Board 8 > ~ The Gauntlet Crew Ranks Movie Musicals, Part 2: The Golden Age ~

(+) Yeah! (+)

The next movie has not one, but two Top 10 placements! What could it be???

Maybe it's Repo.

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The Umbrellas of Chernabog, maybe?

I feel that will be very divisive

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PrinceKaro posted...

The Umbrellas of Chernabog, maybe?

I feel that will be very divisive

Yeah I was thinking that or maybe Kiss Me Kate

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30. Doctor Dolittle

Karo: 3
Genny: 9
Inviso: 26
Scarlet: 31
Johnbobb: 33
KBM: 34
JONA: 35

Karo - The whimsical story of the british veterinarian who can talk, walk, etc, with the animals.
The plot seems a mite random and pulled out of a hat, but features brilliant dialogue that features so many of the most memorable lines in the project, and an underlying sense of wonder that makes things that should be dumb seem cute and magical.
Rex Harrison gives the good doctor a quiet dignity that makes him work even if he isnt a very good singer, and the whole thing is just a very fun watch.

Score: 81/100

Best Song: 'My Friend the Doctor'

Genny - As a huge fan of animals and less a fan of most people it was pleasant to see a protagonist that reflects some of my ideals in Dr. Dolittle. Many of the songs were incredibly catchy, even the nonsensical ones, Like Animals being a standout for me. I enjoyed the animal cast of actors especially Polynesia and her very human voice actress, and the human actors did a great job as well even if I personally felt the addition of Emma Fairfax wasn't solely necessary to the group dynamic. The main reason I don't have this higher is that the movie feels a bit overlong. It never wears out its welcome, but it does lag at points, the entire ship ride being a chief example.

Inviso - It amazes me that a film with little to no plot could manage to drag on for two and a half hours. This is the kind of goofy premise that SHOULD have been a tight ninety minutes, and it SHOULD have had some more energetic and enjoyable songs. Instead, most of the musical numbers were sung in a weird baritone, and the female leads vocals werent enough to offset the Doctor himself, and hisIrish? companion. But yeah, the plot is just Doctor Dolittle hates people, so he decides to become a veterinarian, and learns how to speak to animals by way of his parrot teaching him a fuckton of languages. Annnnnd thats pretty much it. Sure, there are some scenarios, like him getting arrested and sent to an insane asylum, or going on a sea voyage and washing up on some tribal islandbut nothing really happens, and its a pretty dull affair overall.

Scarlet - I admittedly have a subjective soft spot in my heart for anything Rex Harrison, but objectively, this film nearly curtailed the entire musical genres success single-handedly, and there was a reason for that. There is a certain delight and charm to the character of Dolittle himself, but the movie itself is mired in unremarkable music and an even more unremarkable script.
Best Song: Talk to the Animals

Johnbobb - I don't really watch showtunes often, so when I do I don't always notice things like the work that must go into all the dancing and choreography. But when they're gone, I noticed, and that's definitely the case here. Every song is all but just sang while standing in place, which is particularly weird for a movie whose main appeal relies on its creativity. Ultimately it was just kind of a drag. It had it's fun moments, and I didn't really dislike anything in particular, but when I'm at an hour left already wondering when it's gonna be done, then something isn't right. The creativity put into the silly animals just wasn't also put into making it an overall fun time.
Favorite song: Talk to the Animals

KBM - Why I Chose It: One of many very costly box office bombs of the mid-to-late '60s that contributed to the near-death of the movie musical, Doctor Dolittle (based on Hugh Lofting's popular series of novels) is as notorious for its myriad behind-the-scenes issues as for anything in the movie itself. Thanks to a massive studio campaign, it was nominated for nine Oscars including Best Picture, winning two (Best Special Effects and Best Original Song for Talk to the Animals), despite widely negative reception from critics and audiences upon its release. The film's costly budget nearly bankrupted 20th Century Fox, and its $200 million worth of unsold tie-in merchandise also killed movie merchandising campaigns for nearly ten years (until the massive fortune George Lucas made on Star Wars revived the concept). There were also problems on set, with Rex Harrison going on racist tirades against Jewish co-star Anthony Newley and Black co-star Geoffrey Holder. The 1,200 animals on set also made things quite chaotic for the cast and crew incidents included ducks forgetting how to swim, a parrot that learned how to yell Cut!, and one particularly memorable instance in which a giraffe stepped on Rex Harrison's crotch. All of this (and more) contributes to a film that, if not necessarily considered a classic by most, is still discussed in great detail by movie history buffs today.

My Thoughts: As entertaining as the behind-the-scenes stories are (and I really only hit a few of the highlights above), the movie itself is just a slog to actually sit through. The film seems hell-bent on recreating the lightning in a bottle that was Rex Harrison's performance as Henry Higgins in My Fair Lady, but it just... doesn't work at all here. The Henry Higgins character is boorish, obnoxious, childish and misogynistic, and whereas those qualities work for the character in My Fair Lady thanks to strong scripting, good songs, and the interplay between Higgins and Eliza Doolittle, in this movie those qualities are just wildly annoying. His speak-singing also doesn't work nearly as well here. The pacing is incredibly slow, the songs by Leslie Bricusse are, for the most part, pale imitations of much better ones from My Fair Lady, and the musical numbers are staged very poorly, with weird cinematography and even more awkward choreography. The most... entertaining part of the movie comes when Dolittle sings a love song to a seal dressed up as a human, kisses her, and then tosses her into the ocean. There are a couple of songs I didn't mind, primarily the ones sung by Anthony Newley who is the only member of the cast who appears to be really trying throughout the movie. All in all, just a dull, dull affair, and one that didn't merit nearly the amount of budget and advertising that it received in its time.

Favorite Song: Beautiful Things

JONA - This was probably one of the worst watching experiences Ive had in one of these projects. Definitely not outright terrible, but it is such a chore to sit through. Rex Harrison was great in My Fair Lady and he puts on the same performance here. That would be a good thing if the characters he played in Doctor Dolittle and My Fair Lady were the same character but theyre not. The story is just a combination of stories thrown together. This could have been

My Friend the Outlier

Genny: 59
Karo: 58
Johnbobb: 43
JONA: 41
KBM: 33
Inviso: 28
Scarlet: 28

The remarkable split between those who liked Doctor Dolittle and those who didn't (with no placements whatsoever outside of people's top or bottom 10) puts Genny and Karo in the top outlier spot by a pretty substantial margin.

Hi Scarlet.

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Vengeful_KBM posted...

one particularly memorable instance in which a giraffe stepped on Rex Harrison's crotch

Oh my fucking god this is great. Poor guy though.

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I definitely thought there'd be more of a reaction to something that had such strongly polarized opinions.

Oh, well. Two rankings coming tomorrow.

Vengeful_KBM posted...

I definitely thought there'd be more of a reaction to something that had such strongly polarized opinions.

Nay, unfortunately just kind of a dull one imo

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29. Help!

Genny: 13
Scarlet: 18
Inviso: 19
KBM: 21
Johnbobb: 32
JONA: 32
Karo: 35

Genny - Good fun set to Beatles music. Who needs a coherent plot when you've got that much to begin with?

Scarlet - Stupid but endlessly charming, theres an innate realness to everything the Beatles do on screen. If only movies didnt need plots, this would be a success.
Best Song: Its the Beatles, I mean...

Inviso - This movie was justwacky. This felt like when we watched the Woody Allen Casino Royale parody, in just how little connectivity and plot there really seemed to be. Ringo randomly gets a magic ring, and EVERYONE spends the rest of the movie either trying to kill him, or trying to get the ring off his hand. This is barely even a musical. It occasionally has completely detached moments, where the Beatles just get to perform one of their songs in a strange location, and then the film moves on. The weird title cards are amusing, and honestly, the tone of this film occasionally reaches into Monty Python territory, which is always good for a laugh. Unfortunately, the Beatles are far more wholesome than the Monty Python gang, so they lack a lot of the irreverence and debauchery needed to really sell the zaniness of everything going on. Thats it. Thats all I really have to say. Its a hard film to rank, because it was REALLY entertaining sometimes, but when it wasnt being REALLY entertaining, it was tough to get through.

KBM - Why I Chose It: While the Beatles' debut film from the previous year, A Hard Day's Night (also directed by Richard Lester), was more critically well-received in its time, Help! has arguably proven more influential over time. The musical numbers in particular have been credited with shaping the development of music videos, as well as suggesting the particular style of British humo(u)r that would explode in popularity just a few years later with the rise of Monty Python. At the time, the Beatles themselves were not happy with the finished product, but over time they, along with audiences, have tended to look back on it more fondly.

My Thoughts: Help! was a difficult one for me to place. I do love The Beatles, and I also have a fondness for random, Python-esque British humo(u)r. However, for the first thirty minutes or so, I was bored out of my mind. The acting from The Beatles was very bad, the setup with Ringo's ring was thin and pretty lame, and the most interesting thing in that opening half hour was the title card saying Seeking enlightenment as to rings, they approached the nearest Oriental (goddammit, '60s). It's honestly somewhere around this point, though, that the jokes start actually hitting more than they miss, and that the band's rather blas approach to acting actually starts working to the movie's benefit. The musical numbers are obviously good, if certainly a bit random, and over the course of the film's runtime it developed a frantic sort of energy the opening act was missing, and that led to me basically having enjoyed myself when all was said and done. I can't say it's a really good movie (definitely not as good at this type of humo(u)r as Python, but it's an entertaining enough sit once you get past the boring set-up, and, in its own way, it was even kind of ground-breaking.

Favo(u)rite Song: The Night Before

Johnbobb - Look, I like the song Help! as much as the next guy, but this isn't a good movie. You're better off just watching a playlist of Beatles music videos on YouTube then you are trying to watch this slightly racist nonsense trying to string along a bunch of solid songs. I can only drop it so far, because it does have a pretty great soundtrack, but that honestly just kind of feels like cheating.
Favorite song: Help!

JONA - While there is some initial enjoyable goofiness, the movie starts to get repetitive quickly with the Beatles just going to different locations, escaping from assassins and singing songs. The Beatles also arent exactly good actors and a bunch of jokes dont land, since its just the movie trying to be wacky.
Favorite Song: Ticket to Ride

Karo - Ringo Starr's new jewelry turns out to be some cursed religious relic, and so various ethnically stereotyped villains accost our shaggy haired heroes with saturday morning cartoon antics in an attempt to recover it.
The film is an absolute trainwreck with an idiotic plot that feels like some unfunny mockery of a monty python routine made in some third world country and dipshit hijinks from 'characters' that are not only less funny than the Minions but harder to understand.
Even more dumb is how they interrupt the story every ten minutes to do an out of place music video that has nothing to do with the rest of the movie. Not even the slightest attempt is made to organically insert these songs into the film, for example you have them skiing in the swiss alps while singing a song about someone's girlfriend taking a train ride. It feels less like they composed the songs for the movie and more that they just made the movie to promote their new album.
It is a cheap half-arsed attempt to capitalize on the band's popularity, and no doubt took its title from the screams of the test audiences as they clawed their way through the theater doors with their fingernails, bleeding from every orifice.

Score: 14/100

Best Song: 'You've Got to Hide Your Love Away'

A Hard Day's Outlier

Genny: 75
Karo: 64
Johnbobb: 46
JONA: 44
KBM: 41
Scarlet: 39
Inviso: 38

Genny further solidifies her outlier lead, while Scarlet and Inviso's tie for last place is (just barely) broken with Vis taking the sole bottom outlier spot. Karo, meanwhile, ends up with a very appropriate outlier score considering it's a Beatles ranking.

Help! started kind of low for me and really dropped more and more over time

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I'm a little shocked this one didn't do better.

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28. Kiss Me Kate

Inviso: 10
Genny: 16
Scarlet: 21
Karo: 25
KBM: 27
JONA: 29
Johnbobb: 35

Inviso - As I watch this film in chronological order, I will admit that Ive found a slow, but noticeable difference as I move forward in time, as evidenced by the early films on the list placing higher and higher. This still isnt GREAT or immensely entertaining or anything like that, but its an improvement nonetheless. What I think Kiss Me Kate does well is its comedic effects. The two mafia goons make for great comic relief, because theyre able to be over-the-top, while simultaneously playing straight men for the wacky antics their presence causes. The general idea of having two divorced lovers play the leads in a Taming of the Shrew play leads to hilarity as each of them tries to one-up the other (although I wish it was a LITTLE more balanced, rather than having the husband get the better of his wife more often than not). Really, the main flaw I have is when the play itself is going smoothly. Theres no spark or intrigue in having a flawless Shakespeare play performed, even as a musical. Its only when things go off-script that the plot becomes interesting.

Genny - I find it difficult to explain why I enjoyed Kiss Me Kate so much. Maybe I just really enjoy shrews being tamed. This coupling is as toxic as they come, and yet while I can't root for them to ever be/stay together in any capacity I enjoyed watching their twisted romance play out on the screen. It's the funniest film on the entire list in my opinion.

Scarlet - I mean, it is what it is. Antiquated notions of shrewish tendencies make this movie a slight bit discomforting, but Cole Porter is a masterful lyricist
Best Song: So In Love

Karo - Yet another film about people putting on a play inside a movie, where this big broadway star puts on a production starring his ex-wife while sleeping with Superman's girlfriend (who is in the play too), and that goes as well for everybody as you might expect.
The movie spends too much time being a mediocre production of Taming of the Shrew, witch is highly uninteresting up until Kate's psychotic meltdown.
The songs are also lame, which is unfortunate considering just how damn many of them there are. I shouldn't be going 'oh fuck they are singing again' in a musical, songs are what I should be watching the movie for.
In the last 15 minutes alone we go from a dramatic departure to goofy singing gangsters to another random bout of Shakespeare with bizarre dancing. What am I even supposed to be feeling about this movie? I think maybe indigestion.
Though there are quite a few funny interactions between Kate and the male lead, most of the movie is as pointless as watching paint dry and nearly as boring.

Score: 47/100

KBM - Why I Chose It: Based on the very first winner of the Tony Award for Best Musical, Kiss Me Kate is also an example of early 3-D technology in a feature film. The story was inspired by (and incorporates) Shakespeare's The Taming of the Shrew, and features some classic songs by Cole Porter and an Oscar-nominated score by Andr Previn and Saul Chaplin. The film also features a rare acting performance from legendary choreographer Bob Fosse as Hortensio in the stage show sections.

My Thoughts: This movie certainly has its moments. First, the bad: it starts quite slow from a story perspective, and leading man Howard Keel has no charisma, a dated singing voice, and very little chemistry with Kathryn Grayson's Kate. Through a lot of the movie I was also really distracted by just how unprofessional these two characters were being during the actual show. I feel like any director worth her salt would have been begging for them to go home and send on their understudies by intermission. The humor also leaves quite a bit to be desired by modern standards by altering and/or omitting the raunchier humor from the stage show to comply with the Hays Code, a lot of the satire really loses its bite, and we're left with a lot of painfully broad slapstick (which is exemplified by nothing so much as the famous spanking scene a scene they were so proud of in 1953 that it's actually the poster for the film). All that being said, a lot of the Cole Porter musical numbers are very catchy, Ann Miller is delightful as always as the hilariously-named Lois Lane (love her tap solo in Too Darn Hot), and the old-fashioned throwing shit at the camera in 3-D schtick is always good for a cheap laugh.

Favorite Song: Tom, Dick, or Harry

JONA - Its so strange to see the film start behind the scenes, with getting to know the actors and then just putting on the entire play where the viewer must also care about the story in that. I ended up not caring about the play at all since the actors were the one who were introduced first and the actors themselves dont have many scenes compared to the play.
Favorite Song: Too Darn Hot

Johnbobb - Ideally, the songs here are decent enough for showtunes and the choreography was fine. None of it was really my thing though. Maybe I've got some bias because it's the second musical in a row I'm watching that's about people making a musical. I've DEFINITELY got bias beause the whole thing is unapologetically sexist, leading to a pretty terrible ending. The main couple don't have any kind of chemistry and Fred is downright terrible. The more I think about it, the less I can appreciate the music and stagework given how bad the plot was.
Favorite song: Tom, Dick or Harry

Always True to You in My Outlier

Genny: 87
Karo: 67
Inviso: 56
Johnbobb: 53
Scarlet: 46
JONA: 45
KBM: 42

Inviso skyrockets in position from bottom outlier to third place upon losing a Top 10 entry, leaving the bottom outlier spot to... *checks notes*... me. Genny, meanwhile, further solidifies her lead.

This was the one that started "kind of low" for me and then ended up dropping pretty steadily over time - which is why my write-up probably sounds a bit more positive than the placement would suggest, since it's one of the first ones I actually wrote before I'd finished my own list.

This one started at the bottom and stayed there for the entire ranking.

The only enjoyment I really got out of it was immaturely laughing at "I'll take a dick! I'll take a dick!"

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27. Gentlemen Prefer Blondes

JONA: 11
Scarlet: 17
Inviso: 18
Karo: 18
KBM: 24
Johnbobb: 34
Genny: 35

JONA - Both Jane Russell and Marilyn Monroe are fantastic here. Theyve got great chemistry and are great in their roles. Just some solid comedy with a fun story and characters.
Favorite Song: Diamonds Are a Girls Best Friend

Scarlet - I prefer good musicals, personally. But this is fine.
Best Song: Diamonds Are a Girls Best Friend

Inviso - This is a tough one to rank, because Im watching it so early that it stands out as being more coherent in its plot than prior movies, but I still dont care for it that much. I mean, Marilyn Monroe plays one of the two female leads, andmy GOD do I hate her. Shes not the MOST detestable character weve watched, because My Man Godfrey exists at the very least, but shes just such an unlikable person. So many of the inciting incidents come from her being incapable of being anything other than a selfish, gold digger. And its just frustrating because of how INSISTENT she is on behaving as reprehensible as she does. Meanwhile, her friend gets dragged into all the bullshit she pulls. Sure, this all leads to some comedic scenarios, but its just hard to overlook such a horrible protagonist.

Karo - A dizzy gold-digging woman and her nymphomaniac best friend take a cruise ship to France, where scandal ensues as she almost instantly starts up an affair with an even less sexually appealing man than her fiance.
After destroying several marriages and committing felony larceny she pretty much learns absolutely nothing and lives happily ever after.
Lorelei is such an incredibly vile person, and it really speaks for Marilyn Monroe's acting skills that she can make such a character interesting without the audience rooting for her to be burned alive in the ship's boiler.
Most of the songs are these forgettable and generic cabaret numbers, and they certainly are not a reason to see the movie. Rather it is the humor of watching the female equivalent of Sterling Archer trainwreck her way though life, and while I would have rather not seen her rewarded in the end for the way she behaves, it is still somewhat entertaining.

Score: 60/100

Best Song: 'Diamonds are a Girl's Best Friend'

KBM - Why I Chose It: Marilyn Monroe was, needless to say, one of the biggest stars of the 1950s. Gentlemen Prefer Blondes remains one of the most iconic examples of her work, irrevocably establishing her as one of the most famous sex symbols in pop culture to this day. Her performance of the Jule Styne standard Diamonds Are a Girl's Best Friend in particular is one of the most well-remembered (and oft-parodied) scenes in '50s cinema. Monroe and Jane Russell have received near-unanimous praise for their performances as Lorelei Lee and Dorothy Shaw, both from contemporary critics and modern audiences, and generally even from those who found the rest of the film lacking by comparison.

My Thoughts: The humor is dated, the story not that interesting, and some of the supporting performances are honestly quite bad (particularly the annoying rich child who's with them on the ship), but Jane Russell and Marilyn Monroe absolutely carry this movie on their backs. The Jule Styne musical numbers are very good, but there are a couple long stretches without a song that tend to drag, and the movie would probably have kept my interest a bit more consistently had they thrown in a couple more of the songs from the stage show, given the obvious talent, charisma, and chemistry of the two leads. I am glad I watched it, but I probably won't ever feel compelled to watch it again outside of song clips on YouTube.

Favorite Song: Two Little Girls from Little Rock

Johnbobb - God this hasn't aged well. Really just not particularly enjoyable the whole way through. The songs are mostly forgettable aside from Monroe's "Diamonds are a Girl's Best Friend," which is ultimately memorable for more bad reasons than good. The whole thing just kinda reeks of an underlying sexism; the two main characters are "woman who only likes men for their looks" and "woman who only likes men for their money" and the film barely makes any attempt to flesh them into anything more than that by the end. There's really just not much to go for here.
Favorite song: n/a

Genny - There's so much wrong with Gentlemen Prefer Blondes it's difficult to compose all my thoughts, but I'll try my best. The main issue I had with it was its ending. This was the second film I watched that featured a double wedding as its grand finale, but unlike the former this one felt completely undeserved. I didn't feel a connection with any of the characters, but Lorelei was particularly offensive. I realize the concept of a protagonist who's only interested in the love interest's inheritance is not meant to be taken completely at face value, but even beyond that she has very little substance.

Gentlemen Prefer Outliers

Genny: 95
Karo: 76
Inviso: 65
JONA: 61
Johnbobb: 60
Scarlet: 56
KBM: 45

JONA jumps two spaces, while everything else stays as it was.

Nice, the two least enjoyable knocked out back to back

Gotta say, between watching that and Kiss Me Kate early on, I was getting a little worried about this list

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Fun facts: Everyone who is naming their favorite songs named the same song for this next entry (which also happens to be the final entry of our aggregate Bottom 10).

Maybe Hair? I could see everyone saying the same for that

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26. 42nd Street

KBM: 14
Scarlet: 15
JONA: 23
Genny: 25
Inviso: 25
Johnbobb: 26
Karo: 27

KBM - Why I Chose It: This classic backstage musical, based on a 1932 novel by Bradford Ropes, was one of the biggest hits of 1933, earning rave reviews from critics and nominations for Best Picture and Best Sound at the 6th Academy Awards. To this day, many film historians consider this the film that should have won Best Picture that year, as opposed to the dull and largely forgotten melodrama Cavalcade. Featuring Ginger Rogers pre-Astaire partnership and iconic choreography by Busby Berkeley, 42nd Street has remained an enduring classic that was adapted into a Tony Award-winning Broadway musical in 1980, inducted into the Library of Congress' National Film Registry in 1998, and ranked 13th on the AFI's list of best musicals in 2006.

My Thoughts: Though there are certainly plot elements here that are familiar to modern audiences, to say the least, I had a really good time with this movie. There's some very high-quality acting, especially from Warner Baxter as the director, Ginger Rogers in a hilarious supporting role, and Ruby Keeler as the nave young ingenue. There's also some really great, ahead-of-its-time camera work throughout by legendary cinematographer Sol Polito. And, of course, there's the unforgettable last 20 minutes where we finally see the musical Pretty Lady come together with Busby Berkeley's incredible production numbers. There's an electric energy to this film that manages to transcend some of its more dated elements (particularly the singing styles and the depiction of race), and even if some things about the first hour or so have become clichs, I couldn't help but relate to some of the goings-on as a theatre person myself.

Favorite Song: 42nd Street

Scarlet - Not as extravagant as other Great Depression musicals, but one of the more tuneful ones. Its influence alone earns it a higher placement on this list.
Best Song: 42nd Street

JONA - While its neat to see how an old movie executed backstage drama, its kinda forgettable. While the characters are likeable, they are also forgettable. I will say the ending is quite nice and seeing Pretty Lady after all the struggles makes it worth it. While its a movie Ive already forgotten about, I will say I dont regret watching it.
Favorite Song: 42nd Street

Genny - I almost forgot 42nd Street was a musical until about 20 minutes in. You can feel the desperation coming from the director Marsh whose life and livelihood depend on the success of Pretty Lady. I kept wanting to write him off as an asshole, but his motivation for pushing the crew so hard actually makes too much sense for the era this film represents. Even though he gets the hit he wants he's still not happy at the end. Tragic.

Inviso - This waseh. It was just very melodramatic and boring through most of its runtime. The stakes never felt adequately raised to a point where I cared about whether Pretty Girl went off without a hitch or not, and all the problems (mainly bad singers/dancers, but whatever) felt completely flat to me as a viewer. Additionally, Im aware that musicals tend to have various side plots to pad out the runtimeI watched the first list, after allbut none of the side plots in this movie engaged me. So Dorothy has a creeper trying to Weinstein her, but she wants to marry her Vaudeville beauso what? So the director wants to end his career on a high noteso what? Really, the only character I came out of the film truly enjoying was Peggy, if only because she just came across as completely earnest and incorruptible. Other than that, this film is about 70 minutes of boredom, and then twenty minutes of 1930s songs. Not my cup of tea at all.

Johnbobb - Man, I really wish there was more for me here. I want to praise the movie for it's closing number (hell, the full last 20 minutes is very entertaining) but unfortunatley, there's just not much leading up to that that's worth bothering with. The writing is pretty blah and the plot is fine but nothing special. None of the performances really stand out, and it strikes me as the type of the movie that succeeded largely due to its lack of competition at the time. Again, great final number, but that's just not enough to sell the film for me. It's a shame it didn't put more focus on the music in choreograpghy throughout, since that was definitely the biggest strength.
Favorite song: 42nd Street

Karo - So this producer makes a new stage show, and the story centers around the audition/rehearsal process of picking the cast. It is more about making a musical than actually a musical, and indeed we don't even get a complete song until the last 20 minutes. Even then, none of them really leave much of a mark other than the titular song.
There is far too much time spent on various sordid relationships between ditzy showgirls and sexist pigs while the mary sue protagonist pretty much has her success arbitrarily handed to her by the flying spaghetti monster. How boring.
You wont find the answers to life, the universe, or everything on this street. You'll be lucky if you find any answers at all.

Score: 45/100

Best Song: '42nd Street'

You're Getting to Be an Outlier with Me

Genny: 96
Karo: 77
Scarlet: 67
Inviso: 66
JONA: 64
Johnbobb: 60
KBM: 57

This one Scarlet is the one who jumps several spots, while everyone else's position remains static (though my own bottom outlier spot is by a significantly smaller margin now).

And thus, our Bottom 10:

26. 42nd Street
27. Gentlemen Prefer Blondes
28. Kiss Me Kate
29. Help!
30. Doctor Dolittle
31. The Wiz
32. South Pacific
33. Mamma Mia! Here We Go Again
34. Jailhouse Rock
35. A Star is Born (1976)

Oh hey, a universally agreed best song.

Also, you know it's a Gauntlet Crew Ranks with all the old movies being eliminated early.

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Man I went from highest outlier to almost last SO fast

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Seriously, how are my bottom three all still in?

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Inviso posted...

Seriously, how are my bottom three all still in?

I have South Pacific as your #33, unless that changed...?

(That said, three of your bottom four are indeed still in so maybe you're just thinking of your #32 here)

Probably.

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25. The Phantom of the Opera

Karo: 11
Johnbobb: 15
Scarlet: 16
Inviso: 17
JONA: 27
KBM: 29
Genny: 34

Karo - The classic tale adapted to the big screen by people who really love putting singing voices through an echo filter.
You know how it goes, the girl falls for the masked man who lives in the basement and whose actual deformity is wildly inconstant between any given scene in the movie. Like seriously, his scars range anywhere between 'bad sunburn, bro' and 'holy fuck cthulhu impregnated your face'.
It is not quite as good of a movie as it should have been, there is a lot of just going through the motions and some really questionable cinematography, especially in the swordfight in the graveyard.
Even with all this, the music at the heart of the matter remains excellent, as does the classic story, and despite the producers best attempts to make it otherwise, it still remains a fairly decent film.

Score: 68/100

Best Song: 'Music of the Night'

Johnbobb - I've definitely got my issues with this. Little details seem to be completely overlooked, with the worst offender probably being the fact that the Phantom's mask doesn't cover parts of his face that are later "revealed" to be scarred. The behaviors of characters are largely unrealistic and the plot is mostly predictable and the film throws subtlety of any sort entirely out the window. Honestly though, I'm willing to forgive a lot of it for the excellent music, costume design, and especially set design. It reminds me of Bram Stoker's Dracula pretty hard; it's almost entirely just spectacle, but that spectacle is pretty great.
Favorite song: The Phantom of the Opera

Scarlet - It is not and could never be superior in any way to the stage adaptation of this, likely the most influential musical of the late 20th century, but Phantom remains a powerhouse of music for a reason. The cast proves to be double-edged, showcasing the dangers of the broad musical performances translated to the intimate setting of a silver screen, while also offering some scenery chewing performances.
Best Song: Music of the Night

Inviso - This movie was perfectly acceptable and perfectly serviceable. Ive never actually seen or heard the Phantom of the Opera stage production before, so I have nothing to really compare this against. The set design was really beautiful and I feel like the movie format allowed for some truly interesting sets for the action to take place within. The singing was pretty good. I admit that Gerard Butler (who looks SO weird without a beard) was a weak point among the vocals of the film, but overall, nothing stood out as being particularly terrible, in a movie where most of the film is sung, rather than spoken with songs interspersed. And you know what else? Despite being over two hours long, the film never felt like it dragged. Sure, there were a few songs that didnt feel completely necessary, but they still flowed nicely, and the end result was some solid emotion throughout the film.

JONA - It feels like there could be a better made movie using the same source. I say this as someone who has not seen the original musical. While I liked the setting and music, the characters could have been more compelling. The Phantom seemed more interesting than he ended up being in this film. The romance was pretty whatever, but not the worst. With all those factors, you end up with a movie thats like the middle option of a gauntlet but also you dont want to kill both.
Favorite Song: The Phantom of the Opera

KBM - Why I Chose It:The Phantom of the Opera, the 1986 Andrew Lloyd Webber musical based on Gaston Leroux's 1910 novel, is the most successful musical of all time. Its original 1988 Broadway production is still running to this day, having had over 13,000 performances, making it the longest-running show in Broadway history by a very wide margin. The show has won all kinds of awards, including the Tony and Olivier Awards for Best Musical, and has accrued an estimated $5.6 billion in worldwide receipts. So, of course, when a film was released in 2004, it was very highly anticipated. The result was met with mixed reviews, with praise and Oscar nominations for the art direction and cinematography, but negative comments highlighting Joel Schumacher's directing and screenplay, as well as Gerard Butler's performance as the eponymous Phantom. The added song "Learn to Be Lonely," sung by Minnie Driver in the film's credits, was also nominated for Best Original Song.

My Thoughts: Sometimes it seems to me that one of the most surefire ways to ruin a beloved pre-existing property is to give it to Joel Schumacher to adapt. Though this isn't as bad as the likes of The Wiz or Batman & Robin, it's not exactly a good movie either. I confess, I used to really love this movie as a teenager, when this was the only version of Phantom I was familiar with. But as I got older, explored different recordings of the show, and especially after the brilliant 25th Anniversary performance starring Sierra Boggess and Ramin Karimloo was released when I was in college, I no longer really had any use for this mess of an adaptation. The show itself lives and dies on the performances of Christine Daa and the Phantom, and though I really don't like either Sarah Brightman or Michael Crawford much at all (the original Broadway performers), their performances were at the very least memorable enough to launch the show into the massive success it became. The movie is plagued with truly strange choices, from changing some of the lyrics to spoken dialogue for no discernable reason, the casting of a man who truly cannot sing as the Phantom, the totally underwhelming deformity on said actor's face, and some bizarrely literal and over-the-top visual choices from Joel Schumacher (for more on this, check out Lindsay Ellis' excellent review https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-m5I_5Vnh6A&t=17s trust me, you won't be disappointed). It's possible I have too much love for the source material and that that clouds my judgment here, but there are several instances on this list where I love the musical and the movie to almost the same degree. This adaptation, despite all the spectacle and budget and Name Actors (well, partially BECAUSE of the name actors), just kinda blows it. A much better adaptation than this was very possible... but at least Gerard Butler's performance is good to laugh at. Side note: I do like Emmy Rossum just fine as Christine, and many of the supporting c

Phantom of the Outlier

Genny: 105
Karo: 91
Scarlet: 76
Inviso: 74
Johnbobb: 70
JONA: 66
KBM: 61

Genny becomes the first to break the 100-point mark, with Karo not too far behind.

Okay, we're at the point where, while I'm not gonna lose sleep over anything that's been eliminated thus far...the shit still in from my bottom 4 needs to fucking GO.

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somehow I expected that to do better, despite having obvious flaws

also I've watched this specific part dozens of times now

https://youtu.be/8Bn4BAlp8NQ?t=79

as if the idea of a bunch of rich aristocrats at a masquerade literally singing a ridiculously choreographed song about how they're at a masquerade wasn't wild enough, then this fucker gets up at the top of the steps and just goes entirely ham unprompted

AND THEN once that long, massive number is done, the Phantom walks in and suddenly everyone is all "WHAAAAT A MAN IN A MASK?!??!?"

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And also there's a guy voguing for some reason.

Seriously, that scene is, like, the epitome of the Weird Choices in this movie. Weird camera work, weird editing, weird dance movies, and yes, very weird that everyone just reacts like it's a huge big deal that a GUY IN A MASK shows up to the masquerade.

Vengeful_KBM posted...

and yes, very weird that everyone just reacts like it's a huge big deal that a GUY IN A MASK shows up to the masquerade

you'd think they'd have a better idea of how masquerades work given that they spent 6 minutes describing in song what masquerades are

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24. On the Town

Johnbobb: 13
Scarlet: 14
JONA: 17
Inviso: 20
Karo: 23
Genny: 29
KBM: 31

Johnbobb - This was a lot more fun than I thought it was going to be! Not a deep story by any means, but that didn't really hurt my enjoyment of it too much. You can tell it's directed by Gene Kelly, because the whole thing is brightly colored and the choreography is great (and the musical numbers drag on a bit longer than they need to sometimes, but again, I didn't really mind). Miss Turnstiles stood out as one of my favorite segments, being just completely over-the-top and with Vera-Ellen just being a pleasure to watch.
Favorite song: Miss Turnstiles

Scarlet - Stupid. Absolutely, 100% stupid. But on a list full of stupid, this stupid movie actually embraces being stupid and turns its negatives into positives.
Best Song: New York, New York

JONA - Just a fun film, with a good cast who have a good time while theyre in New York City. Its not anything spectacular; its just enjoyable.
Favorite Song: New York, New York

Inviso - Watching this, Im reminded of An American in Paris from the prior musical ranking. You have Gene Kelly in a leading role, a few catchy songs, and ultimately, FAR too many extended dance sequences that feel like theyre padding out the runtime of a film that doesnt have a whole lot in terms of substance. Im sorry, but still style of film just doesnt appeal to me in the slightest. I want a musical in which the music advances the plot. This style, from the 40s, seems to exist solely to have songs for songs sake. Really, the plot boils down to some sailors on a 24-hour shore leave, trying and succeeding in picking up chickswith minor inconveniences to said picking up of chicks. That being said, its not the worst thing ever, because at least the musical numbers are LIVELY, even if the film as a whole wasnt entertaining. Also, I feel SO bad for the cab drivers roommate. Shes just socially awkward and weird, and she gets played for laughs. She deserved better.

Karo - Three sailors on a one night stand of shore leave tour new york city looking to see the sights and ogle women, mostly the latter.
They decide to randomly chase after the subway pinup girl, just up and assuming that of course she wants to date one of them because why wouldn't she. This leads them on a search all over town, with women throwing themselves shamelessly at the trio to an extent rivaling a bunch of Japanese schoolgirls in a harem anime.
There are some snappy musical numbers to help keep things moving, and it never gets boring.
It's just a shame it has to take place in a weird incel fantasy world where women are objects, stalking equals courtship, and any professional lives the girls might have play second fiddle to putting out for any strapping young lad who comes within ten feet of them.

Score: 48/100

Best Song: 'New York, New York'

Genny - While none of the songs from On the Town are particularly catchy, I did enjoy the choreography quite a bit, and the movie itself doesn't overstay its welcome. I thought the stereotypical "come up and see me sometime" gal was going to be my least favorite, but I ended up enjoying the taxi driver's character the most. I suppose having a female with so strong a motivation was progressive in this time period.

KBM - Why I Chose It: Based on the Broadway musical of the same name by Leonard Bernstein, Betty Comden, and Adolph Green, 1949's On the Town was the directorial debut of Gene Kelly and Stanley Donen, who would go on to co-direct Singin' in the Rain three years later. Featuring some of the biggest song-and-dance stars of the era in Kelly, Frank Sinatra, and Ann Miller, this film is best remembered for its on-location filming and the famous opening number, New York, New York (which received a high-profile parody treatment in the Simpsons episode Boy-Scoutz 'n the Hood with Springfield, Springfield). It's also on the AFI's list of best musicals, and in 2018 was selected for preservation in the National Film Registry. Winning the Oscar for Best Scoring of a Musical Picture, composer Roger Edens controversially excised much of Leonard Bernstein's original score, deeming it too complex and operatic.

My Thoughts: Though the movie starts fairly strong, the dated (and often painful) humor and lackluster replacement songs ruined the experience for me. Roger Edens' standard '40s-pop style just doesn't hold a candle to the jazzy strains of Leonard Bernstein's original work, and I can't blame him at all for being pissed off that so much of his material was cut and boycotting the film. The story also cranks the blas sexism you expect from films of the time period up to 11, which further grates on top of the nonstop barrage of unfunny gags. I will say that Ann Miller's tap solo at the end of the otherwise-pretty bad musical number Prehistoric Man was a highlight, and whenever the movie stopped focusing on the story in favor of dance numbers it was enjoyable enough. However, outside from the dance numbers and what few Bernstein songs actually remain, this isn't exactly one I'd actively recommend for anything outside of its obvious historical significance.

Favorite Song: I Feel Like I'm Not Out of Bed Yet (It's too short, but DAMN is it a cool melody and Bern Hoffman's bass is outstanding. Honorable mention to New York, New York, which is also great for obvious reasons.)

I Feel Like I'm Not Outlier Bed Yet

Genny: 110
Karo: 92
Scarlet: 86
Johnbobb: 81
Inviso: 78
JONA: 73
KBM: 68

Johnbobb goes back up to the middle of the pack as quickly as he fell to second-to-last place, as most of the outlier margins remain fairly close together.

Christ another pointless recency bias list. Bye.

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scarletspeed7 posted...

Christ another pointless recency bias list. Bye.

I don't really think that's fair. There are a lot of factors that go into that more than just receny, otherwise Mamma Mia 2 would've been near the top of the list.

So far a lot of what's dropped either 1. hasn't aged well or 2. didn't have the greatest production value or character development, etc.

Hell I mean I liked On The Town a lot but even you called it stupid in its write-up

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23. Yentl

Karo: 8
KBM: 11
JONA: 19
Genny: 21
Inviso: 29
Johnbobb: 29
Scarlet: 29

Karo - So this is like Mulan, only instead of wanting to being a Chinese warrior she wants to be a Jewish scholar and so she dresses up like a man in order to pursue her dream of pointlessly arguing over arcane religious tracts from dawn to dusk. Fortunately, everyone at the school has ruined their eyes from staring at books too much so nobody notices their new student is Barbara Streisand with a short haircut.
She keeps up this facade until a series of events leads to her being married to the prettiest girl in town, an arrangement that somehow works out for a while because her new bride has the mental faculties of a 6 year old, but eventually people find out and because everyone is an intolerant sexist asshole she runs away to America.
It's a decent movie with some good music even if a lot of the scenarios seem pulled right out of a second rate school life anime, and while it entertains it is still nothing particularly special.

Score: 70/100

Best Song: 'Tomorrow Night'

KBM - Why I Chose It: Yentl began its 14-year-long production life in 1969, very soon after the release of Streisand's first film, Funny Girl. Based on Isaac Singer's short story Yentl and the Yeshiva Boy, and later also on Singer's 1975 Broadway play Yentl, the film's writer/director/producer/star Barbra Streisand spent years fighting studios and producers who considered the material too ethnic to be commercially viable, among many other problems. Once the film was finally made and released in 1983, it did receive praise, being named one of the Top 10 Films of 1983 by the National Board of Review, and winning Michel Legrand, and Alan and Marilyn Bergman, the Oscar for Best Adaptation Score, as well as Golden Globes for Best Picture Musical or Comedy, and Best Director for Streisand, making her the first woman to win the latter award. However, the praise was far from unanimous, as the film also received multiple Razzie nominations: Worst Actor for Barbra, Worst Musical Score for Legrand and the Bergmans, and Worst Supporting Actress for Amy Irving who was also nominated for Best Supporting Actress at the Oscars, making her one of only two actors to be nominated for an Oscar and a Razzie for the same performance.

My Thoughts: A film that truly toes the line between passion project and vanity project, largely depending on how charitably you view Barbra Streisand. For my part, the passion shines through a lot more brightly than the ego does. While definitely far from perfect, for me, this movie has enough beautiful moments to offset the duller ones. The sweeping Michel Legrand songs and score are utterly beautiful, especially Papa, Can You Hear Me and the closing quasi-reprise A Piece of Sky, and the story's rejection of traditional gender roles, is quite refreshing for a movie of its time. The cinematography is also great, bringing the early-1900s Polish setting to life and making the film really great to look at through some of its dryer patches (namely, when it goes too long without having Barbra sing something).

Favorite Song: A Piece of Sky

JONA - While Yentl has a fascinating life and journey, it doesnt really have anything spectacular. Also, I didnt think there was much chemistry between Yentl and Avigdor. The songs being Yentls thoughts is a neat concept, but the mixing of the songs and dialogue could have been better and the songs reveal too much. The movie is also too long.
Favorite Song: Do You Want to Build a Snowman? Papa, Can You Hear Me?

Genny - Papa, Can you Hear Me? was a really powerful solo. I realize it was representative of a different time, but other than that one song I found it challenging to connect to Yentl (both the character and movie as a whole) on an emotional level when she made so many questionable decisions in the name of love. Whether it was out of a love of knowledge or love of a man is not really relevant in the end.

Inviso - Oh Barbara. How did you go from two top-tier musicals in the first listto this boring garbage? Im sorry, but this was never gonna be a success to me. I mean, woman trying to succeed in a mans world, pulling a full Mulan? Fine. That COULD work. But lets have the overarching setting be the early 1900s in Eastern Europe, with a cast of characters whose main goal seems to be the discussion and debate of Hebraic texts. Riveting. This movie spends so much time on a main character who wants to be accepted as a woman in a mans world, not because she wants to do something interesting (like join the army of whatnot), but because shes not allowed to read, otherwise. Its so dull, and even the typical comedy of crossdressing offers little in the way of laughter. Barbara gets involved in a stupid love triangle as a result of boring traditions, and is forced to marry a woman. Now, in a NORMAL movie, this would be the climax. But no. The wedding comes and theres still nearly a goddamn HOUR left. Jesus Christ (pun intended), this was SO dull.

Johnbobb - I've really never been a fan of Barbara Streisand, and Yentl certainly didn't do anything to change that.
Favorite song: Papa Can You Hear Me?

Scarlet - Directed by Barbara Streisand, you probably will figure that fact fairly quickly in a movie where the entire affair is centered around Barbara being Barbara and doing Barbara things while other characters constantly ask where Barbara is and spend their time talking about Barbara and Barbara Barbara Barbara Barbara Barbara
Best Song: Papa Can You Hear Me?

I mean, again, I'm glad it's out, but can we PLEASE take out what's left from my bottom four. This is turning into 2000s horror again, where everyone had a weird hard-on for Martyrs.

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Vengeful_KBM posted...

Favorite Song: Do You Want to Build a Snowman? Papa, Can You Hear Me?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sykrR9QQaDU

also Yentl was boring and having every song be a Barbara Streisand monologue was a terrible decision

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The Way He Makes Me Outlier

Genny: 112
Karo: 107
Scarlet: 93
Johnbobb: 87
Inviso: 84
KBM: 80
JONA: 77

I lose my bottom outlier spot to JONA, while Karo nearly catches up with Genny upon losing a second Top 10 entry.

Inviso posted...

I mean, again, I'm glad it's out, but can we PLEASE take out what's left from my bottom four. This is turning into 2000s horror again, where everyone had a weird hard-on for Martyrs.

sorry vis la la land isn't going out this early

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Fun facts: This next movie is the second one to have two rankings in the Top 10.

Considering that that applies to most movies from this point out (although not our #20, it's really not much of a hint... but indulge me, let's get this shit to 100 posts before the next ranking.

I'll indulge!

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Next ranking!

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Johnbobb posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sykrR9QQaDU

also Yentl was boring and having every song be a Barbara Streisand monologue was a terrible decision

I actually have not seen Deadpool 2.

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