Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 264: DNC's House of Mouse

(+) Yeah! (+)

Every time a Republican says "You have to RESPECT THE PRESIDENT!" when they for years refused to respect Obama, a puppy dies.

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Republicans never impeached Obama.

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Corrik7 posted...

Yeah, they started protest chanting on his call for lower prescription drug costs. It was ridiculous.

They were chanting about HR3, the prescription drug bill that the House passed and then Mitch killed.

Seems kinda justified to protest Trump lying about bringing down prescription drug costs when his party is actually opposing efforts to do that!

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Yes it is likely incompetence, but this is objectively not normal so dont say it is, ok? Ok.

Obviously everything about Iowa right now isn't normal

I was merely pointing out that those areas coming in last/later than the others is "normal" as far as the current process goes because they're more population dense. Your post came off like it was implying some kind of conspiracy/cheating/whatever, so if it wasn't, then I apologize, but it wasn't any kind of attack, anyway?

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Jesus Christ dude, give it a rest with your passive-aggression please.

Its not even about it being a conspiracy, its about it being bogus af.

The entire purpose of Iowa being a big deal is to start momentum, and when the bastions of Bernies support are delayed his momentum is essentially wasted.

Yes it is likely incompetence, but this is objectively not normal so dont say it is, ok? Ok.

Did you stop reading at "it is normal", because SEP's point that followed is still completely accurate that it very much is normal

Iowa's overall fuckup wouldn't change urban areas tallying up slower, if they weren't slagging behind today they'd have still been slagging behind yesterday.

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Precisely what group unrepresentative of "classic" Democrats has taken over the Democratic party? Last I checked, AOC/Bernie et al wield very little actual power within the party.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

They were chanting about HR3, the prescription drug bill that the House passed and then Mitch killed.

Seems kinda justified to protest Trump lying about bringing down prescription drug costs when his party is actually opposing efforts to do that!

That makes it right to protest chant over lower costs. Haha. Okay. Trump says "costs are down" and we need to continue making them lower. Democrats who sat their stoicly through half a dozen good things start chanting because one of their bills got killed? Looks great to me! Ridiculous.

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This response is basically an admission that national Democrats have no ideas and are doing nothing.

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Corrik7 posted...

That makes it right to protest chant over lower costs. Haha. Okay. Trump says "costs are down" and we need to continue making them lower. Democrats who sat their stoicly through half a dozen good things start chanting because one of their bills got killed? Looks great to me! Ridiculous.

Essentially all of their bills have been killed by Mitch (I'm not sure he's let anything through besides must-pass staff like the budget besides USMCA).

And the whole deal is that Trump says a bunch of stuff that sounds good, but if you actually look at his actions he's actively trying to do harm in those areas (e.g. he claims that he's going to "protect preexisting conditions", but his administration is currently supporting a lawsuit to destroy all of Obamacare, very much including preexisting condition protections). The Democrats have no obligation to let him say one thing and do the opposite without consequence.

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Not_an_Owl posted...

Precisely what group unrepresentative of "classic" Democrats has taken over the Democratic party? Last I checked, AOC/Bernie et al wield very little actual power within the party.

The time's they are a changin'

But also Bernie is a modern fdr so nothing to see here.

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red sox 777 posted...

This response is basically an admission that national Democrats have no ideas and are doing nothing.

Yeah, it is kind of weak. When she went off about Twitter bullying I kinda started to tune her out.

Trump definitely commanded the attention better and hit it out of the park with the guests and surprises. I am not sure how a response could replicate that, but this response isn't very good.

Who cares the economy is doing better! You are actually doing worst! Kinda eye rolling.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

Essentially all of their bills have been killed by Mitch (I'm not sure he's let anything through besides must-pass staff like the budget besides USMCA).

So he called for a bipartisan bill regarding it? Like, did you even listen to what was said lol.

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Corrik7 posted...

So he called for a bipartisan bill regarding it? Like, did you even listen to what was said lol.

I'll believe it when I see it. Absolutely nothing in the record of Trump's past behavior leads me to believe he'll follow through on that.

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Not_an_Owl posted...

One party is imprisoning children in concentration camps. The other isn't.

And which is that?
You do realize all the pics in the first AND second wave of reporting were of pictures from Obama's era, right? As in, those cages you saw were due to the person who is still the most popular and respected democrat?

No party is innocent here.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

I'll believe it when I see it. Absolutely nothing in the record of Trump's past behavior leads me to believe he'll follow through on that.

I highly doubt he would veto a bill that was bipartisan regarding it.

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I...

...Bernie is a frontrunner for being the presidential nominee of the party.

A party he has piggybacked to do so.

Trump did the same thing in 2016 to the Republicans.

My entire point is that our dumb two party system forces this kind of thing. Instead of promoting differing viewpoints it requires squashing them.

How can I make that any clearer?

If third parties were at all viable, Trump never runs as a Republican and Bernie never runs as a Democrat.

That is all I'm saying.

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Grimlyn posted...

Did you stop reading at "it is normal", because SEP's point that followed is still completely accurate that it very much is normal

Iowa's overall fuckup wouldn't change urban areas tallying up slower, if they weren't slagging behind today they'd have still been slagging behind yesterday.

It was mostly in response to Rock, I had said earlier that the levels of blatant bs make me think its too stupid to be a conspiracy.


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Kinglicious posted...

And which is that?
You do realize all the pics in the first AND second wave of reporting were of pictures from Obama's era, right? As in, those cages you saw were due to the person who is still the most popular and respected democrat?

No party is innocent here.

No, I didn't realize that. But surely if you're going to make that claim, you can provide articles and proof from a non-right wing publication, yes?

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Kinglicious posted...

And which is that?
You do realize all the pics in the first AND second wave of reporting were of pictures from Obama's era, right? As in, those cages you saw were due to the person who is still the most popular and respected democrat?

No party is innocent here.

They aren't concentration camps. What is there has been there for probably a decade alrdy, and it is being used as intended. Nobody cares about the extreme spin regarding it. There are consequences to doing illegal things and repercussions. No one is out there rounding up people maliciously. They are doing what they are supposed to be doing in response due to illegal actions.

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Corrik7 posted...

I highly doubt he would veto a bill that was bipartisan regarding it.

Probably not, but he absolutely would defer to Mitch telling him that the Senate Republicans don't actually want to pass a bill on that issue (still waiting for "infrastructure week!")

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

It was mostly in response to Rock, I had said earlier that the levels of blatant bs make me think its too stupid to be a conspiracy.

My bad, I missed where you quoted Rock.

Fair.

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Grimlyn posted...

Did you stop reading at "it is normal", because SEP's point that followed is still completely accurate that it very much is normal

Iowa's overall fuckup wouldn't change urban areas tallying up slower, if they weren't slagging behind today they'd have still been slagging behind yesterday.

And not only this, I pointed out a page ago that this is lazy nonsense conspiracy theories. They intentionally (or maybe stupidly) circled the wrong area for Davenport to act like it was a Sanders area and not a Buttigieg area.

This being some vast conspiracy to thwart Sanders is just complete nonsense crazy talk. But again I sort of expected it after how poorly Iowa handled things yesterday! You open yourself up to the insane with stuff like this.

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Inviso posted...

No, I didn't realize that. But surely if you're going to make that claim, you can provide articles and proof from a non-right wing publication, yes?

https://nypost.com/2019/07/10/house-dems-use-obama-era-photos-to-promote-kids-in-cages-hearing/

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/trump-immigration-children-cages-photos-obama-administration-us-president-twitter-a8373926.html

https://www.businessinsider.com/migrant-children-in-cages-2014-photos-explained-2018-5

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Suprak the Stud posted...

But again I sort of expected it after how poorly Iowa handled things yesterday! You open yourself up to the insane with stuff like this.

definitely agreed

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FFDragon posted...

...Bernie is a frontrunner for being the presidential nominee of the party.

A party he has piggybacked to do so.

Trump did the same thing in 2016 to the Republicans.

Show me the huge swaths of elected Democrats who have changed their positions to be more in line with Bernie's. Show me the polls indicating 80% of Democrat voters believe Bernie can do no wrong.

I'm not saying these things can't be true in the future, but right this second it's disingenuous to say the Democratic party at large has been invaded by socialists or whatever.

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Like I normally dont mind Weigel but it is wildly irresponsible to share that without taking two seconds to fact check it (or understand the reasoning for it in the first place).

Hes fanning the flames for no reason.

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Is it bad that I'm honestly not sure if I'm getting trolled here?

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Now that the floodgates have been opened, I plan on turning up the pressure.

I'm going to tweet that Pete took my cupcake and ate it in front of me. Then he spit it out and said it was because he couldn't taste enough babies in it.

Please like and share so we can get people to start believing it.

...Or I guess I could apparently just tweet that he's gay and that'd get people doing spit takes, too.

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Honest to god, not trolling you. I just think you're wrong.

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Corrik7 posted...

https://nypost.com/2019/07/10/house-dems-use-obama-era-photos-to-promote-kids-in-cages-hearing/

Obama had to deal with an influx of unaccompanied minors. He didn't choose to create that situation like Trump did by systematically separating families.

Honestly, "Trump just continued Obama's policy" with child separations is one of the grossest lies the right wing has made in the past few years, and there's stiff competition. Multiple Trump Admin officials were on record as saying that they deliberately changed the policy to act as a deterrent!

Quick clarifying edit: I'm not accusing you of deliberately lying. I think you're misinformed.

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Lol who told pelosi that tearing up the speech would be a good move? The same people who hired the caucus programmers?

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Corrik7 posted...

They aren't concentration camps. What is there has been there for probably a decade alrdy, and it is being used as intended. Nobody cares about the extreme spin regarding it. There are consequences to doing illegal things and repercussions. No one is out there rounding up people maliciously. They are doing what they are supposed to be doing in response due to illegal actions.

oh i mostly do agree with you on this, concentration camps is all kinds of wrong and political spin right now.
don't like the way it's done but i also don't have a better alternative. i'm willing to accept that the current status quo there - which has been the status quo for a decade - might be the best of the worst options we've got. but i'm also willing to hear of better solutions to what's really a numbers problem.

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Nelson_Mandela posted...

Lol who told pelosi that tearing up the speech would be a good move? The same people who hired the caucus programmers?

I think shes trying to find that high she got from her weird clapping being turned into gif. Shes addicted to being a gif now.
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If you agree with me that Bernie is unrepresentative of the classical Democratic party.

And you agree with me that Bernie is a frontrunner for the Democratic party's presidential nominee.

And you agree with me that the only reason that is a thing is because of the dumb two party system.

Where is the disconnect where I suddenly become wrong.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

Obama had to deal with an influx of unaccompanied minors. He didn't choose to create that situation like Trump did by systematically separating families.

Honestly, "Trump just continued Obama's policy" with child separations is one of the grossest lies the right wing has made in the past few years, and there's stiff competition. Multiple Trump Admin officials were on record as saying that they deliberately changed the policy to act as a deterrent!

Quick clarifying edit: I'm not accusing you of deliberately lying. I think you're misinformed.

I think you are drinking the Kool Aid.

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Nelson_Mandela posted...

Lol who told pelosi that tearing up the speech would be a good move? The same people who hired the caucus programmers?

probably the same ones who told her "walk SLOWLY to the other chamber to deliver the articles of impeachment."


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Wanglicious posted...

oh i mostly do agree with you on this, concentration camps is all kinds of wrong and political spin right now.
don't like the way it's done but i also don't have a better alternative. i'm willing to accept that the current status quo there - which has been the status quo for a decade - might be the best of the worst options we've got. but i'm also willing to hear of better solutions to what's really a numbers problem.

Well, the best solution is to stop it before they get inside your borders/are at them. So the best solution is prevention. Guess who is fighting that solution while also complaining at the outcomes?

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Corrik7 posted...

I think you are drinking the Kool Aid.

https://time.com/5268572/jeff-sessions-illegal-border-separated/

They changed the policy deliberately. Family separations were not routine under Obama.

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MoogleKupo141 posted...

I think shes trying to find that high she got from her weird clapping being turned into gif. Shes addicted to being a gif now.

I wouldn't be surprised if Trump gets 50+% approval in the next Gallup poll

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FFDragon posted...

If you agree with me that Bernie is unrepresentative of the classical Democratic party.

And you agree with me that Bernie is a frontrunner for the Democratic party's presidential nominee.

And you agree with me that the only reason that is a thing is because of the dumb two party system.

Where is the disconnect where I suddenly become wrong.

You're insinuating that Bernie has made the Democratic party's agenda and platform into his own personal agenda and platform, the same way Trump did with the Republicans. That is patently false, as evidenced by the huge swath of elected Democrats who still don't support M4A or any of his other major proposals.

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And yet he could be their presidential nominee.

That's my entire point jcjcivhxysghvggdyfjvubg

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FFDragon posted...

And yet he could be their presidential nominee.

That's my entire point jcjcivhxysghvggdyfjvubg

Then I guess I missed your point! My bad.

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the republican party hated trump the entire time he was becoming their nominee. he was an outsider, didn't represent them, and they despised him. he would not have been a republican if there was another party.

they fell in line and adapted only after he won because he proved he had the right opinion of what people wanted. bernie is more or less doing the same to the democrats and also wouldn't be a democrat if there wasn't a two party system. hell, he's literally been mostly independent but is warping the party to his side. both are party shifting candidates.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

https://time.com/5268572/jeff-sessions-illegal-border-separated/

They changed the policy deliberately. Family separations were not routine under Obama.

That's not what the issue is.

They were built for this literal reasoning. The laws are built around this solution. Obama was basically on the record of that he thought it would be a PR nightmare if used as supposed to be so amended his policy regarding it.

This exists because of laws and establishments that predate Trump and that Trump is simply choosing to enforce according to how they were intended.

When the Obama administration official goes on social media and posts pictures of Trump's supposed bad situations when the photos are actually from their own administration it just shows how dumb it is.

"Hey, look at this idiot doing this idiotic thing here!"
"Hey, you know that idiot is you right???"
"Oh well it is okay because I was doing it for this reason so it's not a big deal"

It isn't only an issue when it is someone else and okay when it was yourself. You are believing the spin.

If Obama's era was so against the idea of it, maybe they should have demolished the cages.

The point is, no one should be against them anyways. They are happening for a logical reason. We aren't purposely putting people there. People choosing to break the laws because not feeling deterred by the consequences and being able to skirt them is the problem. We need to prevent the problem before it gets to this point and have better policies from needing it to get there.

"It's okay cuz Obama just had a bunch of unaccompanied minors come so were trying their best to get them to get to their parents so it was temporary"

Is not much different than...

"It's okay cuz Trump just had a bunch of illegal immigrants who illegally crossed with their children come so were trying their best to get them through the legal process the person doing something illegal was pushing to be afforded so it was temporary."

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Oh thank God. Wang gets what I'm saying. That's all I was saying, which I don't think there's any real argument against.

Maybe the part about whether the Dems would fall in line behind a President Sanders but that is the only TBD

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The president can do a lot of disgusting things in the confines of the law. "It's not illegal" isn't a defense to the fact that child separation is disgusting and wrong.

The fact is that Trump chose this policy. He didn't have to do it, and he did.

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Listening to Hannity talking exactly the same as Tony right now.

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I mean it was already popular for Dems to fight Obama, the parties definitely aren't the same.

Dems try desperately to pander to Rs, Rs on the other hand don't even bother - it's 100% all about their base & donors.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

The president can do a lot of disgusting things in the confines of the law. "It's not illegal" isn't a defense to the fact that child separation is disgusting and wrong.

The fact is that Trump chose this policy. He didn't have to do it, and he did.

It's not disgusting. It is literally why the places were made. It is to help not separate children to a location that they will be lost to their parents and/or system and possibly become just illegals / human trafficked children.

It happens solely because their parents are doing something illegal that affects their children. Their parents/caretakers are responsible for the situation and nothing more. There are consequences to wrong and illegal actions.

The problem is lack of prevention and lack of judges in the system to deal with the cases quickly and minimize the time in the system.

Those are what need fixed, and two things Trump has been working at getting fixed with new judge appointments for the system and harsher illegal immigration policies.

Focus on what is causing the issue, not bitching it exists while you don't do anything to prevent it.

Any logical human being wouldn't say to let them skirt the law is a good idea in response.

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yeah, your point's clear and not something most could disagree with. hell, AOC said she wouldn't be in the same party as Biden in other places, basically saying the same thing. i don't think Dems would fall behind Sanders unless he became president. even winning the nom probably wouldn't be enough to establish such a drastic shift the way Trump did it but beating everyone else and getting the nom could potentially lead to a slower version of the same phenomenon.

i've heard some comparisons of this rise of populists being similar to the rise of neocons, only it's happening in both parties this time instead of the dems. don't know how true that is but it's pretty drastic.

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