

bold strategy

Spoilers: In July, he'll say there isn't enough time to do anything before the August recess. In September, he'll say there isn't time to do anything before the October recess. What exactly happens after that depends on the election results, but I can assure you that no possible outcome leads to the Senate passing any COVID relief bills.
---

Xeybozn posted...

Spoilers: In July, he'll say there isn't enough time to do anything before the August recess. In September, he'll say there isn't time to do anything before the October recess. What exactly happens after that depends on the election results, but I can assure you that no possible outcome leads to the Senate passing any COVID relief bills.

They're going to pass it just in time for the election so Trump can tout it and it will be fresh in everyone's minds.

---

I get so many calls each day "I got my letter from trump, but I didn't get my stimulus check".

It is infuriating.

They cared more about making sure EVERYONE in the world got a letter, whether or not anything happened that might have caused a delay on the check/debit card/direct deposit or might have caused them to not receive it at all (child support). And so these people are getting letters "signed by donald trump" about the money "he" is giving them whether or not they are actually getting the money.

---

currently sitting back and watching what happens to Seattle.
this idea of taking over part of the city sure seems like a great idea.


---

I just saw the end of Monday's Trump conference.

lol

---

It is pretty weird that the only places talking about Free Capitol Hill are a few local sites, twitter leftists/anarchists and isolated conservative pundits blaming it on Antifa.

It's been a whole-ass day and the major media outlets seem to have no idea what to make of the weirdest thing to come out of the protests.

---

Speaking of police needing oversight, did we ever learn anything more about Epsteins death?
---

Yeah, it should be major news. An armed insurrection sectioning off a part of a major US city? It's a massive escalation of all the arguments wrapped in one. Wanna argue them as commies, you're good. Wanna argue them as terrorists, you're good. Wanna argue them as people defending against the police, you're good. Wanna argue them as people proving you don't need police? Good again. And of course, can argue it as the masses rising against a tyranical government. You'd have expected that one to come from the right but nope!

Current status is entirely up in the air but leaves a lot of uncomfortable situation. Could be a case where military is legit necessary. Could be a case where psychology rears its head and new power corrupts, making everything horrific. Could be a case where a proof of concept pushes forward.

Personally expecting it to be a powder kegs that blows up horribly as it escalates, collapsing on itself before outside forces need to clean it up. Anything better than that is probably a success.


---

Jakyl25 posted...

Speaking of police needing oversight, did we ever learn anything more about Epsteins death?

Funny you mention that since the FBI is after Prince Andrew again.

And nope! All just a series of coincidences and a situation that just isn't worth network television.

---

https://twitter.com/ItssDunke/status/1270386352161505283

KKK protesting in Georgia. Weird how the police aren't wearing riot gear and aren't using tear gas or rubber bullets.

---

Kinglicious posted...

Yeah, it should be major news. An armed insurrection sectioning off a part of a major US city? It's a massive escalation of all the arguments wrapped in one. Wanna argue them as commies, you're good. Wanna argue them as terrorists, you're good. Wanna argue them as people defending against the police, you're good. Wanna argue them as people proving you don't need police? Good again. And of course, can argue it as the masses rising against a tyranical government. You'd have expected that one to come from the right but nope!

Current status is entirely up in the air but leaves a lot of uncomfortable situation. Could be a case where military is legit necessary. Could be a case where psychology rears its head and new power corrupts, making everything horrific. Could be a case where a proof of concept pushes forward.

Personally expecting it to be a powder kegs that blows up horribly as it escalates, collapsing on itself before outside forces need to clean it up. Anything better than that is probably a success.

Didn't the leader get accused of sexual assault and abuse and then step down like almost immediately after that?

---

Completely dismantle the police and start from scratch. Maybe the whole government while were at it. I know that money could be allocated better than it is. Its going in the pockets of the higher ups and Corrik wants to give them more money.

PerfectChaosZ posted...

Completely dismantle the police and start from scratch. Maybe the whole government while were at it. I know that money could be allocated better than it is. Its going in the pockets of the higher ups and Corrik wants to give them more money.

Ah, another overthrow the government type.

---

PerfectChaosZ posted...

Completely dismantle the police and start from scratch. Maybe the whole government while were at it. I know that money could be allocated better than it is. Its going in the pockets of the higher ups and Corrik wants to give them more money.

More importantly, Joe Biden wants to give them more money to "reform". Which I guess is more training on how to shoot people in the leg instead.

Joe Biden is a fucking idiot and I swear to god if I didn't know any better this absolute joke of a candidate is trying to lose at this point.

---

Joe Biden has been doing his best to make me switch back to not voting for him again.

Just incredibly how he can't open his mouth without hurting his campaign. As was said all those months ago he just needs to shut up and stop talking.

---

I mean, that's also what Bernie wants to do

"Dismantle the police" is unfortunately not a winning or even viable platform right now, politicians have decided.

---

How can people literally know about the police being corrupt for years to the extent that we were making jokes about the police killing black people back in the 70s in our media and we even have video evidence of corruption over and over and over and still not be in favor of it. Our laws are literally archaic, it needs a complete overhaul.

HashtagSEP posted...

I mean, that's also what Bernie wants to do

"Dismantle the police" is unfortunately not a winning or even viable platform right now, politicians have decided.

And I'm disappointed he did after he initially was about giving officers more accountability. And I don't disagree with cops needing more mental health options among other things, but giving them more money to fuck about with is asinine, especially since you know it will be used in any way to skirt the system.

You can give them all the morality training, all the safety training, everything you want. They're still going to do whatever they want because the system allows it. Make it so people can actually get in trouble for this shit and they will stop. It's like dealing with a child. They'll keep doing the same thing and acting out until you punish them.

---

https://joebiden.com/justice/

I mean if you want to read that and then criticize Biden's platform as harshly as you criticize Trump's, then fine. There are a lot of things in there that I really like. Yes, he's an old person and yes, he completely misses the point on some issues. But this is at least progress and he is at least listening to the protestors.

---

dismantle the police is a stupid take tbh.

---

I honestly think Biden's platform on it isn't bad at all, he just had that unfortunate "Shoot them in the leg" soundbite. There's a reason his and Bernie's are so close in what they aim to do. He's actually listening and adapting a lot more than I expected.

---

Suprak the Stud posted...

https://joebiden.com/justice/

I mean if you want to read that and then criticize Biden's platform as harshly as you criticize Trump's, then fine. There are a lot of things in there that I really like. Yes, he's an old person and yes, he completely misses the point on some issues. But this is at least progress and he is at least listening to the protestors.

I was going by what he said during the George Floyd thing yesterday, but this does lay it out much better. A lot of it is absolute wishful thinking and I feel like it will never happen, but him being able to express any of this in a rational way that people won't hate will not happen. Because he'll say "Well, we just need to teach them to shoot people in the legs" but the policies are actually, you know, something that isn't batshit.

And yes, dismantle the police is a stupid take that should not be taken seriously.

---

So I mean Joe Biden's biggest issue is he says stupid things. Like, all the time. He can't help himself. "Shoot them in the leg" is obvious just insanely stupid, but I'd rather not reduce his platform just down to the worst thing he's said when overall I think there is a lot more good than bad. He has a very competent team around him already that is largely steering his policy in the right direction and I'm hoping his administration would be equally competently staffed.

But yeah a lot likely will not happen unless a miracle happens and the dems somehow win the senate. I don't expect them to pick up more than a single seat, honestly, so that seems very unlikely.

---

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

And I'm disappointed he did after he initially was about giving officers more accountability. And I don't disagree with cops needing more mental health options among other things, but giving them more money to fuck about with is asinine, especially since you know it will be used in any way to skirt the system.

Well, Bernie is also very much for accountability stuff like suspending qualified immunity and having individual officers be liable instead of the city. He just also loves cops and wants to pay them more.

It's actually pretty frustrating because both Bernie and Biden agree with some of the major Defund ideas like reducing scope of police, making social workers more involved, investing heavily in community rehabilitation and housing as crime prevention to reduce the need for policing...but they want to do this while giving the police MORE money.

I mean come on. Without defunding the police, how are they going to pay for it???

---

Suprak the Stud posted...

So I mean Joe Biden's biggest issue is he says stupid things. Like, all the time. He can't help himself. "Shoot them in the leg" is obvious just insanely stupid, but I'd rather not reduce his platform just down to the worst thing he's said when overall I think there is a lot more good than bad. He has a very competent team around him already that is largely steering his policy in the right direction and I'm hoping his administration would be equally competently staffed.

But yeah a lot likely will not happen unless a miracle happens and the dems somehow win the senate. I don't expect them to pick up more than a single seat, honestly, so that seems very unlikely.

Hence why I go back to saying it feels like he's trying to lose the election. He can't stop from saying outlandishly stupid things and he's just going to struggle in any debate because he can't articulate his platform properly even when he isn't sounding like an idiot. It just feels gross having to vote for someone who is, at best, a senile puppet.

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Well, Bernie is also very much for accountability stuff like suspending qualified immunity and having individual officers be liable instead of the city. He just also loves cops and wants to pay them more.

It's actually pretty frustrating because both Bernie and Biden agree with some of the major Defund ideas like reducing scope of police, making social workers more involved, investing heavily in community rehabilitation and housing as crime prevention to reduce the need for policing...but they want to do this while giving the police MORE money.

I mean come on. Without defunding the police, how are they going to pay for it???

It's fucking easy. Force a reallocation of funds. Get rid of the police union and replace it with their ideas for an oversight committee that does not work for the police in any way at all. This can't be a fair system until the union is out of there, or else they'll just keep fighting and find reasons to ensure these people keep their jobs or lessen these infractions or do shit like make them take a class they'll blow off and toss them back on the force until the next time they screw up.

---

Union busting is not the answer

Whoever replaces it will need a union
---

the police union has little in common with traditional labor unions

---

DeepsPraw posted...

the police union has little in common with traditional labor unions

Pretty similar... Source (Been in a union the past 11 years and currently).

---

PerfectChaosZ posted...

How can people literally know about the police being corrupt for years to the extent that we were making jokes about the police killing black people back in the 70s in our media and we even have video evidence of corruption over and over and over and still not be in favor of it. Our laws are literally archaic, it needs a complete overhaul.

Because people rely on the police to protect them. They trust their police to do the job right. It's other cops that are bad. Many of them know their local police. They're friends with them. Some of them are even family. The message of "Defund The Police" is not going to be a popular one because people aren't going to look up and see what it actually means. You say "Defund Police" and most people think "Let the criminals run free!" They don't think in terms of complex policy. Even Bernie Sanders won't go that far because he knows it doesn't play well with people who don't understand the message. And sometimes, making your message clear is VERY important.

That cops don't actually make us more safe doesn't matter. The perception that they do, does. People have long been taught to trust and respect officers. They're just a step below the military.

I think most people recognize that change is necessary. They might disagree on what changes are needed. But using messaging like "Defund Police" isn't going to play well. And people are going to use the messaging against those who do. "They don't support cops! They don't care about law and order!" People like order. Or at least the perception of order. And most of them have it.

You have to remember the average white person isn't someone who's had issues with police. They see things as "Well, I've never had problems with cops. Just don't commit crimes, and you'll be fine." That's why the messaging on these cases have always been to attack the character of the individual who was killed. Often with misinformation.

So to them, "Defund Police" means something entirely different, and they aren't willing to look into what it means. It's why a lot of people are staying away from that phrase. Including those who are allies of the movement to reform and replace police with something better.


---

Ashethan posted...

Because people rely on the police to protect them. They trust their police to do the job right. It's other cops that are bad.

Their message is ACAB, bud. You already lost them.

---

Corrik legit sees ACAB as a proactive stance rather than a reactive one. That's why he's never gonna get it.

---

Jakyl25 posted...

Union busting is not the answer

Whoever replaces it will need a union

Not_an_Owl posted...

If you don't see the difference between a labor union (whose purpose is to improve working conditions for its members) and a police union (whose purpose is to shield its members from all consequences of their actions, including when said members literally murder people) then you may need to get your eyes checked.

---

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Corrik legit sees ACAB as a proactive stance rather than a reactive one. That's why he's never gonna get it.

It's a dumb stance. Period.


---

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Just incredibly how he can't open his mouth without hurting his campaign. As was said all those months ago he just needs to shut up and stop talking.

He hasn't actually hurt his campaign yet despite people trying to say this.

Hell even when he said the quiet part loud about the black vote it didn't really seem to hurt polling.

Yeah, Biden saying dumb stuff seems like a pretty non-starter because for every one dumb thing he says, Trump says like 30 dumb things, so people aren't gonna suddenly jump ship over it.

---

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

It's fucking easy. Force a reallocation of funds. Get rid of the police union and replace it with their ideas for an oversight committee that does not work for the police in any way at all. This can't be a fair system until the union is out of there, or else they'll just keep fighting and find reasons to ensure these people keep their jobs or lessen these infractions or do shit like make them take a class they'll blow off and toss them back on the force until the next time they screw up.

Yeah if politicians don't want to use the "defund the police" slogan they could easily go with the "reallocate funds" terminology that is identical from a practical standpoint, but they can't even do that.

---

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Yeah if politicians don't want to use the "defund the police" slogan they could easily go with the "reallocate funds" terminology that is identical from a practical standpoint, but they can't even do that.

"Reallocate funds" is a horrible slogan and doesn't inspire anyone.

---

People probably need to realize that Joe Biden's "awww shucks I misspoke" gaffes are part of the appeal.

You'd think after watching Trump do it for years now. Being a old white dude in America is a free ride.

---

The police thing is a red herring. Police have more confrontations with minority for crime and violent crime per population than they do Whites... thus there is more deaths for minorities per population than whites also due to police. That is pretty cleanly seen in stats.

The question is why do minorities have this greater share of crime creating more interaction with police which causes this? And, this is why the media keeps you caught on the chain about police brutality instead of the bigger picture.

Crime is disproportionately caused by the poor. The poorer the neighborhood you are in, the more crime around it there will be. This is pretty much true everywhere. Minorities that have more interaction with the police are minorities that are in particular poorer subsets of the society.

The answer isn't defunding police. The answer is fixing economic disparity. And, when Whites can't understand white privilege, it is because they are usually whites from the same boat in poor households. They struggled their whole life too, were brought up in the same conditions, and etc.

It's not White Privilege. It's not Police Brutality. It's not systemic Racism. It's class disparity.

---

Literally zero of what you said in that post explains how it's "not police brutality."

---

Corrik7 posted...

The police thing is a red herring. Police have more confrontations with minority for crime and violent crime per population than they do Whites... thus there is more deaths for minorities per population than whites also due to police. That is pretty cleanly seen in stats.

Two words: Breonna Taylor.

Two more words: Tamir Rice.

Two more words: Philando Castille.

---

Corrik7 posted...

It's not White Privilege. It's not Police Brutality. It's not systemic Racism. It's class disparity.

Whites commit 65% of all crime but are currently 40%ish of incarceration.

And no, it's not a type of crime thing. Whites hold this lead pretty much across the board aside murder, but murder is way less than 1% of all crime.

Ashethan posted...

Two words: Breonna Taylor.

Two more words: Tamir Rice.

Two more words: Philando Castille.

Mistakes happen. They happen with White people also, Ashe.

---

Corrik7 posted...

Mistakes happen.

You're a hopeless idiot.

---

The correct take is actually that it is all 4 of those things, Corrik.

You're dead wrong, Corrik

The police are undeniably out of control. Not sure how you can see George Floyd die and say it's George's fault for being black.

You can go on and on about how black people commit more crimes on average. That doesn't excuse the fact that cops are kneeling on people's necks and killing them. In what world is that acceptable behavior?

---