Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 244: All Presidents of the Last Century are Criminals

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LordoftheMorons posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1185643744932106240?s=21

Trump stanning for Jill Stein

So apparently that Joey Saladino guy that always posts on trump tweets (including this one) and is running for Congress has photos both of him wearing a nazi armband and pissing into his own mouth

yeah, hes a shitty youtuber bro. The nazi thing was a social experiment.
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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

HashtagSEP posted...

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Stop using quotation marks if you don't know what they mean, SEP.

So your entire defense is

"She didn't actually say the words 'you don't matter right now' even though that's clearly what the message was."

Holy crap why are your lips so glued to her ass

That's a Corrik argument

Bruh how can you say anyone is making a Corrik argument when you literally thought #slaykween was serious?

And why is assumption about what she really means ok, but any question about Hillary is conspiracy?

A little consistency, please.

For the record, Im ok with drawing conclusions on peoples motivation/what they actually mean in both cases.

First, I already admitted I read the #slaykween post wrong and that I was incorrect

Second, we literally have a quote from Tulsi, so there's no real "assumption" there other than Chris wanting to assume Tulsi is better than she is.

Hillary never said "Tulsi is working directly with Russia and is going to run third party, bank on it."

She said something that has already been said, that Russia is trying to groom her. She even said she's not putting out a prediction on whether they'll succeed or not. This is something that literally can't be proved unless Russia flat out says "Yes, that's what we're doing." But it is a fair thing to wonder/theory craft about when Tulsi is continuously defending Russia, repeating their talking points, and being defended by pro Russia outlets and bots.

What we've been calling a conspiracy theory is where Cyclo tried to basically say the only reason Hillary has to talk about it at all is for revenge, when that's not the case. She was already talking about Jill Stein as a Russian asset, and was giving her personal opinion that she thinks it's happening again, even if she can't predict whether Tulsi will bite or not. And the idea that Russia is trying to groom her into an asset is not at all an uncommon one.
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Now, if you want to argue that Hillary is atleast partially motivated in thinking that about Tulsi out of hatred, then sure, that's fine. But the initial argument of "There's nothing suggesting this is happening, Hillary's just trying to smear her" is silly, since there's a reason it's a theory that was floated before Hillary said anything about it.
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Basically, to make it clear:

-Hillary is already thinking the worst about Tulsi and latched onto the existing theory out of hatred = Okay, fine. I won't argue it since she has, indeed, proved herself to be vindictive.

-There's nothing there. There's no reason to think this. This was all orchestrated by Hillary out of revenge for the 2016 campaign and is just a smear campaign = Now we're getting into conspiracy theory talk, since the theory existed before Hillary said anything.

So if you're more the former, Tony, then I apologize for the argument. Cyclo was very much pushing the latter, which is where the argument was.
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https://twitter.com/hillaryclinton/status/1185578148890660864?s=21

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This was all orchestrated by Hillary out of revenge for the 2016 campaign

Nah. Hillary (and the rest of the DNC cathedral who, as you say, have already been hyping this for a long time) are doing this to send a message. Not to Tulsi, who isn't really a threat to them, but to any other potential Democrats who might consider adopting an anti-war position and/or engaging in any sort of compromise with the GOP on such issues.

Don't you dare. We will destroy you. This is about maintaining firm policy control on the one issue where NO compromise can be tolerated, by either party.
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how is this still going
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ph_7hN_1fKM" data-time="

Heres Van Jones on CNN saying exactly, and I mean almost exactly, what weve been saying.

HashtagSEP posted...

She said something that has already been said, that Russia is trying to groom her. She even said she's not putting out a prediction on whether they'll succeed or not. This is something that literally can't be proved unless Russia flat out says "Yes, that's what we're doing." But it is a fair thing to wonder/theory craft about when Tulsi is continuously defending Russia, repeating their talking points, and being defended by pro Russia outlets and bots.

Groom her how, dude? She said multiple times she wasnt running 3rd party, so what is Russia doing specifically to TRAIN Tulsi to run as a spoiler?

Bots? There are bots spreading shit for literally every candidate, how does that groom Tulsi?

THEIR GOAL IS INFIGHTING, and Hillary just served them up that goal, this is an objective fact, we are all anti-Trump and were fighting over it. The news is focused on it. All instead of focusing on the Democratic message and impeachment
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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

All instead of focusing on the Democratic message and impeachment

You mean the stuff Tulsi is against fully supporting, unlike the rest?
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Hillary is also fighting for her legacy. She desperately wants to be on the "right side of history." But anti-war sentiment among the general public is picking up. If the public eventually accepts the narrative that all of these regime change wars were nothing but a huge mistake and a giant waste of human life, conducted for no real reason, she will be remembered as a traitor a war criminal (as she should).
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https://twitter.com/AP/status/1185669138557128704?s=19

Everything about this is hilarious

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HashtagSEP posted...

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

All instead of focusing on the Democratic message and impeachment

You mean the stuff Tulsi is against fully supporting, unlike the rest?

...ok? Tulsi is one candidate of 12, and now shes pulling massively more media attention than she should, and all for the wrong reasons.

More people will see her opinions against those things now, because of Hillary.
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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Groom her how, dude? She said multiple times she wasnt running 3rd party, so what is Russia doing specifically to TRAIN Tulsi to run as a spoiler?

Encouraging the conspiracy theories Tulsi is biting on and attempting to grow the already growing divide between Tulsi and the rest of the left.
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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

HashtagSEP posted...

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

All instead of focusing on the Democratic message and impeachment

You mean the stuff Tulsi is against fully supporting, unlike the rest?

...ok? Tulsi is one candidate of 12, and now shes pulling massively more media attention than she should, and all for the wrong reasons.

More people will see her opinions against those things now, because of Hillary.

She literally gave those opinions at the debate, dude.
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HashtagSEP posted...

Encouraging the conspiracy theories Tulsi is biting on and attempting to grow the already growing divide between Tulsi and the rest of the left.

Exactly. I dont know if Tulsi actually believes the conspiracy theories shes spewing, but if she does it dramatically increases the chances that she runs as a spoiler.

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As another example of this type of phenomenon, Rudy is following a bunch of qanon people on twitter:

https://twitter.com/willsommer/status/1184850883827376133?s=21

or even more significantly, Trumps Ukraine ask included a request to find the DNC server in Ukraine, a completely nonsensical conspiracy theory that only serves to deflect responsibility from the Russians that he actually seems to believe. That would constitute Russian manipulation of Trump even if they didnt directly collude with him (which they most likely also did, but thats beside the point).

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HashtagSEP posted...

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

HashtagSEP posted...

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

All instead of focusing on the Democratic message and impeachment

You mean the stuff Tulsi is against fully supporting, unlike the rest?

...ok? Tulsi is one candidate of 12, and now shes pulling massively more media attention than she should, and all for the wrong reasons.

More people will see her opinions against those things now, because of Hillary.

She literally gave those opinions at the debate, dude.

Yeah, and she looked insane because everyone else treated her like it.

But now the people who dont watch the debates but watch cable kneed will see Hillary Clinton calls Veteran a Russian on the chyron and question the legitimacy of it.

If Hillary just...didnt, they could be talking about how Rudy was representing a dude in a corruption case while also peddling influence and shit.

Thats just the reality.
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fact of the matter is that literally nobody will be talking about any of this once the working week stats back up so this is all so incredibly silly to worry about
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Grimlyn posted...

fact of the matter is that literally nobody will be talking about any of this once the working week stats back up so this is all so incredibly silly to worry about

Also I think if I could summarize this argument it would broil down to I have never like Tulsi and she shouldnt be president vs I no longer like Tulsi and she shouldnt be president

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Suprak the Stud posted...

Grimlyn posted...

fact of the matter is that literally nobody will be talking about any of this once the working week stats back up so this is all so incredibly silly to worry about

Also I think if I could summarize this argument it would broil down to I have never like Tulsi and she shouldnt be president vs I no longer like Tulsi and she shouldnt be president

Yeah, it's pretty silly overall, I admit.
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this idea that something is not a conspiracy theory because like, uh, people have said it before is nonsense. i mean, beyond the fact that to my knowledge literally nobody has said "tulsi gabbard is being groomed by russians to run 3rd party" before on national media, even if they have that would just be further propagating the conspiracy theory. people DID actually suggest anti-Bernie things in national media about speculation that he would run third party in 2016, but without the "russia groomed" aspect, and again like with Tulsi it was a just conspiracy theory that came out of anti-Bernie feelings because he had always maintained that he would not do that, and he didn't do that.

when I suggest something like "jeffrey epstein was murdered", you all call me a conspiracy theorist. there is a lot of reason to think this, and a lot of people have been saying that not only WOULD it happen, but that it did happen. And yet I still get the label! So it seems very disingenuous to decide its a conspiracy theory when I don't think it makes sense, and its not a conspiracy theory when I do think it makes sense. The issue is that you all seem to 'conspiracy theorists' are automatically raving lunatics, and so you cannot let yourself admit you like this one, but that's what you are doing here. It isn't crazy to believe that Tulsi Gabbard could be groomed into running third party, its certainly a conceivable possibility, I don't buy it, but without any evidence saying it on national television is disgraceful and absolutely hawking a conspiracy theory.

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Hey if we didnt have silly arguments here we would have nothing to talk about on weekends so I say go for it.

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My FFXIV Mining is at level 47 now.

Also AOC's speech for Bernie yesterday was beautiful.
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watching some clips of the speeches at the bernie rally had me feeling hopeful so I re-ignited my anger by watching that clip of harvey weinstein on msnbc calling bernie sanders sexist to make sure I remember the world is terrible and nothing good ever happens

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Suprak the Stud posted...

Hey if we didnt have silly arguments here we would have nothing to talk about on weekends so I say go for it.

Y'all are flat ignoring the nonsense happening in the UK.
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I can only laugh at Brexit getting delayed so many times before I want to hear a different joke!

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https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2019/10/us/impeachment-process-what-is-quiz-trnd/

10/10. Learn yourselves, fools!

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Corrik7 posted...

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2019/10/us/impeachment-process-what-is-quiz-trnd/

10/10. Learn yourselves, fools!

9/10. Had no idea how many people at the federal level have been impeached overall. Guessed 45
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Jakyl25 posted...

9/10. Had no idea how many people at the federal level have been impeached overall. Guessed 45

Same. In retrospect I shouldve guessed 19 since it stuck out when compared to the other answers but oh well.

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Jakyl25 posted...

9/10. Had no idea how many people at the federal level have been impeached overall. Guessed 45

Work on your game, bro.

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10/10 but I completely guessed on the number of people impeached, and Id be willing to bet anyone who isnt a wonk or a lawyer would do the same.
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Yeah I had no idea on the total number of people impeached

I almost got #1 wrong but I remembered before clicking that Nixon was not impeached

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

10/10 but I completely guessed on the number of people impeached, and Id be willing to bet anyone who isnt a wonk or a lawyer would do the same.

Why?

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Trump backed down on having G-7 at Doral.

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Looks like the Chilean military is firing on protestors who are protesting the austerity measures the right wing government has put in place. One of the measures, increased public transportation fees, has been reversed. The army has declared a curfew. Hard to say how much of the videos from searching Chile on Twitter are real but if they are, things look really serious. I'm seeing one about an energy companys hq being burned down for their prices. Others are armed police having everyone on their knees trapped in a supermarket.

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Wow. I had been thinking about going to Chile on vacation in January. Guess not.
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metaIslug posted...

EU needs to give the UK the proverbial boot.

Absolutely not. This would mean no deal brexit which would completely screw Ireland, cause major damage across the EU and probably trigger a global crisis. This will never happen.

What actually needs to happen is simply to have a public vote on the deal or remain. Something which a million people marched for in London yesterday, and I'm happy to say I flew back just to take part. The number of signs referencing Untitled Goose Game pleasantly surprised me.
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Boris is going to get his deal through parliament before October 31st. I can feel the political mood swinging.
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GildedFool posted...

Boris is going to get his deal through parliament before October 31st. I can feel the political mood swinging.

It's funny you say that. I felt the same thing yesterday just through Twitter but I couldn't say exactly why. There was something triumphant about the presentation of this "new", not particularly great, deal that made me think he might get the votes this time.

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But hey if this deal leads to a united Ireland and Scotland leaving then let's do it. Let it all burn.

Which is an extremely childish and petulant reaction, and more of a lashing out than anything (it would be baaad for us) but screw it.

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Nah, the DUP is pissed about this deal and that's not gonna change. He doesn't have the numbers without them.
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Lightning Strikes posted...

metaIslug posted...

EU needs to give the UK the proverbial boot.

Absolutely not. This would mean no deal brexit which would completely screw Ireland, cause major damage across the EU and probably trigger a global crisis. This will never happen.

What actually needs to happen is simply to have a public vote on the deal or remain. Something which a million people marched for in London yesterday, and I'm happy to say I flew back just to take part. The number of signs referencing Untitled Goose Game pleasantly surprised me.

This would be incredibly unfair to the people who want to leave with no deal. If you must have a binary referendum it should be between the deal and no deal, since remain was already ruled out by both the last referendum and the manifesto pledges of the last general election.

If you must have remain as an option, you need something like ranked choice voting. Or if that is too much against the received wisdom of 800 years of elections in Britain and her colonies (and very wise wisdom it is, the Tory Party's great error was to ignore it and hold national referenda to decide major issues; the Republican Party would never make such colossal errors of allowing non-FPTP elections or to give even the appearance that the national popular vote holds the slightest shred of legitimacy), then you should accept the offer of a general election.

Of course, there is nothing to stop the UK as a whole from reapplying for membership in the EU after it leaves. The EU has already said they would be happy to have the UK back. And in the interest of fairness Scotland and Northern Ireland should be given the option to leave the UK and remain in the EU without any of the BS about non-guaranteed membership Spain pulled during the Scottish referendum in 2014.

Actually, England should be given that option too - if, say, Northern Ireland rejoined Ireland and England and Scotland both exercised that option, the legal entity known as the United Kingdom would be dissolved, the kingdoms of England and Scotland restored, and they would each have a seat in the EU.
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7/10 on that impeachment quiz

Forgot Nixon wasn't impeached. Had no clue how many non-presidents were impeached. And didn't know presidential succession past VP -> Speaker of the House

In my defence I'm Canadian
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Wow, the Irish PM is calling for a bridge between Northern Ireland and Scotland. Make it happen!
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https://twitter.com/HillaryClinton/status/1186008390926917632

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Ok, where is Hillary getting these ultra top secret letters between the US President and Soviet premier? Maybe she's the Russian asset and got it from Putin!
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why is Hilary doing comedy tweets now
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(deep sigh) she's running

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Hillary is posting jokes on twitter she is running guys.

(lol)
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