Board 8 > Iceman Ranks Every Tales Series Party Member w/Writeups & Prediction Prizes

(+) Yeah! (+)

Boooo

Also how do you not even mention her mega obvious crush on Estelle??

I figured rita would be higher personally but your writeup does make sense

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NBIceman posted...

Sophie feels more like the main character.

Yeah I felt the same when I played it that Sophie was the real main character over asbel. Something it and xillia shared in common.

One thing you forgot to go into futher on/mention specifically was she also had the amnesia trope (which this series loves to use a lot) and it was handled relatively well surprisingly with a semi unique execution (something tales of also does every so often). It's rare that amnesia is executed well and it is one of the most eye roll worthy things commonly used in media across the board.

Interestingly much like in Lukes case I prefer Sophie from the child arc over the other arcs since her personality and development were top notch while the rest of the game was mediocre or weaker in comparison.

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

Boooo

Also how do you not even mention her mega obvious crush on Estelle??

Because I've never been able to figure out how to present my opinion that those feelings aren't as obviously romantic in nature as everyone says and that it really doesn't matter for her character at all whether they are friendly or romantic without pissing off all the shippers.

#21 - Laphicet (Berseria)
Eat my arm. I dont care. Just leave me the other one. I need it to clobber the jerk who made my Velvet cry!

Look, I know the competitions not exactly stiff, but if I was to call Laphicet the best kid character ever in a JRPG, itd still be pretty high praise, right?

I imagine were all pretty familiar with those characters. They generally go one of two ways. Theyre either unbearably whiny or emotional (see: Kamoana) or theyre a young prodigy who delights in lording their superiority over others. Sometimes theyre both at once. They almost always have a negative effect on the party chemistry because their presence ruins what would otherwise be enjoyable situations. But it can be tough to write them any other way because, yknow, theyre kids. Kids are whiny and annoying.

But Berseria gets it so, so right. It focuses on his innocence and kindness and love for adventure. It throws in just enough traits along the way so that he does still feel like a boy, though, what with his annoyance with being called cute or his dislike for the nickname Phi or his embarrassment at Velvets insistence at treating him like a little brother no matter the context. And all of that fits perfectly with his journey to self-discovery and identity. One of the best scenes in the game comes when his frustration at feeling like nothing more than a substitute for Velvets dead brother finally boils over - its a great way to show how much hes changed from the beginning. But even that doesnt hold a candle to his punching Innominat in the face, which ranks right up there with the best moments in the entire series.

But even with all that, his best aspect is the effect he has on the other characters in the game. He has a way of bringing out peoples true best nature through their interactions with him. Velvets deep-seated familial love, Eleanors commitment to being a protector, Eizens belief in freedom, even supporting characters like Grimoirh and Teresa show different sides around Laphicet. He even gets Magilou to show outward empathy once or twice, a feat no other character has claim to, and hes so genuine that hes also the only one to ever knock her off balance at all, which he does with some regularity.

I only have a few real complaints with the character. First, his development finishes up a little early, so late in the game he can sometimes feel like a vehicle to move the plot along since nothing that happens really impacts him personally. The second is that a couple of his soliloquies or big moments can come off a liiiittle bit silly through a combination of mediocre writing and uneven voice work. Those are pretty minor problems, though. The bigger one is that I dont really love his ending. Becoming the new Empyrean doesnt really seem like the natural end to his story in some ways. I get it on some level, but I dont know, it just doesnt quite land with me. It feels like it was really forced as a way to link to Zestiria. Maybe Im just tired of bittersweet Tales endings. It also makes the whole plot point of Heldalf merging with Maotelus in Zestiria make even less sense than it did before.

Fuck Tales of Zestiria.

TL;DR: The best child character in JRPGs, for whatever thats worth. He never once feels unwelcome in the party and his character growth is extremely pleasant and satisfying. He ends up elevating the other characters in the game too, which is about as big a compliment as you can pay to a cast member.

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Your Top 20, everybody.

Symphonia/Symphonia 2 (4)
Lloyd Irving
Raine Sage
Sheena Fujibayashi
Zelos Wilder

Abyss (5)
Guy Cecil
Jade Curtiss
Luke fon Fabre
Natalia Luzu Kimlasca-Lanvaldear
Tear Grants

Vesperia (2)
Raven
Yuri Lowell

Hearts (2)
Beryl Benito
Chalcedony Akerman

Graces (2)
Malik Caesar
Pascal

Xillia/Xillia 2 (2)
Alvin
Jude Mathis

Berseria (3)
Eleanor Hume
Magilou
Velvet Crowe

Pretty even distribution aside from a couple of standouts - it's easy to see why opinions on which game in the series are generally pretty varied.

I'd be curious to know who everyone thinks is the biggest surprise out of the characters remaining.

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Phinis A+

I can't comment on the remaining Hearts characters. Sheena I get, even if I don't agree
(bias against the ninja girl archetype, just always hated it). I PERSONALLY agree with Natalia here, though I think a lot of people will call you crazy. Malik I barely remember at all from Grace's character wise, so I'm looking forward to that writeup. Jude I only remember as bland generic protagonist #2748 from the 20 or so hours of Xillia I played, it makes me hopeful that my opinion of that game as a whole was colored by it being 2 months of short sessions once a week because I was playing with a friend.

I've never played Hearts, but Chalcedony is the weirdest name I've ever heard

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NBIceman posted...

They generally go one of two ways.

3 ways. The shy semi or completely emotionless child character is another common one which tales of has done before. Colette for a period, Presea, Sophie, Lapis, Suzu, Jay and so on. I think Mao from the jpn side of things. Granted half of these examples were either not actual children in age, inhuman or an artificial effect. And Colette is semi stretching it given she's a teenager but whatever.

_stingers_ posted...

I've never played Hearts, but Chalcedony is the weirdest name I've ever heard

Many people just call him Chal which sounds more like a normal name I guess. Some of us nicknamed him charizard and others chandelier. Hearts went with a gemstone/mineral naming theme much like steven universe and a few other series so all the characters are named after existing stuff. Some of the names are more normal like Pearl, Amber, Jade etc while others are not. Interestingly when they shoehorned the new character Galando in they didn't use a gemstone themed name which I should have picked up on but didn't until just now.

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NBIceman posted...

I'd be curious to know who everyone thinks is the biggest surprise out of the characters remaining.

Malik being the biggest one. I don't think I've ever seen anyone that ranks him highly let alone past Asbel (who I don't agree with either) or Richard (that one I do agree with even though he wasn't in parts 2 and 3 of graces as a playable character without narikiri dolls/exploits)

After him Natalia which people are generally eh on, Jude people hated his jpn version and were pretty moot on his na counter part then I guess Eleanor being last. As I don't recall many people liking her all that much but I don't think berseria has had it's character poll chance yet which usually sorts out the wheat from the chaff (which is why most of the last few games characters couldn't even place on the character polls) And that usually makes it obvious. whether they are well liked or just a flash in the pan. Yuri is one of the series top popular characters along with Kratos, Leon, Ludger and Mikleo. Most being pretty easy choices given they have the right balance of character and gameplay besides Ludger. Voice actors are also a large deciding factor which is how Ludger and Colette are ranked so highly.

Alvins the character people love to hate almost on par with anise. So I suppose it makes sense how it got up here. But yeah If I was a character in tales of xillia he would have been dead very early in. Since unlike their mentally deficient cast I wouldn't have tolerated his bs.

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Eleanor is another character like Natalia which I didn't care about much on a first playthrough but LOOOOOOOOVED on a second. It wasn't as big of a jump as Natalia since I never actively disliked Eleanor, but it was still noteable jump. Dunno why that is.

Maybe it's because I want her and Velvet to make out. I will die in this Ao3 hell.

Well you can dress up Eleanor like Natalia too

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Oh, you can be sure I do. I bought every one of those damn costumes.

The biggest tragedy in all of the Tales series as a while besides the the Zesteria backroom fucking is all the crossover promotional DLC that didn't come to the west.

WHY BOTHER PLAYING XILLIA 2 IF I CAN'T BE MADOKA??

NBIceman posted...

I'd be curious to know who everyone thinks is the biggest surprise out of the characters remaining.

Haven't played Hearts so I can't factor those two in, but Lloyd. ...Really all the non-Zelos Symphonia character tbqh. Beyond them... perhaps Pascal and Malik?

The Abyss and Berseria characters make sense to me, and I'd agree (and have more Berseria characters probably lol) and I'd also have Zelos, Raven, and Alvin up here I think. Wouldn't have Jude I think but he's alright. My controversial Tales character opinion is that Yuri is way overrated but honestly that's a holdover from "omg Yuri is the best JRPG character" phase this board had when Vesperia came out and he's cool. ...Which just leaves the Symphonia/Graces characters minus Zelos as the odd ones out.

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Oh...but Zesteria got the Evangelion DLC in the west...

Horaaaaaay..

xp1337 posted...

My controversial Tales character opinion is that Yuri is way overrated but honestly that's a holdover from "omg Yuri is the best JRPG character" phase this board had when Vesperia came out and he's cool. ...Which just leaves the Symphonia/Graces characters minus Zelos as the odd ones out.

Just like Vesperia as a whole, my hype for Yuri went down a lot on a replay, though I still like him lot.

.....My opinions on pretty much every Tales game changed pretty dramatically on a replay other than Berseria. I just rebough Graces f, gonna be interesting to see how that goes. Played that entire game co-op over a several month period, too.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Oh...but Zesteria got the Evangelion DLC in the west...

Horaaaaaay..

And xillia got the star diver? ones though timed. zesty also got the god eater ones iirc but that's a bamco ip. I think zesty also got the blue exorcist ones? Which I personally thought should have been done in tales of graces because come fucking on the cast is set up for that so much more. Hubert even already wears glasses!

I think the funniest thing is they keep on doing idolmaster and code geass dlc which never gets localized. Oh and I'm still salty about the 7 eleven costume for slay in zesty having that healing arte for it we never got.

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Yeah the only ones that get brought over are the ones I don't care about, or the ones I do care about but they are in Zesteria.

I just want MADOKAAAAAA

I'm quite happy that half of Symphonia's playable cast made it to the top 20, and I'm a little sad to see quite a few people here seem to find the cast unremarkable. I'm hoping your write up for these 4 can alleviate that negative mindset. I can only assume that the lack of voiced skits (dub) hurt people's memories of the cast.

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I totally get why Lloyd and Zelos are there. Sheena as well, even if I don't like her much. Raine....I FEEL like I understand why Raine is here, but I don't actually REMEMBER. I just know that I did like Raine. I would probably be even more fond of her if her character design wasn't ruined by the lipstick. I've ways hated that from the moment I first played the game on release.

Yeah, looks like the characters I pretty much expected to be mentioned a lot.

Well, let's knock out one of them now.

#20 - Natalia Luzu Kimlasca-Lanvaldear (Abyss)
I was a fool. I thought my job was to help the suffering in places like Akzeriuth and the front lines. But I was wrong. I should have stayed by Father's side and admonished him when he strayed down this errant path.

I gotta admit, Im as surprised as any of yall that I have Natalia ranked this high. It wasnt long ago that shed have been way down on the list, but something about her suddenly clicked for me on my last Abyss playthrough for whatever reason.

Like most of the Abyss cast, she doesnt start off as a particularly likable character. Her defining trait when shes first introduced is being obnoxiously clingy to Luke, and shes about as rude and haughty as you can get when dealing with the rest of the party as well. That all lasts for about the space of a single dungeon, which is where she differs from the rest of the group. Its not long afterwards that we get to Akzeriuth, where she wastes no time at all literally getting her hands dirty to treat the sick there, making it obvious early on that were not dealing with the garden-variety useless royalty character with Natalia. Her transition into being a pleasant person comes much quicker, and what I really like about it is that she doesnt just magically become nicer. There are a couple of times throughout the rest of the game where she slips back into old habits and becomes very bossy and overbearing again, but she apologizes profusely when shes called out for it. It feels much more real, like shes really had to make a concerted effort to get past her earlier behavior but isnt quite perfect yet. Its rare to see development handled like that, so it sets her apart.

But thats not where her development ends. The subplot where her true parentage is revealed later in the game leads to some of Abyss best moments. If the partys escape from Baticul, aided by the citizens who love Natalia for what shes done for all of them whether shes the real princess or not, doesnt move you at least a little bit, then I dont know if you have a soul. That whole sequence comes along around the time in the story that the party has really started to form a bond, and the fact that they share in her struggles the way they do is the biggest indicator, both to the player and to the characters themselves, that theyve become true companions. Also, the kings later acceptance of her kind of acts as another turning point, where the Kimlascan royal family stops being worthless assholes and actually begins aiding the main party.

Also, while its somewhat understated because no one ever explicitly brings it up in-game, Natalias kind of a badass. She saves the party on multiple occasions, first in Theor Forest where she essentially pulls a 180 no-scope to snipe Sync out of a tree, later when she manages to duel pretty evenly with the gun-wielding Legretta during an ambush, and finally when she lands the killing blow on Largo a split second before he was going to take Lukes head off. She doesnt hesitate for even a moment to strike down her real father in order to protect her friends. That iron will, more than anything, is what sums up Natalia. She may look and sometimes act the part of the graceful princess who fights on the political front rather than the battlefield, which is a part she can certainly play incredibly well. But when push comes to shove, she takes absolutely no shit from anyone, and shell put her head down and get the job done with the best of them. She doesnt abuse her rank, but she knows how to pull it when its necessary. The only time her resolve ever falters is when Asch is killed, which is perfectly understandable, and even then she snaps out of it pretty quick once Jade lays into her. I also really like her ditzy, completely-out-of-it side. It only pops up on rare occasion, but when it does, it makes for some of the funniest moments in a game not lacking for funny moments, like when Anise manages to convince her that Van draws power from his beard or when she lights a pot on fire while trying to cook and, in a panic, tries to fix it by casting Heal.

By now, Im sure some of you are screaming at me through your computer screen about that line from when Guy tells her and Asch that hes going back to wait for Luke at Yulia Road. But the REAL Luke is right here! Natalia pleads. And that line is pretty terrible. Its partly what holds her back from being ranked even higher. Honestly, though, that attitude doesnt last long at all, and it seems like its pretty heavily motivated by the Akzeriuth tragedy still being fresh in her mind. She realizes almost immediately afterwards that Luke and Asch are two different people, and she really doesnt treat Luke as any less for the entire game outside of that one line. So while I definitely dock her a few points for it, I think its seriously overblown.

Ill finish off by talking briefly about her as an in-game fighter, because shes a very underrated support unit as well. Shes a marginally quicker healer than Tear is and shell spend more of her downtime casting buffs on the party than dishing out damage. In skilled hands, though, she can be a respectable damage dealer as well, because her defense is surprisingly solid and some of her artes are pretty powerful. Plus, even though you have to suffer through the horrendous crafting sidequest to get the Elven Bow, it does give her Noble Roar, which barely missed out on being included in my Mystic Artes top 10. Her only real weakness is that she burns through TP like no ones business, but once you get certain accessories, even that ceases to be an issue.

TL;DR: Im not sure why it took me so long to realize how great Natalia is, but better late than never, right? Shes not only a tremendous Tales character - shes one of the better princess characters in video games and. Just an all-around great character - likable, fun to play as, well-developed. Were it not for one or two rough moments, Id be inclined to rank her even higher.

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Yuuup, Natalia is great. Much like a lot of character stuff in Abyss, it's such a shame some of her great stuff is hidden behind missable sidequests, but there's still tons of good stuff there in game.

Plus you can cheese almost the entire game by playing as her. Yeah it's BORING, but I wanna beat that fucking Sword Skeleton dammit.

There's also that scene where Guy rescues Anise from falling off a cliff and Natalia says something like "well if you didn't rescue her I never would've forgiven you" which seems very unnecessary and bitchy.

Other than that, I feel like she's the quickest to put Akzeriuth behind her (besides Ion and Mieu) which is very nice in early-mid Part 2 where everyone else is either still angry or at least looks down on Luke (with Guy it's not as noticeable but I think it still happens).

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

Raine....I FEEL like I understand why Raine is here, but I don't actually REMEMBER. I just know that I did like Raine. I would probably be even more fond of her if her character design wasn't ruined by the lipstick. I've ways hated that from the moment I first played the game on release.

Raine is slightly odd but I can see why when I do remember her having some pretty big scenes despite her being semi important but not completely essential like sheena and colette and of course zelos. The tower of salvation religion being all a lie stuff in part 1 and then the sidequest with her family in Exire that was randomly fully voiced and had an amazing scene for it. I'm kinda disappointed we never find out what happened to her father and or who her lover was that she got the Balacruf Mausoleum crowns from.

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

Plus you can cheese almost the entire game by playing as her. Yeah it's BORING, but I wanna beat that f***ing Sword Skeleton dammit.

Ah yes the way the enemy ai is set up and with free run it's much like so where you kite and keep drawing enemies aggro. I actually for one playthrough did a Natalia jade anise guy party swapping between natalia and guy since she has long range while guy has self healing.

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Xillia and Xillia 2 have arrived.

PS3 is tomorrow <_<

#19 - Chalcedony Akerman (Hearts)
I dont want to become a man who would use saving the world as an excuse to abandon his fellows.

Ill get the big negative out of the way first. Chal here is a strong, strong contender for the title of worst visual design in the series. The massive armor that is his Soma is comical, especially when taken in concert with his short, skinny legs, and the bowl cut hair is just embarrassing. The Hearts cast is one of the most consistently good in terms of visuals, so he stands out in a real bad way.

Luckily for Chalcedony, thats the least important aspect of a character for me, and he gets high marks everywhere else. The air-based combat in Hearts suits him perfectly considering he, you know, has wings. Zipping around the battlefield with him just feels so damn smooth and free, like what Action RPG combat was always meant to be. And between the sword, armor, light element affinity, ability to heal, and service as a knight of the worlds church, hes also got the cool little distinction of being the Tales party member thats closest to being a traditional RPG Paladin.

It shows in his character, too. For a while, he has the same sort of self-righteous, sanctimonious arrogance shared by every Lawful Good DnD Paladin that all the other players at the table hate. But he improves tremendously after he mends fences with the party and joins up. He starts showing the good aspects of the archetype in his loyalty and sense of duty and respect for his companions. His wry sense of humor humanizes him pretty quickly and allows him to develop some of the more enjoyable friendships in the game with Kor and Gall, not to mention the familial relationship with Peridot and Pyrox. That one is especially great - he goes from someone they follow mostly because they were assigned to his unit to someone that they truly look up to. The one stumble he has as far as relationships is the Paraiba romance, which is sweet enough but severely underdeveloped and kind of hamstrung to begin with by Paraiba being a really terrible character.

Chalcedony also has the benefit of being the central focus of the best scene in Hearts: his defiant stand against Incarose in the volcano where he takes down two of her units almost single-handedly. And I appreciate that he doesnt brood excessively over losing his two companions afterwards - instead, he finds comfort in the bonds they shared and resolves to earn the faith they put in him. Really, for someone who puts as much pressure on himself as he does, he rarely falls into the angst trap at all. The one exception is in his church confessions, which stand out because most characters have silly or humorous ones where his are actually serious and sad. But they come off as actual depth and not just cheap emotion bait.

TL;DR: He starts out kind of rough, but once he loosens up, it becomes obvious that Chalcedony was always a good dude that just took his responsibilities a little too seriously. He placed all his self-worth on being the best knight possible, for better or worse, and it left him with a lot of weight on his shoulders (starting with that heinous breastplate, heyoooo). Once he moved past that, he became an awesome, well-rounded character.

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Goober.

His elemental affinity and having the most common enemy weaknesses only with his ranged artes made him a staple of my party. I wanted to use innes but due to most enemies being not weak to water or resistant or worse to it I rarely ever put her in the party.

Beryl ended up being the most powerful physical attacker though hilariously due to how hybrid artes worked and her being one of the few characters who's stat can go past the 2k mark (innes and I think gallando being the others)

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One last drop for the night.

#18 - Sheena Fujibayashi (Symphonia)
... Im so stupid. Stubborn to the very end... I really need to start acting more feminine at times like this and just let him rescue me Heh, that wouldnt be my style, now, would it?

Sheenais the most purely likable character in the series. Or if not, shes definitely a strong contender. From almost the very beginning, even when shes technically trying to kill you, its not like Symphonia makes any attempt whatsoever to hide that shes actually a kindhearted, well-meaning person, especially on the Hard Path. Ostensibly her one goal is to assassinate Colette, but she sure seems to take a lot of detours to try and cure a sick guy or play hide-and-seek with a group of kids. Its obvious that shes not an antagonist of belief, just circumstance, and she doesnt even stay that way for long. And once she joins up and gets a little comfortable, her fun personality and playful sense of humor come out immediately. She has a lot of great individual moments (Corrines death is pretty far and away the most emotional scene in the main story), and even when shes not doing anything that important, Im grateful for her presence in the party because its just so pleasant.

And more often than not, she is doing something important. I would argue shes the most plot-relevant party member not named Lloyd. Shes the initial link to Tethealla and the one who has to take care of everything involving the Summon Spirits. And that all shows well in her development. She starts, in some ways, as a much less confident version of Lloyd. She realizes pretty quick that action taken to save Tethealla would doom Sylvarant, but instead of immediately deciding that there must be a way to help both worlds, she retreats into a paralysis of indecision. Her lack of self-confidence stemming from the Volt incident makes her almost incapable of doing anything meaningful to try and fix things. Its satisfying to watch her gradually gain that confidence back throughout the journey and become one of the most stalwart party members by the original Symphonias end. A lot of that is due to Lloyds influence, and yes, if it wasnt already obvious from their respective rankings, I am one who thinks shes a much better pairing for him than Colette is. While were on the subject, though, I do like her relationship with Zelos as well - we can tell a lot about it with the limited info were given and her crying over him if you choose his death route is a nice little touch.

I do have some issues with Sheena, but theyre fairly minor. Shes a pretty bad combat unit, I think - the Summons would be awesome in theory, but the Over Limit mechanics in Symphonia kind of ruin them. If it worked like it does in Vesperia or especially Abyss, itd be a whole different story. Also, shes another one that gets kind of shortchanged in Dawn. Its cool that she does a bit more ninja-esque stuff in that game, but she also somehow becomes little more than that girl that falls in holes even though that happens exactly once in the original Symphonia. And she only summons twice! She gets some points for being the only one smart enough to realize that if Emil becomes a Summon Spirit she can just make a pact with him, but overall her Dawn appearances kind of leave a bad taste in my mouth.

TL;DR: Sheena may not be the absolute deepest Tales character. Shes not the funniest or the most creative or most unique. Shes not the best developed or best designed (although I have to admit shes gorgeous) or the most fun to use in battle. But like I said, shes just so gosh darn likable. Her presence makes Symphonia so much more enjoyable.

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NBIceman posted...

and yes, if it wasnt already obvious from their respective rankings, I am one who thinks shes a much better pairing for him than Colette is.

Most either pair him with her or Raine since the latter he actually mentioned he was attracted to/had feelings for. So you aren't alone there. It's kinda funny that Raine and Lloyd isn't canon given rpg protagonists and anime in general are denser than a black hole. It's very rare for them to admit feelings for a female character.

NBIceman posted...

Shes a pretty bad combat unit, I think - the Summons would be awesome in theory, but the Over Limit mechanics in Symphonia kind of ruin them. If it worked like it does in Vesperia or especially Abyss, itd be a whole different story.

Ugh yes and it kills me that they didn't fix it in the ps3 port. Especially when Corinne functions as a normal summon that doesn't need overlimit. I also think they should have added in her mystic arte from rm3.
Melee arte wise I like her well enough but Since Genis and Raine make up the best party for unison artes and Lloyd is obviously a fixture I typically end up picking either Zelos/kratos or Presea for the last slot.

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I'm glad to see your reasoning. I would say I should replay to get a fresh feel for the cast myself...but that's the one Tales game I don't know if I'm gonna be able to replay. I slammed the entire game out in 3 days when it released and I was...14, I think, and within the next 2 years I played through it 2 more times in full. When Symphonia HD came out, I played for like 3 hours and couldn't STAND how it played after playing the actual 3d entries. Very difficult to go back to.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

When Symphonia HD came out, I played for like 3 hours and couldn't STAND how it played after playing the actual 3d entries. Very difficult to go back to.

Doesn't help that it runs poorer than the original release.

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I'm definitely of the opinion that Symphonia really hasn't aged well gameplay-wise.

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Even ignoring the fact that's its just faking being 3d, it felt so STIFF. Once Lloyd finished his combo, it was almost like I felt like a full second before I could resume.

Fun fact, the first time I played through Symphonia, I never once interacted with the CC menu or even knew what it was until the middle of the final dungeon. I had only just started playing JRPGS. Legend of Dragoon on N64, didn't understand it and quit. FF8, didn't understand it and quit. Then Symphonia, which I loved and beat....but barely actually understood or engaged with it as an RPG. No fucking clue how I beat it.

Symphonia has definitely not aged gracefully, but I played it with my fiance a few years ago as her first tales game and she still enjoyed it. It would be hard to go back after Berseria, though

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And I would definitely have Sheena in my top 5 personally, surprised to see her so low

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I can see that. Once we get into the top 5 of this list, though (well, top 4, anyway), we're really getting into characters that I consider to be among my favorites in all of fiction, not just in the series or even just video games. And yeah, I don't think she's really special enough to be on that level.

#17 - Malik Caesar (Graces)
If were apologizing for the past, Ive got one. When you were my student, I used to roll dice to determine your test scores.

So, first of all, Malik has the all-around best repertoire of Mystic Artes in the whole series, capped off by that tremendous Malik Beam.

More importantly, though, hes the only Graces character other than Sophie thats consistently entertaining while also being relatively deep. Malik generally does a pretty good job of balancing his role of the wise mentor that looks at the big picture of things and keeps the party focused on their objectives and that of the goofy jokester that trolls the hell out of everyone. He brings a much-needed dose of pragmatism to the otherwise idealistic party as the only one who shows a willingness to kill Richard both to stop Lambda and as an act of mercy to Richard himself.

The best of both sides of Malik tends to come out in his interactions with Sophie. In the beginning, sure, shes the most frequent target of his trolling because he knows shell repeat anything he says and draw funny reactions from the rest of the party, but before too long he starts to actually speak candidly with her. One skit mentions how they frequently have long conversations lasting well into the night that touch on a wide variety of subjects, and as the game goes on, the things she repeats seem less like blatantly made-up facts about the world and more like things that hed just naturally say when talking to a friend, even if its not strictly age-appropriate (like how its nice to pound a cold one after a long day). It creates a really sweet dynamic because he obviously appreciates having an innocent and honest kid around that he knows wont judge him for anything he says or does, or anything that he said or did in the past.

And whats somewhat unique about Malik in comparison to a lot of the other troll characters of the series is that some of his trolling has an actual purpose beyond his own amusement. Regardless of all of the other circumstances that led to Lorelias death, its clear that he believes it could all have been avoided had he just been completely honest with her. All his teasing of Asbel and especially Hubert in the Future Arc seems to largely be an attempt at keeping them from ending up with the same regrets. He really feels like a mentor during that time, even if he has a tendency to go a little overboard with it.

I dont have much to say about his design or gameplay. His weapon is cool even if its a little silly and nonsensical, but in a lot of respects, hes a pretty standard caster thats still fun to play because everyone in Graces is at least sort of fun to play.

Unfortunately, like too many characters in the Graces cast, Malik is almost completely irrelevant to the main story, so as much as I personally like him, its hard to rank him any higher than this because he ends up being kind of forgettable when compared with characters yet to drop. For all of the attention they give to his remorse at giving up on the revolution in his home country, they never connect that to current events. They could have played up more of a resolve not to make the same mistakes again or something like that. It would have at least made him feel a little less tacked on. Even so, he plays an important part in the group dynamic, which makes up for his lack of relevance enough to give him a pretty great spot on this ranking.

TL;DR: Fantastic character that you could otherwise lift right out of the game without much changing plot-wise. Hes so great in other respects that he earns a high ranking anyway, but it definitely holds him back.

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Looking up Malik's mystic rates, I'm reminded of both how great that last one is and how solid Grace's looks despite it's Wii routes.

Is that the one where he just shows his back? Because that's the only one I remember

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https://youtu.be/vQuw363F888

And this is also very good.

https://youtu.be/4bM3x2BUrLo

Malik and Pascal were the only Grace's party members that I actually liked so glad to see them up high. Sophie is fine too but I didn't have any strong feelings about her one way or the other. The rest are just kind of whatever or bad to me.

Yay for another sheena fan!

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NBIceman posted...

Sheena is the most purely likable character in the series.

like 15 years ago she was actually my most disliked symphonia character

i don't even remember why

Now I just think she's "meh."

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#16 - Eleanor Hume (Berseria)
The cowards path is not that of an exorcist. Theyll say, I didnt know anything, so I cant be blamed. I cant... I cant live like that!

And so the first of Berserias power trio of female characters goes down.

Its pretty damn impressive to pull off a character like this without ever once making her feel like a preachy goody-goody. It wouldve been really easy to just take her through the basic journey of her archetype where shes aggressively combative to the party when she first joins, slowly warms up to them over time, and then commits fully to their cause by the end. But since this is Tales, they throw some curveballs. She seems, to some extent, to be committed to making the best of things when she first joins, because shes immediately willing to have cordial conversations with them and they all end up getting along fairly well not long afterwards. Probably helps that it would only take about five minutes with that group before it becomes painfully obvious that the Abbey is at least halfway full of crap.

Her development proceeds in a more-or-less predictable fashion from there, but again, it never feels forced, and the execution is quite satisfying all the way around. She learns to think for herself, and her overall worldview changes, but her actual ideals never do, because at a fundamental level, the Abbeys principles were fine. Leadership just took them too far and the methods they used in service of them were reprehensible. Even in Eleanors very first scene, we get to see that she has doubts about how their idea of reason really impacts the world. By the end, she understands that reason and emotion dont necessarily have to be mutually exclusive.

And its nice that she eventually takes it upon herself to remind Velvet that all of the worlds ills dont rest solely on her shoulders. Their relationship is probably the best one in the game - circumstances prevent them from ever completely breaking down a barrier of friendship, but they clearly come to trust and respect and rely on one another quite a bit. The small scenes in the Aball illusion that show just how close they couldve been in another life are honestly some of the most painful in that sequence, which is saying something.

Really, while she obviously has the closest bond with Laphicet thanks to her status as his vessel, Eleanor feels most connected to the two daemons in the party. She brings out a softer side to Rokurou almost never seen otherwise - its rare that he has a discussion with anyone other than her that doesnt have something to do with fighting - and even shes surprised sometimes at how well they seem to understand each other. Its a curious dynamic considering that her hatred of daemons was her motivation for becoming an Exorcist to begin with.

This is a good segue into the sidequest with the troll daemon that killed her mom, which kind of feels like the simultaneous high and low point of the character. I love that we get the chance to see her with her defenses down and that she really seems, if only momentarily, to be at risk of succumbing to malevolence herself. Really puts into perspective how tough it must have been for her to keep those feelings at bay all along and how similar she and Velvet truly are. Its the exact sort of thing some Zestiria characters could have benefited immensely from. My one complaint about that sidequest is that its extremely rough from a writing perspective. Berseria does a fantastic job with subtlety for the most part, but thats completely absent from these scenes. It makes what should be a memorable and important piece of development feel too heavy-handed and overdone.

Ultimately, though, thats a small complaint. I really love Eleanor. Deceptively strong-willed despite her crybaby tendencies, unfailingly kind, but far from boring - she has a feisty side if the moment strikes her. Shes just a lovable character. Like, seriously, Im pretty sure at least three NPCs try to marry her in-game. Look, I dont blame them. Shes beautiful and can handle herself in a fight besides. Honestly, as Im thinking about it, of the six Shepherds we know anything about, shes the only one that actually seems suited to the position.

TL;DR: Tales doesnt do a whole lot of clever naming with their characters, but Hume really hits it on the nose. Shes the only true human in the party in the literal sense and the most human in the figurative. Shes a constant representation of the idea that while people make mistakes and can be misled, at their core, most generally want to do good. Thats an important role for the kind of themes Berseria examines, and she manages to serve it while still being really well-rounded.

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Definitely didn't want to see Eleanor go before the remaining Symphonia cast members, but she's high enough that I can't complain.

NBIceman posted...

while also being relatively deep.

Yeah I don't consider him very deep. He is every bit as developed as Regal was in symphonia and they never ever go into his background for joining the civil war thing in part 1.

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Well, "deep" here may mean something different to me than you. I'm using it to mean, like, layered. I think he has multiple interesting sides to his personality and general characterization. He feels much more complete to me than someone like Regal, who really only has one personal plot thread that doesn't display itself in interactions with the party or the rest of the world very often.

Anyway, one more tonight.

#15 - Raine Sage (Symphonia)
Its ironic. My human blood spurs my intellectual curiosity, and my elven blood provides me with the years I need to satisfy it. It's almost as if I'm acknowledging being happy that I was born a half-elf. Even though, up until now, I've never once thought such a thing before....

With Symphonia being the most visible game in the series, Raine is probably one of the most clear and obvious examples of the Tales tendency to get a little creative with their characters in terms of breaking cliches and tropes, because where a lot of those characters have to grow into it, Raine demonstrates it from the very beginning. The White Mage in JRPGs tends to be an endlessly kindhearted, physically frail, demure, somewhat naive teenage girl who will never hesitate to help out someone in need, regardless of context. Raine is none of that. Shes a world-weary woman with some pretty violent tendencies who explicitly calls out the other party members for being too nice and, on a couple of occasions (most notably with Sheena in Luin), has to be talked into healing or helping someone in desperate need of it. And its fantastic.

Symphonia is an almost annoyingly idealistic game, and Raine, similar to Malik in Graces, is the only consistent source of some much-needed pragmatism. She has a strong sense of the responsibility placed upon the party (probably partly because she was never meant to go on the Regeneration journey originally) and never once loses sight of the larger picture. Shes the party member whose views differ the most from Lloyds - where he believes their journey to save the world is pointless if they cant save individuals, she worries that all the extra effort they go to in saving those individuals leaves them dangerously close to losing sight of their ultimate purpose. Its not that shes coldhearted, exactly - shes clearly deeply bothered by her inability to save Dorr, for example - she just accepts that some sacrifices may be necessary, and says so explicitly in that one skit with Regal that I mentioned in his write-up. She softens up a little by the end of the game as Lloyds determination starts to inspire her, but she never loses that realistic edge. I also appreciate that her intelligence isnt limited to book smarts - shes situationally aware enough to realize that somethings up with Kratos right at the games beginning and theres several times where the group only has a clear direction because Raine logically puzzles things out.

Her more personal story threads are also great. She clearly takes half-elf persecution just as hard as Genis, but she doesnt wear it on her sleeve like he does. I adore the scene in Iselia late in the game where all the townsfolk go off on the mayor for being a bigot and she runs off because shes so overcome by all the support, then tries to play it off as just not wanting to waste her time lecturing him herself. But that even pales in comparison to the sidequest dealing with her mother. Raines confrontation with her in Exire is nothing short of heartbreaking (thanks in no small part to Kari Wahlgrens voice work), easily the hardest-hitting scene in the game. It was a clever move to tie her ruins obsession to that as well. Its really a shame that Dawn never followed up on the thread they left dangling that Raine might try to go find her again.

Speaking of DotNW, Raine is the only returning character that isnt really affected at all by that game, positively or negatively. Her biggest contribution is immediately figuring out the whole Emil/Ratatosk thing, but her knowledge doesnt have any real bearing on the plot so all it actually does is further drive home how clever she is. Like with other characters, I dont love that she doesnt show a little more faith in Lloyd, but at least that cynicism is in keeping with her character.

Also helping Raine is the fact that shes almost unarguably the most important combat unit in OG Symphonia. Good luck winning some of the harder fights in the game without her in the party. Her healing is fantastic, with the best Revitalize in the series, and even her offensive spells pack a good punch. Its actually a cool (although maybe accidental) gameplay-story parallel - no one ever makes a huge deal of it or anything but its seemingly implied multiple times that Raine is a particularly gifted magic user even in-universe.

TL;DR: Raine has an important role in the party that would probably make her unlikable if she wasnt pulled off so well. Its clear that her rough edges come from a good place, and if anything it makes her personal struggles, not to mention her sweet moments or the rare times her dry sense of humor comes out, all the more memorable. And to top it all off, shes great in battle. I have a hard time coming up with bad things to say about her.

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NBIceman posted...

He feels much more complete to me than someone like Regal, who really only has one personal plot thread that doesn't display itself in interactions with the party or the rest of the world very often.

Regal interacted in skits much like Malik but It does seem like he had few skits compared to the other characters so I will give you points there.

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I'll say it. Eleanor too low. Top 2 character in Berseria only to Velvet. (and i am dying inside that she is losing to lloyd irving of all people, raine too)

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I don't put Eleanor out over Magilou, but she's definitely minimum top 10 for me.

Lloyd I am fine with even if I don't agree and think he's a weiner. His VA work gets him far, lol. Without it he takes good hit.

Also can't speak for the Hearts girl still in this. I guess she's fine simply for looking decent, since after watching the Mystic Artes comp yesterday I think Hearts may have some of the ugliest character designs I have ever seen. I hate basically everything about that game's aesthetic, it's approaching Star Ocean 3-5 at it's lowest.