Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 264: DNC's House of Mouse

(+) Yeah! (+)

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Weve heard them all before.

He sympathized with communists. He honeymooned in Russia. He wrote about sexual fantasies. He has 3 houses. His wife gave college funds to her son, etc etc.

Not at a sustained level from anyone seriously committed to destroying him!

In any case, if Bernie is the nominee, I hope you're right that the attacks are less potent than I imagine they will be!

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LIterally every potential nominee is going to get attacked. Not sure why Bernie is unique in this regard

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KamikazePotato posted...

LIterally every potential nominee is going to get attacked. Not sure why Bernie is unique in this regard

Well, my main point isnt about Bernie, its about Biden. The reason his favorables tanked is that he was the frontrunner and being the frontrunner means you get attacked.

And yes, Trump will attack anyone (and Ukraine showed that if there isnt anything real to attack somebody with hell make some shit up).

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LordoftheMorons posted...

The reason his favorables tanked is that he was the frontrunner and being the frontrunner means you get attacked.

And I don't agree with this at all. Biden has been attacked more than the others but the bulk of his downslide has been from himself. He's done nothing to make people want to support him (and has in fact done the opposite), and an early lead only goes so far.

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They seriously have Klobuchar to lose her home state in the primaries? That's wild and embarrassing for her.

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Coronavirus is quickly getting out of control btw.

Surprised we haven't seen more said about it.

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Corrik7 posted...

They seriously have Klobuchar to lose her home state in the primaries? That's wild and embarrassing for her.

Why is that embarrassing? Its really hard to convince someone to vote for you when youre in fifth because its basically throwing their vote away. It might be a bit embarrassing if she lost Minnesota while viable.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

Well, my main point isnt about Bernie, its about Biden. The reason his favorables tanked is that he was the frontrunner and being the frontrunner means you get attacked.

And yes, Trump will attack anyone (and Ukraine showed that if there isnt anything real to attack somebody with hell make some shit up).

Everyone said that would happen, and then Biden's national polling stayed pretty steady steady at around 28% from July all the way through now.

Part of the appeal is that he was a frontrunner, and campaigned on how electable and good at winning elections he was, and if polls are any indication the primary voters care more about beating Trump than they do about who the specific nominee is.

But yeah, IDK I just don't think scandals are going to matter that much against Trump. If anything, weirdly I think it's better to have more scandals, not less. (Trump had about 30 scandals to Hillary's two scandals in 2016, and this kind of worked to his advantage because nobody could remember all his scandals).

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Glad that the VA state legislature might pass an anti-SLAPP law:
https://www.courthousenews.com/anti-slapp-speech-protections-pushed-in-virginia-legislature/

Devin Nunes can go fuck himself

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Hes probably doing exactly what the Liberal media did for Trump. Boosting him because he assumes a weakness.

I welcome it, convince your supporters that Bernie is an outsider, Hannity, it just makes your attacks against the party itself less effective in the long run.

He's doing it not because he thinks Bernie is weaker, but convincing people that they shouldn't support the Dem candidate (no matter who it is) because the system is clearly rigged.

Weren't you arguing earlier that Trump fears Bernie? Hannity is literally Trump's top advisor at this point, I doubt Hannity is pushing this narrative if Trump actually fears him.

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Corrik7 posted...

They seriously have Klobuchar to lose her home state in the primaries? That's wild and embarrassing for her.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Florida_Republican_primary
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Jakyl25 posted...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Florida_Republican_primary

Yeah, that's embarrassing.

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Does Trump actually fear anyone? Narcissism aside, I'm pretty sure in his world, even if he loses the election he just calls it rigged and refuses to leave office (50/50 shot on anyone stopping him from doing that).

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TheRock1525 posted...

He's doing it not because he thinks Bernie is weaker, but convincing people that they shouldn't support the Dem candidate (no matter who it is) because the system is clearly rigged.

Weren't you arguing earlier that Trump fears Bernie? Hannity is literally Trump's top advisor at this point, I doubt Hannity is pushing this narrative if Trump actually fears him.

As we both know, Trump and his advisors never disagree on anything.

We have Trump on a hidden recording acknowledging essentially that Bernie is the only candidate offering people what they want. He framed it as people want socialism because free stuff, but in a reductive sensehes right.

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KamikazePotato posted...

Does Trump actually fear anyone? Narcissism aside, I'm pretty sure in his world, even if he loses the election he just calls it rigged and refuses to leave office (50/50 shot on anyone stopping him from doing that).

Nancy Pelosi
Vladimir Putin
Fred Trump's ghost

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Wanglicious posted...

oh i mostly do agree with you on this, concentration camps is all kinds of wrong and political spin right now.
don't like the way it's done but i also don't have a better alternative. i'm willing to accept that the current status quo there - which has been the status quo for a decade - might be the best of the worst options we've got. but i'm also willing to hear of better solutions to what's really a numbers problem.

How about we process them and let them stay?
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LordoftheMorons posted...

Fred Trump's ghost

I cant tell Fred Trumps ghost from when he was alive, theyre wearing very similar outfits
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Trump has nothing on Bernie, other than that he ended up endorsing Hillary in 2016. That shows poor judgment. Nothing else will stick.

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Trump fears losing. A very reasonable fear.


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LordoftheMorons posted...

Nancy Pelosi

Nancy Pelosi: "Get out of the White House."
Trump: "No."

What now

I'm not just spitballing here - this is the logical conclusion of a facist state, which we have been heading towards

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Clearly she then rips up the White House
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KamikazePotato posted...

Nancy Pelosi: "Get out of the White House."
Trump: "No."

What now

I'm not just spitballing here - this is the logical conclusion of a facist state, which we have been heading towards

If no one backs him up I guess he gets dragged out by Secret Service or something? If the bulk of Republicans back him on that hypothetical scenario then yeah, there's a problem

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LordoftheMorons posted...

Nancy Pelosi

Hard disagree

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To go into more detail about the scenario:

Trump refuses to leave. Calls the process rigged. His base believes him because they always believe him. Rest of the GOP falls in line to support him because they don't want to fracture the Republican base as a whole, and because falling in line is what they do best.

Now what? Military action? They probably side with the Republicans. Storming the White House no longer works. American populace violently rebelling seems very unlikely - for a country founded on rebellion, we're pretty conditioned to accept authority. A decent number of liberals probably start actually leaving the country, making the right even stronger in elections (not that they need it anymore).

Democracy and due process is fragile, and it's already taken a beating.

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I don't think Trump maintains 90+% of his base after literally refusing to leave office, and I don't think that large a fraction of military commanders would side with him

Congressional Republicans have failed every successively lower bar I've set for them for the past three years though, so you might be right about them...!

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Bill Maher is a chode, but hes certain Trump wont leave if he loses, and Im inclined to agree.

Not that it matters, the forecast looks bleak af.

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People also said Obama and Bush wouldn't leave office. This is ridiculous.

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red sox 777 posted...

People also said Obama and Bush wouldn't leave office. This is ridiculous.

I don't think it's extremely likely, but Trump did refuse to say that he would abide by the result of the 2016 election after he was beating the drums for weeks about the possibility of it being "rigged." (And then he still claimed there were "millions of illegal votes" even though he won because his ego couldn't take losing the popular vote!)

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LordoftheMorons posted...

I don't think it's extremely likely, but Trump did refuse to say that he would abide by the result of the 2016 election after he was beating the drums for weeks about the possibility of it being "rigged." (And then he still claimed there were "millions of illegal votes" even though he won because his ego couldn't take losing the popular vote!)

It was a ridiculous question by the moderator, and Trump gave it the answer that question deserved. If he had said he would abide by the result of the election it would legitimize the question, which would hurt him at the polls, because it would make it look like the media suggestion, invented out of whole cloth, that Trump wouldn't abide by the results of the election was somehow legitimate.

The way to beat that is to attack the question, and that's what Trump did. Made the media look ridiculous for asking it.

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Lol at Trump refusing to accept the results. Fearmongering is fun.


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https://twitter.com/therealoj32/status/1224752500198084608?s=21

OJ Simpson with some advice for everyone.

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And of course, the Democrats never accepted the results of the election. They spent the next three years arguing that the election didn't reflect the will of the American People because Russia ran some ads. It was really ironic in the end!

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And yeah, it's remarkable that people talk about Trump not accepting the will of the voters when he was the only one last cycle who actually listened to the voters instead of telling them what they should want. Trump isn't the one who implied that a quarter of the country's votes shouldn't count because the voters were deplorable.

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Corrik7 posted...

Coronavirus is quickly getting out of control btw.

Surprised we haven't seen more said about it.

honestly i'm in the camp saying china has been lying from day 1, it's a global pandemic already, and the WHO is trash on matters related to china. you want to talk deaths due to the virus, you're at least in 5 figures. non verifiable sources have put it in 6. thing about this outbreak is we're talking china, there's been accounts of calling something fake, then a rumor, then real a week later - that's the story of them cremating the bodies. media isn't well equipped to dealing with a lying state who ultimately pays them, meaning the only real news we get is going to come on the ground. it's all pretty horrifying. even the 4 "hospitals" built are a joke, unsurprisingly, with guards in containment cells and basically oversized wrangling sticks. they don't even count the dead properly either, nevermind the fact that they can only do a couple thousand tests a day to verify it, not every hospital death counts and deaths outside the hospital don't count. if you ain't confirmed to have had it, you don't count. if your corpse turned to ash before it could count, you also don't count.

they're getting it up the ass though because at the same time of the coronavirus they're getting hit with another strain of the bird flu too.

Jakyl25 posted...

How about we process them and let them stay?

bring out the cages.
open borders are a no go.

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Wanglicious posted...

honestly i'm in the camp saying china has been lying from day 1, it's a global pandemic already, and the WHO is trash on matters related to china. you want to talk deaths due to the virus, you're at least in 5 figures. non verifiable sources have put it in 6. thing about this outbreak is we're talking china, there's been accounts of calling something fake, then a rumor, then real a week later - that's the story of them cremating the bodies. media isn't well equipped to dealing with a lying state who ultimately pays them, meaning the only real news we get is going to come on the ground. it's all pretty horrifying. even the 4 "hospitals" built are a joke, unsurprisingly, with guards in containment cells and basically oversized wrangling sticks. they don't even count the dead properly either, nevermind the fact that they can only do a couple thousand tests a day to verify it, not every hospital death counts and deaths outside the hospital don't count. if you ain't confirmed to have had it, you don't count. if your corpse turned to ash before it could count, you also don't count.

they're getting it up the ass though because at the same time of the coronavirus they're getting hit with another strain of the bird flu too.

bring out the cages.
open borders are a no go.

I think 5 to 6 figures is craziness, but they definitely have not been able to contain it. It just spread to someone in Pakistan, so if that goes into India there will be insane numbers coming up.

It is now at 25k cases and 400+ deaths. Wuhan is basically overrun and unable to cope with the disease anymore. The doctor who tried to whistleblow the situation from the start has died from "exhaustion". The deaths and numbers are definitely higher than reported, but I doubt it is into the tens of thousands of deaths.

Japan was being criticized for not letting the cruise ships dock in their country to quarantine them instead of doing so on the cruise ship. However, Japan is supposed to host the Olympics in a few months, which they should probably cancel, so they are doing everything they can to keep it from their country.

The most startling thing besides the major uptick in cases after people started casting doubt in numbers China was reporting is that the death numbers in everywhere outside of Wuhan seem low compared to the Wuhan rates. It is very likely, many think, that these are being not reported.

The WHO keeps telling people to not restrict travel to China, but we keep hearing cases of travel simply by people that lied causing major issues. One man is said to have lied about going to Wuhan and having after gone to many festivals with upwards of 5k+ people at them, while infected.

We have a cruise ship off the coast now with 4700 passengers where there is ten confirmed cases so far.

The person to person transmission prior to symptoms is possible but the case that proved it has been debunked. People can reacquire the virus even after being recovered from it. They keep saying mortality is basically only really affecting those over 60 years old (80% of deaths) and the underlying conditions are present in the majority of cases, but we also know that Wuhan is basically unable to keep up with the supply of people and has basically no more room. There are pictures of IV drips happening in cars outside and of people being sent home due to no room even though they are in bad shape. And, the numbers are skyrocketing daily. We should be over 30k cases within a day or two. Probably 40k by the end of the week.

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you know crazy?
foxconn is staying closed for another week.

what plague has to exist to shut down a place using borderline slave labor for over two weeks? just go off of the practices happening over there instead of the numbers because it'll paint a much clearer picture.

and you absolutely restrict travel to china. this is one of those viruses where the overreaction is correct because the government is massively downplaying it. and again, you can't trust the number of cases because that number is literally the amount that they're able to test a day being added on. maybe i'm misremembering the reporting and it's not deaths but infections - over 100,000 infections were estimated a week ago if that's what it was. in which case yeah i'm way off but uhhh... probably closer to five figures than 500 people. you've got over 50 million quarantined and it ain't working.

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Wanglicious posted...

honestly i'm in the camp saying china has been lying from day 1, it's a global pandemic already, and the WHO is trash on matters related to china. you want to talk deaths due to the virus, you're at least in 5 figures. non verifiable sources have put it in 6.

Hate to burst your conspiracy bubble but the general populace of China is censored but not isolated. Mass casualties in such a short time like you are implying absolutely would get reported/leaked. It's likely underreported by a small margin but to that extreme its going to be a hard nope. Partly on the grounds that the disease simply isn't that deadly to a healthy populace.

Now, this isn't to understate how important it is to get this thing under control. Because casualties, especially in China, are absolutely going to get worse before they get better.

Wanglicious posted...

you know crazy?
foxconn is staying closed for another week.

This isn't that crazy. Disney has already announced its Shanghai and Hong Kong parks are expected to be closed for two months.

a "small margin."
i see so when there's news like this one crematory saying that since the virus they're working 24/7, have needed over 100 body bags a day for over a week now, it's a small margin. one place is doubling the stated death count. one.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/funeral-home-worker-in-wuhan-epicenter-of-coronavirus-we-are-working-24-7-to-cremate-bodies_3227432.html

these numbers are being reported, they are coming out in media. but they aren't being listened to that much or outright called lies. again, the idea that china was cremating bodies with the coronavirus came out and almost instantly our major networks called it fake. this is despite having statements, audio, and video.
two to three days later, a rumor.
three days after that, china admit it.

same how we know the limitation of the number of infections is based off of testing supplies. that's it. that's coming straight out of chinese citizens.
same way a crapton of bags full of ashes keep coming out... in reports, with video, by chinese citizens.


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Leafeon13N posted...

This isn't that crazy. Disney has already announced its Shanghai and Hong Kong parks are expected to be closed for two months.

...you're comparing a sweatshop that borders on slavery to amusement parks.
foxconn being closed means china loses billions of dollars. they are not producing anything for 2+ weeks.

and you're comparing that to amusement park closures, with hong kong of all places as your location of choice.


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Wanglicious posted...

you know crazy?
foxconn is staying closed for another week.

what plague has to exist to shut down a place using borderline slave labor for over two weeks? just go off of the practices happening over there instead of the numbers because it'll paint a much clearer picture.

and you absolutely restrict travel to china. this is one of those viruses where the overreaction is correct because the government is massively downplaying it. and again, you can't trust the number of cases because that number is literally the amount that they're able to test a day being added on. maybe i'm misremembering the reporting and it's not deaths but infections - over 100,000 infections were estimated a week ago if that's what it was. in which case yeah i'm way off but uhhh... probably closer to five figures than 500 people. you've got over 50 million quarantined and it ain't working.

Well, there are some saying the infection numbers me by ten times higher than reported for a myriad of reasons, which would go into six figures. Also, there is a social media statistic supposedly from a real inside server of China with the supposed real numbers (150k+ infected. 30k+ dead). However I truly doubt that is real. Macau shut down their casinos also.

I mean, it is definitely serious. I just don't think 100k+ are dead as you stated.

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Wanglicious posted...

...you're comparing a sweatshop that borders on slavery to amusement parks

Yes.

I think you underestimate how much Disney and the Chinese company with financial and operational control in the foreign park like money.

Wanglicious posted...

a "small margin."
i see so when there's news like this one crematory saying that since the virus they're working 24/7, have needed over 100 body bags a day for over a week now, it's a small margin. one place is doubling the stated death count. one.

Do you know how many body bags they typically use in a day?

Also, yes, has been social media of what appears to be unreported deaths, and social media accusing China of attacking people posting on social media and taking them away to "quarantine" them.

Hard to know what is true with that, but what does seem to be certain is that anyone who dies prior to getting diagnosed, is not getting counted into the numbers. And, they are literally out of tests, that apparently cost like 2k a piece to use and have a failure rate due to the uncertainty of the virus also.

The r0 is projected to be between 2.2 and 3.1 which is highly contagious. That means everyone who has it is likely to spread it to 2 - 3 people. Luckily, it is being reported the mortality rate isn't that great, but some worry this is being underreported also.

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Corrik7 posted...

Luckily, it is being reported the mortality rate isn't that great, but some worry this is being underreported

It is probably correct due to the cases that have spread outside of China.

Mind you, the rate will end up higher in China just due to the lack of resources to treat all the infected.

https://mobile.twitter.com/HimalayaGlobal/status/1224784348961918976

Yeah, the mortality rate is basically non-existent outside of Wuhan right now in comparison. We will see.

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decided to look up what it was.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7966081/Wuhan-medic-says-coronavirus-deaths-infections-reported.html

A Wuhan medic has said there are more deaths from coronavirus than reported, as patients are dying before they can even be tested for the virus.

Hospital worker Jeisi Luo, not his real name, also made the shocking claim that there are far more cases than official figures suggest, because the waiting list for diagnosis is too long.

Official figures from China claim there are 24,000 cases in the country, with 13,522 of these recorded in the virus epicentre and surrounding Hubei province, although the actual figure is suspected to be higher.

A video emerged two weeks ago from the province of a medical worker claiming there are as many as 90,000 cases in the city.

Footage filmed at Wuhan's Number Three hospital this week showed eight body bags loaded in a bus, with more allegedly added while the recorder was inside the hospital for five minutes.

so my six figure claim would've been infected of 2 weeks ago, not deaths. my bad on that.
although my 5 figure deaths would be more recent, 1-3 days. mixed them up.

Mr Luo warned that the problem lies in an inability to carry out enough nucleic acid tests (NAT), which diagnose the virus.

'When preliminary tests determine that a patient has a lung sickness, the nucleic acid test which detects the virus, cannot always be carried out because the waiting list is too long,' he told DW. 'The patient is therefore not diagnosed.'

He said medics were dealing with this crisis by 'prescribing medicine' and sending patients home to 'self-isolate'.

this ain't the only report, there's multiple accounts of this. two weeks ago i think the limit was 1000/day could be tested so we got around 1000 extra a day. that number became 2k last week, now higher, though i don't know exactly what. but the general idea went that they could diagnose around 1-2k a day so the rest don't count. if you die first, well, you didn't count. there's also reports of some cremations being done purposefully without any testing so those also don't count.

but again, it's being reported.
just heavily downplayed or not taken seriously by a lot of the usual press. the hundreds of videos, audio, and statements seen by chinese citizens are wildly different than, say, CNN or statements by WHO. like you'd think with the way they talk about new hospitals being built they'd mean, y'know, hospitals, not rows of beds next to each other in what's clearly a gigantic death zone of everything (bird flu says hi).

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Leafeon13N posted...

Do you know how many body bags they typically use in a day?

i don't, no. but from the article it's way more than usual. as these are not normal conditions:

We need to pick up bodies when they [hospitals, communities, or family members of the deceased] call us. Every day, we need at least 100 body bags, he said.

His workplace is required to pick up bodies from the Wuhan Tongji Hospital, Wuhan No. 13 Hospital, the newly built Huoshenshan Hospital, and other small hospitals, as well as any residences that request its services.

Yun says hes spoken with workers at other Wuhan funeral homes, who are also overwhelmed.

Almost all staff at each funeral home in Wuhan are fully equipped, and all Wuhan cremation chambers are working 24 hours, he said.

The worker said staff can only sit on their chairs and nap whenever they get a chance.

We cant stop because we cant leave the bodies outside for a long time, he said.

especially when you consider the locations they're grabbing them from. it's the hospitals with infected.
oh, and there's this little gem in that first article i gave:

At hospitals, family members also are prohibited from seeing the bodies.

Some of the deceased had hospital records, but many do notbecause they could not receive prompt hospital treatment before their deaths or died waiting, he said.

Those are treated as unknown reason [for cause of death], Yun said.

ain't that nice? no records because you died waiting.
you just go missing and died of something.

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Wanglicious posted...

i don't, no. but from the article it's way more than usual. as these are not normal conditions:

especially when you consider the locations they're grabbing them from. it's the hospitals with infected.
oh, and there's this little gem in that first article i gave:

ain't that nice? no records because you died waiting.
you just go missing and died of something.

This is the supposed leaked numbers. I doubt the truthfulness of these though.

https://twitter.com/WarsontheBrink/status/1224760304606859269?s=20

It has been reported this virus may have mutated to transmit easier human to human. And it has been reported that Asians may have more receptors in their lungs which make them more susceptible to the virus. Who knows.

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Corrik7 posted...

https://mobile.twitter.com/HimalayaGlobal/status/1224784348961918976

Yeah, the mortality rate is basically non-existent outside of Wuhan right now in comparison. We will see.

the worst would be Wuhan and the regions around it. and yeah, stuff like you posted exists, where you just "die of pneumonia" is one of the common tactics under-reporting numbers. technically might be the cause of death mind you, the coronavirus is known to allow infections like that to easily occur. initial reports of the first 99 people had 3/4 with pneumonia, so lung damage and respiratory issues are expected. there's a notable uptick of that currently as a direct result and while the exact relationship isn't fully known yet but we know it can cause it from at least two different ways: directly when your lungs are infected and a secondary bacterial infection. the latter is how you get it with the flu. the first isn't and is more common. the body's immune system gets compromised pretty harshly.

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