Writeups & Prediction Prizes

Topic List	Page List: 1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10
Maniac64 03/25/20 1:04:33 PM #401:	Raine is awesome, she was a character I just liked more and more as the game went on. I actually didnt use her in battle for a good while (no idea why) and once I was forced to for a hard boss fight I realized I had been an idiot. --- "Hope is allowed to be stupid, unwise, and naive." ~Sir Chris <cite>Maniac64 posted [p:936206301] in Iceman Ran... [t:78413187]...</cite> <quote>Raine is awesome, she was a character I just liked more and more as the game went on. I actually didnt use her in battle for a good while (no idea why) and once I was forced to for a hard boss fight I realized I had been an idiot. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Haunter12O 03/25/20 1:07:38 PM #402:	Eleanor is top 10 material for sure. IMHO Magilou is probably top 20 she loses points for being annoying in the first half of the game, before suddenly turning over a leaf. Im surprised that Luke, Jade, Tear, and Jude are still in the mix. <cite>Haunter12O posted [p:936206451] in Iceman Ran... [t:78413187]...</cite> <quote>Eleanor is top 10 material for sure. IMHO Magilou is probably top 20 she loses points for being annoying in the first half of the game, before suddenly turning over a leaf. Im surprised that Luke, Jade, Tear, and Jude are still in the mix. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UshiromiyaEva 03/25/20 1:19:20 PM #403:	Luke and Jade are both extremely solid locks for top 10, top 5 in Luke's case. No surprise there. <cite>UshiromiyaEva posted [p:936207098] in Iceman Ran... [t:78413187]...</cite> <quote>Luke and Jade are both extremely solid locks for top 10, top 5 in Luke's case. No surprise there. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Haunter12O 03/25/20 1:42:27 PM #404:	Jade is probably my least favorite character in Abyss, and one of my least favorite Tales characters overall. Unpopular opinion, I guess. Personally, I wouldnt rank anyone in Abyss over anyone in Berseria. Though I do acknowledge Lukes growth allowing him to be a well-developed protagonist. <cite>Haunter12O posted [p:936208306] in Iceman Ran... [t:78413187]...</cite> <quote>Jade is probably my least favorite character in Abyss, and one of my least favorite Tales characters overall. Unpopular opinion, I guess. Personally, I wouldnt rank anyone in Abyss over anyone in Berseria. Though I do acknowledge Lukes growth allowing him to be a well-developed protagonist. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
shadowysea07 03/25/20 3:06:56 PM #405:	Maniac64 posted... Raine is awesome, she was a character I just liked more and more as the game went on. I actually didnt use her in battle for a good while (no idea why) and once I was forced to for a hard boss fight I realized I had been an idiot. Probably due to her not being very useful until after she learned nurse and photon. Since prior kratos can heal and she doesn't have any attack options to use when not healing. Oh and she wasn't playable till the fire temple so that may have been a factor. --- The real treasure is the skeletons we made along the way. A battle where my skeleton is in my body and enemies skeletons no longer are is a good battle <cite>shadowysea07 posted [p:936212794] in Iceman Ran... [t:78413187]...</cite> <quote>Maniac64 posted... </cite> <quote>Raine is awesome, she was a character I just liked more and more as the game went on. I actually didnt use her in battle for a good while (no idea why) and once I was forced to for a hard boss fight I realized I had been an idiot.</quote>Probably due to her not being very useful until after she learned nurse and photon. Since prior kratos can heal and she doesn't have any attack options to use when not healing. Oh and she wasn't playable till the fire temple so that may have been a factor. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
NBIceman 03/25/20 6:12:29 PM #406:	xp1337 posted... I'll say it. Eleanor too low. Top 2 character in Berseria only to Velvet. (and i am dying inside that she is losing to lloyd irving of all people, raine too) So what part(s) of Eleanor didn't I cover that raise her up so high for you? And what aspects of, say, Raine do you not agree are good? I enjoy debating this stuff, but I gotta have some actual things to respond to to do that beyond "Nah, you're wrong"! #14 - Pascal (Graces) "Ye cannot tell from whence ~~we Amarcians~~ came and whither we go or whatever!" Its a pretty well-established trope in JRPGs that if a character seems impossibly happy or full of life, its usually because theyre actually quite depressed, and the happiness is just there to disguise whatever deep emotional trauma made them that way. And theres nothing wrong with those characters (hell, theres a couple on this list still yet to drop), but it was refreshing to have someone like Pascal that was cheerful all the way through the game just because thats really how they are. Characters like that have a tendency to drive me crazy, because they can often get really grating if theyre not handled well enough, but Pascal is just so genuine that its hard not to love her. It would be annoying for most other RPG characters to say that they didnt mention to the party that ~~theyre actually a member of race thought to be extinct just because no one asked~~, but with Pascal it seems perfectly reasonable. That kind of whimsy is especially welcome in a game like Graces where the rest of the cast is so prone to brooding. Pascal never lets things get too tense. Even on the rare occasion that something gets her down (like the blowup her sister has about how much easier everything is for Pascal), she tends to perk up pretty much as soon as anyone draws attention to it, like shes just happy that they care enough to notice. And I think thats kind of the crux of her character. Shes just a straight-up people person, and theres not a whole lot of those in Tales. Cheria muses at one point that she only acts like a goofball because the party gets such a kick out of it before quickly deciding that, no, she really is just a goofball, but I feel like the truth is actually somewhere in the middle. Pascal legitimately doesnt seem to grasp just how odd she is, but shes certainly smart enough to understand that, for one reason or another, the group is happier when shes around, and that in turn makes her happy as well. And thats also endearing to me as a player, which is why shes ranked so high among characters that are much better developed. Shes just pure fun. Her Yokay! catchphrase is super cute, her aversion to bathing leads to some funny moments and skits, and shes an absolute blast (pun intended) to use in battle. She also has whats probably my favorite dynamic with Sophie in the cast. On its face, its a weird obsession, but even from the beginning its clear that she has a true big sister instinct for her as well that she takes very seriously (which makes sense considering the worship she has for Fourier). Shes the first to cover Sophies eyes when ~~Richard goes insane and starts slaughtering people~~, and later on shes moved to tears (for the only time in the game) when Sophie tells her how much she appreciates how warm she is to everyone. Its just sweet. I mentioned in Huberts write-up that their little romance subplot was just thrown together way too quick, and thats particularly obvious in her case. Its like the writers had no idea where exactly they wanted her to stand on the whole thing. She completely misunderstands ~~Huberts big confession~~ and seems completely oblivious in general, but she does show a few hints of her own. She straight up flirts with him pretty heavily in the Future Arc ending (and shes blushing while shes doing it, so its not like its just Pascal being Pascal), and shes unusually fixated on what his reaction will be to her finished Mecha-Asbel. But because the writers crammed the whole damn thing into a couple hours, none of it means anything. Its really too bad, because they had the makings of a really good pairing if it had just started earlier and gone further. It seems like the direction they were going was that she does have some feelings for him and it just doesnt consciously register to her because shes always so far off in her own little world, and I think that would have been interesting. Would have given her some room to actually develop. Alas, beginning-of-game Pascal is the same as end-of-game Pascal. I dont really hold that against her too much, though. A simple, static character isnt always a bad one, especially when theyre otherwise so likable. So she still makes it this far. TL;DR: Shes delightful through and through. If I had one critique itd be that I just wish she was a little bit more of something else, too. --- https://imgur.com/UYamul2 Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights <cite>NBIceman posted [p:936222271] in Iceman Ran... [t:78413187]...</cite> <quote>xp1337 posted... </cite> <quote>I'll say it. Eleanor too low. Top 2 character in Berseria only to Velvet. (and i am dying inside that she is losing to lloyd irving of all people, raine too)</quote>So what part(s) of Eleanor didn't I cover that raise her up so high for you? And what aspects of, say, Raine do you not agree are good? I enjoy debating this stuff, but I gotta have some actual things to respond to to do that beyond "Nah, you're wrong"! #14 - Pascal (Graces) "Ye cannot tell from whence we Amarcians came and whither we go or whatever!" Its a pretty well-established trope in JRPGs that if a character seems impossibly happy or full of life, its usually because theyre actually quite depressed, and the happiness is just there to disguise whatever deep emotional trauma made them that way. And theres nothing wrong with those characters (hell, theres a couple on this list still yet to drop), but it was refreshing to have someone like Pascal that was cheerful all the way through the game just because thats really how they are. Characters like that have a tendency to drive me crazy, because they can often get really grating if theyre not handled well enough, but Pascal is just so genuine that its hard not to love her. It would be annoying for most other RPG characters to say that they didnt mention to the party that theyre actually a member of race thought to be extinct just because no one asked, but with Pascal it seems perfectly reasonable. That kind of whimsy is especially welcome in a game like Graces where the rest of the cast is so prone to brooding. Pascal never lets things get too tense. Even on the rare occasion that something gets her down (like the blowup her sister has about how much easier everything is for Pascal), she tends to perk up pretty much as soon as anyone draws attention to it, like shes just happy that they care enough to notice. And I think thats kind of the crux of her character. Shes just a straight-up people person, and theres not a whole lot of those in Tales. Cheria muses at one point that she only acts like a goofball because the party gets such a kick out of it before quickly deciding that, no, she really is just a goofball, but I feel like the truth is actually somewhere in the middle. Pascal legitimately doesnt seem to grasp just how odd she is, but shes certainly smart enough to understand that, for one reason or another, the group is happier when shes around, and that in turn makes her happy as well. And thats also endearing to me as a player, which is why shes ranked so high among characters that are much better developed. Shes just pure fun. Her Yokay! catchphrase is super cute, her aversion to bathing leads to some funny moments and skits, and shes an absolute blast (pun intended) to use in battle. She also has whats probably my favorite dynamic with Sophie in the cast. On its face, its a weird obsession, but even from the beginning its clear that she has a true big sister instinct for her as well that she takes very seriously (which makes sense considering the worship she has for Fourier). Shes the first to cover Sophies eyes when Richard goes insane and starts slaughtering people, and later on shes moved to tears (for the only time in the game) when Sophie tells her how much she appreciates how warm she is to everyone. Its just sweet. I mentioned in Huberts write-up that their little romance subplot was just thrown together way too quick, and thats particularly obvious in her case. Its like the writers had no idea where exactly they wanted her to stand on the whole thing. She completely misunderstands Huberts big confession and seems completely oblivious in general, but she does show a few hints of her own. She straight up flirts with him pretty heavily in the Future Arc ending (and shes blushing while shes doing it, so its not like its just Pascal being Pascal), and shes unusually fixated on what his reaction will be to her finished Mecha-Asbel. But because the writers crammed the whole damn thing into a couple hours, none of it means anything. Its really too bad, because they had the makings of a really good pairing if it had just started earlier and gone further. It seems like the direction they were going was that she does have some feelings for him and it just doesnt consciously register to her because shes always so far off in her own little world, and I think that would have been interesting. Would have given her some room to actually develop. Alas, beginning-of-game Pascal is the same as end-of-game Pascal. I dont really hold that against her too much, though. A simple, static character isnt always a bad one, especially when theyre otherwise so likable. So she still makes it this far. TL;DR: Shes delightful through and through. If I had one critique itd be that I just wish she was a little bit more of something else, too. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
NBIceman 03/25/20 6:13:28 PM #407:	Tales of Graces Wrap-Up Its just letdown after letdown with you, isnt it? Missed Opportunities: The Video Game. None of Graces characters are bad or unlikable per se, but the majority have their individual arcs shoved aside with almost no time devoted to them in favor of the Asbel and Richard Friendship Show, also starring Sophie. Its interesting - the Tales series often gets lambasted for having terrible pacing, and while I think its a little overblown, there are undeniably a few games where thats a massive issue. Graces absolutely doesnt have that problem. There are very few stretches in the main story where nothing much happens, and hardly any periods of down time at all. Thats one of the reasons I like the game as much as I do, but it has the unfortunate side effect of giving the cast no room to breathe if theyre not directly involved with whatevers happening at a given time. Which theyre usually not. A lot of them only ended up as high on the list as they did because they happened to be in the game with the best battle system in the series and their playstyles at least made them fun gameplay-wise. If you took that gameplay out of the equation, the cast as a whole would easily be one of the weaker offerings in the series. They might be regardless, all things considered. One thing I will say, though, is that the Graces party is greater than the sum of its parts. From a strict entertainment perspective, this is the game with the best lineup of skits in Tales, which creates a feeling of awesome chemistry. It really drives home the point that theyre mostly all likeable characters that just arent always very interesting when all is said and done. `And they were never heard from again...` --- https://imgur.com/UYamul2 Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights <cite>NBIceman posted [p:936222326] in Iceman Ran... [t:78413187]...</cite> <quote>Tales of Graces Wrap-Up Its just letdown after letdown with you, isnt it? Missed Opportunities: The Video Game. None of Graces characters are bad or unlikable per se, but the majority have their individual arcs shoved aside with almost no time devoted to them in favor of the Asbel and Richard Friendship Show, also starring Sophie. Its interesting - the Tales series often gets lambasted for having terrible pacing, and while I think its a little overblown, there are undeniably a few games where thats a massive issue. Graces absolutely doesnt have that problem. There are very few stretches in the main story where nothing much happens, and hardly any periods of down time at all. Thats one of the reasons I like the game as much as I do, but it has the unfortunate side effect of giving the cast no room to breathe if theyre not directly involved with whatevers happening at a given time. Which theyre usually not. A lot of them only ended up as high on the list as they did because they happened to be in the game with the best battle system in the series and their playstyles at least made them fun gameplay-wise. If you took that gameplay out of the equation, the cast as a whole would easily be one of the weaker offerings in the series. They might be regardless, all things considered. One thing I will say, though, is that the Graces party is greater than the sum of its parts. From a strict entertainment perspective, this is the game with the best lineup of skits in Tales, which creates a feeling of awesome chemistry. It really drives home the point that theyre mostly all likeable characters that just arent always very interesting when all is said and done. And they were never heard from again... </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Smash Master 03/25/20 6:29:23 PM #408:	I'm pretty sure Pascal absolutely did understand what ~~Hubert's big confession~~ really meant. She just plays it off insanely subtly because she wasn't expecting him to be so blunt about it. Right after he does the thing, she ends up blushing for a little bit before she goes all space-case on him, but the bigger tell is the fact that Mecha Asbel blows up right after he leaves the scene; she may usually be so good at that sort of thing, but when something like ~~a very blunt love confession~~ throws off her concentration.... well, boom. --- This is a sig, woo. http://z7.invisionfree.com/If_They_Were/index.php?act=idx <cite>Smash Master posted [p:936223151] in Iceman Ran... [t:78413187]...</cite> <quote>I'm pretty sure Pascal absolutely did understand what Hubert's big confession really meant. She just plays it off insanely subtly because she wasn't expecting him to be so blunt about it. Right after he does the thing, she ends up blushing for a little bit before she goes all space-case on him, but the bigger tell is the fact that Mecha Asbel blows up right after he leaves the scene; she may usually be so good at that sort of thing, but when something like a very blunt love confession throws off her concentration.... well, boom. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MysteriousStan 03/25/20 6:45:44 PM #409:	I think Graces was the first game I didn't main the main character cause Pascal was so much fun to play as. <cite>MysteriousStan posted [p:936223991] in Iceman Ran... [t:78413187]...</cite> <quote>I think Graces was the first game I didn't main the main character cause Pascal was so much fun to play as. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
shadowysea07 03/26/20 12:47:48 AM #410:	MysteriousStan posted... I think Graces was the first game I didn't main the main character For me that was abyss. Though graces I do like Asbel less than some of graces cast. Pascal for her shotgun artes (I don't use her as a caster much) Cheria for knives (again not much casting going on), Richard the main mage I used Ironically since he's a pretty good swordsman, and huberts guns are just so fricken awesome. It makes me so very sad that all the other gun users are so mediocre compared to him. It really shows what A Maria or Yuna tier gunner can do. Only way hubert could be more god tier was if they had given him ravens love shot. --- The real treasure is the skeletons we made along the way. A battle where my skeleton is in my body and enemies skeletons no longer are is a good battle <cite>shadowysea07 posted [p:936240029] in Iceman Ran... [t:78413187]...</cite> <quote>MysteriousStan posted... </cite> <quote>I think Graces was the first game I didn't main the main character</quote>For me that was abyss. Though graces I do like Asbel less than some of graces cast. Pascal for her shotgun artes (I don't use her as a caster much) Cheria for knives (again not much casting going on), Richard the main mage I used Ironically since he's a pretty good swordsman, and huberts guns are just so fricken awesome. It makes me so very sad that all the other gun users are so mediocre compared to him. It really shows what A Maria or Yuna tier gunner can do. Only way hubert could be more god tier was if they had given him ravens love shot. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
NBIceman 03/26/20 3:51:44 AM #411:	Last of the night and the tier. Apparently it's gonna be a big relief for some of y'all. #13 - Lloyd Irving (Symphonia) How can we go on a quest to regenerate the world if we can't even save the people standing right in front of us?! My favorite book of all time is Steinbecks East of Eden. I mention this because theres a quote in there that I think fits very well with Lloyd - And now that you dont have to be perfect, you can be good. The crux of Lloyds character development is learning that you yourself dont necessarily have to be perfect yourself to work towards a perfect world. At the beginning of Symphonia, hes the strongest fighter in the village, a kid full of confidence. Then he promptly gets shown up by Kratos and, in a reckless effort to reassert himself as a badass, ~~gets into a skirmish at the Human Ranch and inadvertently causes the conflict that burns down Iselia~~. The first time he ever has to face up to his actions having consequences, theyre massive, and its that guilt as much as anything that leads him to commit to a path where no innocent person ever has to suffer again if he has anything at all to say about it. Im not breaking any new ground by calling Lloyd an idealist. He even gets a title for it. He doesnt just want to find a solution to the worlds problems, he wants to find THE solution to all the worlds problems. He wants to fix everything at the same time so that it never has to be fixed again. But to reduce him only to that label is to ignore a good deal of nuance. He knows in the back of his mind that there maybe (probably) isnt such a thing as the ideal world he seeks and even admits once that his way of thinking can be hard on him, but he persists in it simply because that is what he has chosen to do. He chooses to believe that things will all work out, and after a few times hearing him say that, I always start to believe it too. His earnestness is contagious. Hes a steadfast believer in life surrounded by a party of borderline suicidal people obsessed with sacrificing themselves for some greater good or misguided atonement. He seeks atonement as much as anyone, but he realizes that the best way to accomplish that is for the people with the willpower to make such change to keep on living. And that slowly rubs off on the other characters. They change for the better because of his influence. Its not even like hes always easy for him - the best skit in the game is the one where ~~he struggles over a split second where he chose the world over Colette~~. That feels like the moment where he accepts that hell never be a perfect person, and by so doing learns how to truly become a good one. I dont want to spend a lot of words on this, but its also unfair that Lloyd gets treated as a complete moron so often by fans. Book dumb, sure. But hes relatively clever and quick on his feet, and theres more examples of that than just the coffee thing. Hes perceptive enough to be the one to peg that Zelos isnt nearly the goof-off he pretends to be and to figure out Emils dumbass plan at the end of the sequel. Speaking of Dawn, I cant put it off any longer. Lloyds a bit of a special case there. When Dawn hurts Symphonia characters, its usually by giving them one or two especially big problems. Lloyds portrayal in Dawn, on the other hand, isnt so much a targeted character assassination as a series of small missteps over and over and over and over again. Giving him that incredibly sweet story with that Paul kid and his mom and then turning it into a joke by just making it all a setup for canonizing that Lloyd has a thing for older women. Committing to a whole bait-and-switch with the impostor storyline when no player would actually believe hes going around killing random people. Trying to have their cake and eat it too by making him a recurring part of the main story but turning him into an aloof loner because of shoehorned plot reasons so he doesnt join the party for most of the game. Its just so tiring. Dawn cant even do an obvious cash grab correctly. Theyd have been better served making him into an almost mythical figure and letting him show up for the first time right at the end - it wouldve solved every problem. Symphonia was my first Tales game, and Lloyd was thus the first Tales character I ever played as, so I have a big soft spot for him as a fighter. He controls super slick, can dish out a ton of damage quickly, and has a fun, if fairly basic, lineup of artes. He stands out in the clunky Symphonia battle system as the only experience I can confidently describe as smooth, and I have a hard time playing through the game using anyone else for long periods of time. TL;DR: I understand why a lot of people dont like Lloyd, I really do. The well-meaning idiot as a hero has been done before and done since and will be done again, and he really leans into it at times. But I dont think thats enough to outweigh how well done his development is. He starts with some very firm beliefs about the world and manages to grow alongside it without ever really abandoning them. If not for Dawns inability to get out of its own way, he mightve even managed to just squeak into the top ten. Unfortunately, that game exists, so he drops here instead, just short of the next tier of characters that dont have his baggage. --- https://imgur.com/UYamul2 Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights <cite>NBIceman posted [p:936244689] in Iceman Ran... [t:78413187]...</cite> <quote>Last of the night and the tier. Apparently it's gonna be a big relief for some of y'all. #13 - Lloyd Irving (Symphonia) How can we go on a quest to regenerate the world if we can't even save the people standing right in front of us?! My favorite book of all time is Steinbecks East of Eden. I mention this because theres a quote in there that I think fits very well with Lloyd - And now that you dont have to be perfect, you can be good. The crux of Lloyds character development is learning that you yourself dont necessarily have to be perfect yourself to work towards a perfect world. At the beginning of Symphonia, hes the strongest fighter in the village, a kid full of confidence. Then he promptly gets shown up by Kratos and, in a reckless effort to reassert himself as a badass, gets into a skirmish at the Human Ranch and inadvertently causes the conflict that burns down Iselia. The first time he ever has to face up to his actions having consequences, theyre massive, and its that guilt as much as anything that leads him to commit to a path where no innocent person ever has to suffer again if he has anything at all to say about it. Im not breaking any new ground by calling Lloyd an idealist. He even gets a title for it. He doesnt just want to find a solution to the worlds problems, he wants to find THE solution to all the worlds problems. He wants to fix everything at the same time so that it never has to be fixed again. But to reduce him only to that label is to ignore a good deal of nuance. He knows in the back of his mind that there maybe (probably) isnt such a thing as the ideal world he seeks and even admits once that his way of thinking can be hard on him, but he persists in it simply because that is what he has chosen to do. He chooses to believe that things will all work out, and after a few times hearing him say that, I always start to believe it too. His earnestness is contagious. Hes a steadfast believer in life surrounded by a party of borderline suicidal people obsessed with sacrificing themselves for some greater good or misguided atonement. He seeks atonement as much as anyone, but he realizes that the best way to accomplish that is for the people with the willpower to make such change to keep on living. And that slowly rubs off on the other characters. They change for the better because of his influence. Its not even like hes always easy for him - the best skit in the game is the one where he struggles over a split second where he chose the world over Colette. That feels like the moment where he accepts that hell never be a perfect person, and by so doing learns how to truly become a good one. I dont want to spend a lot of words on this, but its also unfair that Lloyd gets treated as a complete moron so often by fans. Book dumb, sure. But hes relatively clever and quick on his feet, and theres more examples of that than just the coffee thing. Hes perceptive enough to be the one to peg that Zelos isnt nearly the goof-off he pretends to be and to figure out Emils dumbass plan at the end of the sequel. Speaking of Dawn, I cant put it off any longer. Lloyds a bit of a special case there. When Dawn hurts Symphonia characters, its usually by giving them one or two especially big problems. Lloyds portrayal in Dawn, on the other hand, isnt so much a targeted character assassination as a series of small missteps over and over and over and over again. Giving him that incredibly sweet story with that Paul kid and his mom and then turning it into a joke by just making it all a setup for canonizing that Lloyd has a thing for older women. Committing to a whole bait-and-switch with the impostor storyline when no player would actually believe hes going around killing random people. Trying to have their cake and eat it too by making him a recurring part of the main story but turning him into an aloof loner because of shoehorned plot reasons so he doesnt join the party for most of the game. Its just so tiring. Dawn cant even do an obvious cash grab correctly. Theyd have been better served making him into an almost mythical figure and letting him show up for the first time right at the end - it wouldve solved every problem. Symphonia was my first Tales game, and Lloyd was thus the first Tales character I ever played as, so I have a big soft spot for him as a fighter. He controls super slick, can dish out a ton of damage quickly, and has a fun, if fairly basic, lineup of artes. He stands out in the clunky Symphonia battle system as the only experience I can confidently describe as smooth, and I have a hard time playing through the game using anyone else for long periods of time. TL;DR: I understand why a lot of people dont like Lloyd, I really do. The well-meaning idiot as a hero has been done before and done since and will be done again, and he really leans into it at times. But I dont think thats enough to outweigh how well done his development is. He starts with some very firm beliefs about the world and manages to grow alongside it without ever really abandoning them. If not for Dawns inability to get out of its own way, he mightve even managed to just squeak into the top ten. Unfortunately, that game exists, so he drops here instead, just short of the next tier of characters that dont have his baggage. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
NBIceman 03/26/20 3:51:47 AM #412:	Just two tiers to go. Tomorrow's likely gonna be a Skit day. If one sword has a power of 100, then using two will make it 200, right? 13. Lloyd Irving (Symphonia) 14. Pascal (Graces) 15. Raine Sage (Symphonia) 16. Eleanor Hume (Berseria) 17. Malik Caesar (Graces) 18. Sheena Fujibayashi (Symphonia) 19. Chalcedony Akerman (Hearts) 20. Natalia Luzu Kimlasca-Lanvaldear (Abyss) 21. Laphicet (Berseria) 22. Rita Mordio (Vesperia) 23. Sophie (Graces) 24. Rowen Ilbert (Xillia) 25. Milla Maxwell (Xillia) 26. Rutee Katrea (Destiny) What could this mean for the tournament?! ...Oh screw this. I'm outta here! 27. Eizen (Berseria) 28. Farah Oersted (Eternia) 29. Richard Barona (Graces) 30. Repede (Vesperia) 31. Presea Combatir (Symphonia) 32. Reid Hershel (Eternia) 33. Chester Burklight (Phantasia) 34. Stahn Aileron (Destiny) 35. Gaius (Xillia) 36. Muzet (Xillia) Ive traveled back in time from next week. Please stop throwing monsters at us. 37. Estellise Sidos Heurassein (Vesperia) 38. Alisha Diphda (Zestiria) 39. Rokurou Rangetsu (Berseria) 40. Will Raynard (Legendia) 41. Keele Zeibel (Eternia) 42. Zaveid (Zestiria) 43. Garr Kelvin (Destiny) 44. Kor Meteor (Hearts) 45. Judith (Vesperia) 46. Ludger Kresnik (Xillia) 47. Mary Argent (Destiny) 48. Leia Rolando (Xillia) 49. Claus F. Lester (Phantasia) 50. Flynn Scifo (Vesperia) 51. Anise Tatlin (Abyss) 52. Kratos Aurion (Symphonia) 53. Ines Lorenzen (Hearts) "You're weak! You're a hack! You're wack." 54. Senel Coolidge (Legendia) 55. Rassius Luine (Eternia) 56. Max (Eternia) 57. Norma Beatty (Legendia) 58. Chloe Valens (Legendia) 59. Hubert Oswell (Graces) 60. Karyl Sheeden (Destiny) 61. Arche Klein (Phantasia) 62. Gall Gruner (Hearts) 63. Karol Capel (Vesperia) 64. Asbel Lhant (Graces) 65. Edna (Zestiria) 66. ~~Fractured Milla~~ (Xillia) "No, no, no! Horrible! Terrible! Contrived! What kind of shoddy performance is this? Youre an eyesore! Get out of my sight! 67. Regal Bryant (Symphonia) 68. Kohaku Hearts (Hearts) 69. Cress Albane (Phantasia) 70. Elize Lutus (Xillia) 71. Cheria Barnes (Graces) 72. Lailah (Zestiria) 73. Kunzite (Hearts) 74. Philia Felice (Destiny) 75. Genis Sage (Symphonia) 76. Meredy (Eternia) 77. Mint Adenade (Phantasia) 78. Moses Sandor (Legendia) 79. Dezel (Zestiria) 80. Colette Brunel (Symphonia) 81. Hisui Hearts (Hearts) The reaper and a daemon are shaking their heads at this overwrought monstrosity. Intrinsic worth, zero." 82. Chat (Eternia) 83. Grune (Legendia) 84. Mikleo (Zestiria) 85. Chelsea Torn (Destiny) 86. Patty Fleur (Vesperia) 87. Sorey (Zestiria) 88. Leon Magnus (Destiny) 89. Bruiser Khang (Destiny) 90. Emil Castagnier (Symphonia) 91. Jay (Legendia) 92. Suzu Fujibayashi (Phantasia) 93. Marta Lualdi (Symphonia) 94. Rose (Zestiria) 95. Shirley Fennes (Legendia) --- https://imgur.com/UYamul2 Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights <cite>NBIceman posted [p:936244691] in Iceman Ran... [t:78413187]...</cite> <quote>Just two tiers to go. Tomorrow's likely gonna be a Skit day. If one sword has a power of 100, then using two will make it 200, right? 13. Lloyd Irving (Symphonia) 14. Pascal (Graces) 15. Raine Sage (Symphonia) 16. Eleanor Hume (Berseria) 17. Malik Caesar (Graces) 18. Sheena Fujibayashi (Symphonia) 19. Chalcedony Akerman (Hearts) 20. Natalia Luzu Kimlasca-Lanvaldear (Abyss) 21. Laphicet (Berseria) 22. Rita Mordio (Vesperia) 23. Sophie (Graces) 24. Rowen Ilbert (Xillia) 25. Milla Maxwell (Xillia) 26. Rutee Katrea (Destiny) What could this mean for the tournament?! ...Oh screw this. I'm outta here! 27. Eizen (Berseria) 28. Farah Oersted (Eternia) 29. Richard Barona (Graces) 30. Repede (Vesperia) 31. Presea Combatir (Symphonia) 32. Reid Hershel (Eternia) 33. Chester Burklight (Phantasia) 34. Stahn Aileron (Destiny) 35. Gaius (Xillia) 36. Muzet (Xillia) Ive traveled back in time from next week. Please stop throwing monsters at us. 37. Estellise Sidos Heurassein (Vesperia) 38. Alisha Diphda (Zestiria) 39. Rokurou Rangetsu (Berseria) 40. Will Raynard (Legendia) 41. Keele Zeibel (Eternia) 42. Zaveid (Zestiria) 43. Garr Kelvin (Destiny) 44. Kor Meteor (Hearts) 45. Judith (Vesperia) 46. Ludger Kresnik (Xillia) 47. Mary Argent (Destiny) 48. Leia Rolando (Xillia) 49. Claus F. Lester (Phantasia) 50. Flynn Scifo (Vesperia) 51. Anise Tatlin (Abyss) 52. Kratos Aurion (Symphonia) 53. Ines Lorenzen (Hearts) "You're weak! You're a hack! You're wack." 54. Senel Coolidge (Legendia) 55. Rassius Luine (Eternia) 56. Max (Eternia) 57. Norma Beatty (Legendia) 58. Chloe Valens (Legendia) 59. Hubert Oswell (Graces) 60. Karyl Sheeden (Destiny) 61. Arche Klein (Phantasia) 62. Gall Gruner (Hearts) 63. Karol Capel (Vesperia) 64. Asbel Lhant (Graces) 65. Edna (Zestiria) 66. Fractured Milla (Xillia) "No, no, no! Horrible! Terrible! Contrived! What kind of shoddy performance is this? Youre an eyesore! Get out of my sight! 67. Regal Bryant (Symphonia) 68. Kohaku Hearts (Hearts) 69. Cress Albane (Phantasia) 70. Elize Lutus (Xillia) 71. Cheria Barnes (Graces) 72. Lailah (Zestiria) 73. Kunzite (Hearts) 74. Philia Felice (Destiny) 75. Genis Sage (Symphonia) 76. Meredy (Eternia) 77. Mint Adenade (Phantasia) 78. Moses Sandor (Legendia) 79. Dezel (Zestiria) 80. Colette Brunel (Symphonia) 81. Hisui Hearts (Hearts) The reaper and a daemon are shaking their heads at this overwrought monstrosity. Intrinsic worth, zero." 82. Chat (Eternia) 83. Grune (Legendia) 84. Mikleo (Zestiria) 85. Chelsea Torn (Destiny) 86. Patty Fleur (Vesperia) 87. Sorey (Zestiria) 88. Leon Magnus (Destiny) 89. Bruiser Khang (Destiny) 90. Emil Castagnier (Symphonia) 91. Jay (Legendia) 92. Suzu Fujibayashi (Phantasia) 93. Marta Lualdi (Symphonia) 94. Rose (Zestiria) 95. Shirley Fennes (Legendia) </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
shadowysea07 03/26/20 3:00:11 PM #413:	NBIceman posted... dont want to spend a lot of words on this, but its also unfair that Lloyd gets treated as a complete moron so often by fans. Book dumb, sure. But hes relatively clever and quick on his feet, and theres more examples of that than just the coffee thing. Hes perceptive enough to be the one to peg that Zelos isnt nearly the goof-off he pretends to be and to figure out Emils dumbass plan at the end of the sequel. That and people forget about the setting in the game. School is almost a complete waste of time past the bare basics. And Lloyd already knows and how to go about the career path he is going to be taking as a Craftsman. Most of the kids will be farmers or run a general store or such. Really what sort of career could Genis expect to have? Become a teacher possibly in another city or town? Let's also note that due to Bible thumping Lloyd is somehow the only person that questions why the world works the way it does. So despite the others being educated they are far less intelligent than Lloyd at the end of the day. --- The real treasure is the skeletons we made along the way. A battle where my skeleton is in my body and enemies skeletons no longer are is a good battle <cite>shadowysea07 posted [p:936269446] in Iceman Ran... [t:78413187]...</cite> <quote>NBIceman posted... </cite> <quote>dont want to spend a lot of words on this, but its also unfair that Lloyd gets treated as a complete moron so often by fans. Book dumb, sure. But hes relatively clever and quick on his feet, and theres more examples of that than just the coffee thing. Hes perceptive enough to be the one to peg that Zelos isnt nearly the goof-off he pretends to be and to figure out Emils dumbass plan at the end of the sequel.</quote>That and people forget about the setting in the game. School is almost a complete waste of time past the bare basics. And Lloyd already knows and how to go about the career path he is going to be taking as a Craftsman. Most of the kids will be farmers or run a general store or such. Really what sort of career could Genis expect to have? Become a teacher possibly in another city or town? Let's also note that due to Bible thumping Lloyd is somehow the only person that questions why the world works the way it does. So despite the others being educated they are far less intelligent than Lloyd at the end of the day. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
NBIceman 03/27/20 3:20:23 AM #414:	Alright, I lied, Skit tomorrow. >_> --- https://imgur.com/UYamul2 Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights <cite>NBIceman posted [p:936305261] in Iceman Ran... [t:78413187]...</cite> <quote>Alright, I lied, Skit tomorrow. >_> </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
NBIceman 03/28/20 5:37:42 AM #415:	It's still technically "tomorrow," shut up. <_< Skit - Top 10 NPCs/Supporting Characters/Whatever you want to call them... 10. Grimoirh (Berseria) I imagine if everyone lived to be 5000 years old, theyd probably be a lot like Grim here. She just wants to be left alone to live a calm, uneventful life, and she just has no time or care for anyones bullshit, which leads to a great role in a Berseria that, to varying degrees and in various ways, is completely ruled by their emotions and is very used to other people having at least some sort of reaction to that. The relationship she develops with Laphicet is really sweet, though, and she does a great job as the one delivering exposition for some of the more complex subjects in the game. I never got tired of listening to her puzzle things out in skits. 9. Dirk (Symphonia) The world would be a hell of a good place if everyone had a dad like Dirk. Hes kind but firm, lets Lloyd make his own decisions but wants to make sure he understands the responsibility that brings, and does his small part to aid people wherever he can, happy with his place in the world. He also gets to beat the crap out of some monsters in Dawn. Just a good guy. Every scene hes in feels so serene and enjoyable. 8. Fourier (Graces) She may be endlessly tortured that Pascal will always be better than her, but she loves her anyway. I love the relationship those two have, and despite those feelings of inferiority, Fourier damn sure comes through in a big way at times. She can be hilarious, too. Her SHUT UP shriek to Pascals singing in the Mecha-Asbel sidequest is the best-delivered line in the whole damn game - how did this same VA also put in the performance that was Xillia 1 Elize? Love her design, too. Im not a big waifu guy, but yeah. 7. Emperor Peony IX (Abyss) This dude is a riot. Notably the only character that ever manages to get even the slightest bit of the upper hand on Jade, but its also not like he always has his number. Their banter is fantastic, and his interactions with the rest of the party are great too. His more serious moments are also really nice. Telling Luke he wont blame him if Luke decides to run from the events they discuss for the Tower of Rem, for example. And his backstory with Nephry that was done in manga form is incredible - highly recommended if you enjoy the Abyss worldbuilding. 6. Nova (Xillia) Xillia 2 is depressing, and its debt mechanic can be a real drag. Nova softens the blow of both of those things considerably. Shes so upbeat and lovable that the nihilistic tone of the game almost doesnt seem so absolute sometimes, and her interjections for the debt stuff can be legitimately funny. Its just a shame that she has such awful timing, and it hurts when shes just super down by the end of the game. Really feels like the signal that there isnt a happy ending coming for anyone. ~~Also, Nova is the best Ludger ship, don't at me.~~ 5. Tenebrae (Symphonia) I mean, everybody loves this guy. Hes a fantastic troll, but some of his motivations are interesting enough that hes also not one-note. I have to admit I didnt find him quite as funny on subsequent Dawn playthroughs as I did the first time around, so I cant really put him higher, but hes definitely still great, and part of that was probably because everything else that happens in Dawn just makes me want to shoot myself. Tenebie is certainly the best thing that came out of that miserable game. --- https://imgur.com/UYamul2 Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights <cite>NBIceman posted [p:936362912] in Iceman Ran... [t:78413187]...</cite> <quote>It's still technically "tomorrow," shut up. <_< Skit - Top 10 NPCs/Supporting Characters/Whatever you want to call them... 10. Grimoirh (Berseria) I imagine if everyone lived to be 5000 years old, theyd probably be a lot like Grim here. She just wants to be left alone to live a calm, uneventful life, and she just has no time or care for anyones bullshit, which leads to a great role in a Berseria that, to varying degrees and in various ways, is completely ruled by their emotions and is very used to other people having at least some sort of reaction to that. The relationship she develops with Laphicet is really sweet, though, and she does a great job as the one delivering exposition for some of the more complex subjects in the game. I never got tired of listening to her puzzle things out in skits. 9. Dirk (Symphonia) The world would be a hell of a good place if everyone had a dad like Dirk. Hes kind but firm, lets Lloyd make his own decisions but wants to make sure he understands the responsibility that brings, and does his small part to aid people wherever he can, happy with his place in the world. He also gets to beat the crap out of some monsters in Dawn. Just a good guy. Every scene hes in feels so serene and enjoyable. 8. Fourier (Graces) She may be endlessly tortured that Pascal will always be better than her, but she loves her anyway. I love the relationship those two have, and despite those feelings of inferiority, Fourier damn sure comes through in a big way at times. She can be hilarious, too. Her SHUT UP shriek to Pascals singing in the Mecha-Asbel sidequest is the best-delivered line in the whole damn game - how did this same VA also put in the performance that was Xillia 1 Elize? Love her design, too. Im not a big waifu guy, but yeah. 7. Emperor Peony IX (Abyss) This dude is a riot. Notably the only character that ever manages to get even the slightest bit of the upper hand on Jade, but its also not like he always has his number. Their banter is fantastic, and his interactions with the rest of the party are great too. His more serious moments are also really nice. Telling Luke he wont blame him if Luke decides to run from the events they discuss for the Tower of Rem, for example. And his backstory with Nephry that was done in manga form is incredible - highly recommended if you enjoy the Abyss worldbuilding. 6. Nova (Xillia) Xillia 2 is depressing, and its debt mechanic can be a real drag. Nova softens the blow of both of those things considerably. Shes so upbeat and lovable that the nihilistic tone of the game almost doesnt seem so absolute sometimes, and her interjections for the debt stuff can be legitimately funny. Its just a shame that she has such awful timing, and it hurts when shes just super down by the end of the game. Really feels like the signal that there isnt a happy ending coming for anyone. Also, Nova is the best Ludger ship, don't at me. 5. Tenebrae (Symphonia) I mean, everybody loves this guy. Hes a fantastic troll, but some of his motivations are interesting enough that hes also not one-note. I have to admit I didnt find him quite as funny on subsequent Dawn playthroughs as I did the first time around, so I cant really put him higher, but hes definitely still great, and part of that was probably because everything else that happens in Dawn just makes me want to shoot myself. Tenebie is certainly the best thing that came out of that miserable game. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
NBIceman 03/28/20 5:37:46 AM #416:	4. Don Whitehorse (Vesperia) How cool was this son of a bitch? I will never not love the trope of the old badass that can still take down anyone on the planet if hes so inclined. And I also always love the story of guys like that ~~being brought down by wild events in the world around him that, despite how smart they actually are, are completely out of their control.~~ His attempt to give ~~Yeager~~ what he deserved first was just icing on the cake. The relationships he develops with Yuri and Karol are well done, too, and the fact that ~~his death~~ is what really kicks Yuris development into gear gives him a really interesting story role. Sometimes I wish wed gotten to see more of him, but on the other hand, he was pretty much perfect for what he was. ~~At least we got to fight him in the Definitive Edition.~~ 3. Julius Kresnik (Xillia) Love or hate Xillia 2, I think most folks would be hard pressed to say that game didnt nail the big emotional moments its story was built on. X2 flat-out doesnt work if the relationship between Ludger and Julius isnt perfect, and even though Ludger himself was a swing and a miss, it was. The older brother makes an excellent ideal of strength to strive for while still maintaining a nice air of mystery - you really cant tell exactly what his goals are or whether hes even on your side until fairly late in the game. And then he dies, and like I said, they just nail it. The brief glimpse of his sad but proud smile during the battle as he closes his eyes and waits for the last blow, his immediate awareness and calm acceptance in the Fractured Dimension where the deeds actually done, Ludgers silent screaming, all capped off by Rollo giving the saddest meow you ever heard from a cat. Xillia 2 had its flaws, but damned if it didnt get its most important NPC so, so right. 2. Ion (Abyss) The different sides we get of the whole idea of ~~being a replica~~ in Abysss world are all fascinating, and Ions is no exception. A lot of the time, it doesnt really seem to bother him all that much, and it feels like hes more or less content with the good he can do for the world in his role as Fon Master, but seeing how he speaks and behaves during the first half of the game on replays of the game reveal that hes got a helping of self-loathing almost as big as Syncs - it just manifests differently. He feels like his status as a replacement precludes him for really doing anything but what others tell him to, and even when he does try to strike out on his own, he always lets someone else actually take the lead. Meeting Luke changes him. The outright defiance Luke shows toward everyone and everything before he learns what he is shocks Ion, who probably thought ~~the very idea of a replica asserting himself so~~ was impossible, and then the devotion Luke shows toward ~~overcoming the circumstances of his existence and trying to become a better person~~ just inspires him further. Late-game Ion is almost unrecognizable: pulling rank when he has to, all but threatening country monarchs with the Orders influence, even snarking at people sometimes. But he never loses his kindness. ~~His ability to be something so different from what the original Ion was long before Luke did the same thing is pretty cool - he just didnt realize it.~~ And then his death, obviously, is heartbreaking, especially considering he even mentions how theres still replacements for him. Turns out he never quite got over that inferiority complex after all, and thats the real shame. But in his last moments, hes still thinking of other people, saving Tear and even just reading the Score in the first place when he knew itd kill him. Great character. 1. Peridot Hamilton (Hearts) Like Tenebrae and Ion, Peridot and Pyrox have a leg up on a lot of other NPCs in the series by virtue of all the extra time they get to interact with the party in their travels alongside them. The development of their relationship with Chalcedony is a big reason he ended up as high as he did on the main ranking. Pyrox is pretty solid in his own right, but Peridot? I think I like her more than 75% of the playable characters in the series. Shes endlessly entertaining, pretty well developed, and even gets a boost from being the center of a whole series of sub-events dealing with her old orphanage. Shes even got a nice design and a pretty fun combat style. But what really puts her over the top is her eventual death scene. The delusion she channels to get Chal to finally leave her and Pyrox behind, even if it was halfway faked, is among the most heartbreaking moments in the entire series. I still dont know where Hearts pulled that scene from - its not exactly the best-written game in the franchise - but Im sure glad for it, because its really one of the most memorable things in that entry. Just a fantastic character. --- https://imgur.com/UYamul2 Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights <cite>NBIceman posted [p:936362914] in Iceman Ran... [t:78413187]...</cite> <quote>4. Don Whitehorse (Vesperia) How cool was this son of a bitch? I will never not love the trope of the old badass that can still take down anyone on the planet if hes so inclined. And I also always love the story of guys like that being brought down by wild events in the world around him that, despite how smart they actually are, are completely out of their control. His attempt to give Yeager what he deserved first was just icing on the cake. The relationships he develops with Yuri and Karol are well done, too, and the fact that his death is what really kicks Yuris development into gear gives him a really interesting story role. Sometimes I wish wed gotten to see more of him, but on the other hand, he was pretty much perfect for what he was. At least we got to fight him in the Definitive Edition. 3. Julius Kresnik (Xillia) Love or hate Xillia 2, I think most folks would be hard pressed to say that game didnt nail the big emotional moments its story was built on. X2 flat-out doesnt work if the relationship between Ludger and Julius isnt perfect, and even though Ludger himself was a swing and a miss, it was. The older brother makes an excellent ideal of strength to strive for while still maintaining a nice air of mystery - you really cant tell exactly what his goals are or whether hes even on your side until fairly late in the game. And then he dies, and like I said, they just nail it. The brief glimpse of his sad but proud smile during the battle as he closes his eyes and waits for the last blow, his immediate awareness and calm acceptance in the Fractured Dimension where the deeds actually done, Ludgers silent screaming, all capped off by Rollo giving the saddest meow you ever heard from a cat. Xillia 2 had its flaws, but damned if it didnt get its most important NPC so, so right. 2. Ion (Abyss) The different sides we get of the whole idea of being a replica in Abysss world are all fascinating, and Ions is no exception. A lot of the time, it doesnt really seem to bother him all that much, and it feels like hes more or less content with the good he can do for the world in his role as Fon Master, but seeing how he speaks and behaves during the first half of the game on replays of the game reveal that hes got a helping of self-loathing almost as big as Syncs - it just manifests differently. He feels like his status as a replacement precludes him for really doing anything but what others tell him to, and even when he does try to strike out on his own, he always lets someone else actually take the lead. Meeting Luke changes him. The outright defiance Luke shows toward everyone and everything before he learns what he is shocks Ion, who probably thought the very idea of a replica asserting himself so was impossible, and then the devotion Luke shows toward overcoming the circumstances of his existence and trying to become a better person just inspires him further. Late-game Ion is almost unrecognizable: pulling rank when he has to, all but threatening country monarchs with the Orders influence, even snarking at people sometimes. But he never loses his kindness. His ability to be something so different from what the original Ion was long before Luke did the same thing is pretty cool - he just didnt realize it. And then his death, obviously, is heartbreaking, especially considering he even mentions how theres still replacements for him. Turns out he never quite got over that inferiority complex after all, and thats the real shame. But in his last moments, hes still thinking of other people, saving Tear and even just reading the Score in the first place when he knew itd kill him. Great character. 1. Peridot Hamilton (Hearts) Like Tenebrae and Ion, Peridot and Pyrox have a leg up on a lot of other NPCs in the series by virtue of all the extra time they get to interact with the party in their travels alongside them. The development of their relationship with Chalcedony is a big reason he ended up as high as he did on the main ranking. Pyrox is pretty solid in his own right, but Peridot? I think I like her more than 75% of the playable characters in the series. Shes endlessly entertaining, pretty well developed, and even gets a boost from being the center of a whole series of sub-events dealing with her old orphanage. Shes even got a nice design and a pretty fun combat style. But what really puts her over the top is her eventual death scene. The delusion she channels to get Chal to finally leave her and Pyrox behind, even if it was halfway faked, is among the most heartbreaking moments in the entire series. I still dont know where Hearts pulled that scene from - its not exactly the best-written game in the franchise - but Im sure glad for it, because its really one of the most memorable things in that entry. Just a fantastic character. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
xp1337 03/28/20 11:46:46 AM #417:	aww yeah Nova appreciation that's way too rare, she's great! Ion and Julius are great picks for the Top 3 as well. Don't agree with Fourier (Poisson was the better "named after math" person IIRC but I doubt she'd be in the Top 10 as well.) The biggest snub though? Without a shadow of a doubt: ~~White Turtlez~~. Who also doubles as another "character that was in both Zestiria and Berseria." --- xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out? <cite>xp1337 posted [p:936371217] in Iceman Ran... [t:78413187]...</cite> <quote>aww yeah Nova appreciation that's way too rare, she's great! Ion and Julius are great picks for the Top 3 as well. Don't agree with Fourier (Poisson was the better "named after math" person IIRC but I doubt she'd be in the Top 10 as well.) The biggest snub though? Without a shadow of a doubt: White Turtlez. Who also doubles as another "character that was in both Zestiria and Berseria." </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
shadowysea07 03/28/20 5:32:49 PM #418:	I imagine she's not appreciated because the debt mechanic was ill conceived and makes her insufferable. --- The real treasure is the skeletons we made along the way. A battle where my skeleton is in my body and enemies skeletons no longer are is a good battle <cite>shadowysea07 posted [p:936387349] in Iceman Ran... [t:78413187]...</cite> <quote>I imagine she's not appreciated because the debt mechanic was ill conceived and makes her insufferable. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
xp1337 03/28/20 8:21:13 PM #419:	nova did nothing wrong --- xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out? <cite>xp1337 posted [p:936395928] in Iceman Ran... [t:78413187]...</cite> <quote>nova did nothing wrong </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
NBIceman 03/28/20 10:22:23 PM #420:	Nova did indeed do nothing wrong. My hot take is that even the debt mechanic itself gets more hate than it deserves. Anyway, we've officially reached the point in this list where every elimination cuts me to my very soul, so just know when your favorite character goes down that I'm hurting just as much as you. #12 - Tear Grants (Abyss) Hypothesizing about not having been born is meaningless. You're living your own life. Experiences that only you know. Feelings that only you feel. Don't deny them. Youre here. The wonderfully named Mystearica Aura Fende is such an endearing character. For a good while, she seems to be every inch the person she presents to the world: a calm, detached soldier who thinks of little but whatever mission happens to be in front of her at the time. The cracks in that armor start to show up pretty quickly, though, upon the reveal that ~~shes Van sister and isnt quite as gung-ho about the idea of killing him as she seemed~~, which is enough to start the ball rolling that theres a lot more to her than what she shows. It takes until the very end of the game, but we do eventually get the clear picture. Despite her front, Tear is probably the most emotional party member deep down, and it just so happens that her training has also made her the best at covering up those feelings. Theres plenty of examples that show just how much that training runs counter to her actual personality, like the fact that shell go out of her way to avoid killing whenever its at all possible (~~not just people, either - one sidequest even has her hold back on killing monsters~~). Past that, she has the kind of charming awkwardness that you dont often see portrayed in RPG characters. Its cute to watch her slowly warm up to the party and subtly try to be a little more outgoing, because shes just so terrible at it. She even starts to make bad jokes here and there, and its a testament to the writing in Abyss that it comes off like its supposed to instead of just being cringy. Now, obviously, I cant do a write-up on Tear without talking about her romance with Luke, not just because its one of my personal favorites in video games but because its pretty important for her development. Ive mentioned a couple times before that good romances develop both characters, and you can trace a lot of the change she goes through during the game to however her relationship with Luke has progressed at the time. For example, her first real coming-out-of-her-shell moment begins when she snaps at Luke for his ignorance about the world and he miserably responds that he didnt have a chance to learn too much when he was busy relearning his parents faces. She awkwardly apologizes, and the rest of the team notes that she seems to be treating him more nicely afterwards. It goes through a very natural evolution from there, and while it definitely sometimes drifts into an irritating trope or two, it also never feels like its not genuine or that they dont have legitimate chemistry. Theres a line in the Cecille/Frings sidequest where an embarrassed Tear privately admits that she didnt pick up on the vibes between them, which seems like a throwaway at the time but in retrospect serves as pretty good evidence for just how inexperienced she is in matters of the heart, to the point that she seems legitimately shocked when Luke expresses concern for her when the party learns about ~~the miasma contaminating her body~~. It makes some of her more juvenile behavior a little more forgivable. Tears finest hour comes in the events leading up to and culminating at Lukes attempted sacrifice atop the Tower of Rem in the climax of the game. The rest of the party members, along with some of the more important recurring characters, all attempt, to varying extents, to talk him out of his choice or give him an alternative way out. Tear doesnt. She instead tells him that shell accept his decision, whatever it is, and trust that hes thought it through all the way. She repays her gratitude to him for allowing her the dignity of a similar choice in the past by extending him the same courtesy. And then, with all that said, she lets him know in no uncertain terms that shell never forgive him for leaving her behind, doing an uncharacteristically poor job of controlling her emotions. She cant even look at him while shes saying it. Its an excellent scene that does a great job of showing how far their relationship has evolved. She was the one who originally called Luke out for never attempting to understand anything and just relying on what others told him, and now shes acknowledging that hes moved far past that. More importantly, it demonstrates that her feelings for him are based on the true respect shes developed for him. And then, of course, when the moment of truth comes, she cant actually bring herself to watch him die and has to be physically held back from getting involved. Her obvious relief at his subsequent survival feels like a heralding of her last emotional barrier being broken down, and for the relatively brief remainder of the game shes clearly much more comfortable in expressing how much shes grown to care for the rest of the party, Luke in particular, leading up to her quiet confession in the ending (major points for that, by the way - how many times do we actually get to hear those three little words in a JPRG romance?) and then the epilogue, where she finally allows herself to shed a tear when he returns. But I dont want to give the impression that her most prevalent contribution to Abyss is being a love interest, even though she plays that role to perfection. All things considered, you could make the argument that shes the most important character to the plot in the party. Shes the one who sets the main story in motion by infiltrating the Fabre Manor and accidentally transporting her and Luke across the world. Shes the one that gives Luke the final push he needs to commit to his change, and she faithfully guides him on that journey afterwards when she didnt have to. Shes the one that makes it possible for the party to operate the Passage Rings in the Sephiroth. Shes the one that finally takes Van down by using her hymns to free Lorelei. And, though this isnt particularly relevant to the plot, she gets perhaps the best-written line in a game chock full of great writing when she calls out the replicas on the Isle of Feres for their callous attitude and arrogance. TL;DR: Theres just so much to love about Tear. I didnt even go into her relationship with Van or Legretta, and thered be plenty more to say about both of them. But really, I can probably summarize why shes ranked this high by saying this: despite all her status as the love interest, conflicting feelings towards Van, and overall emotional drive, shes an extraordinarily efficient soldier throughout the entire game. That m <cite>NBIceman posted [p:936401518] in Iceman Ran... [t:78413187]...</cite> <quote>Nova did indeed do nothing wrong. My hot take is that even the debt mechanic itself gets more hate than it deserves. Anyway, we've officially reached the point in this list where every elimination cuts me to my very soul, so just know when your favorite character goes down that I'm hurting just as much as you. #12 - Tear Grants (Abyss) Hypothesizing about not having been born is meaningless. You're living your own life. Experiences that only you know. Feelings that only you feel. Don't deny them. Youre here. The wonderfully named Mystearica Aura Fende is such an endearing character. For a good while, she seems to be every inch the person she presents to the world: a calm, detached soldier who thinks of little but whatever mission happens to be in front of her at the time. The cracks in that armor start to show up pretty quickly, though, upon the reveal that shes Van sister and isnt quite as gung-ho about the idea of killing him as she seemed, which is enough to start the ball rolling that theres a lot more to her than what she shows. It takes until the very end of the game, but we do eventually get the clear picture. Despite her front, Tear is probably the most emotional party member deep down, and it just so happens that her training has also made her the best at covering up those feelings. Theres plenty of examples that show just how much that training runs counter to her actual personality, like the fact that shell go out of her way to avoid killing whenever its at all possible (not just people, either - one sidequest even has her hold back on killing monsters). Past that, she has the kind of charming awkwardness that you dont often see portrayed in RPG characters. Its cute to watch her slowly warm up to the party and subtly try to be a little more outgoing, because shes just so terrible at it. She even starts to make bad jokes here and there, and its a testament to the writing in Abyss that it comes off like its supposed to instead of just being cringy. Now, obviously, I cant do a write-up on Tear without talking about her romance with Luke, not just because its one of my personal favorites in video games but because its pretty important for her development. Ive mentioned a couple times before that good romances develop both characters, and you can trace a lot of the change she goes through during the game to however her relationship with Luke has progressed at the time. For example, her first real coming-out-of-her-shell moment begins when she snaps at Luke for his ignorance about the world and he miserably responds that he didnt have a chance to learn too much when he was busy relearning his parents faces. She awkwardly apologizes, and the rest of the team notes that she seems to be treating him more nicely afterwards. It goes through a very natural evolution from there, and while it definitely sometimes drifts into an irritating trope or two, it also never feels like its not genuine or that they dont have legitimate chemistry. Theres a line in the Cecille/Frings sidequest where an embarrassed Tear privately admits that she didnt pick up on the vibes between them, which seems like a throwaway at the time but in retrospect serves as pretty good evidence for just how inexperienced she is in matters of the heart, to the point that she seems legitimately shocked when Luke expresses concern for her when the party learns about the miasma contaminating her body. It makes some of her more juvenile behavior a little more forgivable. Tears finest hour comes in the events leading up to and culminating at Lukes attempted sacrifice atop the Tower of Rem in the climax of the game. The rest of the party members, along with some of the more important recurring characters, all attempt, to varying extents, to talk him out of his choice or give him an alternative way out. Tear doesnt. She instead tells him that shell accept his decision, whatever it is, and trust that hes thought it through all the way. She repays her gratitude to him for allowing her the dignity of a similar choice in the past by extending him the same courtesy. And then, with all that said, she lets him know in no uncertain terms that shell never forgive him for leaving her behind, doing an uncharacteristically poor job of controlling her emotions. She cant even look at him while shes saying it. Its an excellent scene that does a great job of showing how far their relationship has evolved. She was the one who originally called Luke out for never attempting to understand anything and just relying on what others told him, and now shes acknowledging that hes moved far past that. More importantly, it demonstrates that her feelings for him are based on the true respect shes developed for him. And then, of course, when the moment of truth comes, she cant actually bring herself to watch him die and has to be physically held back from getting involved. Her obvious relief at his subsequent survival feels like a heralding of her last emotional barrier being broken down, and for the relatively brief remainder of the game shes clearly much more comfortable in expressing how much shes grown to care for the rest of the party, Luke in particular, leading up to her quiet confession in the ending (major points for that, by the way - how many times do we actually get to hear those three little words in a JPRG romance?) and then the epilogue, where she finally allows herself to shed a tear when he returns. But I dont want to give the impression that her most prevalent contribution to Abyss is being a love interest, even though she plays that role to perfection. All things considered, you could make the argument that shes the most important character to the plot in the party. Shes the one who sets the main story in motion by infiltrating the Fabre Manor and accidentally transporting her and Luke across the world. Shes the one that gives Luke the final push he needs to commit to his change, and she faithfully guides him on that journey afterwards when she didnt have to. Shes the one that makes it possible for the party to operate the Passage Rings in the Sephiroth. Shes the one that finally takes Van down by using her hymns to free Lorelei. And, though this isnt particularly relevant to the plot, she gets perhaps the best-written line in a game chock full of great writing when she calls out the replicas on the Isle of Feres for their callous attitude and arrogance. TL;DR: Theres just so much to love about Tear. I didnt even go into her relationship with Van or Legretta, and thered be plenty more to say about both of them. But really, I can probably summarize why shes ranked this high by saying this: despite all her status as the love interest, conflicting feelings towards Van, and overall emotional drive, shes an extraordinarily efficient soldier throughout the entire game. That m</quote> ... 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_stingers_ 03/28/20 10:41:51 PM #421:	I'm pretty surprised Tear isn't top 5 so I'm interested to see what yours is --- Congrats Black Turtle! <cite>_stingers_ posted [p:936402302] in Iceman Ran... [t:78413187]...</cite> <quote>I'm pretty surprised Tear isn't top 5 so I'm interested to see what yours is </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
shadowysea07 03/29/20 1:06:11 AM #422:	I would like tear but she's such an asshole to luke despite him explaining why he's the way he is to her numerous times in skits that I really can't be bothered to care for her. Then there's the whole Mohs shit where she's quick to dump on other characters but defends that religious genocidal nutball. --- The real treasure is the skeletons we made along the way. A battle where my skeleton is in my body and enemies skeletons no longer are is a good battle <cite>shadowysea07 posted [p:936408645] in Iceman Ran... [t:78413187]...</cite> <quote>I would like tear but she's such an asshole to luke despite him explaining why he's the way he is to her numerous times in skits that I really can't be bothered to care for her. Then there's the whole Mohs shit where she's quick to dump on other characters but defends that religious genocidal nutball. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UshiromiyaEva 03/29/20 1:09:57 AM #423:	Tear is wonderful. shadowysea07 posted... she's such an asshole to luke despite him explaining why he's the way he is to her numerous times in skits that I really can't be bothered to care for her. This implies you don't think Luke deserves any blame and that his excuses completely absolve him, which as an enormous Luke fan I heartily disagree with. There are many, many times when Luke gets shit on and completely deserves it, and other times when he does not. Luke being incredibly flawed is why he's such an incredible character. <cite>UshiromiyaEva posted [p:936408790] in Iceman Ran... [t:78413187]...</cite> <quote>Tear is wonderful. shadowysea07 posted... </cite> <quote>she's such an asshole to luke despite him explaining why he's the way he is to her numerous times in skits that I really can't be bothered to care for her.</quote> This implies you don't think Luke deserves any blame and that his excuses completely absolve him, which as an enormous Luke fan I heartily disagree with. There are many, many times when Luke gets shit on and completely deserves it, and other times when he does not. Luke being incredibly flawed is why he's such an incredible character. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SuperNiceDog 03/29/20 1:10:38 AM #424:	_stingers_ posted... I'm pretty surprised Tear isn't top 5 so I'm interested to see what yours is Tear only at #12? She was like the best waifu --- SuperNiceChao about to win the Oracle 2020! TsunamiXXVIII and me will destroy all you noobs <cite>SuperNiceDog posted [p:936408813] in Iceman Ran... [t:78413187]...</cite> <quote>_stingers_ posted... </cite> <quote>I'm pretty surprised Tear isn't top 5 so I'm interested to see what yours is</quote> Tear only at #12? She was like the best waifu </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
NBIceman 03/29/20 1:12:38 AM #425:	_stingers_ posted... I'm pretty surprised Tear isn't top 5 so I'm interested to see what yours is I'm kind of surprised anyone would be surprised by anyone not being top 5 at this point. I feel like almost every character left at this point is at least somewhat chalk. SuperNiceDog posted... Tear only at #12? She was like the best waifu You appear to have accurately surmised that this is not a ranking of Tales waifus. --- https://imgur.com/UYamul2 Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights <cite>NBIceman posted [p:936408893] in Iceman Ran... [t:78413187]...</cite> <quote>_stingers_ posted... </cite> <quote>I'm pretty surprised Tear isn't top 5 so I'm interested to see what yours is</quote>I'm kind of surprised anyone would be surprised by anyone not being top 5 at this point. I feel like almost every character left at this point is at least somewhat chalk. SuperNiceDog posted... </cite> <quote>Tear only at #12? She was like the best waifu</quote>You appear to have accurately surmised that this is not a ranking of Tales waifus. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SuperNiceDog 03/29/20 1:17:56 AM #426:	NBIceman posted... I'm kind of surprised anyone would be surprised by anyone not being top 5 at this point. I feel like almost every character left at this point is at least somewhat chalk. You appear to have accurately surmised that this is not a ranking of Tales waifus. awwwwwww. Yea you have your own rating system which is cool. I just hope Judith is top 10 ^_^ --- SuperNiceChao about to win the Oracle 2020! TsunamiXXVIII and me will destroy all you noobs <cite>SuperNiceDog posted [p:936409103] in Iceman Ran... [t:78413187]...</cite> <quote>NBIceman posted... </cite> <quote>I'm kind of surprised anyone would be surprised by anyone not being top 5 at this point. I feel like almost every character left at this point is at least somewhat chalk. You appear to have accurately surmised that this is not a ranking of Tales waifus.</quote> awwwwwww. Yea you have your own rating system which is cool. I just hope Judith is top 10 ^_^ </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SuperNiceDog 03/29/20 1:24:42 AM #427:	I just checked, Judith was #45 hahahahaha awwww --- SuperNiceChao about to win the Oracle 2020! TsunamiXXVIII and me will destroy all you noobs <cite>SuperNiceDog posted [p:936409337] in Iceman Ran... [t:78413187]...</cite> <quote>I just checked, Judith was #45 hahahahaha awwww </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
shadowysea07 03/29/20 1:28:16 AM #428:	UshiromiyaEva posted... This implies you don't think Luke deserves any blame and that his excuses completely absolve him, which as an enormous Luke fan I heartily disagree with. Within reason. Luke is ignorant of the world and was accidentally abducted from his mansion and has medical conditions on top of little combat experience during tears failed assassination attempt. The game also loves to dump on luke repeatedly while never holding any of the asshole party members to the same criticism. He has flaws but not anywhere near as bad as the rest of his sociopathic allies. Everyone besides natalia who is kinda just there has committed mass genocide or were involved and are negligent. Luke was a victim for the majority of the game and is also a child. Call them excuses if you will but it just sounds like excuses to defend asshole tear to me. --- The real treasure is the skeletons we made along the way. A battle where my skeleton is in my body and enemies skeletons no longer are is a good battle <cite>shadowysea07 posted [p:936409461] in Iceman Ran... [t:78413187]...</cite> <quote>UshiromiyaEva posted... </cite> <quote>This implies you don't think Luke deserves any blame and that his excuses completely absolve him, which as an enormous Luke fan I heartily disagree with.</quote>Within reason. Luke is ignorant of the world and was accidentally abducted from his mansion and has medical conditions on top of little combat experience during tears failed assassination attempt. The game also loves to dump on luke repeatedly while never holding any of the asshole party members to the same criticism. He has flaws but not anywhere near as bad as the rest of his sociopathic allies. Everyone besides natalia who is kinda just there has committed mass genocide or were involved and are negligent. Luke was a victim for the majority of the game and is also a child. Call them excuses if you will but it just sounds like excuses to defend asshole tear to me. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
NBIceman 03/29/20 1:36:20 AM #429:	You know, sometimes I wonder why fiction as a whole doesn't make more of an effort to write nuanced, multidimensional characters. Then I come on the internet and see all the people who just seem determined to boil them down to the most extreme, polarized, black-or-white opinion or description possible and I understand it a little better. --- https://imgur.com/UYamul2 Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights <cite>NBIceman posted [p:936409712] in Iceman Ran... [t:78413187]...</cite> <quote>You know, sometimes I wonder why fiction as a whole doesn't make more of an effort to write nuanced, multidimensional characters. Then I come on the internet and see all the people who just seem determined to boil them down to the most extreme, polarized, black-or-white opinion or description possible and I understand it a little better. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
shadowysea07 03/29/20 2:17:43 AM #430:	NBIceman posted... You know, sometimes I wonder why fiction as a whole doesn't make more of an effort to write nuanced, multidimensional characters. The thing is abyss lacks that particular element with their characters. Most of them are the sums of their tropes and lacking in much actual depth in their actions and the plot trips over itself constantly. I can appreciate a good multidimensional character like say Simon/ice king. Granted he's an odd case given he starts out as a one note joke character. Or an evolving character like long hair luke was in part 1. --- The real treasure is the skeletons we made along the way. A battle where my skeleton is in my body and enemies skeletons no longer are is a good battle <cite>shadowysea07 posted [p:936411007] in Iceman Ran... [t:78413187]...</cite> <quote>NBIceman posted... </cite> <quote>You know, sometimes I wonder why fiction as a whole doesn't make more of an effort to write nuanced, multidimensional characters.</quote>The thing is abyss lacks that particular element with their characters. Most of them are the sums of their tropes and lacking in much actual depth in their actions and the plot trips over itself constantly. I can appreciate a good multidimensional character like say Simon/ice king. Granted he's an odd case given he starts out as a one note joke character. Or an evolving character like long hair luke was in part 1. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UshiromiyaEva 03/29/20 2:27:36 AM #431:	OOOOOF that's a hard disagree from me. The reason Abyss is in the running for a series best, if not game best in general, is BECAUSE of how deep and fleshed it most of it's characters are! It betraying isn't because the game's combat is top of the line. <cite>UshiromiyaEva posted [p:936411314] in Iceman Ran... [t:78413187]...</cite> <quote>OOOOOF that's a hard disagree from me. The reason Abyss is in the running for a series best, if not game best in general, is BECAUSE of how deep and fleshed it most of it's characters are! It betraying isn't because the game's combat is top of the line. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
NBIceman 03/29/20 4:00:53 AM #432:	I disagree pretty strongly, too, but I guess that's implicit in the fact that after this elimination, Abyss will officially make up 30% of the top ten... #11 - Alvin (Xillia) "Heh heh... Well, if you can't see through a false front, isn't that your problem?" Theres undeniably some big points against Alvin, I know. Even Ive oscillated once or twice on whether I like him. For starters, hes the most obvious Tales Traitor Character ever in the series, to the extent that most fans had him pegged as such from the moment he was first introduced in magazines in trailers pre-release. Im not even sure he had his name revealed at the time. His whole design just screamed turncoat. And then the game itself doesnt go too far out of its way to hide it, either. So the only emotional response a player is likely to get from his sudden but inevitable betrayal is annoyance. Then, to make matters worse, he does it repeatedly, and even though the rest of the party will frequently remark on how untrustworthy he is, hes always able to worm himself enough into their good graces that theyre convinced to keep him around. Its an exhausting cycle from a players perspective, but I dont really think its fair to take that out on the character himself. That aspect of him is more of a product of Xillia being kind of a weakly written game overall, and if anything, Im more inclined to count it against the others. Plus, once you get past that, Alvins fascinating. He gets way, way more focus than any other Xillia party member not named Jude or Milla, so were privy to practically his entire life story. That story tells us that this guy has one of the worst combinations of traits humanly possible: terrible luck and even worse decision making skills. Xillia 2 straight up implies that Alvin has made the choice that will make him less happy in every major decision point in his life, because every fractured version of him is considerably happier than the prime version. He cant catch a break to begin with, and then he exacerbates everything by his tendency to immediately leap to whatever the most drastic option is in a given situation. Your mom is sick? Better blackmail the most corrupt doctor you can find to try and force her to take care of her. Dont know how to get back to your homeworld? Well, I guess you can try killing Jude at the behest of an ax-crazy Great Spirit and just hope that she upholds her end of the bargain and sends you there. And so on. This is all born out of his extraordinarily low opinion of himself. Normally, characters like that have a tendency to brood a lot or otherwise be insufferable edgy loners, but Alvin carries it well. Theres a balance struck where it doesnt encroach upon the way he acts most of the time, but it shows itself enough that it does always feel like an important aspect of his personality thats driving his actions. I think what I like most about Alvin is that hes written in such a way that its blatantly obvious to pretty much everyone but himself that hes just not actually suited for the ~~backstabbing persona hes built~~. Yeah, hes a fluent liar and good at spotting deception from others, but there his aptitude ends. His hearts not in it. Plenty of sidequests demonstrate that touch on his childhood show that he was shy, sensitive, and even notably selfless as a kid. He never really grew out of that, even after ~~being recruited into Exodus and later becoming a spy in mercenary~~ (which, by the way, he only does because he doesnt know anything else by that point in his life). And even there, something always manages to trip him up. He seems to have genuinely loved ~~Presa~~, for example, but he pushes her away simply because thats what someone in his line of work has to do (another one of those bad decisions). Even his ~~spying for Exodus during the game is motivated by his desire to take care of his mother~~. He truly doesnt have the stomach to be the big bad manipulator that the world tried to make him. His big turning point is ~~shooting Leia in the back and the subsequent brawl with Jude~~, which he really only goes through with at that point because hes so overwhelmed with guilt that the only way he can cope is by blaming someone else. And if he didnt like himself before, he hit his personal event horizon as far as believing himself to be beyond redemption then. Its uplifting to watch the dramatic growth he gets between that and the end of the game, where he finally resolves once and for all to be the better person that the rest of the party understands he is, and even though he readily admits his fear that it might already be too late, he knows all he can do is try to be an honest man going forward. Xillia 2 doesnt add too much to his character so much as it sort of tidies up what was already good about him. His self-deprecation has become more of a humor mechanism, even if it still comes from a place of truth, and its clear that hes trying his best to be that good dude and that he appreciates the rest of the cast seeing that and forgiving him for his misdeeds. He gets much less focus in that game (because, really, where was there even room for him?), but his character episodes are some of the consistently better ones, and they end on a hopeful note. His journey throughout the two games is a satisfying one. I cant end this without talking about his aesthetics, because his visual design (specifically from X1) is another one of my absolute favorites in the series. The coat, the sword/gun combination, and that badass scarf set him up perfectly as the suave and charming but exceedingly dangerous character that he would become. I havent brought this up much in the other characters write-ups, but I HATE a lot of the Xillia 1 costumes. Millas is fine, Leias isnt horrendous, but Judes, Rowens, and Elizes are all terrible, and they make Alvins look even better by comparison. Xillia 2s is much less ostentatious, but I like how it underscores the fact that were dealing with a much different Alvin. Its a lot more mellow even in the color scheme (dark though it may be), which fits a guy whos looking to get on the straight and narrow. Its certainly not like a bad design sinks a character for me (hell, probably half of the characters left to drop have pretty silly ones), but a good one can certainly lift a character I already love to even greater heights. And I do love Alvin. Its crazy to me that there was a time when I didnt care for this guy. Heading into the top 10 here, were very much into the territory of this list where every character left is entertaining throughout the whole game while also being deep and developing well. Alvin checks all those boxes. Cant say enough good things about him. TL;DR: Tons of fun, wonderfully developed, great design Alvin just plain doesnt get the credit he deserves sometime <cite>NBIceman posted [p:936413576] in Iceman Ran... [t:78413187]...</cite> <quote>I disagree pretty strongly, too, but I guess that's implicit in the fact that after this elimination, Abyss will officially make up 30% of the top ten... #11 - Alvin (Xillia) "Heh heh... Well, if you can't see through a false front, isn't that your problem?" Theres undeniably some big points against Alvin, I know. Even Ive oscillated once or twice on whether I like him. For starters, hes the most obvious Tales Traitor Character ever in the series, to the extent that most fans had him pegged as such from the moment he was first introduced in magazines in trailers pre-release. Im not even sure he had his name revealed at the time. His whole design just screamed turncoat. And then the game itself doesnt go too far out of its way to hide it, either. So the only emotional response a player is likely to get from his sudden but inevitable betrayal is annoyance. Then, to make matters worse, he does it repeatedly, and even though the rest of the party will frequently remark on how untrustworthy he is, hes always able to worm himself enough into their good graces that theyre convinced to keep him around. Its an exhausting cycle from a players perspective, but I dont really think its fair to take that out on the character himself. That aspect of him is more of a product of Xillia being kind of a weakly written game overall, and if anything, Im more inclined to count it against the others. Plus, once you get past that, Alvins fascinating. He gets way, way more focus than any other Xillia party member not named Jude or Milla, so were privy to practically his entire life story. That story tells us that this guy has one of the worst combinations of traits humanly possible: terrible luck and even worse decision making skills. Xillia 2 straight up implies that Alvin has made the choice that will make him less happy in every major decision point in his life, because every fractured version of him is considerably happier than the prime version. He cant catch a break to begin with, and then he exacerbates everything by his tendency to immediately leap to whatever the most drastic option is in a given situation. Your mom is sick? Better blackmail the most corrupt doctor you can find to try and force her to take care of her. Dont know how to get back to your homeworld? Well, I guess you can try killing Jude at the behest of an ax-crazy Great Spirit and just hope that she upholds her end of the bargain and sends you there. And so on. This is all born out of his extraordinarily low opinion of himself. Normally, characters like that have a tendency to brood a lot or otherwise be insufferable edgy loners, but Alvin carries it well. Theres a balance struck where it doesnt encroach upon the way he acts most of the time, but it shows itself enough that it does always feel like an important aspect of his personality thats driving his actions. I think what I like most about Alvin is that hes written in such a way that its blatantly obvious to pretty much everyone but himself that hes just not actually suited for the backstabbing persona hes built. Yeah, hes a fluent liar and good at spotting deception from others, but there his aptitude ends. His hearts not in it. Plenty of sidequests demonstrate that touch on his childhood show that he was shy, sensitive, and even notably selfless as a kid. He never really grew out of that, even after being recruited into Exodus and later becoming a spy in mercenary (which, by the way, he only does because he doesnt know anything else by that point in his life). And even there, something always manages to trip him up. He seems to have genuinely loved Presa, for example, but he pushes her away simply because thats what someone in his line of work has to do (another one of those bad decisions). Even his spying for Exodus during the game is motivated by his desire to take care of his mother. He truly doesnt have the stomach to be the big bad manipulator that the world tried to make him. His big turning point is shooting Leia in the back and the subsequent brawl with Jude, which he really only goes through with at that point because hes so overwhelmed with guilt that the only way he can cope is by blaming someone else. And if he didnt like himself before, he hit his personal event horizon as far as believing himself to be beyond redemption then. Its uplifting to watch the dramatic growth he gets between that and the end of the game, where he finally resolves once and for all to be the better person that the rest of the party understands he is, and even though he readily admits his fear that it might already be too late, he knows all he can do is try to be an honest man going forward. Xillia 2 doesnt add too much to his character so much as it sort of tidies up what was already good about him. His self-deprecation has become more of a humor mechanism, even if it still comes from a place of truth, and its clear that hes trying his best to be that good dude and that he appreciates the rest of the cast seeing that and forgiving him for his misdeeds. He gets much less focus in that game (because, really, where was there even room for him?), but his character episodes are some of the consistently better ones, and they end on a hopeful note. His journey throughout the two games is a satisfying one. I cant end this without talking about his aesthetics, because his visual design (specifically from X1) is another one of my absolute favorites in the series. The coat, the sword/gun combination, and that badass scarf set him up perfectly as the suave and charming but exceedingly dangerous character that he would become. I havent brought this up much in the other characters write-ups, but I HATE a lot of the Xillia 1 costumes. Millas is fine, Leias isnt horrendous, but Judes, Rowens, and Elizes are all terrible, and they make Alvins look even better by comparison. Xillia 2s is much less ostentatious, but I like how it underscores the fact that were dealing with a much different Alvin. Its a lot more mellow even in the color scheme (dark though it may be), which fits a guy whos looking to get on the straight and narrow. Its certainly not like a bad design sinks a character for me (hell, probably half of the characters left to drop have pretty silly ones), but a good one can certainly lift a character I already love to even greater heights. And I do love Alvin. Its crazy to me that there was a time when I didnt care for this guy. Heading into the top 10 here, were very much into the territory of this list where every character left is entertaining throughout the whole game while also being deep and developing well. Alvin checks all those boxes. Cant say enough good things about him. TL;DR: Tons of fun, wonderfully developed, great design Alvin just plain doesnt get the credit he deserves sometime</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
NBIceman 03/29/20 4:00:59 AM #433:	Been a bit of a journey, but we're on the homestretch! Your top ten, folks. Symphonia/Symphonia 2 (1) Zelos Wilder Abyss (3) Guy Cecil Jade Curtiss Luke fon Fabre Vesperia (2) Raven Yuri Lowell Hearts (1) Beryl Benito Xillia/Xillia 2 (1) Jude Mathis Berseria (2) Magilou Velvet Crowe --- https://imgur.com/UYamul2 Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights <cite>NBIceman posted [p:936413580] in Iceman Ran... [t:78413187]...</cite> <quote>Been a bit of a journey, but we're on the homestretch! Your top ten, folks. Symphonia/Symphonia 2 (1) Zelos Wilder Abyss (3) Guy Cecil Jade Curtiss Luke fon Fabre Vesperia (2) Raven Yuri Lowell Hearts (1) Beryl Benito Xillia/Xillia 2 (1) Jude Mathis Berseria (2) Magilou Velvet Crowe </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
_stingers_ 03/29/20 11:05:31 AM #434:	Guy in top 10 feels so wrong to me, lol --- Congrats Black Turtle! <cite>_stingers_ posted [p:936422951] in Iceman Ran... [t:78413187]...</cite> <quote>Guy in top 10 feels so wrong to me, lol </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Logicblade 03/29/20 12:36:59 PM #435:	Tear should definitely be higher than Magilou, Alvin and Guy, but aside from Beryl (I've never played Hearts so I dunno about her) that looks like a pretty strong top ten. --- Spare me your obsolete empathy The voice of sympathy means nothing to me <cite>Logicblade posted [p:936426991] in Iceman Ran... [t:78413187]...</cite> <quote>Tear should definitely be higher than Magilou, Alvin and Guy, but aside from Beryl (I've never played Hearts so I dunno about her) that looks like a pretty strong top ten. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
xp1337 03/29/20 12:49:36 PM #436:	I'm a bit surprised Tear missed the Top 10! She's great though and while I'm pretty surprised Jude has outlasted her #12 isn't the worst spot. I'd take her over Guy too but I can see the arguments for Guy, I think even if I don't agree. --- xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out? <cite>xp1337 posted [p:936427580] in Iceman Ran... [t:78413187]...</cite> <quote>I'm a bit surprised Tear missed the Top 10! She's great though and while I'm pretty surprised Jude has outlasted her #12 isn't the worst spot. I'd take her over Guy too but I can see the arguments for Guy, I think even if I don't agree. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UshiromiyaEva 03/29/20 1:07:15 PM #437:	Magilou for the #1 spot CALLED <cite>UshiromiyaEva posted [p:936428435] in Iceman Ran... [t:78413187]...</cite> <quote>Magilou for the #1 spot CALLED </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
shadowysea07 03/29/20 1:18:57 PM #438:	Logicblade posted... Tear should definitely be higher than Magilou, Alvin and Guy, but aside from Beryl (I've never played Hearts so I dunno about her) that looks like a pretty strong top ten. Beryls basically a female child version of crankshaft if you have ever seen the comic strip. --- The real treasure is the skeletons we made along the way. A battle where my skeleton is in my body and enemies skeletons no longer are is a good battle <cite>shadowysea07 posted [p:936428992] in Iceman Ran... [t:78413187]...</cite> <quote>Logicblade posted... </cite> <quote>Tear should definitely be higher than Magilou, Alvin and Guy, but aside from Beryl (I've never played Hearts so I dunno about her) that looks like a pretty strong top ten.</quote>Beryls basically a female child version of crankshaft if you have ever seen the comic strip. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pjbasis 03/29/20 1:23:16 PM #439:	From what I remember of the story I was basically just as duped as Luke was so it didn't seem like there was any other choice he had. But it's been over 10 years so I don't really remember. --- http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr345/Rakaputra/B8%20Girls%202012/pjbas.png <cite>pjbasis posted [p:936429217] in Iceman Ran... [t:78413187]...</cite> <quote>From what I remember of the story I was basically just as duped as Luke was so it didn't seem like there was any other choice he had. But it's been over 10 years so I don't really remember. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mega Mana 03/29/20 2:48:58 PM #440:	Just starting Vesperia, and I'm wondering before I get too much farther in... Are there any achievements/titles in this game, or frankly any other Tales, that are like Colette's Dog Lover title or Genis' "Don't use Gels until this point in the game" kind of titles? Where you don't really know to be aware of them the first or even second time playing, and that csn be easily failed before you even realize failure was an option? Just curious if I should keep an eye out on who to lead parties when talking to people. Zesty and Berseria didn't seem to have anything like that (though I could be wrong). Ooh, Top 10 most annoying titles to get?? --- "In my headcanon, some staffer saw Trump pull out his phone and start typing so they just Terry Tate Office Linebacker'd him out of his shoes." - FFD <cite>Mega Mana posted [p:936433553] in Iceman Ran... [t:78413187]...</cite> <quote>Just starting Vesperia, and I'm wondering before I get too much farther in... Are there any achievements/titles in this game, or frankly any other Tales, that are like Colette's Dog Lover title or Genis' "Don't use Gels until this point in the game" kind of titles? Where you don't really know to be aware of them the first or even second time playing, and that csn be easily failed before you even realize failure was an option? Just curious if I should keep an eye out on who to lead parties when talking to people. Zesty and Berseria didn't seem to have anything like that (though I could be wrong). Ooh, Top 10 most annoying titles to get?? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
xp1337 03/29/20 3:00:09 PM #441:	Mega Mana posted... Are there any achievements/titles in this game, or frankly any other Tales, that are like Colette's Dog Lover title or Genis' "Don't use Gels until this point in the game" kind of titles? Where you don't really know to be aware of them the first or even second time playing, and that csn be easily failed before you even realize failure was an option? Yeah, IIRC. I want to say the worst of them is doing all the boss battle bonus requirements or whatever they were called. Some of them you'd probably do without even meaning to. Others are a pain even when you know exactly what to do. Someone who has played it more recently likely has a better list of things like that though. --- xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out? <cite>xp1337 posted [p:936434104] in Iceman Ran... [t:78413187]...</cite> <quote>Mega Mana posted... </cite> <quote>Are there any achievements/titles in this game, or frankly any other Tales, that are like Colette's Dog Lover title or Genis' "Don't use Gels until this point in the game" kind of titles? Where you don't really know to be aware of them the first or even second time playing, and that csn be easily failed before you even realize failure was an option?</quote>Yeah, IIRC. I want to say the worst of them is doing all the boss battle bonus requirements or whatever they were called. Some of them you'd probably do without even meaning to. Others are a pain even when you know exactly what to do. Someone who has played it more recently likely has a better list of things like that though. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Xiahou Shake 03/29/20 3:05:45 PM #442:	Vesperia and Abyss are the absolute worst when it comes to missables. At least in Vesperia (Definitive) you can eventually go back and re-fight bosses to get the secret missions that all the major ones have, but there are still a ton of easily missable sidequests, some of which gate you out of the best weapons and artes in the game. (And I think even a mystic arte in one case!) --- Let the voice of love take you higher, With this gathering power, go beyond even time! <cite>Xiahou Shake posted [p:936434412] in Iceman Ran... [t:78413187]...</cite> <quote>Vesperia and Abyss are the absolute worst when it comes to missables. At least in Vesperia (Definitive) you can eventually go back and re-fight bosses to get the secret missions that all the major ones have, but there are still a ton of easily missable sidequests, some of which gate you out of the best weapons and artes in the game. (And I think even a mystic arte in one case!) </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
NBIceman 03/29/20 3:11:31 PM #443:	Gotta admit, the outpouring of Tear love surprises me a bit, especially the prevalence of "Tear>Guy" opinions. I feel like that's not one I see on many other forums, even when Tear is actually popular. Mega Mana posted... Just starting Vesperia, and I'm wondering before I get too much farther in... Are there any achievements/titles in this game, or frankly any other Tales, that are like Colette's Dog Lover title or Genis' "Don't use Gels until this point in the game" kind of titles? Where you don't really know to be aware of them the first or even second time playing, and that csn be easily failed before you even realize failure was an option? Just curious if I should keep an eye out on who to lead parties when talking to people. Zesty and Berseria didn't seem to have anything like that (though I could be wrong). Ooh, Top 10 most annoying titles to get?? I platinum'd Vesperia DE - it was a gigantic pain in the ass for things like this. I'm pretty sure there are just a couple examples of a specific party member needing to be the lead for them, but there's a lot of missable stuff. Enemies that you need to Magic Lens for the Monster Book that only show up in one place that you can't return to afterwards, missable weapons in stores for the Collector's Book, weird sidequest triggers... The thing is, there's also a couple of achievements that are "Finish Part 1 at Level 15 or under" or "Beat the game in 15 hours," which you're not going to be able to get on your first playthrough no matter what. So if being a completionist for Vesperia is important to you, I'd recommend not even worrying about it your first time through the game. You can always look up a guide for subsequent runs. Top 10 Most Annoying Titles would be fun. After the list is done, I'll open the topic up for suggestions on other Skits if people want to see them. --- https://imgur.com/UYamul2 Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights <cite>NBIceman posted [p:936434694] in Iceman Ran... [t:78413187]...</cite> <quote>Gotta admit, the outpouring of Tear love surprises me a bit, especially the prevalence of "Tear>Guy" opinions. I feel like that's not one I see on many other forums, even when Tear is actually popular. Mega Mana posted... </cite> <quote>Just starting Vesperia, and I'm wondering before I get too much farther in... Are there any achievements/titles in this game, or frankly any other Tales, that are like Colette's Dog Lover title or Genis' "Don't use Gels until this point in the game" kind of titles? Where you don't really know to be aware of them the first or even second time playing, and that csn be easily failed before you even realize failure was an option? Just curious if I should keep an eye out on who to lead parties when talking to people. Zesty and Berseria didn't seem to have anything like that (though I could be wrong). Ooh, Top 10 most annoying titles to get??</quote>I platinum'd Vesperia DE - it was a gigantic pain in the ass for things like this. I'm pretty sure there are just a couple examples of a specific party member needing to be the lead for them, but there's a lot of missable stuff. Enemies that you need to Magic Lens for the Monster Book that only show up in one place that you can't return to afterwards, missable weapons in stores for the Collector's Book, weird sidequest triggers... The thing is, there's also a couple of achievements that are "Finish Part 1 at Level 15 or under" or "Beat the game in 15 hours," which you're not going to be able to get on your first playthrough no matter what. So if being a completionist for Vesperia is important to you, I'd recommend not even worrying about it your first time through the game. You can always look up a guide for subsequent runs. Top 10 Most Annoying Titles would be fun. After the list is done, I'll open the topic up for suggestions on other Skits if people want to see them. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UshiromiyaEva 03/29/20 3:20:54 PM #444:	Top 10 dumbest made up Tales words. <cite>UshiromiyaEva posted [p:936435140] in Iceman Ran... [t:78413187]...</cite> <quote>Top 10 dumbest made up Tales words. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SuperNiceDog 03/29/20 4:23:37 PM #445:	UshiromiyaEva posted... Top 10 dumbest made up Tales words. 10) Exsphere(Symphonia) 9) fonic(Tales of the Abyss) 8) blastia(Tales of Vesperia) 7) Arte(Symphonia?) 6) spyrix(Xillia 1) 5) Lorelei(Abyss) 4) The Grand Fall(Eternia) 3) Melnics language(Eternia) 2) Quickie(Eternia) 1) aer(Tales of Vesperia) --- SuperNiceChao about to win the Oracle 2020! TsunamiXXVIII and me will destroy all you noobs <cite>SuperNiceDog posted [p:936438375] in Iceman Ran... [t:78413187]...</cite> <quote>UshiromiyaEva posted... </cite> <quote>Top 10 dumbest made up Tales words.</quote> 10) Exsphere(Symphonia) 9) fonic(Tales of the Abyss) 8) blastia(Tales of Vesperia) 7) Arte(Symphonia?) 6) spyrix(Xillia 1) 5) Lorelei(Abyss) 4) The Grand Fall(Eternia) 3) Melnics language(Eternia) 2) Quickie(Eternia) 1) aer(Tales of Vesperia) </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
shadowysea07 03/29/20 6:40:32 PM #446:	Mega Mana posted... Are there any achievements/titles in this game Yes and many are missable right out of the gate. Scanning all monsters, boss secret missions, getting all equipment, beating the final boss of part 1 without being higher than level 15 iirc among other things. Mega Mana posted... or Genis' "Don't use Gels until this point in the game" Yuri has that you have to not use items until the end of part 1. There's also a speed run achievement finishing the game in under 15 hours so because of these it takes around 3 playthroughs minimum to do all of them. Especially the max level stuff since getting past lv 100 isn't too difficult but the last 40 levels to 200 are insanely grindy (and a waste of time given that stats like hp and tp cap out long before then around 100 thanks to skills) xp1337 posted... Abyss has some easily missable sidequests as well, including some with titles attached but that's more that the timing windows can be a bit nuts. Made worse since the game is buggy as hell so they can lock out randomly. I have done numerous playthroughs and still have never unlocked the final battle power ranger costumes peony gives iirc. I also only have one sole playthrough where I got lukes berserker or whatever one and Jades dr. costume. vesperia I ran into a couple bugs in the definitive edition where numerous sidequests and costumes were missing. Yuri's vigilante or whatever costume and that sidequest chain, none of the duke ones past the first appeared either. And almost all the secret missions I couldn't unlock. --- The real treasure is the skeletons we made along the way. A battle where my skeleton is in my body and enemies skeletons no longer are is a good battle <cite>shadowysea07 posted [p:936445477] in Iceman Ran... [t:78413187]...</cite> <quote>Mega Mana posted... </cite> <quote>Are there any achievements/titles in this game</quote>Yes and many are missable right out of the gate. Scanning all monsters, boss secret missions, getting all equipment, beating the final boss of part 1 without being higher than level 15 iirc among other things. Mega Mana posted... </cite> <quote>or Genis' "Don't use Gels until this point in the game"</quote>Yuri has that you have to not use items until the end of part 1. There's also a speed run achievement finishing the game in under 15 hours so because of these it takes around 3 playthroughs minimum to do all of them. Especially the max level stuff since getting past lv 100 isn't too difficult but the last 40 levels to 200 are insanely grindy (and a waste of time given that stats like hp and tp cap out long before then around 100 thanks to skills) xp1337 posted... </cite> <quote>Abyss has some easily missable sidequests as well, including some with titles attached but that's more that the timing windows can be a bit nuts.</quote>Made worse since the game is buggy as hell so they can lock out randomly. I have done numerous playthroughs and still have never unlocked the final battle power ranger costumes peony gives iirc. I also only have one sole playthrough where I got lukes berserker or whatever one and Jades dr. costume. vesperia I ran into a couple bugs in the definitive edition where numerous sidequests and costumes were missing. Yuri's vigilante or whatever costume and that sidequest chain, none of the duke ones past the first appeared either. And almost all the secret missions I couldn't unlock. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
NBIceman 03/29/20 8:19:19 PM #447:	Let us begin. #10 - Beryl Benito (Hearts) Ill have you know that I am WAAAAAY too old to be called a loli, pal! I chose this quote because I spent the entirety of my first Hearts playthrough assuming Beryl was, like, 12 years old, only to find out afterwards that shes actually 18. Which, I guess, means I might as well start by talking about how her overall look isnt great. That she looks far younger than she is is clearly intentional, as is the whole Magical Girl influence, but just because its technically successful doesnt make it good. And I dont care for her color palette. The purple used for her overalls just looks ugly, and using the exact same color for the bow in her hair makes it look like its constantly clipping through her even when its not. The garish hat is the cherry literally on top of the design - Beryl is probably the Tales character benefited most by the hatless costume option. Now the good stuff. Beryls greatest asset is how relatable she is for me. Personal relatability isnt something Ive talked about much on this ranking, mostly because I think its kind of an overrated measure of fictional characters, but its applicable here. I see a lot of myself in her. Ive been an athlete (a fairly noteworthy one in certain circles) for most of my life, and although I was fortunate enough to have a good deal of talent in a couple of different sports, and one in particular, I had massive issues with confidence and self-esteem, and I was always far too hard on myself when it came to training and getting better. It took me a long, long time to get over the pervasive feeling that no matter how much I worked on a particular skill or how much success I achieved, there would always be someone better achieving something greater. Thats Beryls journey over the course of Hearts. Its obvious to everyone, artists and non-artists alike, that shes an extraordinarily gifted painter. But she sets ludicrously high goals for herself, and that leads only to frustration when she finds obstacles in reaching them. She sees other artists, some even more talented than her, squandering their ability and refusing to work equally hard to develop it, and it drives her insane. Shes got a chip on her shoulder a mile wide because of her grandfathers fame and it leads her to judge herself way too harshly. So between those self-confidence issues and the frustrating lack of progress shes encountering, Beryls in a pretty bad place when the party first stumbles across her. But in spite of her low opinion of herself and her abilities, she proves herself to be one of the more useful and reliable members of the group. Her immaturity masks a surprising cleverness that saves them more than once, first with her quick-thinking gambit with the Shard of Doubt and later when shes the only one who seems to notice the strange behavior of ~~a despir-infected Tourmaline~~. And then theres the multiple occasions where she teleports them all out of situations that otherwise wouldve spelled certain death. And yet, no one seems to notice or care. Theyre all too concerned with Kohaku. Just when Beryl finally starts to find some self-worth, it gets ripped away from her by the feelings of inadequacy brought on by the brave, pretty girl that everyone seems to love more than they do her. And she feels even worse about it because even she likes Kohaku. The whole sequence in her hometown is done beautifully. She lets go of her anger towards the grandfather and finds a way to accept herself for who she is through and through. Now that her journey isnt partly about flipping him the finger for abandoning the family, she can start truly painting for herself. And when she finally blows up on the party for treating her like an afterthought and they ease her concerns, she finds a real place with them that shes comfortable with as well. It leads her and Kohaku to an understanding that allows them to form the best friendship in Hearts. Plus, shes great comic relief. Shes a lot like Moses in that the universe just seems to enjoy screwing with her at every possible turn, except that her misadventures are actually funny. The bizarre speech impediment is an entertaining quirk that never got old, and for the entirety of her time with the party she seemed to approach every situation with an almost stubborn refusal to let anything get too serious and seemed to take her bad luck as license to mess with everyone else, too. TL;DR: The most entertaining Hearts character is also the best developed. She goes from a hopelessly lost and unconfident girl to someone whos so secure and steadfast in her dreams that shes even inspiring other characters like Guildmaster Marine by the games end. Her struggles are really well done and eventually mold her into something memorable. I have a hard time recommending Hearts to any but the most ardent Tales fans, but its a shame most folks will never get to see how good this character is. --- https://imgur.com/UYamul2 Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights <cite>NBIceman posted [p:936450372] in Iceman Ran... [t:78413187]...</cite> <quote>Let us begin. #10 - Beryl Benito (Hearts) Ill have you know that I am WAAAAAY too old to be called a loli, pal! I chose this quote because I spent the entirety of my first Hearts playthrough assuming Beryl was, like, 12 years old, only to find out afterwards that shes actually 18. Which, I guess, means I might as well start by talking about how her overall look isnt great. That she looks far younger than she is is clearly intentional, as is the whole Magical Girl influence, but just because its technically successful doesnt make it good. And I dont care for her color palette. The purple used for her overalls just looks ugly, and using the exact same color for the bow in her hair makes it look like its constantly clipping through her even when its not. The garish hat is the cherry literally on top of the design - Beryl is probably the Tales character benefited most by the hatless costume option. Now the good stuff. Beryls greatest asset is how relatable she is for me. Personal relatability isnt something Ive talked about much on this ranking, mostly because I think its kind of an overrated measure of fictional characters, but its applicable here. I see a lot of myself in her. Ive been an athlete (a fairly noteworthy one in certain circles) for most of my life, and although I was fortunate enough to have a good deal of talent in a couple of different sports, and one in particular, I had massive issues with confidence and self-esteem, and I was always far too hard on myself when it came to training and getting better. It took me a long, long time to get over the pervasive feeling that no matter how much I worked on a particular skill or how much success I achieved, there would always be someone better achieving something greater. Thats Beryls journey over the course of Hearts. Its obvious to everyone, artists and non-artists alike, that shes an extraordinarily gifted painter. But she sets ludicrously high goals for herself, and that leads only to frustration when she finds obstacles in reaching them. She sees other artists, some even more talented than her, squandering their ability and refusing to work equally hard to develop it, and it drives her insane. Shes got a chip on her shoulder a mile wide because of her grandfathers fame and it leads her to judge herself way too harshly. So between those self-confidence issues and the frustrating lack of progress shes encountering, Beryls in a pretty bad place when the party first stumbles across her. But in spite of her low opinion of herself and her abilities, she proves herself to be one of the more useful and reliable members of the group. Her immaturity masks a surprising cleverness that saves them more than once, first with her quick-thinking gambit with the Shard of Doubt and later when shes the only one who seems to notice the strange behavior of a despir-infected Tourmaline. And then theres the multiple occasions where she teleports them all out of situations that otherwise wouldve spelled certain death. And yet, no one seems to notice or care. Theyre all too concerned with Kohaku. Just when Beryl finally starts to find some self-worth, it gets ripped away from her by the feelings of inadequacy brought on by the brave, pretty girl that everyone seems to love more than they do her. And she feels even worse about it because even she likes Kohaku. The whole sequence in her hometown is done beautifully. She lets go of her anger towards the grandfather and finds a way to accept herself for who she is through and through. Now that her journey isnt partly about flipping him the finger for abandoning the family, she can start truly painting for herself. And when she finally blows up on the party for treating her like an afterthought and they ease her concerns, she finds a real place with them that shes comfortable with as well. It leads her and Kohaku to an understanding that allows them to form the best friendship in Hearts. Plus, shes great comic relief. Shes a lot like Moses in that the universe just seems to enjoy screwing with her at every possible turn, except that her misadventures are actually funny. The bizarre speech impediment is an entertaining quirk that never got old, and for the entirety of her time with the party she seemed to approach every situation with an almost stubborn refusal to let anything get too serious and seemed to take her bad luck as license to mess with everyone else, too. TL;DR: The most entertaining Hearts character is also the best developed. She goes from a hopelessly lost and unconfident girl to someone whos so secure and steadfast in her dreams that shes even inspiring other characters like Guildmaster Marine by the games end. Her struggles are really well done and eventually mold her into something memorable. I have a hard time recommending Hearts to any but the most ardent Tales fans, but its a shame most folks will never get to see how good this character is. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
NBIceman 03/29/20 8:19:23 PM #448:	Tales of Hearts Wrap-Up Personality issues aside, I'm very impressed. I guess even you have your uses sometimes. Despite being a relatively simple and straightforward game, especially as compared to the rest of the Tales series, Hearts feels really busy, and thats no more evident than with the huge cast. There are several hours during the game where your traveling party is composed of eleven characters - eight playable, three supporting - and while I find most of them to be at least solid, its too much. The bigger problem is that I feel like theres a disconnect for me with the Japanese audio. Im a firm dubs over subs guy (Im sure some here will hate me for that) and this game just reinforces that opinion. I cant take the voice acting at times. Beryl is high-pitched and has no off switch, Kohaku sounds like a meek seven-year old and takes forever to get sentences out half the time, Hisui is always turned up to eleven and screaming at the top of his lungs I just feel too separated from the party when half of them have obnoxious voices and are speaking a language I dont understand. And they feel kind of separated from each other a lot, too, which is odd in a game where bonds are such an emphasized point. Its like Ines and Kohaku, for example, barely interact. I dont hate this cast, but with so many characters it seems like more than just two shouldve been able to find a place in the upper tiers. And since they didnt, I cant really call it one of the better ones in the series. --- https://imgur.com/UYamul2 Spurs - Yankees - Eagles - Golden Knights <cite>NBIceman posted [p:936450377] in Iceman Ran... [t:78413187]...</cite> <quote>Tales of Hearts Wrap-Up Personality issues aside, I'm very impressed. I guess even you have your uses sometimes. Despite being a relatively simple and straightforward game, especially as compared to the rest of the Tales series, Hearts feels really busy, and thats no more evident than with the huge cast. There are several hours during the game where your traveling party is composed of eleven characters - eight playable, three supporting - and while I find most of them to be at least solid, its too much. The bigger problem is that I feel like theres a disconnect for me with the Japanese audio. Im a firm dubs over subs guy (Im sure some here will hate me for that) and this game just reinforces that opinion. I cant take the voice acting at times. Beryl is high-pitched and has no off switch, Kohaku sounds like a meek seven-year old and takes forever to get sentences out half the time, Hisui is always turned up to eleven and screaming at the top of his lungs I just feel too separated from the party when half of them have obnoxious voices and are speaking a language I dont understand. And they feel kind of separated from each other a lot, too, which is odd in a game where bonds are such an emphasized point. Its like Ines and Kohaku, for example, barely interact. I dont hate this cast, but with so many characters it seems like more than just two shouldve been able to find a place in the upper tiers. And since they didnt, I cant really call it one of the better ones in the series. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UshiromiyaEva 03/29/20 8:28:52 PM #449:	Man, the only Hearts character that I think doesn't look like a complete disaster of a design, and this first thing you say is you don't like her look! <cite>UshiromiyaEva posted [p:936450866] in Iceman Ran... [t:78413187]...</cite> <quote>Man, the only Hearts character that I think doesn't look like a complete disaster of a design, and this first thing you say is you don't like her look! </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
shadowysea07 03/29/20 9:12:51 PM #450:	NBIceman posted... The bizarre speech impediment is an entertaining quirk that never got old, and for the entirety of her time with the party she seemed to approach every situation with an almost stubborn refusal to let anything get too serious and seemed to take her bad luck as license to mess with everyone else, too. malapropism. And I am not entirely sure at times what was one and what was just a translation error thanks to the terrible localization sadly. Then there's the stuff you make out occasionally being said in the audio that are not in the subtitles like a few names that were changed like Gallando, shing, aquamarine, and the one maid alexandrite. The censorship of Gallandos name was also odd given that I doubt the number of people that know greek and play tales of games and would be offended is very high. Probably can be counted on one or both hands. --- The real treasure is the skeletons we made along the way. A battle where my skeleton is in my body and enemies skeletons no longer are is a good battle <cite>shadowysea07 posted [p:936452939] in Iceman Ran... [t:78413187]...</cite> <quote>NBIceman posted... </cite> <quote>The bizarre speech impediment is an entertaining quirk that never got old, and for the entirety of her time with the party she seemed to approach every situation with an almost stubborn refusal to let anything get too serious and seemed to take her bad luck as license to mess with everyone else, too.</quote>malapropism. And I am not entirely sure at times what was one and what was just a translation error thanks to the terrible localization sadly. Then there's the stuff you make out occasionally being said in the audio that are not in the subtitles like a few names that were changed like Gallando, shing, aquamarine, and the one maid alexandrite. The censorship of Gallandos name was also odd given that I doubt the number of people that know greek and play tales of games and would be offended is very high. Probably can be counted on one or both hands. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Board 8 > Iceman Ranks Every Tales Series Party Member w/Writeups & Prediction Prizes (+) Yeah! (+)

Board 8 > Iceman Ranks Every Tales Series Party Member w/Writeups & Prediction Prizes