Board 8 > Iceman Ranks Every Tales Series Party Member w/Writeups & Prediction Prizes

(+) Yeah! (+)

Symphonia just kind of has too many characters in general, I think. It's not really possible to give them all the room to breathe they need with a cast that big. That's why there weren't many Symphonia reps around the middle of the list - it's really obvious by the end of the game which ones really matter and which ones really don't.

Anyway, here's a pup.

#30 - Repede (Vesperia)
"Woof!"

Pretty comfortably the hardest character to rank on this entire list. I freaking love Repede. Im an animal lover through and through. I always enjoy the concept of having an animal of some kind as a full party member in RPGs, and Tales did it right with this one. Awesome design, fun to play, fills a nice role, and above all, he protects Vesperia from the pitfall other games in the series have stumbled into of having an exceedingly annoying and/or pointless mascot character.

But, like hes a dog. Theres so many well-written, well-developed, complex characters in Tales that it eventually becomes difficult to justify putting a character that only speaks in barks and whines ahead of them, especially at this point where were really starting to climb into the high tiers with the heavy hitters.

I dont want to undersell Repede, though. Its not like he doesnt have a defined personality or even a little development along the way. He has a sense of humor that Id describe as lightly malicious, for example - he wont ever let Estelle pet him, but he lays down immediately and lets her rest on him when she faints in the Quoi Woods at the beginning of the game, so it obviously just amuses him to watch her try so hard to win his affection. His relationship with Rita is a lot of fun too, in that theyre pretty much constantly messing with each other but actually have a strong bond deep down, to the point that their AI is actually programmed to protect one another more often than with other party members. And he gets other little moments too if you pay attention, like when he sleeps right next to Whitehorses old chair away from the rest of the party immediately following his death.

But of course, his most enduring role is that of Yuris fiercely loyal companion. Were not explicitly told very much about their friendship (again, Im not counting First Strike here), but we can certainly infer a lot, and thats just a testament to how good the writing in Vesperia can be at times. Repede has an understated but powerful part in one of the games most memorable moments, where he silently watches his master strike down Ragou in the streets of Dahngrest. Insofar as dogs can have facial expressions, his would seem to communicate that, while he can see the reason behind Yuris actions, hes worried over the effect they might have on him in the long run. And that sets the stage for later events, where he immediately leads the party straight to Yuri after the latter tries to sneak off and confront Alexei and Estelle alone. He knows that could be the point of no return that sends Yuri off the deep end, and that it would take more than just him to keep it from happening.

Even reading over this write-up, Im warring with myself again. I almost wish Id put him higher. But then I read some write-ups of the next few characters and I just go back and forth over and over. I kinda hate doing it, but Ive gotta drop him here.

TL;DR: Perfectly done animal character. Fun and actually has a little depth. But being a perfect animal character can only get you so far.

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I can't believe banking on the dog character on b8 failed me

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Even making it into the top 30 is more than enough for the best dog. I will always remember him giving Estelle his tail for high five.

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Oh hey another person who doesnt have Presea st the top of their Symphonia ranking.

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#29 - Richard Barona (Graces)
Listen, and listen well. No matter what happens, no matter how much Lambda pleads You must not Play I Spy.

Richard was another of the hardest characters on this list to rank (its just coincidence that he wound up right next to Repede) because I couldnt decide how much weight to give his role in the main story versus that of the future arc. Its a ranking of party members, so it doesnt seem entirely fair to include his time as a main antagonist as a primary factor. On the other hand, thats his role for a big portion of the story and its important for his eventual development, so itd be disingenuous to leave it out as well. But then, how much of that was actually Richard and how much was just Lambdas influence? Hes a unique case.

Hes about as enjoyable in the child arc as the others, which is to say not very enjoyable at all. He starts off just angsting about his lack of true friends and then, once Asbel defrosts him a bit, he just becomes kinda dull. Child Richard is more of a plot device than a character, since its Asbel and Sophies experiences with him in those early years that kickstart the rest of the plot.

I have precious little to say about his role in the main plot. Its insultingly obvious whats going on with him from about ten minutes after he shows up, and he hardly gets any added depth afterwards. They try to throw in that Lamdba wasnt controlling him completely and that the reason they were able to link up in the first place was their shared feelings of anger and hatred, but that happens in what is literally the last scene of the main story. I can only assume they realized with horror at the last second that they hadnt bothered to flesh out the vessel (and more visible half) of the main antagonist at all and figured they had to at least try something.

And then, in the future arc, he suddenly becomes the best character in the game. He gets some real development with his determination to atone for all the problems he caused (and the fact that hes doing such a good job that everyone in every nation loves him), his Accel mode and new lineup of artes make him an amazing caster in battle, and he starts trolling the rest of the party so hard that it puts Malik to shame. Just watch the Mask of Barona skits.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DowOPqkGlFU

And thats only a small taste of how wonderfully silly he is. Its a really fun personality contrast for a guy thats otherwise one of the more grounded cast members. Regrettably, though, we ourselves only get a small taste of that because the future arc is so brief. If Richard had been a party member for the whole game, hed likely be right up there with my absolute favorite Tales characters. Instead, the majority of his screen time is eaten up by being a miserably boring antagonist and he just cant overcome that, no matter how much it pains me to judge him so much on it. Id love to have him higher, but theres too many good characters left that dont have his baggage.

TL;DR: The guy who wouldve otherwise been the games best character was the main villain for a lot of the story, which ended up kind of hamstringing both roles.

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Future Arc Richard is so damn good, he even manages to out-troll the game's resident troll!

https://youtu.be/dO1aCgWyF2c

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NBIceman posted...

On the other hand, thats his role for a big portion of the story and its important for his eventual development, so itd be disingenuous to leave it out as well.

Well you do have a number of cases in the series where this happens. Sheena was an antagonist for most of part 1 (unless you recruit her after her first boss battle) in symphonia and the reverse happens with Kratos switching to become an antagonist after. Shirley was one though she was only an antagonist during part 2 but that's 1/3rd of the game. Malik was an antagonist during part 1 of graces after the knight exams. Moses for a time from legendia as well but significantly shorter than all the others sans regal. Probably some others I am missing.

Richard was easily one of my favorites to play as in graces. Unlike the other mages he had some sweet spells like his wind fangs one (which was the only good spell they carried over into zestiria though they nerfed it a little) on top of being a tradition tales swordsman artes wise. Hubert edges him out though because of being a combo maniac and having combo ma's he can exploit.

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I guess, but none of those examples are the main antagonist, unless you want to make an argument for Shirley being one. The circumstances feel different enough to me that it seems a little hard to make those comparisons.

#28 - Farah Oersted (Eternia)
I may have been waiting for a day like this to come for a long time. It makes me happy to think that I just might save the lives of people around the world. And It makes me feel at ease.

Its kind of tough to find negative things to say about Farah. Shes very similar to castmate Reid in that her strength is in her directness. She has a pretty straightforward backstory that leads to easily understandable motivations.

Those uncomplicated premises, though, end up creating a pretty subtle but very interesting interplay between the two. Reid is more than content to live the plainest life humanly possible, even then only up to the point that things come directly to him. Farahs pursued purpose isnt any more complex, but she constantly works at it. She really just wants to help people, and shes so earnest about it that it becomes infectious, even to Reid by the end of the game, and theyre able to (somewhat awkwardly, in an endearing sort of way) find a happy medium in their respective views of the world.

It also helps that her savior syndrome is kind of parceled out in layers. In the beginning, she comes off like someone who more or less just enjoys the pure adventure feel of the journey despite the seriousness of the situation. She seems to really like the idea of being a hero, and more specifically being recognized as a hero, but in a way thats more innocent than narcissistic. Ras is the first one to recognize that her do-gooding likely comes from some great former wound, which at the time seems like a setup for an eventual eye-rolling bout of angst, especially when you take into account how common that is in later Tales offerings. Luckily, we arent made to suffer through anything like that. Her big confrontation with her past really just consists of Reid and Keele absolving her of her guilt, and it ends up being a nice reaffirmation of their friendship instead of the unnecessarily drama-laden whining that it seemed like we were headed towards. Plus, its probably worth mentioning that its essentially her influence that inspires Ras to switch sides, which was no small feat in that universe.

Its a shame Bruiser has the distinction of being the first fist fighter in the series. Farah deserves it so much more. But at least shes the first fun fist fighter in the series. Her style feels almost kung fu-inspired in some ways, giving her a unique flair. Her only real weakness is visual. The dress doesnt really seem to suit her and, color-wise, its just a little bit of an eyesore. The hair is really nice, though, and it saves the design from being outright bad. Its just less good than other things about the character.

TL;DR: Farahs placement near the top of this tier is a nice indicator of whats to come. Shes extremely likable and well-designed, contributes in a big way to the party dynamic, and strictly speaking, doesnt really have any recognizable flaws. That makes her a very good character. It doesnt quite make her special. And as we climb ever closer toward the upper 25% of this list, youve gotta bring that special hook.

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I didn't find her likable all that much due to her busybody nature that gets the party into more trouble more often than not. She was for a lack of a better word intense during part 1 though they gradually toned her down as the game went thankfully. It wasn't that great a counter point to the semi lazy protagonist Reid either. As for her backstory she released the ancient evil that killed a shit ton of people iirc so her feeling bad is kinda deserved and a lesson to take with her for the rest of her life. Though her trying to over compensate for it wasn't a better solution.

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Tales of Eternia Wrap-Up
I think I now comprehend what it means to place hope in someone else.

Even though Destiny still has Rutee hanging around and thus hasnt been eliminated yet, I think Eternia has the slightly stronger cast overall, which in turn earns it the distinction of being the best of the three games that make up what I think of as the early era of Tales. Like the other two, its held back to a certain extent by multiple party members being impermanent and underdeveloped, but that group holds superiority over the equivalent characters in the other games by being especially awesome in their limited time (well, two of them, anyway).

Three-quarters of the main cast are super solid, too, buoyed by Eternias increased willingness to take moments to step back from the plot and let their relationships with each other breathe a little bit. Its not often particularly thought-provoking or anything, but theyre well-written enough that its generally a pleasant experience to just watch them talk for a little while. We even finally get hints of the humor that would later come to be so prevalent in the series.

In short, Eternia is a good but unremarkable JRPG, and its cast suits that perfectly.

And they were never heard from again...

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With the confirmation that the PS5 isn't gonna play PS3 games, I finally buckled down and order a PS3, Xillia, and Xillia 2. Also have a physical copy of Eternia I've never touched, hopefully I can get into that.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Also have a physical copy of Eternia I've never touched, hopefully I can get into that.

I hope you checked first to make sure it doesn't have the volt or efreet glitches if its the psp version. if its the ps1 version it's worth a bit of money so I'm surprised you didn't sell it.

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

With the confirmation that the PS5 isn't gonna play PS3 games, I finally buckled down and order a PS3, Xillia, and Xillia 2. Also have a physical copy of Eternia I've never touched, hopefully I can get into that.

Xillia and X2 are two very interesting and very different games despite how connected they are. And Eternia definitely holds up the best among the early Tales games. Sounds like you've got a lot of Tales ahead of you.

Last one for the night and for the tier.

#27 - Eizen (Berseria)
Theres nothing I hate more than someone else trying to control the direction of my life. My wheel is mine to hold. If Im not the one steering the ship, then Im not truly alive.

Im gonna do something I rarely do on this list and start by talking about the visuals here. Eizen is a contender for my favorite design in the series. He probably doesnt beat Ludger, but hes up there. It stops just short of being too tryhard and manages to stay amazing. Its an awesome combination of pirate and reaper in concept, and its just pleasing to look at besides. Berseria is really rough costume-wise, so he stands out even more. Enough about the style, though. Lets get to the substance.

Like his castmate and bash brother Rokurou, Eizen isnt a super complex character. Even Rokurou has a bit of a personal journey to go on, though, where Eizen is a fully-formed character from the very beginning. That never feels boring, though, because youre constantly learning little things about him as the game goes on as he gets more comfortable around the party and starts to show his personality more. And its not that hes even necessarily closed off in the beginning so much as hes become so used to quickly losing comrades to his curse that he probably just doesnt bother to get too attached to many of them. Its clear he appreciates them just sticking around as much as anything.

He brings a consistent humanist aspect to the game that becomes a big focal point for the whole story toward the end. His whole coin-flipping habit feels kind of symbolic, like no matter how much he understands the reality of his curse, he believes so strongly in creating his own destiny that some tiny part of him still thinks the next flip might turn up heads. And by the endgame, he simply tells the party that when it does come up tails, they just have to flip it over for him. At the same time, theres a real pervasive poignancy to his story for those whove played Zestiria and know his eventual fate no matter how much he insists hes accepted it.

Side note: I really appreciate the amount of effort the writers put into explaining the curses reach and even using it as a meta-explanation for his learning how to fight bare-handed because weapons just break when he swings them. If only hed taught himself some cooler Mystic Artes while he was at it - his are really lame.

Eizen just has a knack for making small positive contributions to every scene hes involved in, as odd as it is for someone called the Reaper. He does a ton for Berserias worldbuilding by expositing about the many things hes seen in his 1000 years. On the rare occasion he feels the need to deliver a speech before he kicks someones ass, he knocks it out of the park. Hes the focus of some of the funniest skits in the game where he dorks out about underground island tunnels and argues with Rokurou over beetle species, or when he flies off the handle (voice-crack and all) when Magilou insinuates Edna has a boyfriend (and speaking of which, he has a way of speaking about her that makes her way more likable than she ever was in Zesty proper). Berseria is one of the best Tales games at really immersing the player in its universe (and depending on where you come out on the annoyance of Abysss technobabble, it might be the best), and Eizens a huge part of that.

Not for nothing, but I wonder how he would react to Abysss world

TL;DR: Incredibly well-rounded character. He can bring the worldbuilding, he can bring the humor, and when he needs to, he can even bring the emotion. Eizens the rare party member on this list that climbed up pretty high by managing to mix together a lot of likable individual traits into a complete and enjoyable package.

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What could this mean for the tournament?! ...Oh screw this. I'm outta here!
27. Eizen (Berseria)
28. Farah Oersted (Eternia)
29. Richard Barona (Graces)
30. Repede (Vesperia)
31. Presea Combatir (Symphonia)
32. Reid Hershel (Eternia)
33. Chester Burklight (Phantasia)
34. Stahn Aileron (Destiny)
35. Gaius (Xillia)
36. Muzet (Xillia)

Ive traveled back in time from next week. Please stop throwing monsters at us.
37. Estellise Sidos Heurassein (Vesperia)
38. Alisha Diphda (Zestiria)
39. Rokurou Rangetsu (Berseria)
40. Will Raynard (Legendia)
41. Keele Zeibel (Eternia)
42. Zaveid (Zestiria)
43. Garr Kelvin (Destiny)
44. Kor Meteor (Hearts)
45. Judith (Vesperia)
46. Ludger Kresnik (Xillia)
47. Mary Argent (Destiny)
48. Leia Rolando (Xillia)
49. Claus F. Lester (Phantasia)
50. Flynn Scifo (Vesperia)
51. Anise Tatlin (Abyss)
52. Kratos Aurion (Symphonia)
53. Ines Lorenzen (Hearts)

"You're weak! You're a hack! You're wack."
54. Senel Coolidge (Legendia)
55. Rassius Luine (Eternia)
56. Max (Eternia)
57. Norma Beatty (Legendia)
58. Chloe Valens (Legendia)
59. Hubert Oswell (Graces)
60. Karyl Sheeden (Destiny)
61. Arche Klein (Phantasia)
62. Gall Gruner (Hearts)
63. Karol Capel (Vesperia)
64. Asbel Lhant (Graces)
65. Edna (Zestiria)
66. Fractured Milla (Xillia)

"No, no, no! Horrible! Terrible! Contrived! What kind of shoddy performance is this? Youre an eyesore! Get out of my sight!
67. Regal Bryant (Symphonia)
68. Kohaku Hearts (Hearts)
69. Cress Albane (Phantasia)
70. Elize Lutus (Xillia)
71. Cheria Barnes (Graces)
72. Lailah (Zestiria)
73. Kunzite (Hearts)
74. Philia Felice (Destiny)
75. Genis Sage (Symphonia)
76. Meredy (Eternia)
77. Mint Adenade (Phantasia)
78. Moses Sandor (Legendia)
79. Dezel (Zestiria)
80. Colette Brunel (Symphonia)
81. Hisui Hearts (Hearts)

The reaper and a daemon are shaking their heads at this overwrought monstrosity. Intrinsic worth, zero."
82. Chat (Eternia)
83. Grune (Legendia)
84. Mikleo (Zestiria)
85. Chelsea Torn (Destiny)
86. Patty Fleur (Vesperia)
87. Sorey (Zestiria)
88. Leon Magnus (Destiny)
89. Bruiser Khang (Destiny)
90. Emil Castagnier (Symphonia)
91. Jay (Legendia)
92. Suzu Fujibayashi (Phantasia)
93. Marta Lualdi (Symphonia)
94. Rose (Zestiria)
95. Shirley Fennes (Legendia)

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NBIceman posted...

Hes the focus of some of the funniest skits in the game where he dorks out about underground island tunnels

best skit hands down

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If nothing else gameplay wise Eizen is the go to for new players and it shows with how popular he was to use. Ironic that the femc was supposed to be that way but isn't anywhere close to easy to use as Eizen. Its very much like Luke and Guy where Luke is clunky garbage outside the handful of regular artes returning from previous games while guy is the traditional tales swordsman. Abyss is one of the games where I took the mc out of the party since he's not very useful other than his bulkier defense than guys and his self healing arte.

Eizens under ground chain arte is tops hands down one of the best in the series and borderline broken due to its high stun rate and fast usage. But when combined with his burst artes that activate when an enemy is stunned it's the bees knees.

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shadowysea07 posted...

If nothing else gameplay wise Eizen is the go to for new players and it shows with how popular he was to use. Ironic that the femc was supposed to be that way but isn't anywhere close to easy to use as Eizen.

Velvet is one of the easiest Tales MCs to use and borderline breaks her own game, what lol
(Though I guess I'll grant you that of the non-DEVOURing members of the Berseria party, Eizen is indeed the easiest to use to his full potential)

NBIceman posted...

Eizen is a contender for my favorite design in the series. He probably doesnt beat Ludger, but hes up there.

Impeccable taste detected! I'm a little sad to see Eizen out already but your write up nailed most of what I love so much about him. He's really the full package - fantastic design, excellent character, crazy fun to play.

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I'd say Eleanor is a bit easier than Eizen, but yeah Velvet is so busted

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Xiahou Shake posted...

Velvet is one of the easiest Tales MCs to use and borderline breaks her own game, what lol

I didn't find her easy to use in the slightest thanks to her incredibly awkward combos with many whiffing the air. Devour is interesting but not easy to use or as easy to use as eizens burst artes.

BK_Sheikah00 posted...

I'd say Eleanor is a bit easier than Eizen

She has some good arte combos and spells but I gotta disagree that she's easier to use.

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Velvet is EASY MODO, I could never get the hand of using Eizen even though I wanted to.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Velvet is EASY MODO, I could never get the hand of using Eizen even though I wanted to.

Different strokes then but if you couldn't get the hang of eizen I don't know what you were doing wrong. Use arte, arte stuns enemy, activate burst arte chain repeat. It was as easy to use hubert in graces with use arte then use ma via combo count activation.

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I never get the hang of any mixed physical magic users in Tales games, even though they're the ones I want to play the most. Eizen was certainly the easiest of those. When I do my 4th Berseria playthrough, I'm gonna try switching it up more.

shadowysea07 posted...

Different strokes then but if you couldn't get the hang of eizen I don't know what you were doing wrong. Use arte, arte stuns enemy, activate burst arte chain repeat. It was as easy to use hubert in graces with use arte then use ma via combo count activation.

Use Arte, doesn't stun, use arte, doesn't stun, etc. That's early game Eizen. That's the trouble. He's the only one that cannot freely extened his combo with Break Soul.

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BK_Sheikah00 posted...

Use Arte, doesn't stun, use arte, doesn't stun, etc.

Maybe I had better luck or better choice of artes but he reliably stunned for me. Maybe early game it was less reliable. May have also had to do with your set up vs mine. Either way he doesn't have to stun the enemy to activate his burst arte so as long as someone stunned it he's good to go.

BK_Sheikah00 posted...

He's the only one that cannot freely extend his combo with Break Soul.

I don't think any of them could do that. But It was pretty easy to just keep burst arteing an enemy to death since his burst artes tended to stun enemies.

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Question: I got halfway through Jude's campaign last time, that save is obviously gone. Should I play Millia's instead?

Millas side is missing a portion of the story from judes side and offers 2 dungeons/bosses exclusive to her route but other than that they are copy pasted for the most part. Generally though it is advised to play his route over hers. You also can't buy any items at the start of hers iirc while you can in Judes.

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I mained Eizen in my playthrough after I met him initially, really love that guy and he's fun to play too.

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Dungeon wise I forgot she had the lava tube dungeon for her route. You can still enter it in judes but there won't be the boss there. I can't recall why I went into it off hand. Possibly for a devils arm boss or something.

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Nice list

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Next tier will start tomorrow, but here's a Skit to hold y'all over until then.

Skit - Top 10 Antagonists
This was actually kind of a tough one to put together. As well as Tales does playable characters, a lot of the antagonists are fairly unremarkable outside of a few tremendous standouts. But there's definitely quite a few that either amuse me consistently or that I really look forward to taking down, so here's their time to shine.

10. Chlorseraph (Hearts)
Theres nothing particularly special about Chlorseraph; hes just a really well-executed minor villain. Hes a serious threat and does some damage, but it always feels like he can be overcome. I enjoy how nuts he is, his design is fairly cool, he has a bit of depth in being the only mechanoid thats actually afraid of dying, and his somewhat inadvertent role in the final downfall of Incarose was a fun twist I didnt see coming.

9. Grand Maestro Mohs (Abyss)
Its kinda funny to consider how Ions faction in Abyss, which is trying to stop a war, would be considered the radical side in the Order of Lorelei where Mohs and his cohorts are the traditionalists. The Score is an awesome storytelling device that Ill have more to say on in some character writeups, so I dont want to get too into it here, but Mohs is a really vital part of fleshing that all out, and his being such a slimy asshole through it all makes it really satisfying to take him down later on, even if its almost pitiable that he truly cant comprehend that the Score wont lead to prosperity as he believes.

8. Kurt Bessel (Graces)
Kurts primarily on this list because of how fondly I remember his boss battle. Its so dang tough, especially on higher difficulties, that it really forces you to get good at the amazing Graces battle system. I distinctly remember having much more fun with the game on my first playthrough after fighting Kurt, because I finally got it. Hes got a cool design and weapon to back it up, too, and he ends up being one of the only Graces antagonists that leaves any kind of impact.

7. Dhaos (Phantasia)
Besides the fact that everything about him is just plain pretty damn cool, Dhaos is arguably the deepest antagonist in the series. Hed be much higher up on this list if any of that actually came across through playing Phantasia itself.

6. Agria (Xillia)
Agrias the fun kind of unhinged. Kate Higgins clearly had a lot of fun in this role, and it makes things super entertaining whenever shes onscreen. Her backstorys interesting, her mannerisms are delightfully creepy, and her proverbial flipping of the bird to Leia as she falls to her death was a pretty memorably creative way for a villain to get one over on her enemy. The Fractured Dimension in Xillia 2 where she actually let Leia save her and they grew to be pretty close gives her some nice depth, too.

5. Forcystus (Symphonia)
Cool design aside, Ive always enjoyed the shade of grey that Forcystus occupies in comparison to a lot of the Symphonia villains. They actually pay some lip service to the fact that, as much as hes a plague in the eyes of humans, hes a hero to half-elves, which plays into the theme of the game pretty well. And its always interesting how, even though he tortures the people at his ranch, hes the only Grand Cardinal who isnt actively trying to ruin the lives in the nearby village on a daily basis. I wish hed been developed a little more, but theres a lot of interesting things about him.

4. Van Grants (Abyss)
Tales sometimes has a really bad problem with the main antagonists plan not making a whole lot of sense. I love how Abyss went straight at that problem with Vans discussion with the party before the final battle. He puts up a good argument, but they pretty much tear his ideals to shreds by the end, and he more or less has to eventually acknowledge the possibility that everything hes doing ultimately amounts to nothing. But he sticks by it anyway because thats the path hes chosen. Its a really cool examination of the entire theme of the game, and with the final battle itself being one of the most memorable in the series, he really leaves a lasting impression.

3. Shigure Rangetsu (Berseria)
Hes a cat person, so he gets some easy points there. Hes also probably the most badass antagonist in the series all things considered. His dynamic with Rokurou is fun, the elements of his backstory that we get reveal him as a richer character than one would think at first glance, and his role in the story, though somewhat small, is a pretty cool one considering hes the only person thats more or less neutral in a conflict thats more clearly between two opposing sides than most Tales games.

2. Yeager (Vesperia)
They really got the perfect amount of mystery with this guy. We know just enough about his backstory, the way he runs his guild, his general demeanor, and his relationship with Gauche and Droite and their orphanage to develop some real interesting theories about the full picture of the man he was without ever being able to know for sure. Past that, hes entertaining every second hes onscreen, has an awesome weapon, and his fight is pretty memorable (even if thats partly because his secret mission is so damn frustrating).

1. Sync the Tempest (Abyss)
Its kind of incredible just how much of a bastard this guy is, and also how its kind of understandable by the end. All of the important replicas in Abyss bring a different perspective to the whole idea of what life really is, and his all-encompassing hatred for the universe and everything in it, himself included, is really compelling. Impersonating Ions voice to Anise after Ion dies may be the cruelest thing anyone ever did in Tales, which is no small feat. It just feels good to hate this guy. And he backs it up by being a really fun enemy, too, with a couple of pretty awesome Mystic Artes.

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I remember teenage me came up with this absolutely crazy byzantine theory around The Score and Van's objective. It's been over a decade so I forget all the details but it was something like Van was intentionally trying to lose to Luke and Tear in order to avert the Score and decided to hijack The Score's prophecy to become the foretold villain and made sure his actions caused it to come about on his terms so he could ultimately end up with it overturned. I think last time I really thought about it I concluded kid me was insane and it wasn't nearly as convoluted as I had imagined and it was far more straight-forward than all that but man... Tales of the Abyss might have been my first foray into delving deep into the world-building and mythos of a game/franchise and going absolutely nuts with theories and interpretations.

a passion that has, for better or worse, remained with me to this day

I will always have a soft spot for Abyss and will defend it always.

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I am confident a remade Abyss with all the modern bells and whisked would be the best RPG every made.

My biggest beef with Abyss is how Akzeriuth was handled.

• The writers made Luke more of an asshole before it happened to make us not like him as much
• The other party members won't shut up about it for several hours after it.
• Luke changes too much too quickly
• Even near the end of the game you still have Guy saying things like "You've done some terrible things but I'll still stand beside you even if the rest of the world hates you", and Guy is supposed to be one of the first people to forgive Luke

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NBIceman posted...

. I love how Abyss went straight at that problem

Actually his plans make zero sense because of the people writing parts one two and three with obviously little to no communication. Part one runs completely opposite of the rest of the plan since if they destroyed the world there's no way to clone people, build the final dungeon, isle of feres would have been destroyed again. .

it was a complete cluster fuck.

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Wasn't literally everything up until Luke and co defeating Van in the final battle predestined by the Score? I thought a big part of things what that Van had more knowledge than everyone else because he was able to read a part of Yulia's Score that no one else had, with the implication that it largely covered the events of the game. It's been so long that I forget if this was the Score fragment that Ion died reading or if it was a different piece that happened to reside at Van and Tear's childhood home. All this to say that Van knew perfectly well the plan to drop the outer lands into the Qlipoth would fail but it was part of the Score and had to happen because even he's not immune to The Score since he's not a replica/he could use that fact to maintain control over Mohs's traditional faction well past the point where even Yulia City had nope'd out.

argh been over a decade since i played abyss so my memory is all foggy

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Release Abyss digitally for PS4 plz. Why is Rogue Galaxy on this thing and not a single older Tales game?

xp1337 posted...

Wasn't literally everything up until Luke and co defeating Van in the final battle predestined by the Score? I thought a big part of things what that Van had more knowledge than everyone else because he was able to read a part of Yulia's Score that no one else had, with the implication that it largely covered the events of the game. It's been so long that I forget if this was the Score fragment that Ion died reading or if it was a different piece that happened to reside at Van and Tear's childhood home. All this to say that Van knew perfectly well the plan to drop the outer lands into the Qlipoth would fail but it was part of the Score and had to happen because even he's not immune to The Score since he's not a replica/he could use that fact to maintain control over Mohs's traditional faction well past the point where even Yulia City had nope'd out.

argh been over a decade since i played abyss so my memory is all foggy

By some interpretations, the Score could be considered to still be on track even by the very end of the game due to the ambiguity of the language used in it. That's what makes it so fascinating.

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NBIceman posted...

7. Dhaos (Phantasia)
Besides the fact that everything about him is just plain pretty damn cool, Dhaos is arguably the deepest antagonist in the series. Hed be much higher up on this list if any of that actually came across through playing Phantasia itself.

I'm glad Dhaos got some recognition.

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NBIceman posted...

By some interpretations, the Score could be considered to still be on track even by the very end of the game due to the ambiguity of the language used in it. That's what makes it so fascinating.

I thought that when Luke releases Lorelei that Lorelei explicitly states that Luke overturned the Score. And I mean... Lorelei basically is the Score. Trying to fit his actions into what Yulia's Score said seems like a reach when you have the word straight from the source.

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The score is vague about some stuff (which is odd when people used it to tell them what to have for breakfast) but anywho the score was still being followed during part two. But villain is gone during that portion. The problem is if the villain planned for part one then they shouldn't have been collecting DNA in part three and would be missing all the people in parts one and two who died which is a significant amount.

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xp1337 posted...

I thought that when Luke releases Lorelei that Lorelei explicitly states that Luke overturned the Score. And I mean... Lorelei basically is the Score. Trying to fit his actions into what Yulia's Score said seems like a reach when you have the word straight from the source.

I don't remember all the details - it's been a good while since I read the theory I'm thinking of and I've got 10+ Tales stories in my head since the last time I played Abyss besides - but what Lorelei says is that the future has been rewritten. The gist of the theory was that "rewritten" may not have meant that the future was technically "changed," just that the events that proceeded didn't do so in exactly the way that had been foreseen. The Score wasn't accurate, but it was still correct.

I'm not saying it's an interpretation I necessarily agree with, but I remember it being an interesting argument.

#26 - Rutee Katrea (Destiny)
Who needs a new world? Whats wrong with ours?

In a series chock full of polarizing characters, I feel like Rutee is one that pretty much everyone enjoys to at least some degree. Im also pretty sure shes the only JRPG character that says Jeepers! - how could you not enjoy her?

Shes just too fun and likable. A joy to have around in the party. She has instant chemistry with almost all of the other party members from the moment they show up, whether its the argumentative but vaguely flirtatious banter with Stahn, the targeted antagonizing of Leon, or the steadfast and heartwarming loyalty to Mary. Its clear that she truly values the relationships she has with people, even some of the secondary Destiny characters. She takes Baruks support of Hugo quite hard, for example - its nice that she has someone like Stahn by her side by that point. The one thing I find kind of silly is how much she starts sticking up for Leon once she learns shes his sister where before she had no problem badmouthing him (and justifiably so). It does lead to a good moment, though, where she aggressively calls out Marian for inadvertently insulting his sacrifice and then realizes she could probably go about that in a nicer way.

My favorite thing about Rutee is her utter lack of interest in the complexities of the universe. There are multiple instances where some other party member will try to start a dialogue with her with some philosophical question, only for her to respond with an apathetic, I dunno. Her opinions of the world and the people in it are pretty neutral. Shes a woman of action, not of abstract thought. She knows the world isnt perfect, but shes not going to endlessly wring her hands worrying about it. Its not that she isnt smart enough to comprehend those big questions, she just legitimately doesnt understand why she should care.

Shes neck and neck with Garr for my favorite Destiny design. Shes very attractive without being egregiously oversexualized. Yeah, the outfit is revealing, but it doesnt quite cross the line into being gratuitous and stupid. A thief/treasure hunter would obviously want a lot of freedom of movement, so it at least makes sense from that perspective. I usually dont even like short hair on women, but she pulls it off well. Im not in love with her as a fighter, mostly because the nature of the game lends itself to sword fatigue and she doesnt have the flash of some of the others, but shes pretty much necessary because of her healing and Atwight at least has the coolest look of the Swordians (and by the way, her casually talking about putting him into storage midway through the game is hilarious).

And honestly, I think Im a bit of a sucker for characters with a strong connection to orphanages. I dont know why that is, though, because I cant stand kids. Maybe I just identify with the sense of feeling connected to a physical place? I dont know, no one came to this list to watch me psychoanalyze myself. I guess I just think its sweet how important it is for her to support the orphanage the way she does. Its maybe not the most unique motivation, but its sweet.

TL;DR: Popular for a reason. Rutees the kind of character that just makes a habit of putting a smile on a players face, be it through feel-good moments or legitimate humor. Her direct approach to life and mouthy attitude are super endearing, and (though it doesnt affect her placement on this list), it gives me a nice warm feeling to know that she settled into a good, happy life by the time Destiny 2 rolls around.

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Tales of Destiny Wrap-Up
Swordsman! You are not worthy to wield such a thing!

The massacre of one-third of this games cast in the bottom tier is regrettable, but the Swordian Masters and Friends still managed to outlast Legendia and Zestiria, both of which had much the same miserable experience, not to mention Phantasia and Eternia. Like with Phantasia, the unfortunate reality of Destinys cast is that a lot of them just dont give you much to work with, because the plot is completely unremarkable, the combat is dull, and there arent many sidequests for developing characters beyond the surface level. And with nine total characters, the main plot certainly doesnt have time for all of them. Furthermore, you can only have a maximum of six at any one time, which means only two of the four optional late game members can come along for the ride. So the highest finishers are essentially the characters who are able to make their simplicity into a strength rather than an anchor.

I guess its hard to say that I like a cast when only none of its characters even managed to quite scrape into the top 25% of this list and one-third of them are sitting in the trash heap, but I at least appreciate that, all things considered, it was an improvement on Phantasia. If nothing else, it peaks higher. Namco still hadnt quite figured out how to make their characters deep and complex yet, but they took a giant step in the right direction of making them enjoyable and at least showed that they were capable of it.

And they were never heard from again...

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#25 - Milla Maxwell (Xillia)
"I just find it amusing that you humans have a knack for seeing others more clearly than yourselves."

Milla might be one of the most polarizing characters in all of Tales, which is... saying something. Her fans think of her as an immensely likable character that accomplishes exactly what she was intended to as an RPG protagonist. Her detractors say shes really just a Mary Sue with very little in the way of actual personality. During the preliminary ranking and the beginning of her write-up, I leaned more to the latter side, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized that label, while not entirely unfair, kind of undersells her.

Lets just get this out of the way immediately: Milla is very attractive. If theres anything to complain about with her design, its that she maybe shows a little too much skin, but they even make an effort to explain that away in a skit. Otherwise, everything about her design gets a wholehearted two-thumbs-up from me, which wins her a lot of goodwill right off the bat.

Past that, she definitely has her problems. As I mentioned with Ludger, it gets tiring hearing every character in the game heap praise on her. Its not even just the playable cast, either. Supporting characters, the villains, and even some damn Wyverns marvel at her glory. Its the kind of thing thats annoying even for characters who feel like theyve earned it, but it rears its head long before Milla ever does. Then theres the fact that she becomes quite proficient with both the sword and magic with minimal practice after she loses access to the Four Great Spirits, which wouldve made sense if she was, in fact, Maxwell, but once its discovered that shes really just a regular human, that kind of stuff becomes more ridiculous. Throw in the fact that shes very stiff with her dialogue and overall demeanor most of the time (even if her lack of social skills and general misunderstanding of human experiences make for some funny moments), and you dont seem to have the makings of a great character.

In many ways, though, she goes through some great development. She begins with nothing but a mission that was given to her, to destroy Exodus and the spyrix they create, thereby saving humans and spirits alike. Shes determined to complete that mission, and shell put it above the safety of her companions without a second thought if shes forced into such a choice. But over time, as she starts to develop real personal relationships, she comes to understand that a god saving all of humanity is meaningless if she doesnt also try to save people in more immediate danger, whether it's a distraction from her mission or not, and she changes the constraints of that mission to include alternate avenues of solving the spyrix problem. She changes it to a mission she pursues because of her own beliefs and feelings instead of one that she follows simply because it was what was given to her. Its a nicely paced journey from beginning to end that concludes in a satisfactory way. Hard for me to complain much about that. She feels good to play as, too. Shes not nearly as broken as Jude or anything, but she feels very smooth and I like her Artes lineup a lot. Getting to use the Four Great Spirits as essentially regular attacks is a cool novelty, too.

Milla might be the cast member with the least to mention when it comes to Xillia 2 since her character arc was pretty much completed at the first games end, but theres still a few points to make. Her voice acting is much improved and her dorky traits are played up a lot more in skits, which makes her a lot more pleasant and enjoyable for the idle parts of the game. More importantly, her relationship with Jude also gets a little more focus in some of the later character episodes. I know that a lot of people, even if they like Milla, dislike this pairing, but I would comfortably list it as one of the more well-done romances in the series. She remarks early on, with a smile on her face, that Hes just so human, which is completely true, and with her fondness for humans its no wonder that she develops so much admiration for him. The Xillia games do a good job of making it clear that there are mutual feelings without shoving it in players faces at every turn, and its one of the driving forces behind much of her development. Her decision to become the new Maxwell at X1s end is driven in part by her desire to live up to the expectations he sets for her. It helps both of them grow, which again, is all you can really ask for out of a romance, and it comes to a rather beautiful bittersweet conclusion when Milla, for all of her lack of understanding about humans, wordlessly steps out of Judes sight when she has to return to the spirit realm, realizing that he wouldnt want to have to watch her leave for a third time.

So, while I certainly understand where her haters are coming from, I like Milla quite a bit. She has some issues that keep her from being a top-tier Tales character, but overall, the virtues outweigh the flaws.

TL;DR: The exaggerated focus on Milla kind of sets her up for failure as a protagonist, but it also gives her ample time to develop into a very solid character where the problems dont matter as much.

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Now that I'm mere days away from actually playing through this start to finish, I must avoid that writeup <_<

#24 - Rowen Ilbert (Xillia)
"Over the course of my career, I took the lives of thousands of soldiers. When you consider each soldier's potential, what I did was little different than destroying a world. I am well aware of my sins. But, at the same time, I also believe this: The destruction I wrought paved the way for new things to be born."

Rowens just a cool dude. He wins some points immediately by being the only old man party member in the series thats ACTUALLY a legitimately old man, and Im almost always a fan of the old retired military guy whos content to just live a quiet life but can still kick ass when needed trope.

Hes a great example of how to portray a character that everyone in-universe knows is amazing and frequently acknowledges is amazing without driving the player crazy with it, which is somewhat funny considering two of his Xillia castmates (including the one that just got eliminated) dont toe that line especially well. Were shown just enough of his feats and prowess that it balances out the ones were simply told about, and even those are much easier to accept because hes the kind of accomplished military commander that real history books are full of. And the other characters dont go overboard with it, either. Jude, for example, considers it a great honor to fight beside him, but he doesnt fall all over himself how awed he is at every turn like he does with certain others. It probably helps that Rowens much more easygoing and willing to poke fun of himself, which makes him feel genuine.

Unfortunately, all of that greatness doesnt translate to the actual gameplay. The biggest thing holding Rowen back is that he kind of sucks in battle. Hes a glass cannon mage, which is certainly a staple of RPGs and not inherently a bad thing, but generally, one of the most prevalent strengths of those characters is their ability to hit for elemental weaknesses. Thing is, every character in the Xillia games can deal elemental damage with ease, and making full use of the games Linking system really necessitates that characters are at least somewhat capable of fighting on the front lines at times. The marginal increase in damage per second you might get from his spells doesnt make up for the fact that you more or less have to baby him in fights a lot of the time. And that unfortunately sours me on the guy. I like having dedicated offensive casters in my RPG parties, but I dont like to control them, and you have to play as Rowen to make him effective. Otherwise, his benefits dont outweigh his costs.

Also, after the Nachtigal part of Xillia 1s story ends, Rowen kind of falls completely out of the plot. Almost all of his development afterwards takes place in sub-events and a couple of his character episodes in X2. Dont get me wrong, its solid development, which does help. I particularly like the one which shows that he really couldve kept Nachtigal from losing his way if hed stayed in the military - its interesting to see an instance where a character blames themselves for someone elses life going off track and is actually proven right.

Take those issues away, and Rowen is just a good, well-rounded character. He knows when he needs to be the wise, world-weary counselor of the party and when he can be the uber-troll. Hes an honorable man who has his share of regrets but doesnt let them stop him from appreciating what he has now and from dedicating himself to new purposes when they arise. I love the guy, and the fact that hes not even higher on the list really speaks to the strength of those above him more than anything.

TL;DR: Tremendously likable character held back by relative uselessness as a fighter and being mostly irrelevant to the plot of both games.

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NBIceman posted...

He knows when he needs to be the wise, world-weary counselor of the party and when he can be the uber-troll.

https://youtu.be/Edb315ghJCo

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NBIceman posted...

Thing is, every character in the Xillia games can deal elemental damage with ease

Not really. Each character only had access to a handful of elements. Elize being the worst with dark only access iirc. Oh she has wind and earth via 1 arte each but given that she's a mage yeah not exactly useful/practical.

You can somewhat make up for it via the link system but that's not a good solution much like abyss altered artes system. And obviously it's completely useless when you don't have the character in the party or at all you need to access that link arte. And there are segments where this happens semi frequently.

Rowens definitely not a great mage compared to his predecessors. At most I used him during regular mob battles for tidal wave, shimmering toll and splash spam. And that was about it.

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#23 - Sophie (Graces)
It's hard to believe I was so worried for all this time. You'll never be gone, even after you die. Because your dream will live on. I have a purpose now, Asbel. I will see your dream fulfilled.

Graces was the first Tales game that I followed with any amount of dedication pre-release, and when Sophie was first unveiled, I distinctly remember being quite concerned. I dont know if it was the twintails or the watercolor aesthetic or both, but something about her felt like it belonged in Star Ocean instead of Tales. I never wouldve thought Id end up liking her as much as I did.

Sophie benefits a lot from being surrounded by a cast of characters that, to varying degrees and in varying ways, dont really come off as genuine for large parts of the game. Compared with them, the innocent and always-honest Sophie feels so refreshing.

Its odd, because shes aggressively tropey in a lot of ways. The whole living weapon thing has been done to death in every medium I could name, and giving it the form of a young, emotionless girl with a cutesy design isnt exactly any more groundbreaking. I dont like to just hate on tropes for the sole reason that theyre tropes, though, and I can forgive Sophie because she is an extremely well-done example.

Shes actually not emotionless, of course. Graces makes that clear pretty early on, and you could make the argument that shes really the most emotionally driven of the party - it just doesnt always seem that way because she has trouble identifying or understanding the emotions.

That said, shes not particularly interesting in the child arc. Once she returns in the main story, though, she settles into a rhythm with the rest of the cast pretty quickly. The affection she has for them is obvious, and when combined with her overall charming personality, its easy for the player to develop the same kind of protective instinct for her that the party does. Shes just a pleasant character. Pascals insanity and Maliks trolling have their places, and I ultimately think theyre better characters, but they dont often get the genuine smiles out of me that Sophie does.

The best part about Sophie is that shes the only character that has clear, well-defined relationships with the rest of the cast. Asbel is ostensibly the protagonist, but Sophie feels more like the main character. She sets the whole plot in motion, shes the soul of the party (literally and figuratively), and shes just more relatable. She laughs, she cries, she even makes little jokes every once in a while. The inhuman character is the most human by the end of the game, to the point that she begs Pascal to find a way to make her a real human because shes so terrified of having to watch her companions eventually die. Its all pulled off very well, and it makes her the most developed character in the game by far.

Ive grown to appreciate her design for the most part, too. The ultra-long twintails made a bad first impression and veer really close to the territory of being too ridiculous, but unlike her bestest buddy Asbels costume, they manage to stay on the side of the line where I still like it. Yeah, it looks dumb in the child arc where theyre taller than the rest of the kids on their own, but when everyone grows up its just fine, and I love her little head shaking animation with them. What bugs me is that her best look is the one that only shows up in the ending after she fuses with the Little Queen, and we dont get any costumes that are similar to that. Feels like a missed opportunity.

TL;DR: A trope done right. You just wanna give her a big hug sometimes.

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Only #23? I am disappoint

Hey, top 25% ain't too bad considering how many enjoyable characters there are in this series!

#22 - Rita Mordio (Vesperia)
I dont have any family, so I dont But I kinda like, you know, how we are.

Even before I started replaying games with this ranking in mind and putting the proverbial pen to paper for it, I obviously had a rough idea of where a lot of characters would finish. Some turned out to be pleasant surprises that rose way up on the final list. Others left me scratching my head a bit and wondering what it was that made me initially think so highly of them. Rita is one of the latter category. As you can tell from her placement here, I dont mean to say shes bad, by any means. I still quite like her. But I figured shed be competing for a top ten spot, and that wouldve been quite a stretch.

The biggest point in her favor is that shes my favorite dedicated caster in the series battle-wise. I love a good mage, and everything about her just feels good. Shes got a great repertoire of spells, particularly once she starts getting altered artes thrown in, with fun incantations. Spamming some of the bigger ones in Over Limit, especially with the famous blah blah blah shortcuts that fit her character perfectly, is immensely satisfying. The expressive twirls and little dances she does while casting are some of the more enjoyable casting animations Ive seen in an RPG. And sometimes its fun to just run up and smack a giant monster over the head with a book. Ritas a mainstay in my Vesperia party - I hardly ever take her out.

Personality-wise, I think she gets too much hate from some camps and too much love from others. Her detractors really dont like the way she treats Karol and, to a lesser extent, Raven for the majority of the game, but that never bothered me much. Karol almost got her killed within an hour of their first meeting and its a long time before he starts really pulling his weight, so I dont blame her for not liking him. Plus, I get a kick out of the karate chops she gives him, probably because the exaggerated SMACK sound effect makes the whole thing so delightfully slapstick, and Ive always loved slapstick humor. And with Raven, I think its pretty well established that she actually likes him quite a bit and the abuse is just her awkward form of affection.

But its that aggressive nature that seems to be the basis for her popularity among some more passionate fans, and that doesnt seem right either. At her core (pun intended), shes a misunderstood teen genius with tsundere tendencies, and weve all seen that plenty of times if weve played JRPGs or watched anime.

Theres enough nuance thrown in there to keep her from being excessively tropey, though. Early on, when Karol teasingly needles her for being lonely, she doesnt smack him or even protest. She knows shes lonely. Shes hyper-aware, probably to a fault, that she doesnt relate to other people very well. Its nice to watch her gradually open up and find a family with the rest of the party, and I would argue that she has the best-explored relationships with the other main characters than anyone else in the game, aside from Yuri. The writers were good about throwing in reminders every once in a while that, while its easy to forget, she is still a kid, like the odd superstition she has of writing her name on gald so that itll always come back, or her massive fondness for cats, which will always endear someone to me. By the end of Vesperia, shes even able to find common ground and empathize with Zagi, of all people.

Ultimately, though, her personal arc isnt that different from most tsundere characters, so as nice as it is, the lack of uniqueness drags it down some. Looking back, I was 13 years old when Vesperia first released and I think I probably had a bit of a crush on her to have such strong memories of the character. Solid? Most definitely. One of the best in the series? No way.

TL;DR: blah blah blah TSUNDERE TEENAGE GENIUS BUT, LIKE, A PRETTY GOOD ONE

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