Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 235: Autopsy-Turvy

(+) Yeah! (+)

LordoftheMorons posted...

Ughhhh Steyers probably gonna be the one to fuck this up and make us sit through two nights again

Two nights of 5/6 people should be way more substantive than 1 night of 10.

like i still hate it from a god there's another 2-3 hours of my free time gone to watch this standpoint but we might have something approaching an actual debate that way.

just finally get Warren and Biden on the same night please
---

Just as a viewer its kind of exhausting, and none of these people on the bubble of qualifying is going to be president so its all a waste of time for them to be there

---

xp1337 posted...

Two nights of 5/6 people should be way more substantive than 1 night of 10.

like i still hate it from a god there's another 2-3 hours of my free time gone to watch this standpoint but we might have something approaching an actual debate that way.

just finally get Warren and Biden on the same night please

Biden probably wants less time to talk.

---

Mr Lasastryke posted...

then why does he get "gamer cred" from twitch streaming? >_>

I mean Twitch IS explicitly a gaming streaming platform. Even though streaming other, non-game things is okay now, that's their primary audience and how they market themselves. If Bernie just wanted to stream, he could have gone to youtube. But he didn't, he wanted a younger, more tech-savvy audience.

He targeted gamers.
---

the candidate who plays minecraft with pewdiepie will win that audience.
---

kinda odd that bernie doesn't stream on youtube, actually. seems like an obvious way to reach even more young people!
---

Biden has the same problem as Hillary - Trump will just ask, you think we have too much incarceration now - why did you write the Biden crime bill? You don't like what happened to Merrick Garland - why did you create the Biden Rule? You think we have too much racism - why did you ally with segregationist Democrats? You think we have too much war - why did you vote for the Iraq war? You think our banks are out of control - why did you vote to deregulate them?

Hillary had no answer, and people believed the real answer was she was corrupt. People will believe Biden's real answer is he just isn't very smart.
---

people forgive not being very smart if you know their heart is in the right place and you can actually talk to them. just ask Bush.

people don't forgive corrupt.
---

Wanglicious posted...

people forgive not being very smart if you know their heart is in the right place and you can actually talk to them. just ask Bush.

people don't forgive corrupt.

They forgave that because we were at the height of the strongest economy ever and the Great Depression was 70 years in the past. With 2008 only 12 years in the past people won't want an unintelligent president.
---

biden isn't unintelligent, though.
---

Mr Lasastryke posted...

biden isn't unintelligent, though.

Then he'll need a darn good explanation for why so many of his policies ended in disaster.
---

oh history has favored bush very, very well when it comes to personal takes. policy and politics, not as much but the left now treats him so much better. that's largely thanks to trump really, bush's handling of muslims during 9/11 is constantly used as a benchmark of how to de-escalate tensions as opposed to trump's rhetoric that makes things worse.

he's still the guy you could have a beer with. he ain't the smartest in the room but he's wise enough to know that and was still ultimately a good guy at heart. if people wanted the smarter bush, they had a choice with Jeb!

or to simplify: one of them could dodge a shoe, the other ran Florida.
---

It turned out Jeb was not the smart one after seeing his 2016 debate performance!
---

I'm not disagreeing with your take on how people look a lot more favorably on Bush now, but a lot of that "good guy at heart" narrative is done to downplay how big a disaster the War on Terror was. Not just by Republicans, Democrats obviously also dealt with the fallout all through Obama's tenure as President and both parties would really love it if we just forgot the whole thing while also appealing to our patriotism by trying to bring troops home. A lot of people haven't forgiven this.

He did do a decent job of trying to de-escalate religious tensions as opposed to using them to rile his base (which he didn't need to, he had a war) so I'll give him that.
---

The only reason to have a beer with Bush is to throw it in his face.

---

Wanglicious posted...

people forgive not being very smart if you know their heart is in the right place and you can actually talk to them. just ask Bush.

people don't forgive corrupt.

Bill Clinton is still reasonably popular despite being corrupt.

Also I dont believe Bushs heart was in the right place but maybe thats the minority? Ill take Trump over W
---

Jakyl25 posted...

Wanglicious posted...

people forgive not being very smart if you know their heart is in the right place and you can actually talk to them. just ask Bush.

people don't forgive corrupt.

Bill Clinton is still reasonably popular despite being corrupt.

Also I dont believe Bushs heart was in the right place but maybe thats the minority? Ill take Trump over W

You're not in the minority of the country. Trump would flatten W in an election.
---

Like I honestly believe that if Trump was more Presidential, but ran the country the same way he is now hed absolutely be seen by all sides as better than W

Its his attitude that causes 90% of the problems, justifiably so because his attitude is fucking toxic
---

Jakyl25 posted...

Like I honestly believe that if Trump was more Presidential, but ran the country the same way he is now hed absolutely be seen by all sides as better than W

Its his attitude that causes 90% of the problems, justifiably so because his attitude is fucking toxic

He couldn't do that though without jeopardizing his effectiveness in getting his policies through. Trump understands how to run a negotiation - who to schmooze (like KJU and Putin) and who you just can't bargain with (like Democrats). There are some negotiations where you've got to utterly defeat your opponent, where it's not possible to get a good deal from bargaining.
---

And, in general, you can't bargain with a person who's lost his mind. You can exploit their tilt and irrationality, but they are not in a place where they can come to the table and make a deal. That's why most of my advice to the Democrats is about getting their own house in order.
---

Jakyl25 posted...

Like I honestly believe that if Trump was more Presidential, but ran the country the same way he is now hed absolutely be seen by all sides as better than W

Not sure if you're joking or not.
---

Im not.

Trump has a handful of very very atrocious policies (the migrant camps, the Muslim Ban), but all of those put together arent as bad as Ws.

So far. He has 5 more years to go, admittedly

What makes him arguably worse than W is how he conducts himself to embolden the worst people in the country and destroy any notion that civility matters. Hes such a cretin and he revels in it.
---

Jakyl25 posted...

Also I dont believe Bushs heart was in the right place but maybe thats the minority? Ill take Trump over W

totally agree with the first part of this. i think the "GWB was a dumb guy but he meant well" narrative is bullshit. someone who graduated from harvard isn't dumb. bush was a warmongering asshole.

not sure if i'd take trump over him, though. trump has problems of his own that are entirely different from GWB's.
---

Civility matters is one of the greatest lies ever told. Used to justify British dominion over the world - because they were the utmost in civility. It's easy enough to be civil in your drawing rooms while you enjoy the fruits of slavery and the drug trade that you don't have to see.
---

Mr Lasastryke posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

Also I dont believe Bushs heart was in the right place but maybe thats the minority? Ill take Trump over W

totally agree with the first part of this. i think the "GWB was a dumb guy but he meant well" narrative is bullshit. someone who graduated from harvard isn't dumb. bush was a warmongering asshole.

not sure if i'd take trump over him, though. trump has problems of his own that are entirely different from GWB's.

Agreed. The fact that its a close call for me comparing 8 years of W to 2 1/2 years of Trump does not make me confident about that stance moving forward
---

Can we please stop discussing this bargaining framework as if it's remotely sensible to use as the sole method by which to analyze politics?

I don't want a leader whose only guiding principle is maximizing their own influence or power, and I don't think most people do either.
---

Trump is way worse than Bush

---

Jakyl25 posted...

Trump has a handful of very very atrocious policies (the migrant camps, the Muslim Ban), but all of those put together arent as bad as Ws.

The concentration camps by themselves make him worse than Dubya. Stop deluding yourself.

Also you are conveniently forgetting Trump's atrocious foreign policy, which is alienating our allies and destroying America's international goodwill at a time when Russia is getting ever more adventurous and very obviously has foreign policy goals in direction opposition to our own.
---

Corrik7 posted...

"yeah, we would have indicted anyone else, but him we can't."

Show me where you quoted that from the Mueller Report.

That part's not from the Mueller Report, it's from Mueller's testimony to Congress.

Ted Lieu: The reason, again, that you did not indict Donald Trump is because of the O.L.C. opinion stating that you cannot indict a sitting President. Correct?
Mueller: That is correct."

Edit: Before anyone jumps in and says "but Mueller later clarified that's not what he meant", I am well aware; see post #152.
---

And then he clarified to say that he was not saying that but for that opinion, he would have indicted. He's saying that because of that opinion he couldn't indict, but it doesn't imply one way or the other what would have happened if it didn't exist.
---

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/458135-trump-jews-that-vote-democrat-show-lack-of-knowledge-or-great

jeeeeeeeesus christ Trump is such a moron, this is so immensely worse than the Omar loyalty tweet that got twisted so much

like with that headline I thought maybe there was some parsing but nope the video is right there
---

But really, the prosecutor never gets to decide if someone is innocent or guilty. The jury does that. Or the judge can toss a case if the facts don't add up to a crime, even if true.

You can't infer anything negative about a person from a non-indictment of that person....and certainly you can't infer anything negative about person not being indicted when they legally can't be indicted.

You have to give any defendant the chance to defend himself. He must get a trial. And the only place the President of the United States can receive a trial is in the Senate of the United States. So if you want to impeach, I'm sure the president will defend himself, and easily be acquitted. But if not, it's really not fair to keep harping on about an investigation that produced no conclusion and offers no opportunity to present a defense.
---

Grimlyn posted...

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/458135-trump-jews-that-vote-democrat-show-lack-of-knowledge-or-great

jeeeeeeeesus christ Trump is such a moron, this is so immensely worse than the Omar loyalty tweet that got twisted so much

like with that headline I thought maybe there was some parsing but nope the video is right there

I'm sure all of the Congressional GOP will be calling him out any moment now!!!

---

MalcolmMasher posted...

That part's not from the Mueller Report, it's from Mueller's testimony to Congress.

Ted Lieu: The reason, again, that you did not indict Donald Trump is because of the O.L.C. opinion stating that you cannot indict a sitting President. Correct?
Mueller: That is correct."

Edit: Before anyone jumps in and says "but Mueller later clarified that's not what he meant", I am well aware; see post #152.

That isn't what you said.

You said, he said if it were any other person than the president he would have. That was NOT said. That was you making up what you wanted to be said.

He basically said "we can't disprove he is actually batman. But, we can't levy that accusation against a sitting president anyways so we never attempted to make that determination of whether he was batman anyways."


---

"Stop comparing Trump to Hitler!"
"Jews are dumb and/or not loyal to our country."

Well ok then.
---

TheRock1525 posted...

"Stop comparing Trump to Hitler!"
"Jews are dumb and/or not loyal to our country."

Well ok then.

The leap is crazy here.

This is what I mean by so many of you post shit out of context or twisted to try and make a narrative. It's just so crazy.

---

Corrik7 posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

"Stop comparing Trump to Hitler!"
"Jews are dumb and/or not loyal to our country."

Well ok then.

The leap is crazy here.

He literally just said 70% of the Jewish population in America was disloyal or "lacked knowledge" (aka dumb) since they voted for a Dem over him.

The fact that you are trying to spin even this shows how far up Trump's ass your head is and you're basically a joke.
---

Corrik7 posted...

This is what I mean by so many of you post shit out of context or twisted to try and make a narrative. It's just so crazy.

"I think Jewish people that vote for a Democrat I think it shows either a total lack of knowledge or great disloyalty"

I'd love to hear the context that makes this better. Please.
---

We all remember how Hitler groveled for the Jewish vote
---

TheRock1525 posted...

He literally just said 70% of the Jewish population in America was disloyal or "lacked knowledge" (aka dumb) since they voted for a Dem over him.

The fact that you are trying to spin even this shows how far up Trump's ass your head is and you're basically a joke.

What he said was dumb. It was basically tantamount to Clinton's deplorables comment. But, what he said was he felt Jewish People who voted for the democrats were lacking in knowledge or disloyal (to what is implied to be Israel imo).

Hitler was hey let's round up the Jewish people because they are the worst and we are better and kill them off.

How the hell you got Trump to Hitler comparisons are apt because of that comment is silly.

"Hey, you should vote for me instead of democrats because democrats are the party anti-Israel and we are pro-Israel" is his statement.

Trust me when I tell ya that Hitler didn't give a shit if the Jewish people voted for him.

---

who could ever forget that knee-deep blowjob groveling of "you're not gonna support me because I don't want your money... you want to control your own politicians - that's fine, good"
---

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/20/the-us-wont-vaccinate-migrant-children-against-the-flu-at-border-camps.html

what the fuck
it should go without saying that flu vaccines are even more important in these concentration camps due to the high density of people.

---

LordoftheMorons posted...

what the fuck

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1163961882945970176

lol
---

Denmark is being arrogant at this point. Now I want to TAKE Greenland from them.
---

Not written by him; no Random incorrect Captilization and (bizarre?) Punctuation!

---

Corrik7 posted...

What he said was dumb. It was basically tantamount to Clinton's deplorables comment.

no, it wasn't. since apparently you like putting quotes in context, it's worth noting that people always omit the context of the "deplorables" comment in which hillary stated that it was "grossly generalistic." she never said half of trump's supporters were deplorable (even though red sox keeps insisting that she did).
---

Nelson_Mandela posted...

Denmark is being arrogant at this point. Now I want to TAKE Greenland from them.

He never did follow through on MWCs plan to annex Mexico either
---

Not_an_Owl posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

Trump has a handful of very very atrocious policies (the migrant camps, the Muslim Ban), but all of those put together arent as bad as Ws.

The concentration camps by themselves make him worse than Dubya. Stop deluding yourself.

Also you are conveniently forgetting Trump's atrocious foreign policy, which is alienating our allies and destroying America's international goodwill at a time when Russia is getting ever more adventurous and very obviously has foreign policy goals in direction opposition to our own.

He hasnt started any wars

He hasnt ENDED any either but still
---

Also I think most countries understand that Trump is the issue, and the next reasonable President will want to restore alliances
---