Board 8 > Caught some students cheating in my class. What would you do?

(+) Yeah! (+)

The class I'm teaching transitioned to online-only (as did just about every college class in the country) a few weeks ago. Today was our first online exam, and I have a preponderance of evidence to suggest that my three student athletes all cheated.

All three finished with the exact same score (19/21 correct), missed the same two problems, and selected the same wrong answers for those two problems. Additionally, the exam log paints a very clear picture that the strongest student led the way with the other two copying his answers. This exam was open book, open note, and open Google. The one major restriction was that it still needed to be attempted individually, and these three students clearly did not abide by that rule.

I'm confident that my evidence is iron-clad and that I could, should I care to, launch an inquiry into academic misconduct and get them suspended from the business school. Buuuuut given that I don't want to ruin these kids, that I want to be more lenient given all that shit going on this semester, and that I'm a part-time instructor who barely gets paid for this... I really don't want to go through all the trouble.

Rather, I'm posting this because I feel like sharing the story and getting your perspectives. Board 8 - if you were teaching a college class and clearly caught students cheating, what would you do?

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CaptainOfCrush posted...

Buuuuut given that I don't want to ruin these kids

Good news, they did that, not you

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A great point

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Given these times I would simply write a note to each of them explaining everything you did and going "Everyone gets 1. Don't let me catch you again."

At the very least they will either be very stupid or vary their tactics, but either way given everything atm I don't have the heart to really take something like this personally.

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they could literally Google answers. if they didn't want to get into trouble they should've put literally any effort into being subtle
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Isn't it just as likely, all three used the same notes and that's why they got the same wrong answer on an open-note test?

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Academic honesty is an important lesson for them to learn.

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Given these times I would simply write a note to each of them explaining everything you did and going "Everyone gets 1. Don't let me catch you again."

This is what I would do also.

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Business school? And they didn't obey the literally only regulation they had to follow?

Not only should you not suspend them, you should give them A's and take note of their names for when they make it big in the real world.

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Ashethan posted...

Isn't it just as likely, all three used the same notes and that's why they got the same wrong answer on an open-note test?

A good question, but not at all. One of the missed questions was conceptual, and it is much more likely that they copied as opposed to using the notes to arrive at the same incorrect answer.

Additionally, the exam logs indicate that they answered many of the same questions within seconds of each other, despite the fact that they were in random order (meaning they answered the same question at the same time, even though it was Question #2 on one student's exam and Question #18 on the other's).

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I dont think that could even be proven for a test like that

they could argue they just happened to googled one of the more popular sources of information that happened to be either wrong or worded in a misleading way and made the same mistakes (so they all "copied" from a legal source instead of each other)

deep down we'll all know its probably BS...but it can't really be proven.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Given these times I would simply write a note to each of them explaining everything you did and going "Everyone gets 1. Don't let me catch you again."

This is probably what I'd do anyway, but especially in these times.
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CaptainOfCrush posted...

Additionally, the exam logs indicate that they answered many of the same questions within seconds of each other, despite the fact that they were in random order (meaning they answered the same question at the same time, even though it was Question #2 on one student's exam and Question #18 on the other's).

This is pretty much ironclad proof they collaborated.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Given these times I would simply write a note to each of them explaining everything you did and going "Everyone gets 1. Don't let me catch you again."

At the very least they will either be very stupid or vary their tactics, but either way given everything atm I don't have the heart to really take something like this personally.

Do this though.

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seems reasonable

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I would probably not care to do anything if I were in your position.

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And yeah, I was leaning toward what Chris said. A part of my lazy ass wants to ignore it altogether, but it would leave a bad taste in my mouth knowing that two of these guys would celebrate an unearned 90% while I was on the phone consoling a poor guy who tried his hardest, failed, and was nearly in tears when talking to me about it.

Plus, I'd rather have them get caught by me and hopefully learn a lesson than by a hardass who shows zero sympathy and skewers them.

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CaptainOfCrush posted...

but it would leave a bad taste in my mouth knowing that two of these guys would celebrate an unearned 90% while I was on the phone consoling a poor guy who tried his hardest, failed, and was nearly in tears when talking to me about it.

Oof. Okay I can see your hesitation.

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Is giving them all a new test a possibility at all?

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I would flunk them. I think it's the right thing to do.

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How do you console a guy that failed an open book, open Google test?

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Flunk em with a note 'get used to the first of many slaps on the wrist'

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I'd say confront them with the evidence with the intent of letting them off, and see if they talk themselves into a grave.

If they are really that dumb, they'll inadvertently let you know at that point.

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Yeah I would be tempted to deal with this in-house and lower their grade. Just like, put them on notice, especially if they've been clean up til now.

But I teach 9 year olds so I'm naturally inclined to be a bit more merciful

Definitely don't ignore them though.

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SavageInTheBox posted...

How do you console a guy that failed an open book, open Google test?

It's elementary finance and largely calc-based. The open resources won't help much if you naturally just struggle with numbers.

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My school obligates us to report students for dishonesty (though we're allowed to recommend a punishment like a zero). Generally I would rather just give a zero and be done with it, but last semester I had a student who was a repeat offender and I wouldn't have otherwise known that.

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_SecretSquirrel posted...

I'd say confront them with the evidence with the intent of letting them off, and see if they talk themselves into a grave.

If they are really that dumb, they'll inadvertently let you know at that point.

i'd take this approach.
you give them an out.

confront them with it, don't give all details yet but see what it takes for them to admit it. if they own up, continue with the warning.
if they don't, if they decide to get hostile, then it's on them.

a quiet 'aha, i gotcha" doesn't do much.
but a "fuck up like this with the wrong guy and your career's dead" can.


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I actually dealt with something similar a year ago when I was TAing. In that case the cheating was on homework which they were allowed to collaborate on, but which was worth 75% of the grade for the class. The psets were quite hard, and we used some problems whose solutions (with substantial effort) could be found online. I caught them basically because these solutions from another professor used some really weird and distinct notation which I have never seen anyone write before and it showed up in a bunch of their answers.

Anyway, if the class had had exams I probably would have just let it slide other than maybe being a hardass about grading their psets, but since we didn't I had to tell my advisor. We ended up giving them zeroes on the problems they copied and my advisor made me call them all in for meetings to tell them about it and that cheating is wrong/could have considerably harsher consequences/etc (which kind of sucked and my advisor should have dealt with that himself...)

I'd probably give them zeroes on the exam and tell them that if they can either accept that or take their chances with the university's formal academic dishonesty process; it's up to you if you also want to talk to them about it one on one.

Of the 7(?) only one of them claimed he had no idea what I was talking about and that he didn't cheat, only admitting to working with one of the other dudes I caught (separately I suspected these two guys of straight up copying each others' psets for the duration of the class; while you could work with others, you had to write up your own solutions). I told him that he could take it up with the professor if he really wanted to (don't think he did).

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Can't prove that they just didn't study together and study with the wrong answer for both those said problems each time.

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CaptainOfCrush posted...

A good question, but not at all. One of the missed questions was conceptual, and it is much more likely that they copied as opposed to using the notes to arrive at the same incorrect answer.

Additionally, the exam logs indicate that they answered many of the same questions within seconds of each other, despite the fact that they were in random order (meaning they answered the same question at the same time, even though it was Question #2 on one student's exam and Question #18 on the other's).

Oh nevermind.

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Scare them a bit but just give them a warning in the end unless they're assholes about it. Make they really thought open-book meant they could take it together. If it's that blatant you can't just ignore it but I hear you not wanting to throw the book being part-time and in dark times.

Maybe make a post restating that tests still have to be taken individually and that even if it's open book/google cheating is still serious and such.

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If you acknowledge it, you basically should punish them as you should be punishing them. It takes one person just leaking how they got one by you after the semester and/or people claiming favoritism to student athletes or such to end your job (if not tenured yet).

That's the nature of teaching anymore. So, I'd advise treat it as you normally would. Or to Ignore it and message out a warning before the next exam to everyone. Then if someone breaks it again after the warning, going about it as you normally would.

I would definitely not do anything to notify them they were cheating and let them go directly.

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CaptainOfCrush posted...

And yeah, I was leaning toward what Chris said. A part of my lazy ass wants to ignore it altogether, but it would leave a bad taste in my mouth knowing that two of these guys would celebrate an unearned 90% while I was on the phone consoling a poor guy who tried his hardest, failed, and was nearly in tears when talking to me about it.

Plus, I'd rather have them get caught by me and hopefully learn a lesson than by a hardass who shows zero sympathy and skewers them.

There needs to be at least some consequence. Even if the consequence is a warning. Those kids need to learn that as much as they need not to have their lives ruined by a suspension.

And if they break the rule again, fulfill your warning and suspend their asses. Including of the guy who helped them.

I would punish them because they were stupid and got caught.

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Janus5k posted...

My school obligates us to report students for dishonesty (though we're allowed to recommend a punishment like a zero). Generally I would rather just give a zero and be done with it, but last semester I had a student who was a repeat offender and I wouldn't have otherwise known that.

A zero is a good punishment imo, especially if there is a system like a final exam where the students are allowed to try again during vacation time. A loss of one vacation is a way to teach consequences without ruining their lives.

You need to at minimum take off points imo; otherwise it actually was to their advantage to cheat (and no lesson will be learned at all).

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just fail them

they had to know that was the risk before they cheated, and it's unfair to the kids who didn't cheat
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I would give them a 0. This is a college course, it's long past the time you need to be coddling them. They broke the rules, there are consequences for that, and they need to pay them.

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bryans7 posted...

I would give them a 0. This is a college course, it's long past the time you need to be coddling them. They broke the rules, there are consequences for that, and they need to pay them.

If the rules for open book specify they have to do it individually, Id go the 0 route.

Also, I wouldnt lay out specifically how they cheated unless they push back, because telling them you answered the same questions in the same order could just make them cover their tracks better if theyre real shitheads.

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*cue porn music*

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who wants my nuts

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Fail them

Couldnt fucking stand cheaters in school. Going to university the foreign exchange students were constantly cheating on tests/assignments, but no teachers ever did anything because they were "afraid to ruin their lives". Fuck that, play stupid games win stupid prizes

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Fail them on the exam at the absolute least. If this were high school, I'd probably tell them not to pull that shit again and report any future offenses by the same people, but college is a different animal and I'd say open up the investigation.

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SantaRPidgey posted...

Good news, they did that, not you

Authoritarian af. Yo is the judge and jury in this case. Dismissing his agency here just so he doesn't have to feel guilty is super cowardly.

If you think the right punishment is a 0 then that seems like the way to go.

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I mean there are times when authoratian is an appropriate response. Certain crimes have strict punishments for a reason.

I also challenge the fact giving them a big consequence for cheating is bad for them. As a little weasel myself so of the strongest teaching moments in my formative years was losing something big because I took a shortcut. You have a chance to fast track some kids into adults instantly. You'll be helping them, not harming them.

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I was never caught cheating

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SantaRPidgey posted...

I mean there are times when authoratian is an appropriate response.

"libertarian" santarpg


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You spent like a half decade in dwmf topics so I know you know me being chill with a private institution having rules that are strictly followed are totally consistent with my ideology

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real talk tho

what sport are they student athletes for, how much revenue does it bring in for your school, and how good are they at that sport

consider this, part-time instructor

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SantaRPidgey posted...

Certain crimes have strict punishments for a reason.

All punishments are determined by a subjective judge and jury for a reason too. You can't take one without the other.

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