Board 8 > Iceman Ranks Every Tales Series Party Member w/Writeups & Prediction Prizes

(+) Yeah! (+)

Hearts is such a weird game that I actually forget it exists a lot of the time. The chasm of production value between it and the rest of the series coupled with the really rough localization and (at least for me personally) the control issues playing on Vita TV make for such an unfortunate combo. If it ever did somehow get a re-release on modern consoles with a dub and at least a somewhat polished localization I'd probably be reasonably psyched to replay it, because there is a lot of fun to be had in there underneath all the... rest.

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I just can't handle how it all looks like a modern Star Ocean game.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Man, the only Hearts character that I think doesn't look like a complete disaster of a design, and this first thing you say is you don't like her look!

It looks better in official concept art etc. than it does in the game proper, but even then, I just don't think an 18-year-old should look 12 unless it's, like, really important to their character or something.

Xiahou Shake posted...

Hearts is such a weird game that I actually forget it exists a lot of the time. The chasm of production value between it and the rest of the series coupled with the really rough localization and (at least for me personally) the control issues playing on Vita TV make for such an unfortunate combo. If it ever did somehow get a re-release on modern consoles with a dub and at least a somewhat polished localization I'd probably be reasonably psyched to replay it, because there is a lot of fun to be had in there underneath all the... rest.

I think of Hearts in much the same way I think of Symphonia with modern eyes. Perfectly solid as a total package but very, very rough in multiple ways, and it obviously doesn't have the nostalgic cache to buoy it.

Anyway, sorry for this next writeup looking more like a redacted government document than probably any other one has, but it's tough to talk about this guy without getting way into spoilers.

#9 - Raven (Vesperia)
Schwanns buried in the depths of Baction, aint he? The guy standin in front of ya is Raven, just a simple old man.

Ive been critical of some characters that lean heavily on some shtick on this ranking, so having the guy who has maybe 80% of his screen time revolving around him being a perverted old man this high up might be a bit of a head-scratcher.

But damned if that other 20% isnt just awesome.

The interplay between Ravens two identities fascinates me. He himself even seems convinced theyre legitimately two different people, which is odd because, to an objective observer, theyre not really all that dissimilar. The impressive combat prowess, the unshakable selflessness, the wry intelligence, the determination to keep moving forward even when all seems against you. All things considered, hes not even as much of a lech as he tries to pretend - hell certainly do more than his fair share of flirting, but at the end of the day, hell nudge those women who are actually interested in him in another direction.

The only real difference between the two, apart from their weapon of choice, is their attachment to life. Schwann wouldve been perfectly content to die alongside his love in the Great War, but Alexei robbed him of that chance. And then, he accidentally does him a favor. The identity of Raven starts as an assignment but quickly becomes an escape. The easygoing, charismatic, free-spirited guild member has the luxury of walking through life with a smile that the steadfast Imperial Knight never did. Don Whitehorse immediately sniffing out his true purpose and allowing him to stick around anyway is the turning point in Ravens life, which is probably why he treats the Don with a reverence beyond even Karols hero worship.

But his sense of duty keeps him tethered to Alexei, and with Whitehorses death destroying the equivalent connection to Altosk and the other guilds, whatever lease on life hed gained through his alter-ego seemingly vanishes as well. He walks into Baction after kidnapping Estelle fully intending to finally die for good, only for Brave Vesperia to pull that troublesome Raven out of him again.

Schwanns burial and Alexeis subsequent demise eliminates that tether as well, making Raven a truly free man for the first time in a long time. His sorrowful willingness to die at Yuris hands isnt the broken resignation of the death-seeking Schwann, its the regretful apology of the kindhearted Raven who simply didnt see another way out before. And when he finds his life once again spared, we finally get to see the complete picture of the man: a fiercely loyal ally who will fight with all he is in service of what he believes in, both to atone for his past mistakes and to show his gratitude to those who gave him that chance in the first place. It took the soldiers death to allow Raven to really embrace himself and become the true knight he always couldve been. Thats who he was deep down all along.

I absolutely love his design, too. The deep purple that dominates his outfit is kind of an underutilized color in Tales (and some of the characters that use it look terrible otherwise, coughJaycough) that looks super clean and sleek, giving him a casual but refined air that fits him perfectly once his double life is revealed. Hes great in combat, too - one of the better jack-of-all-trades characters in the series, even if playing as him sometimes feels like a trudge through a swamp. Love Shot in particular is a fantastic healing arte and some of his late game spells have a lot of utility. He can play several different roles in any situation, so he always ends up near the top of my usage chart in Vesperia playthroughs unless Im actively trying not to use him for the sake of variety.

This is another one of those characters I could probably talk about for a good deal longer because he has so many little moments that make him great, but thats pretty much the essence of why he ended up this high. Great character.

TL;DR: Tremendously likable character from beginning to end as the layers peel back on him more and more, and hes great for gameplay as well. The dichotomy of his two identities is one of the more interesting backstories in the series when alls said and done. The guys popular for a reason, in-universe and out.

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Xiahou Shake posted...

Hearts is such a weird game that I actually forget it exists a lot of the time. The chasm of production value between it and the rest of the series coupled with the really rough localization and (at least for me personally) the control issues playing on Vita TV make for such an unfortunate combo. If it ever did somehow get a re-release on modern consoles with a dub and at least a somewhat polished localization I'd probably be reasonably psyched to replay it, because there is a lot of fun to be had in there underneath all the... rest.

I played it on the Vita while my niece played it on the Vita tv but neither of us had any issues off hand I can recall. Unless you are talking about the touchscreen stuff that is via the r3 l3 buttons? I agree that it was a low budget game. Ironic that it was still impressive and more representative of the series than the last couple entries. You got cameo battles, wonderchef, in game costumes from sidequests and so on. I also enjoyed the gameplay and felt like it was a better advancement of vesperia than xillias was while still using the system similar to xillias for cc lite.

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Come to think of it the one thing that is missing was the undead swordsman and fell/devil's arms. Devil's arms are the one thing in xillia.

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shadowysea07 posted...

Unless you are talking about the touchscreen stuff that is via the r3 l3 buttons?

It would be precisely this. IIRC, you had to "touch" the icon of your party member to do a chase link(?). Through a Vita TV you had to toggle touch mode, move a hand cursor and register a tap, then untoggle touch mode in order to proceed. The entire process, while manageable, is just plain cumbersome.

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I never used it much so it was pretty moot to me.

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#8 - Guy Cecil (Abyss)
Well, everybody's different, but I think that clinging to life is what really makes people want to change the world. It's not wrong or right, it's just... faith.

We should all be so lucky to have a friend like Guy. Someone who knows the absolute worst side of us and has every reason to hate us and somehow stays by our side to become our most loyal and trusted companion anyway.

Guys just a good dude. Hes the first to recognize Lukes inherent goodness (really, hes the first person in Lukes life that seems to give a damn about him at all) and the first to go back for him after Akzeriuth, acknowledging that he was always friends with the replica and not the original. While thats admirable enough on its own, the subtext there is that hes seemingly the only person, not just in the party but the game as a whole, to understand immediately that Luke and Asch are two different people.

Even with nothing else, thatd be enough to land Guy a pretty high placement on the ranking, but because hes an Abyss character, hes got plenty of depth to him, too. For starters, Team Destiny shouldve taken some notes from him on how to do the I couldve ended up just like the villain thing right. Really, the majority of his development is dedicated to showing just how close he was. A noble joins the house of his most hated enemy as a servant, fully prepared to hang around as long as it took to enact his revenge, only to fall ass-backwards into a genuine friendship with the one hed sworn to kill. And its hinted from the beginning that he has a dark edge to him. When Luke asks him how many people hes killed, his response to say Who knows? and rather flippantly speculate that the number is probably lower than that of the soldier he struck down moments before. And theres plenty of other examples to show that deep down, hes really a very violent and angry person. As it turns out, though, for all his suffering, Guy just doesnt have the disposition for vengeance. Hes simply too nice. But that doesnt mean hes able to completely let go of the past, and that makes for a couple of memorable moments as the game goes on, like his taking advantage of the summit of world leaders to threaten all of their lives until he gets a straight answer about what really happened with Hod. Its another good example of the Abyss brand of development where party members dont lose entire aspects of their character forever after one big moving on scene. Thats not to say he doesnt get scenes like that, though, and for the most part theyre pulled off pretty well. I particularly like the one where he admits to being partly responsible for what eventually went down at Akzeriuth, given that he knew Van was up to no good and never said anything and that he had an unintentional hand in raising Luke to become the easily manipulated pawn that he did.

Once he breaks off his ties with Van, he eventually settles into a nice little role in the party dynamic where he more or less functions as a calming influence. He very rarely loses his cool and often comes off as the most introspective cast member, which makes sense given how much his worldview once shifted. Because of those qualities, I always felt like Guy was the most trustworthy of the Abyss cast. That is to say, if he expressed a particular point of view about something, I was inclined to believe it was true over any conflicting thoughts, because I could be sure hed spent a good bit of time thinking about it. Plus, Abyss strikes a good balance with his whole Fon Machine obsession. Its equal parts a humorous quirk and a legitimate help to the party in their adventure. (Johnny Yong Bosch is a big part of all of this, by the way. His always-great voice acting goes a long way toward making Guy feel as genuine as he does.)

I also think the gynophobia is handled in a pretty clever way. Its played entirely for laughs for the majority of the game, so you feel completely free as a player to make fun of him alongside the party. Then, when the cause is revealed, you feel every bit as bad about treating it as a joke as they do. Its an effective little tactic to help you bond with the character. Simple, but effective. More importantly, it contributes in a big way to the Tower of Rem scene which, as I think I mentioned in Tears write-up, is my favorite moment in all of Tales. And Guys really the star of that scene. When Tear loses her composure, its Guy that leaps in to physically restrain her. Its one of only two times in the game (three if you count sidequests) that hes able to touch a woman without freaking out, and he does it all while being arguably the most pissed off of anybody that Lukes doing what hes doing.

Finally, all things considered, hes probably in the top 3 or 5 of my favorite Tales character to play as in battle. I love his fighting style and I love his lineup of artes, namely Brilliant Overlord and the best version of the best recurring Tales arte in Tiger Blade.

Ill leave off the same place Abyss did: Tataroo Valley, two years after the events of the game, where hes the only one who still seems to believe deep down that Luke would be coming back someday. Why? Just because he said so. He knew his friend wouldnt go back on his word.

TL;DR: A perfect example of how to pull off a best friend character that doesnt feel like hes only there to be the best friend. He ends up being the best friend in the series anyway.

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Guy was pretty cool

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Guy stands out on the very, very small list of party members that could easily have carried a game of their own as a lead, and not just because of his gameplay.

Welp, there goes the guy (yes yes, pun) that, if you told me to choose just one across the series to name as my one true main, he's the one I'd choose. Still, top 10 is pretty respectable, especially looking at the remaining people on the list.

On the subject of "the Best Friend archetype" I always find it amusing that it's the scene where he outright decks Luke so hard that Luke hits the floor, that ends up giving Guy the Best Friend title.

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NBIceman posted...

We should all be so lucky to have a friend like Guy. Someone who knows the absolute worst side of us and has every reason to hate us and somehow stays by our side to become our most loyal and trusted companion anyway.

I mean except for the part where he planned to assassinate you as a child with van and the gardener and who knows how many other employees or how he kept vans stuff secret. So not exactly much loyalty there. Granted some of it comes from self preservation and loyalty to van who used to be his friend and someone he looked up to as an idol. But given that he could have moved at any time eh.

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shadowysea07 posted...

I mean except for the part where he planned to assassinate you as a child with van and the gardener and who knows how many other employees or how he kept vans stuff secret. So not exactly much loyalty there. Granted some of it comes from self preservation and loyalty to van who used to be his friend and someone he looked up to as an idol. But given that he could have moved at any time eh.

You're being pretty critical of him for things he didn't actually do and oversimplifying the motivations he had for them besides, but okay.

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NBIceman posted...

You're being pretty critical of him for things he didn't actually do

Yes he ultimately he didn't follow through with it. But just going as far as planning it (which doesn't make sense for the plot) certainly puts him a little far from loyal friend territory. There's a reason why he was let go and has to go back to malkuth. So points for not actually doing it but friends don't typically plan to murder each other. But he still covered up all the crap with van like every other character in the game not named Natalia which definitely hurts him on the loyal friend scale. Even if he is being loyal to his other friend he was lying to all his party members. As for his motivations yes his entire island was blown up and his family murdered. So I'm sure in his eyes the ends justified the means to an angry child. Though he was missing the actual truth of it all since Lukes father only murdered his father but were not responsible for the destruction of hod which I would assume Van knew but kept from him for some unknown reason.

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But just going as far as planning it (which doesn't make sense for the plot)

I don't understand what you mean by this.

but friends don't typically plan to murder each other

He was only planning it before they became friends.

But he still covered up all the crap with van like every other character in the game not named Natalia which definitely hurts him on the loyal friend scale.

I don't really think this has much bearing on whether you're a loyal friend or not, but either way, he recognizes he made mistakes with that whole thing, apologizes for them, and does his damnedest to make amends.

Though he was missing the actual truth of it all since Lukes father only murdered his father but were not responsible for the destruction of hod which I would assume Van knew but kept from him for some unknown reason.

Sounds like your bigger problem is actually with Van, then, not Guy.

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Yeah I ain't really following you at all here Shadow.

NBIceman posted...

I don't understand what you mean by this.

Killing luke would not make sense for the plot as the games villains needed him for the key events like akzeriuth and he was deeply ingrained into their plans.
UshiromiyaEva posted...

Yeah I ain't really following you at all here Shadow.

It's more or less abyss plot is a mess with each section running counter to the next and them then throwing in pre beginning of the game plots and the timeline in to make it more complicated. Like say Arietta being Tears senior.

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Killing luke would not make sense for the plot as the games villains needed him for the key events like akzeriuth and he was deeply ingrained into their plans.

Wasn't the idea that Guy was waiting to kill him until after the Akzeriuth events?

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NBIceman posted...

Wasn't the idea that Guy was waiting to kill him until after the Akzeriuth events?

No he had planned to loooooong before the start of the game back when og luke aka asch was even younger and was going to take his severed head into the dads office or bedroom or something iirc much like had been done to their father As A souvenir. However for whatever reason he gave up on that plan. Regardless it completely runs counter to the other plan so it makes little sense.

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shadowysea07 posted...

No he had planned to loooooong before the start of the game back when luke was even younger and was going to take his severed head into the dads office or bedroom or something iirc much like had been done to their father As A souvenir.

Right, because loooong before the start of the game Guy didn't give two shits about Van's larger plans or hadn't been clued in on them - he just wanted revenge on Duke Fabre.

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NBIceman posted...

I don't really think this has much bearing on whether you're a loyal friend or not, but either way, he recognizes he made mistakes with that whole thing, apologizes for them, and does his damnedest to make amends.

Wanting to apologize afterwards doesn't make up for knowingly letting someone plan murders let alone lead up to events like akzeriuth. Which is part of the annoyance with the game since everyone jumps on the blame luke bandwagon in game besides ion but when they do stuff 10000x worse willingly they all get a pass and all of them were keeping stuff hidden.
NBIceman posted...

Sounds like your bigger problem is actually with

Guy has enough involvement that he's not an innocent bystander by a long shot. Yes the antagonist committed the majority of the crimes but guy and the others were all involved or knew about it and stood by doing nothing to some extent or at bare minimum were omitting information at every turn or even actively working with him. I think that makes them all just as guilty in some capacity. Even more so when they blame a terrible incident on luke like akzeriuth when we all know that they were not responsible.

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I always wonder how many people that refuse to accept that part of the appeal of Abyss's party is that they all recognize that they've maybe not been great people in the past and go through great pains to rectify that are the kind of people who are fierce believers in rehabilitation of criminals and that people shouldn't be judged for their past mistakes in real life.

No party member in Abyss does something worse than what Luke did at Akzeriuth. The degree to which that was his fault is really immaterial in that sort of discussion.

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NBIceman posted...

I always wonder how many people that refuse to accept that part of the appeal of Abyss's party is that they all recognize that they've maybe not been great people in the past and go through great pains to rectify that are the kind of people who are fierce believers in rehabilitation of criminals and that people shouldn't be judged for their past mistakes in real life.

No party member in Abyss does something worse than what Luke did at Akzeriuth. The degree to which that was his fault is really immaterial in that sort of discussion.

You forget jade is one of the people directly responsible for hod since his replication tech was used for its destruction. And technically culpable for akzeriuth given luke wouldn't have been used as a weapon to destroy the sepiroth without his creation of fomicry and programming replicas. Though he didn't create luke directly. Jade is also responsible for the death of his teacher as well. He admits to some of that but that's the extent of it.

Then there's Anise who was responsible for akzeriuth since she was working with them, the deaths of billions between the war and the miasma incidents, the 400 people on the tartarus oh and throw in the 10k something replicas at the tower of rem to remove the miasma while we are at it along with our ion of course which is why people despise her so.

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You forget jade is one of the people directly responsible for hod since his replication tech was used for its destruction. And technically culpable for akzeriuth given luke wouldn't have been used as a weapon to destroy the sepiroth without his creation of fomicry and programming replicas. Though he didn't create luke directly. Jade is also responsible for the death of his teacher as well. He admits to some of that but that's the extent of it.

One of the pretty big themes of the game, told through the idea of fomicry, is that ideas and tools are not inherently good or evil and that their creators cannot reasonably be held responsible for everything that other people do with them. So no, he's not directly responsible for any of what you're claiming he is except for Nebilim, which was an accident.

Then there's Anise who was responsible for akzeriuth since she was working with them, the deaths of billions between the war and the miasma incidents, the 400 people on the tartarus

I'll give you the last one in this section but the other stuff would've happened with or without Anise. And really even that one I am giving you could probably be argued.

throw in the 10k something replicas at the tower of rem to remove the miasma

You mean the miasma that would've killed literally every living thing on the planet if nothing was done?

You're reaching into bad faith arguments now, so that's gonna be the end of my participation in this particular discourse.

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NBIceman posted...

One of the pretty big themes of the game, told through the idea of fomicry, is that ideas and tools are not inherently good or evil and that their creators cannot reasonably be held responsible for everything that other people do with them. So no, he's not directly responsible for any of what you're claiming he is except for

they used it as a bomb to blow up hod so yes he is directly responsible. It's part of the reason he later lead for the legal banned usage of fomicry after that. Yes he was likely just following orders but that only sounds like an excuse at the end of the day. Assuming he wasn't for it given that pragmatically it makes sense to sacrifice hod and the other islands to prevent a large scale war and we know he goes with the lives of the many outweigh the few during the rem incident. It was a messy situation for all involved with lots of moral dilemmas.

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NBIceman posted...

You mean the miasma that would've killed literally every living thing on the planet if nothing was done?

That could have killed every living thing on the planet had it not been for the antagonists involvement in the first place there would have been no justification for the rem incident. I will agree that anise had somewhat more limited involvement and obviously wasn't privy to everything but knew enough to be culpable.

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#7 - Velvet Crowe (Berseria)
I hate to say it, Niko... But I think Im a terrible person. I really thought I could have my own life back again, and I could forget everything else. I tried to act like I was doing it for Laphi, but it was all for myself. But I cant forget. I shouldnt forget. Laphi is dead. He was murdered without even knowing why. I will never forgive that... Ever!

I feel like its important to note before anything else here that optimism for Tales was kind of at an all-time low among fans when Berseria was in development. Zestiria had been widely considered a disaster, and if you were someone who didnt care for one or both of the Xillia games, youd really had to endure a rough stretch of entries in the series. So when the game was revealed and we got our first look at Velvet in her outrageous getup, the prevailing reaction of the internet was one that I could most accurately equate to a worldwide, simultaneous exchanging of wide-eyed looks. Oh no, we thought, here we go again.

Then we played it, and we all got to breathe a collective sigh of relief. Bamco had given us a great Tales game again, and theyd done it in no small part by creating an absolutely incredible protagonist.

Something that I think goes a long way into making Velvet interesting is that she already feels like a complete character before the fateful Scarlet Night. Shes a happy girl in an unhappy world, eking out a simple existence while having to deal with relatively pedestrian struggles like a sick brother whos most likely doomed no matter how much she tries to believe otherwise, the implications of her impending adulthood as a woman with desirable domestic qualities, and somewhat ambiguous romantic feelings toward her sisters widower that is largely distrusted on the basis of being an outsider in a tight-knit and somewhat isolated community. In another medium or even genre, thats a compelling story setup all on its own.

What we get instead is a really excellent story of vengeance. You could make a compelling argument, I think, that even at her lowest point, Velvet is never truly a violent person deep down. Shes motivated exclusively by her all-consuming hatred for Artorius, which in turn is only due to the pure love and devotion she has for her little brother. Shell use and hurt and kill other people in service of her goal if shes even the least bit convinced she has to, but she does it with a sort of dispassion, and as the game wears on it becomes more and more obvious that, no matter what she says, being known the universe over as a bane on the world weighs heavy on whatever part of her humanity shes retained. It feels like she has to relearn every day when she wakes up how to be a killer (which, incidentally, kind of excuses the overly dark and edgy dialogue she tends to spout in the early game, which would otherwise be a really off-putting aspect of the character - it reads like shes trying to remind herself over and over that this is what must be done). Its also intriguing to note that there likely existed many scenarios where she was a full supporter of Arthurs plans and ideals. She puzzles out in the prologue after some initial internal conflict that hunting boars for food is a rational thing to do in a manner disturbingly similar to some of the detached Abbey logic.

But she wouldnt be nearly this high if she wasnt well-rounded like all the other characters in this part of the list. I love the subtlety of the progression in her interactions with the rest of the party. Theres never any explicit attention drawn to it, but around the time of the first fight at the Throne she just starts to get a little friendlier. Small smiles in skits, calling people by name, that sort of thing. Toward the games end we even get little heartwarming lines like her telling Magilou, I hope you learn to like yourself. Endgame Velvet is probably as close as she could reasonably get to being the person she used to be given everything that happened, which is admirable. And theres a few other small moments - her profound sadness at being unable to taste the food she still loves to cook, the silly recurring quirk of being notably bad at nicknaming, her impassioned argument that Artorius genuinely believed that his actions were best for mankind, the brief occasions where she allows herself to think back fondly on the days when her whole family was together - that fill in the few remaining pieces that make her incredible. Her finest hour, though, comes in what is (indefensibly) an optional scene where she states, with no hesitation, that she wouldnt go back in time to change what happened to her little bro because changing events doesnt change people or intentions.

The final thing I want to do in this writeup is shout out Cristina Vee for turning in what is pound-for-pound the best voice performance in the series. Velvet goes through a metric ton of emotional turmoil of pretty much every kind in Berseria, and it wouldnt have worked at all if not for Vee clearly understanding the character so well. Even comparatively small things like the in-battle screams or the subtle changes in vocal pitch as she gets used to the partys presence, she just nails. Ive seen some people complain about this and it just baffles me. Its perfect.

TL;DR: When the worst thing I can say about Velvets story is that her enemys ambitions are just a little too obviously wrong, so that the player never has any prolonged periods of having to heavily consider the implications of what the protagonists are doing, it says a lot. I love that this is a revenge story that never gets hung up on killing their killer wont bring them back. Shes forthcoming about doing it for herself first and foremost, and no abstract benefit to her late brother or the world as a whole ever enters into her thinking. And we grow to love her through it. All that is why its so satisfying to see it through.

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Okay.... Velvet missing top 5 is perhaps the biggest shocker this entire list has offered.

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Smash Master posted...

Okay.... Velvet missing top 5 is perhaps the biggest shocker this entire list has offered.

this. Jade, Velvet, Tear, Luke and Yuri would probably be my top 5.

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DAMN having Velvet lower than Jude and Zelos is extremely painful. Very, very shocked at this placement. At least it's deservedly high.

Yowza, I feel like I enjoy Jude way more than the average person but I'd never dream of putting him above Velvet. These next write-ups ought to be interesting!

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I will at least agree Magilou is best Berseria

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#5 through #7 was probably the hardest string to settle on across the whole list. Those three are somewhat interchangeable.

It's just that I think it'd have been marginally more interesting if Velvet wasn't the one so clearly in the right in Berseria's conflict. Selfish though her motivations are, her actions do much more good for a much larger number of people than the Abbey's, but sometimes it feels like the game is trying to tell you that's not necessarily true. I dunno, it just creates a bit of a disconnect where her story doesn't feel like it was exactly right. It's a minor thing, but in the top 7 like this you have to decide which hairs to split eventually.

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It's going to be real frustrating because I won't even be able to read the Jude writeup that justifies the dude I though was generic anime protag man #9488 for the first 20 hours being ranked higher than her, because I literally just started playing the game again.

Jude is probably going to factor in xillia two heavily to get a high ranking. As one would definitely not be strong enough to get past the top thirty. Even worse if you have experience with jpn Jude. As na Jude is drastically toned down from the Milla fanboy and mean to Leia version.

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I remember back when Xillia was Japan only, Jude and Alvin were the 2 least popular characters
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Moment of truth, apparently!

#6 - Jude Mathis (Xillia)
"You go to such lengths to protect humans, so it's only fair that I become strong enough to protect spirits, too."

Jude Mathis, in many ways, is the perfect Tales Protagonist. That probably seems like a strange claim to make considering theres two more that havent been ranked yet, but let me explain what I mean.

Tales is obviously a very anime series, and its main characters tend to follow a certain anime main character blueprint. Theyre teenaged, male (but probably a little androgynous in their design), idealistic, do-gooding doofuses. Its a good, safe formula, but it doesnt always lead to the most interesting characters. KorShing was pretty much what happens when you take that blueprint and dont alter it at all. Stahn is what happens when you really lean into it and try to make it a strength. And so on.

Jude is undoubtedly cast in that same mold, but hes the best possible version. It starts with the doofus aspect. Instead of being a book dumb goofball that loves fighting and eating, hes intelligent and mature, just with a good bit of social awkwardness and a tendency to geek out about things at times. That kind of personality allows him to approach all of the ridiculousness that gets thrown at him with a calm mind, which makes the few instances where he loses his composure (namely, when something dramatic happens to Milla or Leia) seem more important.

Speaking of the ridiculousness, theres a lot of it in the first game alone. It takes him all of an hour to finish up at school for the day, encounter the Lord of Spirits, infiltrate a heavily-guarded government facility, and fall ass-backwards into a struggle that, before too much longer, involves a war between nations and a terrorist organization from another world. And most of the time, it barely seems to faze him. Which is probably because hes secretly a badass. Hes in a group with a woman that can harness the Four Great Spirits, a longtime battle-hardened mercenary, a ludicrously powerful magic girl with a booster, one of the greatest military minds in history, and Leia, and hes still the one that saves them in tough spots most often. Sometimes its just through quick thinking and situational awareness, but other times its just sheer force of will. During the fight with Maxwell, just before Milla returns, hes the only one that can even stand up, let alone launch an attack and then land a damn powerful punch after a little boost when she does show up. Also, remember when he casually steps out in front of a crossbow and then dodges it by just tilting his head slightly? Yeah. Secret badass.

But, of course, where Jude really shines is his development. The theme of Xillia 1, as Ive mentioned a few times, is the search for purpose. For meaning in life. Jude epitomizes that. Sure, hes a successful medical student and he seems to enjoy that well enough, but its pretty clear from the beginning that its not quite a passion. Its not the reason for his existence. Its the path of least resistance, though, and he doesnt have enough rebellion in him to go in another direction until he meets Milla. And maybe thats also part of the reason he doesnt freak out more about being thrown into fantastical circumstances that, for all intents and purposes, he shouldnt be equipped to handle. It seems like he recognizes that such an adventure is a chance for him to take the initiative and discover his real goals. At first, because he doesnt have a lot of experience with that (and because hes obviously taken by her), he just latches on to Milla, wanting to do nothing more than accomplish her own mission. Then, just when he thought he had it all figured out, she dies, and it all comes crashing down around him. So he shuts down. And people give him a lot of hate for how he acts at that point, but its completely understandable. Remember, as much as he doesnt act like it, hes just fifteen years old. Its a lot to take in. And anyway, it leads to a couple of great scenes when he finally resolves to move past it. He re-adopts Millas mission not just because of her, but because its something hes come to truly believe in. He finds the conviction he always wanted, and it gives him the strength to carry on when she later leaves again.

As great as that all is on its own, what really makes it shine is how perfectly its combined with a coming-of-age story. Rowen pegs him early on as desperately trying to become an adult as quickly as possible. And thats a dead-on description, because for all his maturity, its clear theres things Jude doesnt quite understand about growing up. The side-events with his father are some of my favorite not just in the Xillia games, but all of Tales. Derrick Mathis toes the line perfectly of being a hardass while still making it obvious that he loves his son. The first part of the sidequest has Derrick making a potentially life-or-death decision for a patient and having to explain to a shaken Jude that growing up means often having to take responsibility for hard choices. By the end, all of Judes experiences give him the confidence that allows him to make a similar decision when needed, followed by Derrick privately acknowledging how proud of him he is. Its extremely well done, and brings into the foreground for a little while just how respectable a young man Jude is on his way to becoming.

I touched on the Milla romance in her writeup, but I have to mention again how much I like it. It evolves naturally from what is initially a cute but lacking-substance infatuation and puppy-dog crush and idolization into something genuine and deep, born out of respect and understanding and trust. I really like that, even though it must kill him inside that he knows they can never be together, he never shows it, instead just choosing to appreciate the time they do have as best he can.

This is a good segue into Xillia 2. The appearance of Fractured Milla really throws him for a loop, as one might imagine, and he very obviously doesnt know how to feel about it for the entirety of her time with the party. His pragmatic way of thinking leads him to openly acknowledge that F. Milla and his Milla are different people, but it doesnt make him any more comfortable around her. Its telling that even though her death brings his Milla back, it still hits him hard. Part of that is sympathy for Elle and his general personality, sure, but honestly, the way he behaves around her at times makes me wonder if there wasnt some tiny part of himself that thought F. Milla was his chance to get everything he wanted. It almost feels like hes halfway trying to convince himself as much as anyone when he says My Milla and you are two different people. Thats all there is to it.


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Jude gets the most focus of any returning party member in Xillia 2, since hes the first to encounter Ludger and his work on Spyrites is fairly well-connected to the main plot. Its cool that he hasnt really changed much more. Hes maybe a little more fazed by the insanity of X2s events than X1s, but thats just because the stakes are higher, and he still finds a chance to casually recap the first game in hilarious fashion. His character episodes are easily the best in the game. They do a fantastic job of weaving together his research work and his relationship with Milla, which are the two biggest aspects of his character at this juncture. The difficulties he goes through in his research and determination to stay the course anyway show how much hes grown, and the reveal in the epilogue that he eventually succeeded and won the Howe Prize because of it brings his story to a perfect conclusion. Is there anything better than going along for a great characters entire journey like that?

Im gonna finish this quickly because its even longer than I expected. Costume design in 1 is terrible. 2 is much better, especially the green alternate color. Tons of fun to play in battle. Fist fighters are a good change of pace every once in a while. Snap Pivot is amazing and Palm Strike is broken.

So, to return to my original statement, while I dont think Jude is the best Tales protagonist, I do think hes the perfect Tales Protagonist. He represents the best possible version of their blueprint because he takes the usual tropes and makes them not actually feel trope-y, and he embodies the main themes of the story. Just great stuff. Hes a little unassuming, especially in comparison to some other main characters in the franchise and even next to the one he shares his own game with, but even so, its always surprising to me that hes not more well regarded.

TL;DR: Incredibly well-developed and likeable character. Compelling journey from beginning to end. Everything an RPG main character should be.

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Tales of Xillia Wrap-Up
Heaven smiles upon me because of my good deeds.

Xillia is one of the hardest parties to talk about as a general unit, because they often feel kind of disconnected from one another. Xillia 1, for example, has the two different stories that each give more focus to half the party than the other.

The biggest uniting factor, to my mind, is the poor dialogue across the two Xillia games. There are exceptions, of course, but for the most part, they dont have the long list of memorable quotes and humorous skits that most Tales games do. The story dialogue is often kind of stilted and most of the characters (especially in X1) dont sound like real people a lot of the time. This makes it hard for characters like Elize and Leia to make up for being pretty story-irrelevant and holds back even some of the better offerings (Alvin, Rowen, and Milla) from ascending even higher.

X2, by all accounts, should have been an avenue for the lower half of the cast to climb their way up the ranks, especially with the character episodes. Unfortunately, most of them get shoved far into the background in favor of the main story, and their primary role becomes being awed by how awesome Ludger is. The character episodes certainly help in some cases, but theyre inconsistent, and the best ones went to the members that needed them least.

I do like the casts chemistry and, as yall can see, I absolutely love some of the individuals, but all in all, Xillia has a middling Tales cast.

And they were never heard from again...

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Two posts!

And I can't reaaaaad them.

#5 - Yuri Lowell (Vesperia)
You cant deny that lives were saved because those bastards were put down. Youd rather tell those people, Sorry you have to die today, I promise well change things soon?

The third straight main protagonist bites the dust.

I love Yuri. You love Yuri. Everyone loves Yuri. Even people that dont like Tales love Yuri. So while I probably dont need to go on and on explaining why hes great, Im gonna do it anyway.

It doesnt take long to get a fully formed idea of who Yuri is. When hes called to help out with the aque blastia in the opening minutes of the game, he snarks and complains loudly about it, but shows no hesitation doing so anyway. Then a much more fun option quickly presents itself, in the form of tracking down the guy who stole it, and he wastes no time knocking out a couple of knights and breaking into a mansion to do it. Hes not bothered much by his ensuing arrest, nor by his chance encounter with a mysterious girl in the castle, who mentions soon after that Flynn told her to be careful if she ever met him.

So there we go. Hes a nonchalant, mischievous troublemaker who doesnt much care for the folks in high society and who has a good itch for adventure. But of course, theres more to it than that.

Yuri being a little older than the usual JRPG protagonist puts him at a very different place in the typical persons life, and I think thats portrayed well. He has a strong idea of what he wants to accomplish, and of whats wrong with the world and the change he wants to see in it, but has comparatively little concept of how to bring any of it about or patience to figure it out. I think a lot of us can probably relate to feeling that way at 21 (as a side note, it was a bizarre feeling to realize upon playing DE that I am now a few years older than him - 21 seemed real far away during my first Vesperia playthrough).

See, Yuri, at heart, is a man of action, not thought. Hes frustrated by anything thats out of his control. But since he quickly became disillusioned with the belief that one lone man can do anything significant as far as real change, hes reluctant to really take any of that action unless hes sort of forced into it, which, as we eventually see, brings out both the best and worst in him. So he leaves the heavy lifting to Flynn, knowing hes more suited to it, and commits instead to just righting small wrongs as he can. Around this time, presumably, is when he decides internally to serve as the dark knight to Flynns light. Despite his casual attitude, it clearly bothers him that his best friend has always been a little better at everything than him. Although he believes in what hes doing, he probably also derives some satisfaction in his ability to operate in the shadows to fix some things that Captain Flynn, as he derisively calls him, cant.

Unfortunately, this makes for a bad combination when taken with one of his other traits, which he happens to share with Alvin - that tendency to leap toward drastic solutions. Remember those opening minutes of the game? Dude jumps out of a second-story window when called for, rather than just walking out the door and down some steps. Or how about later on, when he slices his own arm open to snap Estelle out of panic following Beliuss death? Sure, both are the practical and quick option, but the common person wouldnt even consider either one. You could make a reasonable argument that Yuri has thrill-seeker tendencies bordering on an unconscious death wish (charging down Barbos alone, etc.).

And all of these qualities lead up to the cold-blooded dispatching of Ragou and then Cumore. Along with being a man of action, he is one of conviction, and once he decides that the world is simply better off without those men, he doesnt hesitate. And hell defend that decision to anyone who asks.

But its not as if hes proud of it, and this is where Yuri really shines. Hed much rather have things done Flynns way, which is probably the biggest reason why hes happy to let him take credit for things that the party does more to accomplish. The more influence Flynn holds, the better off everyone will be. His faith in his friend is full and unshakable. He just doesnt believe its a realistic option in the short-term anymore, and in the absence of anyone else willing to do it, he dirties his own hands to the detriment of himself. Hes well aware that he could become what he kills, and hes concerned about the effect it could have on those around him. The only time his strong voice ever wavers (much credit to Troy Baker, of course) is when he asks Estelle if shes afraid of him, and he freely admits his intention to distance himself from Flynn if and when he needs to. And this downward spiral does eventually present himself with his resolve to kill Estelle if he has to (again, drastic solution) before the rest of the party sets him straight. Good vigilante stories have to touch on two specific dangers (that of becoming a heartless killer yourself and of falling into the tendency of killing when there may be some other recourse), and Yuris does.

Its a tragedy that Vesperias disjointed three-act structure results in his arc sort of ending without a great conclusion. The sequence with Flynn at Aurnion is awesome, but if the whole third act had been devoted to the personal story built up between them instead of the shoehorned, rushed stakes-raising of a giant space monster, it couldve been something really special.

Obviously, though, hes still great enough to deserve finishing this high, especially when you consider his chemistry with the rest of the party. Whether its his banter with Raven, the trolling of Karol, or the wholesome friendship with Estelle, Yuri shows a lot of different sides to himself in his interactions with his fellow cast members, and they go a long way toward making him feel very complete. Hes good fun in battle, too. His fighting style is silly and impractical in all the right ways for a JRPG, and gives him a flair that leads to some of his artes (Dragon Swarm, in particular) feeling memorable.

If his story had been played out to completion, hed have been in the hunt for #1. But it wasnt, so he wasnt. 5th is still pretty damn good, though.

TL;DR: Hes great and we all know it, next ranking.

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Tales of Vesperia Wrap-Up
Oh, its so hard being popular!

Vesperias cast is fairly often heralded as the best in Tales and maybe even one of the best in JRPGs in general. Im not quite there. They ended up being extremely spread out across this ranking, which makes the party a little tough to judge. Theres two fantastic characters, one Patty, and a whole lotta in-between, where several members are perfectly fine but dont actually bring much to the table when you look close. DE in particular soured me a little on the party, and I dont know if its because Flynn and Patty just mess with the chemistry that much or if the somewhat clumsily executed addition of those two characters (even if theyd been more interesting) just makes everything feel a little bloated. Its probably a little of both.

Yuri and Raven drag the cast up pretty high on my overall ranking, and the chemistry among the rest is still good enough that they feel like more than the sum of their parts sometimes, but all things considered I do think Vesperias party is a little overrated.

And they were never heard from again...

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Gonna let this topic finish out at 500 and then make a new one to make our way through the top tier, so I'll save the tier recap until then.

Jade, Luke, Magilou, and Zelos. Any predictions on the order now that we're down to the wire?

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NBIceman posted...

Jade, Luke, Magilou, and Zelos. Any predictions on the order now that we're down to the wire?

Luke > Jade > Zelos > Magilou

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Magilou > Luke > Zelos > Jade

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Luke > Jade > Magilou > Zelos.

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Yessss Magilou still in this!

I will predict with my hopes.

Magilou > Luke > Jade > Zelos

Luke > Zelos > Magilou > Jade
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Magikazam #1

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Play Tales of Hearts R
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