Board 8 > ~ The Gauntlet Crew Ranks Movie Musicals, Part 2: The Golden Age ~

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Vengeful_KBM
01/13/20 12:26:13 PM
#1:


Welcome to yet another Gauntlet Crew ranking project! About three years ago, towards the end of 2016, I hosted the first installment in the Gauntlet Crew Ranks Movie Musicals trilogy. Out of the thirty films ranked in that project, Little Shop of Horrors came out on top, becoming (I believe) the first project winner that was unanimously a part of every ranker's top ten.

It is now 2020, and the time has come to rank more movie musicals! This list is comprised of movies that didn't make the cut on the first list for one reason or another, but still have some cultural relevance, whether they were well-received by audiences or critics, were awards darlings in their day, have become cult classics, or really any other reason. This time around, as you might expect from the topic title, there are more entries from the "Golden Age of Movie Musicals," generally considered to comprise the period from the '40s and '50s, when movie musicals were among the most popular films in Hollywood and the rest of the Western world, through the genre's eventual decline due to skyrocketing budgets and middling critical reviews in the mid '60s.

The definition of "movie musical" has been slightly expanded this time through; I'm still limiting the list to theatrical releases (however limited, in the case of films like Repo! The Genetic Opera), but featuring a few more movies that might be considered more of a "movie about music" rather than "musicals" by purists, in which the performances are all a diegetic part of the story (such as 42nd Street, The Blues Brothers, and the various versions of A Star Is Born). There are also a couple of sequels and remakes for good measure, and even a foreign film to keep things interesting.

Our seven stalwart rankers this time are:

Genny
Inviso
Johnbobb
JONA
Karo
KBM
Scarlet

And, of course, here is the list of 35 films that were ranked for this list:

42nd Street (1933)
On the Town (1949)
Gentlemen Prefer Blondes (1953)
Kiss Me Kate (1953)
A Star is Born (1954)
Guys and Dolls (1955)
Jailhouse Rock (1957)
South Pacific (1958)
The Umbrellas of Cherbourg (or: Les parapluies de Cherbourg) (1964)
Help! (1965)
A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum (1966)
Doctor Dolittle (1967)
How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying (1967)
Oliver! (1968)
1776 (1972)
Phantom of the Paradise (1974)
A Star is Born (1976)
The Wiz (1978)
All That Jazz (1979)
Hair (1979)
Fame (1980)
The Blues Brothers (1980)
Yentl (1983)
Dancer in the Dark (2000)
Hedwig and the Angry Inch (2001)
The Phantom of the Opera (2004)
Rent (2005)
Dreamgirls (2006)
Repo! The Genetic Opera (2008)
The Last Five Years (2014)
Into the Woods (2014)
La La Land (2016)
The Greatest Showman (2017)
Mamma Mia! Here We Go Again (2018)
A Star is Born (2018)
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Vengeful_KBM
01/13/20 12:27:36 PM
#2:


As a matter of course, here are the amount of points each film scored based on the total placements of our seven rankers.

37
52
61
78
79
82
83
95
99
99
102
105
109
110
112
113
120
123
131
136
136
141
146
147
149
155
157
163
170
171
187
189
190
191
192

Ties will be broken by removing the highest and lowest scores. As you can see, the Bottom 5 ended up VERY close together.

Our first ranking will come in about an hour or two or three. Stay tuned!
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PrinceKaro
01/13/20 12:29:53 PM
#3:


tag

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Congrats to Advokaiser on being really good at predicting stuff
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Espeon
01/13/20 12:30:34 PM
#4:


Tag

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Snake5555555555
01/13/20 12:31:09 PM
#5:


A Star is Born 2018 for #1!

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VengefulKaelee
01/13/20 12:38:18 PM
#6:


And I'm going to tag on my phone~

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~KBM on her phone~
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Johnbobb
01/13/20 12:54:47 PM
#7:


Tag

legitimately have very little idea how things will go

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Raka_Putra
01/13/20 1:02:12 PM
#8:


Ooh tag! Great way to start 2020.
I've watched 15 of these and mostly towards the end of the list.

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Into the woods, but mind the future!
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Vengeful_KBM
01/13/20 1:19:16 PM
#9:


35. A Star Is Born (1976)

Karo: 21
KBM: 23
Johnbobb: 24
Inviso: 30
Genny: 31
JONA: 31
Scarlet: 32

Karo - This is a remake of the 1952 film except everyone is singers instead of actors. It doesnt drag on as much as its predecessor, but commits one unspeakable sin. It fucks up the ending. The guy does not commit suicide, but rather just dies randomly in a car accident. All meaning of his death is now gone, replaced by arbitrary bullshit.
Also, Streisand just doesnt feel right playing the character of an 'ordinary girl', and it makes her rise to stardom feel empty somehow.
It ends up being a glossed up remake in the vein of Disney - without much of a point, no reason for its existence, and shits on everything about the original.

Score: 54/100

Best Song: 'I Believe in Love'

KBM - Why I Chose It: Aside from the fact that it's one of three musical adaptations of this story and I decided to include all of them, this also was nominated for several major awards, winning an Oscar for Best Original Song (Evergreen), as well as five Golden Globes, including for Streisand, Kristofferson, and the Best Picture Musical or Comedy award. Though it received a lukewarm reception from critics, especially as compared with the other versions, it was a major box office hit in 1976, and remains a favorite of many to this day, especially among Barbra's fanbase.

My Thoughts: It's A Star Is Born... but with a generous helping of 70s sexy! This is such a blatant vanity project for Barbra Streisand, and yet, it's not like there aren't things to enjoy about it. The soundtrack, featuring contributions from several different major pop composers of the '70s, including Paul Williams, Kenny Loggins, and Streisand herself, has a lot of really good songs, and Barbra sings them beautifully. I particularly like the Paul Williams/Kenny Ascher-penned numbers The Woman in the Moon and Watch Closely Now from a compositional perspective. Still, despite her beautiful singing voice, Barbra does tend to feel distractingly miscast at times, with Kristofferson proving the much more interesting character study in this version. Even though it's shorter than both the 1954 and 2018 versions, I also feel like this is the one with the biggest pacing problems, with nowhere near the same level of emotional impact as the other two takes on the story. It's worth it for the stronger songs on the soundtrack, but from a storytelling perspective, this one kind of falls flat.

Favorite Song: Finale: With One More Look at You / Watch Closely Now

Johnbobb - Funny enough, my thoughts on this A Star is Born are kind of opposite to my thoughts on the 1954 version. While I feel like in '54 Audrey Hepburn really had to carry the rest of the cast, I feel like that role falls onto Kris Kristofferson here, who plays a disturbingly convincing rock star on a steep decline. Barbara Streishand can sing, sure, but she can't really act the same way that Hepburn and Gaga could in their respective takes on the same role. Of the three Star is Born musicals, this is definitely the weakest, but it's not by a particularly huge gap. That being said, being the 3rd best of a movie that's been made 3 times (not counting the original) isn't exactly a compliment either.

Inviso - This one really suffers from being a remake, and being a remake of a movie that we already had to watch for this list (spoilers for 1954s placement). Nothing about this film really works for me. Barbara Streisand is a fine actress, and she has had good performances in films weve watched before (I think I had Funny Girl in my top five on the prior list). But in the role of a nave, young songstressshe just lacks the innocence. She comes across as extremely mature, right off the bat, and the film doesnt do a good job of building her up over time. Shes just immediately thrust into the spotlight, and this where I think this version pales compared to the 1954 version. Judy Garlands character is more than just a musician: shes a musician-turned-actress. And I think this allows for a greater display of progression as a character. Barbara doesnt get this. One moment shes a back-up singer (who looks completely out of place in that role), and she just skyrockets to a Grammy, without any real sense of pitfalls along the way.

It doesnt help that the male lead is awful in this, again, comparing negatively to the 1954 version. Were introduced to him as this big rock star with a massive stadium filled with cheering fansyet hes just CONSTANTLY a dick to everyone around him. It is utterly baffling that someone like him would give enough of a shit to try and help boost Barbaras profile. But more than thatthe change from a washed-up movie star to a washed-up musicianit completely fails the story. It makes SENSE for someone to be unable to grow with the times in the movie business. A lot of actors and actresses fill a niche role at a certain age, and they cant adapt as they get older. But likethe Rolling Stones are still fucking touring, for fucks sake. Its baffling to think this guy could spiral so far, so hard, as a musician. Which perhaps accounts for how much of a complete shithead he isto justify his eventual death. It just doesnt work for me at all.

Genny - I like Barbara Streisand, but this iteration of A Star is Born did the least for me for reasons I can't explain. I think a part of it was her counterpart. Both Norman and Jackson Maine were more charismatic, and I just didn't connect as well with this version of a character I felt I'd seen before.

JONA - While Barbara Streisand is great and has some nice performances of the songs, the songs themselves are unmemorable and there is no chemistry between her and Kris Kristofferson. Take those factors and combine that with a long, boring, but not outright bad, runtime of two and a half hours and youve got an unenjoyable time.
Favorite Song: N/A

Scarlet - The worst of the Born-Star quadrilogy, Kristofferson and Streisand just dont have a script to work with or the best of chemistry. The editing is also bizarre, smacking of low budget incompetence. But, hey! Gary Busey shows up.
Best Song: Watch Closely Now
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Vengeful_KBM
01/13/20 1:23:41 PM
#10:


An Outlier Is Born:

Karo: 14
KBM: 12
Johnbobb: 11
Inviso: 5
Genny: 4
JONA: 4
Scarlet: 4

With no one actually having A Star is Born (1976) in their Bottom 3, everyone gains a few points.

Also I laughed out loud when I read Johnbobb's write-up - meaning no offense at all, I think that's the first time I've ever seen Audrey Hepburn confused with Judy Garland.
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Johnbobb
01/13/20 1:38:13 PM
#11:


Vengeful_KBM posted...
With no one actually having A Star is Born (1976) in their Bottom 3
oh shit that's insane

Vengeful_KBM posted...
Also I laughed out loud when I read Johnbobb's write-up - meaning no offense at all, I think that's the first time I've ever seen Audrey Hepburn confused with Judy Garland.
...I swear on anything that I knew that was Judy Garland. I even specifically mentioned Judy Garland in the ASIB1954 writeup. I have no idea why I wrote Audrey Hepburn here.

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JONALEON1
01/13/20 3:39:02 PM
#12:


scarlet should have 3 points

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Advokaiser was wiser against all the other Gurus!
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GenesisSaga
01/13/20 4:26:52 PM
#13:


I rather liked "Go to Hell". Watch Closely Now was catchy at first, but it's played out pretty quickly because it's used so profusely in the film. Maybe that's just me though.

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scarletspeed7
01/13/20 6:34:35 PM
#14:


Fair, next.

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MetalmindStats
01/13/20 9:17:14 PM
#15:


Snake5555555555 posted...
La La Land for #1!
FTFY.

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"I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people who do."
You won the CBX Guru Contest, Advokaiser! Bully for you!
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Vengeful_KBM
01/14/20 12:57:42 AM
#16:


34. Jailhouse Rock (1957)

JONA: 18
Genny: 23
Johnbobb: 25
Inviso: 27
Scarlet: 30
Karo: 33
KBM: 35

JONA - This movie is all about Elvis and his character. He does a great job at showing the characters attitude. He also has some good chemistry with Peggy. Theres not much about this movie to write home about but its just kinda enjoyable.
Favorite Song: Jailhouse Rock

Genny - While Mr. Presley is undeniably charismatic and handsome on the screen there is something that leaves me cold about his character when he's not singing and/or dancing. Perhaps it's that an event that should have drastically affected his life ends up merely mildly inconveniencing him because Vince is charismatic and handsome, particularly when he's singing and/or dancing. Or perhaps it's because he blows off his relationships with the friends that stuck by him in the tougher times but he's forgiven because... he's charismatic and handsome, particularly when he's singing and/or dancing.

Johnbobb - Jailhouse Rock is pretty good. It doesn't rewrite any formulas or do much explicitly new, but it's a fairly solid film with an interesting lead. I can appareciate that instead of playing up Presley's character as the perfect prettyboy, it always has him getting in his own way, and doesn't hesitate to make him look like an asshole. Ultimately I dont feel like theres a whole lot I can say about it though. For the most part, it was what I expected it to be.
Favorite song: Jailhouse Rock

Inviso - While I respect this film for having a coherent plot (namely the rise of a young musician to a position of prominence), Ive gotta sayElvis Pressleys character is just a detestable asshole in this film. You would think, if youre gonna have the main character be a guy who killed a guy in a bar fight, you would go out of your way to make him more sympathetic. But aside from getting played by the studio on his initial attempt at a record, pretty much everything Elvis does goes smoothly, yet he just becomes more and more of a jackass as time goes on. Even when hes in prison, he turns down offers of help to be a stubborn dickwad. And this all culminates in his getting his ass beat with like, five minutes left in the movie, having the fastest turnaround on his bad behavior imaginable, and everyone lives happily ever after. After a whole movie of him being a douche. Yeah, this just didnt work for me. It didnt even have an exciting pace to keep me interested. It was justbland.

Scarlet - Its the Shawshank Redemption of Elvis Presley movies.
Best Song: (Ironically enough) Jailhouse Rock

Karo - So this delinquent gets thrown in the clink for beating a man to death, and after a few awkward singing lessons from an old cowboy, becomes a rock superstar. Yes, seriously.
There are so many problems here it is hard to know where to begin. Elvis can't act to save his life, his character is an obnoxious asshole, and even his singing is mostly missing the mojo you'd expect.
The writers constantly want us to feel empathy for this twit and pull for him just because he is Elvis and he's such a cool bad boy and can do no wrong and oh my god please stop.
This fucker needs a lot more than a punch in the throat to set him right. He also needs to be at punched in the nose, the balls, the teeth, and maybe have his legs run over with a cement mixer a few times for good measure.
It just is a dull, unoriginal piece of crap that seems to be willed into being just to make money off the face of a music superstar, and intended solely for an audience of horny teenage girls who want to fuck Elvis Presley.
He may be nothing but a hounddog, but this pooch needs to be taken out back behind the barn and put out of its misery. Or at least out of everyone else's misery.

Score: 26/100

KBM - Why I Chose It: Well, for one thing, there were no Elvis Presley star vehicles on the list last time, which were such a huge staple of the late-'50s and '60s. I chose Jailhouse Rock, one of his earliest movies, because it is probably the most well-remembered of the bunch, thanks in large part to the iconic Jailhouse Rock song-and-dance number. It was added to the National Film Regristry in 2004.

My Thoughts: This was painful to watch. While self-consciously attempting to cash in on Elvis' (at the time) controversial, bad-boy persona, it does so behind such a thick veneer of 1950's Hollywood schmaltz that it's just impossible to take seriously. Beyond that, Elvis was just... not a good actor. Like, at all. His performance in this is at times so bad that it's laughable, and though I've definitely seen plenty of media where the lead character is an unlikable asshole, you need an actor with at least some screen presence to carry that kind of thing off, and Elvis absolutely fails to do so here. Plus, outside of the title number, the direction and cinematography are so flat and uninspired that it does nothing at all to help matters, making the rest of the film feel even more lifeless by comparison to the title song. Tragically, the only person I thought did a halfway decent acting job in the movie, leading lady Judy Tyler, died along with her husband in a car crash days after the end of production, prompting a grief-stricken Elvis to skip the premiere. Though there are movies up to 25 years older than this on the list, I would go so far as to say that this is the most dated-feeling movie on the entire list.

Favorite Song: Jailhouse Rock
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Vengeful_KBM
01/14/20 1:03:01 AM
#17:


Outlier Rock:

Johnbobb: 20
JONA: 20
Genny: 15
Karo: 15
KBM: 13
Inviso: 12
Scarlet: 7

Johnbobb and JONA surge to the top of the outlier standings, as my own #35 is the first one to drop. Fun facts: this was comfortably in last place the entire way until JONA's rankings (the last list to come in) were submitted. So we can all blame him for nudging it out of last place by a single point. :P
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GenesisSaga
01/14/20 10:51:17 AM
#18:


I'm not disappointed by this. Vince was indeed a handsome charismatic dickwad.

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VengefulKaelee
01/14/20 2:04:20 PM
#19:


Amusing that four of us used the word "asshole" in our write-ups. It really is the perfect word to describe the character!

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Snake5555555555
01/14/20 2:51:25 PM
#20:


Jailhouse Rock was one of the few films I managed to catch that I hadn't seen already. I found it kind of charming actually, I think I would've had it low-mid range on my rankings. Although it may be slightly colored by the fact that I was having a bit of an Elvis phase at the time.

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JONALEON1
01/14/20 3:08:54 PM
#21:


Sweet, I helped make Gauntlet Crew Ranks history.

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WickIebee
01/14/20 3:14:00 PM
#22:


Still really sucks that I've had to miss two of these projects. First Musicals we were moving and I didn't have internet (or enough movies downloaded) to keep up with the project. Didn't have internet because our provider screwed up like 3 visits, so we had to change providers which then didn't give us internet till after the holidays.

Then this year I was watching movies at a pretty slow pace, and pushed myself to watch one one day, to find out I apparently didn't have the last third of the movie, so lost a lot of motivation to try and fix that as family started visiting and my grandmother was moving down. Then I started a seasonal job, which actually already started messing with me trying to do the Ladder contest. Can only pray I don't have moving issues when KBM's next project comes around.

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StifledSilence
01/14/20 3:24:04 PM
#23:


Oh...fuck. I've been so busy the past few months, I completely forgot about this. I'm sorry, KBM. All these kids and holidays and wedding plans have fried my brain.

Here's hoping Blues Brothers didn't suffer because of it!

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The Empire of Silence
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Vengeful_KBM
01/14/20 3:37:48 PM
#24:


33. Mamma Mia! Here We Go Again(2018)

KBM: 19
JONA: 21
Scarlet: 25
Inviso: 31
Johnbobb: 31
Karo: 31
Genny: 32

KBM - Why I Chose It: The sequel to 2008's mega-blockbuster Mamma Mia!, which was based on the smash Broadway jukebox musical of the same name, Mamma Mia! Here We Go Again managed to be a moderate surprise of its own, managing not only a nearly $400 million gross worldwide but also an 80% rating from critics on Rotten Tomatoes, many of whom described the film as better than the original.

My Thoughts: I love ABBA. And, as it turns out, all it really takes for one to enjoy this movie, at least on the level of a guilty pleasure, is to love ABBA. In fact, hell, I tend to agree with a lot of the critics: I think this movie is better than the first one. While the plot (or what passes for one at least) is certainly a lot weaker than the first movie, which was pretty light in story to begin with, I felt the sequel made up for it with more competent direction and better musical performances. With the likes of Pierce Brosnan and Stellan Skarsgrd relegated to either mumbling a single verse of a song in a low key or singing mercifully undermixed background vocals, the musical numbers are put on the shoulders of people who can actually sing, like Lily James, who does a great job as the young Donna, and the various no-name stage actors they got to portray the young versions of the dads in the flashbacks. Now, there were still definitely some things that didn't work most of the comedy fell flat and as I said, the plot was as thin as they come but after the first couple numbers, I found myself completely unbothered and just kind of rocked out to the ABBA soundtrack, which this time included a lot of their more underrated deep cuts alongside the overplayed hits (which really didn't need reprises in this movie, but I guess everyone expects to hear Dancing Queen and Super Trouper so whatever, it's fine). Cher was also a highlight in her limited role, and I wish she'd gotten more screentime (her rendition of Fernando proving she's Still Got It even in her 70s). I'm not too proud to admit that I even got a bit choked up maybe even more than a bit when Meryl showed up as a Force Ghost towards the end to sing her duet with Amanda Seyfried. So yeah, not a masterpiece by any stretch of the imagination, but a movie I thoroughly enjoyed watching nonetheless... at least, once I got past the paper-thin premise and corny jokes.

Favorite Song: Either My Love, My Life or When I Kissed the Teacher

JONA - Mamma Mia 2: Pay Suicida is a very unnecessary prequel/sequel. Seeing a new cast for the younger versions of characters does help make things fresher but the story doesnt add anything too substantial. The storyline in the present is just plain dull though. Who the hell cares about story when watching Mamma Mia 2 though? These movies are pretty much excuses to listen to ABBA music and for older women to reminisce about being young again. While I dont fit in the latter half, I do like listening to ABBA music and its still great. Sucks that theres a decent number of repeats from the first movie though. Its understandable though since they are some of the more popular songs and it would be weird for a Mamma Mia movie to not have that song. It was a cool surprise to see Cher in the movie and she has a great number. Knowing Me, Knowing You was my favorite song that wasnt in the original, but it sucks that it didnt get much time. Grrr. Shutting down the arena! Still a stupid, fun time just like the original.
Favorite Song: Fernando

Scarlet - If youre going to make a pointless movie, at least do it with a loaded cast and relish the stupidity. If you think about it, this tiny little Greek island has been terrorized for decades by ABBA. And not even the real ABBA. An ABBA comprised of Diane Lockhart, two British secret agents, a naked Scandinavian scientist, and Meryl Streep. Oh, and Jesse Custer is there too.
Best Song: Super Trouper

Inviso - This has gotta be one of the most unnecessary sequels Ive ever had the misfortune of watching. I didnt hate the original Mamma Mia TOO much. I admit that its far-inferior to the stage production, but thats neither here nor there. Its a perfectly acceptable musical, specifically written as to weave a story amongst the collected works of ABBA. But this? This feels like a blatant cash grab after the first movie did decently at the box office. There are several repeat songs, but for the most part, the soundtrack feels forced into a plot that was created SOLELY to make a sequel its not fun to watch by any stretch of the imagination. I never gave a shit about Sophie in the first movie. Meryl Streep was the selling point. Yet the whole plot revolves around her being dead, and we only see Donna in her young, teenaged form. Hell, Cher was another selling point, yet HER character shows up 2/3 of the way through the movie, and her characterization is rushed SO fast that she might as well not even exist. This was just extremely sloppy, and I cant give it even a decent ranking this time.

Johnbobb - man this was just... I mean the songs were fine and the costuming was solid, but man was this uninspired in pretty much every way. The Dancing Girl performance in particular was just horribly forced. Plus the movie reuses FOUR songs from first one? This just really isn't a movie that needed to exist.
Favorite song: When I Kissed the Teacher

Karo - So apparently Donna has randomly died for reasons that arent explained (though it was probably liver failure), and Sophie has taken over her dream of building a resort in such an absurdly remote location that it would go broke within a year.
Cue flashbacks of Donna globetrotting around the world, fucking lots of men and possibly a goat and a horse. Yes, we know mommy was a slut, do we really need spend half the damn movie going into the lurid details? It is still anyone's guess who Sophie's father is, but given how she acted in the first movie I'm betting on the goat.
Hey, you thought the first movie's soap opera storyline was bad? Then wait until you get a load of this idiotic drivel that is written like the fanfiction of a sexually repressed 40 year old woman.
Mamma Mia absolutely did not need a sequel. You know what really needs a sequel? Pompeii. On this island. Before they make a fucking third movie about these fucking characters.

Score: 27/100

Best Song: 'When I Kissed the Teacher'

Genny - I cannot say that I'm a huge fan of ABBA outside of one or two songs, so to summarize this entire film I just wasn't that into it. I feel like it didn't need to exist which
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Vengeful_KBM
01/14/20 3:43:04 PM
#25:


Outlier Queen:

JONA: 32
KBM: 27
Johnbobb: 22
Karo: 17
Genny: 16
Scarlet: 15
Inviso: 14

As the two people who thought Mamma Mia! 2 was all right, JONA and I take the lead in an outlier race that's currently closer on the bottom end than it is on the top. I'll also take this moment to remind y'all that this project's Bottom 5 are separated by a mere 6 points, so you can almost certainly blame me for this one not taking last.
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Vengeful_KBM
01/14/20 3:50:42 PM
#26:


Strange Johnbobb typo number 2: "Dancing Girl" lololol

Also, JONA, I have to ask, what does "Pay Suicida" mean in this context? Probably a joke that's just flying over my head
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Johnbobb
01/14/20 4:35:49 PM
#27:


Vengeful_KBM posted...
Mamma Mia absolutely did not need a sequel. You know what really needs a sequel? Pompeii. On this island. Before they make a fucking third movie about these fucking characters.
this is my favorite line from a Karo write-up to date

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Johnbobb
01/14/20 4:36:44 PM
#28:


Vengeful_KBM posted...
Strange Johnbobb typo number 2: "Dancing Girl" lololol
idk what was up with me

I need to proofread better

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Vengeful_KBM
01/14/20 5:01:14 PM
#29:


Johnbobb posted...
this is my favorite line from a Karo write-up to date

I think Karo's write-ups for this project just in general are my favorites that he's done. There are some more absolute gems coming up.
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JONALEON1
01/14/20 9:50:52 PM
#30:


Vengeful_KBM posted...
Strange Johnbobb typo number 2: "Dancing Girl" lololol

Also, JONA, I have to ask, what does "Pay Suicida" mean in this context? Probably a joke that's just flying over my head

It's a wrestling joke.

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scarletspeed7
01/14/20 9:59:14 PM
#31:


Sorry, really busy right now, but nothing to say so far. These all seem like logical eliminations!

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v_charon
01/14/20 9:59:29 PM
#32:


Vengeful_KBM posted...
187
189
190
191
192


This is definitely interesting, I'm not sure I've ever seen something quite like this at the bottom in any of the many projects.
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Truly smilin'
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Raka_Putra
01/14/20 10:55:14 PM
#33:


I haven't watched Mamma Mia 2 and I kinda want to. I'm sure it's mostly harmless.

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Vengeful_KBM
01/14/20 11:52:18 PM
#34:


32. South Pacific

Karo: 19
Johnbobb: 23
Genny: 24
Scarlet: 24
KBM: 32
Inviso: 33
JONA: 34

Karo - The acclaimed Rogers & Hammerstein musical about tropical islands and lens filter effects.
There are two storylines, a romance between a nurse and a fugitive frenchman, and some soldiers trying to get to a fabled island which is apparently like a magical brothel or something.
Basically the movie follows these two plots as they entangle with each other and WWII, and then the whole world turns a bright yellow or magenta for no reason.
Much like 'The King and I', it paradoxically seems like it wants to be culturally progressive while still promoting ignorant stereotypes. They spend the whole movie trying to make up for 'herro rewtenant, you soh saxxy!' and maybe about break even.

Score: 57/100

Best Song: 'There is Nothing Like a Dame'

Johnbobb - I can really appreciate this movie for what it attempts to do, especially given the time period in which it attempts to do it. The Polynesian stereotypes don't hold up so well, but the message does, as do the majority of the songs. "I'm in Love with a Wonderful Guy" will always have a spot in my mind, but you can blame Fallout 4 for that. "There Is Nothing Like a Dame" is funny and also gets bonus points for inspiring the best scene from Hail, Caesar! Bloody Mary is great, but unfortunately I didn't end up really caring about the rest of the central characters. That was really what stopped me from liking it more than I did. As nice as things like the message and coloring decisions were, I just wasn't invested much in the main story.
Favorite song: There is Nothing Like a Dame

Genny - I don't know what I enjoyed the most about South Pacific. Bloody Mary's antics were entertaining even when they included trying to marry her daughter off to a random "saxy" marine, and a few of the numbers are undeniably catchy (can definitely waggle my finger to Bali Ha'i). While not my favorite aspect, the bizarre use of color filters during the songs put a smile on my face.

Scarlet - South Pacific is boring, but I am always enchanted by the Rodgers and Hammerstein music. Some Enchanted Evening remains in my head forever and always, melancholy and sweet, always making the world a little misty for me.
Best Song: Some Enchanted Evening

KBM - Why I Chose It: Rodgers and Hammerstein's enduring hit musical about American troops in the South Pacific during World War II won ten Tonys and a Pulitzer Prize for its original 1949 Broadway run, and its 2008 Broadway revival also proved a huge success, winning seven Tonys of its own. After the success of the film adaptations of Oklahoma! in 1955 and Carousel in 1956, Joshua Logan, who co-authored the musical's book with Hammerstein, was hired to direct the film adaptation. It was a smash hit, becoming the highest-grossing film of 1958 by far, and receiving three Oscar nominations, winning the award for Best Sound.

My Thoughts: The best thing I can say about this movie is that its heart seems to be in the right place. But egad, is it dull. Full disclosure: I have never been a Rodgers and Hammerstein fan, although I'm willing to admit South Pacific, for all its flaws, is one of their better shows. But man, between the painfully literal, nearly beat-for-beat reenactment of the stage show, the weird, pointless color gels, the incredibly flat direction that half the time just leaves the performers awkwardly delivering their songs straight to the camera, and the added dialogue material on the airplanes, this one's an outright chore to sit through. That's to say nothing about the distracting dubbing (everyone but Mitzi Gaynor and Ray Walston not coincidentally the two best performances in the movie is dubbed by someone who sounds nothing like their speaking voice), and Rossano Brazzi's Emile de Becque being the most obviously Italian Frenchman in the world. And yeah, even though its heart is in the right place, the movie still falls victim to the... let's say questionable stereotypes that are very much a part of the show. (Happy Talk is always painful, and usually gets cut from the show these days, and I was wincing every time Bloody Mary called Cable Lootellan.) At least the shooting of the on-location scenery is nice. Fun facts: when I was in film school, the Bali Ha'i musical number was shown as an example of how not to direct a scene.

Favorite Song: Some Enchanted Evening
Least Favorite Song: I'm in love I'm in love I'm in love I'm in love I'm in love I'm in love I'm in love I'm in love I'm in love I'm in love I'm in love I'm in love I'm in love with a wonderful guyyyyyyyy

Inviso - Holy SHIT this movie was fucking boring. I mean, its possible to set a movie in a bland and serious setting (see: Les Miserables), but this failed on every goddamn level. Its attempts at injecting humor via the comic relief fail miserably. The Bloody Mary character, however it may have played back in the fifties, is uncomfortably racists to my, modern mind. The songs are completely forgettable, except for the one that I only know because Ive played Fallout 3. The plot is near-nonexistent: you have a nurse who falls in love with a French guy, but cant marry him because shes racist against his half-Asian children. And you have a lieutenant who seems like he SHOULD be the main character, but his whole role is to be kinda nice to the native population, but uncomfortable with relationships with them. Andits just really dumb and its a complete slog to get through. I hope this does poorly in the overall ranking.

JONA - So close to having Rodgers and Hammerstein being last in both musical lists. What ends up saving this is the interesting setting. Sadly, the dull two-and-a-half-hour movie is pretty much about two uninteresting relationships, with four uninteresting characters. Two of them barely know each other and one of them is sad that she cant get over her racism. Emile and Bloody Mary are alright though. The songs can be okay as well.
Favorite Song: I'm Gonna Wash That Man Right Outa My Hair
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Vengeful_KBM
01/14/20 11:55:23 PM
#35:


There is Nothing Like an Outlier

JONA: 33
Johnbobb: 31
Karo: 30
KBM: 27
Genny: 24
Scarlet: 23
Inviso: 15

JONA retains the outlier lead, just barely, to a surging Johnbobb and Karo, while Inviso's last-place position becomes by a much wider margin.
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Vengeful_KBM
01/15/20 2:51:21 PM
#37:


A couple of fun facts about our next ranking, to round out the Bottom 5:

  • It has the longest write-ups yet
  • The second #35 of the list will drop
  • It also has the highest top placement of the list yet (though not a Top 10 placement)
It'll probably only be the one post for today, seeing as it will round out our very close Bottom 5, so if anybody has any Hot Predix (or any further commentary whatsoever on South Pacific - though I understand if there's not, since most of us either said or implied it was boring in our write-ups), now is the time!
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PrinceKaro
01/15/20 3:26:55 PM
#38:


it is probably the wiz

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Congrats to Advokaiser on being really good at predicting stuff
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JONALEON1
01/15/20 5:10:48 PM
#39:


I will also guess The Wiz

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GenesisSaga
01/15/20 5:16:37 PM
#40:


Ease on down the road

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scarletspeed7
01/15/20 5:36:57 PM
#41:


Hopefully The Wiz, yeah.

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Johnbobb
01/15/20 5:56:47 PM
#42:


I wasn't going to guess The Wiz but now I will

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PSN/Steam: CheddarBBQ https://goo.gl/Diw2hs
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Espeon
01/15/20 6:20:40 PM
#43:


Really hope its one of the terrible early 2000s two-punch.

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Inviso's Most Adorabl-est Eeveelution Ever
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Vengeful_KBM
01/15/20 7:50:47 PM
#44:


31. The Wiz

Genny: 17
Inviso: 22
Johnbobb: 22
JONA: 28
Karo: 30
KBM: 33
Scarlet: 35

Genny - It's an urban take on The Wizard of Oz that doesn't come across as contrived or unnecessary (at least not to me) so what's not to like? Somehow I feel like it hasn't aged well and yet it's timeless simultaneously. I know it doesn't make much sense, but it was a fun romp.

Inviso - Its amazing to me (and this is gonna be spoilers for the list) that in the course of this list, Ive watched two films that are, in essence, remakes or reimaginings of Judy Garland movies, and in BOTH instances, Im reminded of how vital Judy Garland is to the success of this two films. The original Wizard of Oz, while not necessarily a film that sets my world on fire, worked in large part because Judy Garland was legitimately young and nave, and she was able to sell the wide-eyed fear of being thrust into the land of Oz. Diana Ross just feels too adult and mature to really sell this Im afraid of leaving home character. And in a way, I feel like the The Wiz is MORE of a musical than Wizard of Ozto its detriment. Because the movie felt the need to have song after song after song, there was less room for plot or character development. By the time Evilline shows up, comes almost out of nowhere, because shes never shown before the ending. I dunno. As much as I enjoyed the songs well enough, I just think they detracted from the film as a FILM.

Johnbobb - Still not sure how to feel about The Wiz. The whole thing is kind of a sight to behold. It's ridiculous and over-the-top with wild set design and mostly catchy songs. It's not an objectively great movie, but it is a fun one, and Diana Ross just kills it.
Favorite song: A Brand New Day

JONA - If only that W was upside-down, I would rank this at #3. The portrayal of Dorothy here is just awful. Shes absolutely pathetic and it gets really tiring seeing Diana Ross looking real scared like she dont want none. Diana Ross makes her so overemotional even when it comes to scenes where shes not crying. While this world of Oz seems interesting with its urban setting and how dark it is, it seems to play everything straight like its the same Oz like in the original. The Munchkins coming out of the wall, yet still being so cheerful is pretty frightening. I guess you could argue that its that way because its about Dorothy overcoming her fears shown in the beginning, but it just isnt a factor at the end. The camerawork is really bad. There are a bunch of zoomed out shots that feel unnecessary and even hinder some of the numbers. Sure is nice seeing the far backsides of Dorothy and Scarecrow as they ease on down the road. The final number is just a zoomed-in shot on Dorothys face singing and Diana Ross staring into my soul. This could have been a neat variant on the Wizard of Oz with some decent numbers and an interesting aesthetic, but it just doesnt pull itself together.
Favorite Song: You Can't Win, You Can't Break Even

Karo - The infamous 'Wizard of Oz, only with black people' from the 70's, a time when many regrettable decisions were made and this movie's existence absolutely is one of them.
Now don't get me wrong, there is nothing sinful about taking a classic and giving it a soulful flavor, but my oh my do they fuck this shit up HARD.
So where do things start to go wrong? Almost immediately. The original Oz was about traveling from a boring kansas farm to the fantastical world over the rainbow. There was tons of magic and wonder to be had, it was a very different place than what Dorothy was used to, a place you wanted to visit yourself.
Here, Dorothy goes from the ghetto to... another ghetto with people in bad cosplay. The world is dreary, stupid and unappealing. It somehow has worse looking sets, makeup, and special effects than the movie made in the fucking 1930's.
But at least the music is good, right? Well, for the most part, yes. Whenever they were doing the lively upbeat motown musical numbers things were always fun, but after that Dorothy always goes and sings a bland ballad that is dull as mud and I nearly fall asleep.
Anyway the plot is the same old story of Dorothy and her variously disabled friends following the yellow brick sidewalk to new york city, where they kill the wicked witch with the sprinkler system and everyone strips and dances around in their undies.
There was surprisingly little stereotyping, outside of the atrocious scarecrow intro scene. I guess they thought cinema didnt have nearly enough racist portrayals of black people by anthropomorphic crows.
It is boring, phoned-in, and goes on for way too long. It's not even bad or stupid enough to be a silly cult movie, it is just an insipid piece of rubbish cobbled together at the tail end of the blaxpoitation era that you are honestly better off just listening to the soundtrack for.

Score: 33/100

Best Song: 'Don't Nobody Bring Me No Bad News'
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Vengeful_KBM
01/15/20 7:50:53 PM
#45:


KBM - Why I Chose It: Loosely adapted from the 1974 hit Broadway musical of the same name, which itself was loosely adapted from the original L. Frank Baum novel The Wonderful Wizard of Oz, this film, starring major black stars of the '70s including Diana Ross, Michael Jackson, Nipsey Russell, and Richard Pryor, was a big enough flop upon release that it has been credited with marking the end of the blaxpoitation era of filmmaking. It was directed by noted white auteur Sidney Lumet, known for such classics as 12 Angry Men, Network, and Dog Day Afternoon, and adapted for the screen by noted white screenwriter Joel Schumacher, known for movies like The Lost Boys, Flatliners, and more notoriously the likes of The Number 23 and Batman and Robin. In more recent years the film has become known as a cult classic, but despite its four Academy Award nominations, its critical outlook remains mixed at best.

My Thoughts: This is a downright painful movie to watch, and it's a real shame, considering how genuinely great the source material is. NBC's The Wiz Live! is a much more faithful, much better adaptation of this material, and for my money is by far the best thing to come out of the recent live musicals on TV resurgence so even if you didn't like this movie, I'd recommend checking that out if you haven't seen it. As for this movie, though, it just... drags. First of all, Diana Ross is crazily miscast in the part of Dorothy, being way too old for the role, and her musical numbers (many of which were added for the film) are among the very worst songs in the movie. Plus, Sidney Lumet doesn't seem to have any clue how to film a musical, opting for boring long takes from far away that show off the impressively expansive and detailed (if a bit too bleak and grungy-looking) production design, but take a lot away from the energy of the story and the performances. There are a few highlights, especially at the end, courtesy of Mabel King's showstopping performance as Evilline, and whenever the movie just allows itself to enjoy the production numbers, things can get fun for awhile. But you're way, way better off watching the original musical, or the aforementioned television adaptation thereof, which was adapted by people who had a much better handle on what made the show work in the first place.

Favorite Song: Don't Nobody Bring Me No Bad News

Scarlet - All of the money goes into some admittedly nice cameo appearances, but nothing went into vocal equalization, set design, choreography, or writing. Hell, my high school had more lavish set designs. And thats when they put on Schindlers List. The Wiz is one of those nostalgia bombs that seems to have latched onto peoples souls like a parasite. Those people need to have their heads examined. Sesame Street, crafts better products daily than The Wiz.
Best Song: Ease on Down the Road
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Vengeful_KBM
01/15/20 7:54:51 PM
#46:


Ease on Down the Outlier

Johnbobb: 40
Genny: 38
JONA: 36
Karo: 31
KBM: 29
Scarlet: 27
Inviso: 24

Some shuffling occurs as Johnbobb takes the lead, and Genny also takes a huge leap above JONA.
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Johnbobb
01/15/20 7:56:21 PM
#47:


yeah the wiz was... something

months later, I still think it was both kinda fun and pretty dumb


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TotallyNotMI
01/15/20 8:06:33 PM
#48:


I like The Wiz!

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Vengeful_KBM
01/15/20 11:17:27 PM
#49:


I want to reiterate that the show itself is really good and that everyone should see The Wiz Live!
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Raka_Putra
01/16/20 2:29:59 AM
#50:


South Pacific: Surprisingly I liked quite a lot of songs from this movie. Dites Moi, Nothing Like A Dame, Bloody Mary, Happy Talk, I'm Gonna Wash That Man Right Outta My Hair, Honey Bun, and I'm in Love with a Wonderful Guy, to name.

But yeah, the story and characters are mostly forgettable. After rewatching the Bali Hai video I can definitely see why KBM's prof used it as an example of what not to do. And the color filters are just...weird. Not a movie I'm in a hurry to rewatch but I did watch some more clips of the songs performed in a recent concert. The one with Reba is pretty nice.

The Wiz: I did hear that the musical is leagues better than the movie and I sure hope so. The Oz here is just creepy and bland. MJ is pretty cool though. I'll try to look for the The Wiz Live version.


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LinkMarioSamus
01/16/20 7:58:33 AM
#51:


The director of 12 Angry Men, everyone.

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