Board 8 > All-Purpose Wrestling Topic 487: There Goes Bracket

(+) Yeah! (+)

Steiner posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

Oh everyone ready to start hating Sasha Banks again?

no she's one of like two good women on the roster

Sasha's good under the right circumstances. She has to have a huge important match or she has to be winning. If neither of those are happening, she doesn't try. If it's an important match, she tries to steal the show and do all sorts of dangerous stuff that generally involves her almost killing herself.

Out of curiosity, who do you think the other good woman is aside from Sasha? Charlotte, Asuka, and Becky are all better than she is without really thinking about it. They also don't act like children when they don't get their way.
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okay what she did wasn't "acting like a child" though it was standing up for herself, like any person with her money and star power should if they're not happy with how they're treated. considering it's only got harder to claim it was the right move to have the iiconics beat them 5 weeks into their reign for title that were made for them in the 6 months since wrestlemania, i'm surprised that anybody is still claiming that was bad for sasha. i know that if i were one of the people saying that 6 months ago, i'd be too fucking embarrassed to show my face again, never mind actually reminding people i said that :|

and you're right, I forgot about Asuka, make it 3.

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Steiner posted...

and you're right, I forgot about Asuka, make it 3.

So who is the other one, Charlotte I'm assuming? I could see a case for saying maybe Sasha is better than Becky, but there's no way she's better than Charlotte.

As far as Sasha acting like I child, you believe she wasn't, I believe she was. My 5 year old responds in a similar manner when she doesn't get her way. Booking in WWE is pretty terrible for everybody, but most people show up and act like a professional, and don't demand a release because they didn't like the way they were booked. Having them drop the titles that early was a stupid move for sure, but one of the two moved on and dealt with it, the other whined and cried. To me, that's childish, since it's something I see often from my own children.
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yes, charlotte sasha and asuka are the good ones

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Steiner posted...

yes, charlotte sasha and asuka are the good ones

It's really a shame that their gross mishandling of Asuka has made her forgettable. She should always be up there at the top of the division, instead of an afterthought.

Seems pretty clear you don't like Becky. What about people like Io, Shayna, Ronda, Nattie, Ruby, Nikki Cross, Sonya, Kairi, and Bayley? The women's division has a ton of talent right now, I don't know how all of them would be not good. They might not be at Sasha level, but I wouldn't call them bad either.
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RaidenGarai posted...

Io, Shayna, Ronda,

not even on the roster

RaidenGarai posted...

, Nattie, Ruby,

bad

RaidenGarai posted...

, Nikki Cross,

i like nikki cross the wrestler but her main roster character is an unlikable idiot

RaidenGarai posted...

Sonya

bad

RaidenGarai posted...

Kairi

considered naming her before but she's done nothing on the main roster and i'm leaning more towards relegating asuka than promoting kairi because this kabuki warriors shit is death

RaidenGarai posted...

Bayley?

bayley is obviously talented she just has no appeal to me at all

RaidenGarai posted...

and don't demand a release because they didn't like the way they were booked.

yeah, which is why the show fucking SUCKS

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i DO NOT WANT wrestlers to be good little employees who go along for the ride like a good little 5 year old. i want wrestlers to think for themselves, question what they're given, understand their characters motives and desires and think about the long term story telling in critical ways and feed back and push back against what they're given. constantly. it's better for everybody except for vince mcmahon.

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As far as Sasha acting like I child, you believe she wasn't, I believe she was. My 5 year old responds in a similar manner when she doesn't get her way. Booking in WWE is pretty terrible for everybody, but most people show up and act like a professional, and don't demand a release because they didn't like the way they were booked.

Imagine applying this logic to any other work environment.

"Oh, your boss makes false promises at best and flat out lies to you at worst, and he doesn't really seem to value you at all despite the obvious passion you have for your job, but don't try to get out and seek other employment. That'd be childish and unprofessional. Just continue to show up and get treated like crap with a smile on your face."

These wrestlers don't owe WWE anything. It's like in traditional sports where players are demonized for leaving in free agency even though they can be traded at anytime with no say in the matter.
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I mean the tag titles weren't going to get any credibility by Sasha and Bayley continually beating... Mandy and Sonya? So from a purely entertainment factor, putting them on the Iconics wasn't a bad move. It could certainly be argued it happened too quickly, but otherwise it was fine.

If she had maybe used her platform to speak out about anything, then sure, I'd agree what she did would have been good. She didn't, though. She just whined on Twitter with passive aggressive likes and random cryptic shit that didn't seem to actually mean anything.
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NBIceman posted...

Imagine applying this logic to any other work environment.

"Oh, your boss makes false promises at best and flat out lies to you at worst, and he doesn't really seem to value you at all despite the obvious passion you have for your job, but don't try to get out and seek other employment. That'd be childish and unprofessional. Just continue to show up and get treated like crap with a smile on your face."

These wrestlers don't owe WWE anything. It's like in traditional sports where players are demonized for leaving in free agency even though they can be traded at anytime with no say in the matter.

Don't forget if you try to get out they tell you that you can't leave for three more years.
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guys I tried to re-sub to NJPW World and they won't let me
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NBIceman posted...

"Oh, your boss makes false promises at best and flat out lies to you at worst, and he doesn't really seem to value you at all despite the obvious passion you have for your job, but don't try to get out and seek other employment. That'd be childish and unprofessional. Just continue to show up and get treated like crap with a smile on your face."

I'd agree with this if she had actually been booked like crap more often than not, but she was booked quite well compared to most of the others.

I don't disagree with you on the general point, though.
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ExThaNemesis posted...

guys I tried to re-sub to NJPW World and they won't let me

this is priceless for a lot of reasons

does it even cancel before the end of the month?

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HashtagSEP posted...

NBIceman posted...

"Oh, your boss makes false promises at best and flat out lies to you at worst, and he doesn't really seem to value you at all despite the obvious passion you have for your job, but don't try to get out and seek other employment. That'd be childish and unprofessional. Just continue to show up and get treated like crap with a smile on your face."

I'd agree with this if she had actually been booked like crap more often than not, but she was booked quite well compared to most of the others.

I don't disagree with you on the general point, though.

I mean, yeah, if our benchmark is "the rest of the women's division," she was booked fine.

If our benchmark is "actual good booking in wrestling in general," she absolutely was booked like total crap.
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NBIceman posted...

HashtagSEP posted...

NBIceman posted...

"Oh, your boss makes false promises at best and flat out lies to you at worst, and he doesn't really seem to value you at all despite the obvious passion you have for your job, but don't try to get out and seek other employment. That'd be childish and unprofessional. Just continue to show up and get treated like crap with a smile on your face."

I'd agree with this if she had actually been booked like crap more often than not, but she was booked quite well compared to most of the others.

I don't disagree with you on the general point, though.

I mean, yeah, if our benchmark is "the rest of the women's division," she was booked fine.

If our benchmark is "actual good booking in wrestling in general," she absolutely was booked like total crap.

Yeah but the whole company is booked like crap, which goes back to my point that if she had actually used her platform to speak out about it, I'd support it.

But for the benchmark of the women's division and the company itself, she was booked well. And she didn't speak out about the problems. So to me it's like... Yeah, what was the point?
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moxley: hero
harper: free harper!
pac: believed in himself
sasha: whiny child baby

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Moxley: Showed up for work and finished out his contract even though he hated how he was being booked and how all of his ideas were being ignored. Was a professional throughout the entire process. Apples and oranges compared to Sasha

Harper: I believe he kept pitching ideas to creative, and he didn't actually walk out, he was trying to get back in the mix and only asked for his release when they said they had nothing for him and decided not to use him for the remainder of his contract (which is really, really shitty and shouldn't be allowed)'

Pac: Don't really know much about his situation. Just that he was pissed about losing to Enzo.

Sasha: Whined and complained on twitter. Demanded to be released from her contract early. Refused to show up for work

Assuming my info on Harper is correct, there's a pretty big difference between his situation and Sasha's, and Sasha and Moxley are nothing alike. Moxley acted like an adult, and Sasha didn't.
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Wow.
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okay so "Demanded to be released from her contract early" can be worded as "asked for her release", if you're okay with framing some things neutrally rather than in the worst possible light for sasha. "Refused to show up for work" - isn't that her being sent home because the company wanted her to rest off what was pissing her off? And finally, "Whined and complained on twitter.", which she just didn't do. like, i follow her, i don't need any report for that.

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Steiner posted...

ExThaNemesis posted...

guys I tried to re-sub to NJPW World and they won't let me

this is priceless for a lot of reasons

does it even cancel before the end of the month?

it cancels IMMEDIATELY and you can't re-sub for a whole month

i understand that this must look hilarious to you all on the outside but I really wanted to watch Kota vs Jay today

i shouldn't be held accountable for my actions while i'm emotional wtf
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man, your man was literally right there telling you to tranquilo!

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I know you guys probably think I hate Sasha, but I actually still like her. I just don't know why she feels like she should be treated differently than everybody else on the roster, since 98% of them are booked like shit. Hell, my oldest still wears her Legit Boss sunglasses and her Sasha shirt on a regular basis.
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RaidenGarai posted...

I just don't know why she feels like she should be treated differently than everybody else on the roster, since 98% of them are booked like shit.

then you misunderstand me - i think the rest of the roster should be more like sasha. or at least all the talented ones.

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Steiner posted...

man, your man was literally right there telling you to tranquilo!

THE WAS GEDO MOCKING ME I STG
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Steiner posted...

okay so "Demanded to be released from her contract early" can be worded as "asked for her release", if you're okay with framing some things neutrally rather than in the worst possible light for sasha. "Refused to show up for work" - isn't that her being sent home because the company wanted her to rest off what was pissing her off? And finally, "Whined and complained on twitter.", which she just didn't do. like, i follow her, i don't need any report for that.

We're looking at things from a different angle I think. I'm viewing her actions negatively because I don't like the way she was acting, and you're viewing them positively because you think she was acting properly, so I think you're right about the first two points.

As far as Twitter goes, I'm interpreting all of the random vague tweets she made at the time as her was of trying to be subtle in complaining about her situation. You're interpreting them as normal tweets. Really no way to know who's correct on that one since it's just interpretations.

I still think her handling of everything is a lot different than how Moxley went about it though.
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Harper shows us what being "professional" does. Gets you taken off TV and locked into a contract you don't want to be in.

Might as well just be like Sasha. WWE has done nothing to warrant its employees being professional towards them. It's a two way street.
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RaidenGarai posted...

As far as Twitter goes, I'm interpreting all of the random vague tweets she made at the time as her was of trying to be subtle in complaining about her situation. You're interpreting them as normal tweets. Really no way to know who's correct on that one since it's just interpretations.

those tweets were clearly pointed, but considering all of the tweets came out after media had RAN with the whole ass story, we don't even know how much of it was sincere. but if it was all sincere? well, she's fuckin right and has no other option. most of her tweets have just been gassing up other things and people, which rules. she's not like, lio rush out here, who even i would agree might need to learn what not to tweet

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Steiner posted...

then you misunderstand me - i think the rest of the roster should be more like sasha. or at least all the talented ones.

I was actually going to disagree with this, but the more I think about it the more I find myself agreeing. WWE desperately needs to change how it treats the talent (just look at the Harper situation), and as long as Vince remains in charge, I think a mass walkout might be the only thing that gets his attention since losses in ratings haven't scared him enough. If he's left with a roster of undercard people,

It'd be a lot harder for me to be critical of Sasha for acting that way if there were a bunch of others doing the same thing. The fact that she's the only one kind of makes her stand out, and I think that's part of the problem in my eyes.
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What an incredibly bizarre opinion.

One person speaking out against immoral and all-around shitty business practices is childish and unprofessional, but if there were a few others it'd be fine?
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I still think Harper should have just gone into John Oliver's show and just discuss the situation he's in and his independent contractor status. That would get him relieved from his contract ASAP.

I can see why he doesn't because he has a family and he probably doesn't want to blackball himself from WWE forever, especially when it might not suck so much when Vince is gone, but man.
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idk why I expected sympathy from u lot

smh so much for fan solidarity
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ExTha, I'm curious. What is your opinion of Orange Cassidy?
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NBIceman posted...

What an incredibly bizarre opinion.

One person speaking out against immoral and all-around shitty business practices is childish and unprofessional, but if there were a few others it'd be fine?

Sasha never spoke out publicly against it though. If she had said "hey, this is why I'm gone" it'd be different. She didn't say anything aside from a few little comments on twitter.

If there was a mass walkout, I'd be willing to bet that there would be some kind of statement saying that they're walking out because they're treated like shit, and it wouldn't be a dozen people just sitting there making said little comments on twitter. If you feel strongly enough to walk out, feel strongly enough to speak out as well.

That's how I look at it at least. I've never said all of my thoughts and opinions are correct, just explaining how my brain works!
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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

I still think Harper should have just gone into John Oliver's show and just discuss the situation he's in and his independent contractor status. That would get him relieved from his contract ASAP.

I can see why he doesn't because he has a family and he probably doesn't want to blackball himself from WWE forever, especially when it might not suck so much when Vince is gone, but man.

This would have been an amazing piece if he did. I'm guessing we'll see something like that from someone if AEW really takes off as a long term alternative.
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NBIceman posted...

ExTha, I'm curious. What is your opinion of Orange Cassidy?

i find him thoroughly enjoyable why
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I think I'd have more respect if Sasha walked out because of the general treatment of the women's division on the main roster, and wasn't just salty because she didn't like dropping the titles so quickly.

I mean, everyone was cheering the IIconics winning the title so...
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RaidenGarai posted...

NBIceman posted...

What an incredibly bizarre opinion.

One person speaking out against immoral and all-around shitty business practices is childish and unprofessional, but if there were a few others it'd be fine?

Sasha never spoke out publicly against it though. If she had said "hey, this is why I'm gone" it'd be different. She didn't say anything aside from a few little comments on twitter.

If there was a mass walkout, I'd be willing to bet that there would be some kind of statement saying that they're walking out because they're treated like shit, and it wouldn't be a dozen people just sitting there making said little comments on twitter. If you feel strongly enough to walk out, feel strongly enough to speak out as well.

That's how I look at it at least. I've never said all of my thoughts and opinions are correct, just explaining how my brain works!

I equate her demanding the release in the first place to speaking out publicly but yeah I guess if you want an official PR statement like Harper did sure.

ExThaNemesis posted...

NBIceman posted...

ExTha, I'm curious. What is your opinion of Orange Cassidy?

i find him thoroughly enjoyable why

I have an idea for an article kicking around in my head that Naito is just a more serious Orange Cassidy which is why a seemingly increasing number of fans are getting tired of him and can no longer relate to him.
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And yes Dean went about it the absolutely right way which is why I respect the fuck out of him and he was a dude I already liked before.
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TheRock1525 posted...

and wasn't just salty because she didn't like dropping the titles so quickly.

wasn't it more specifically that the decision being made to take the titles off them that weekend undermined months of stories there had been talks about such as them defending in nxt etc, and retroactively proved to be an awful decision that benefited nobody?

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NBIceman posted...

I have an idea for an article kicking around in my head that Naito is just a more serious Orange Cassidy which is why a seemingly increasing number of fans are getting tired of him and can no longer relate to him.

you should absolutely not write such a stupid article that makes no sense
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NBIceman posted...

I equate her demanding the release in the first place to speaking out publicly but yeah I guess if you want an official PR statement like Harper did sure.

I'd prefer an official statement personally. To me, all she's doing by demanding her release is demanding her release. We're left to fill in the blanks as to what the reason is, and while there's ample evidence to tell us what it is, maybe if she had said something there would be a better glimpse into her thought process, and why she felt that way. It's a lot easier to sympathize with someone when they're telling you what's going on (assuming they're not insane like Antonio Brown).
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ExThaNemesis posted...

NBIceman posted...

I have an idea for an article kicking around in my head that Naito is just a more serious Orange Cassidy which is why a seemingly increasing number of fans are getting tired of him and can no longer relate to him.

you should absolutely not write such a stupid article that makes no sense

Both of them have a gimmick that they don't care about anything, up to and including wrestling. Naito even continually tells us to not care alongside him. So why should we?

Wrestling fans *want* to care about things. How can we relate to wrestlers who don't also care?
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NBIceman posted...

What an incredibly bizarre opinion.

One person speaking out against immoral and all-around shitty business practices is childish and unprofessional, but if there were a few others it'd be fine?

This is my problem, she didn't speak out against it. I'd be 100% behind it if she actually did.

I respect Moxley because he chose to leave when he could and spoke out about how awful it is.

I have trouble respecting Sasha because she didn't speak out, remained mostly cryptic, and then returned when they dangled what I assume is a bigger push in front of her as if nothing happened.

It didn't improve the situation any, it didn't help anybody.
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NBIceman posted...

Both of them have a gimmick that they don't care about anything, up to and including wrestling. Naito even continually tells us to not care alongside him. So why should we?

Wrestling fans *want* to care about things. How can we relate to wrestlers who don't also care?

thing is Naito does clearly care to some extent and OBVIOUSLY people relate to him considering he's the most over guy in the mf company dawg
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RaidenGarai posted...

To me, all she's doing by demanding her release is demanding her release

for once, you are completely and totally correct (in only this phrase)

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ExThaNemesis posted...

NBIceman posted...

Both of them have a gimmick that they don't care about anything, up to and including wrestling. Naito even continually tells us to not care alongside him. So why should we?

Wrestling fans *want* to care about things. How can we relate to wrestlers who don't also care?

thing is Naito does clearly care to some extent and OBVIOUSLY people relate to him considering he's the most over guy in the mf company dawg

Does he, though? He finally had some character development at WK12 and then he just kind of... didn't again.

I'm not arguing his overall popularity. All I'm saying is that more and more people (maybe it's a tiny vocal minority, maybe it's an actual groundswell) are starting to care about him less and less. I was never his biggest fan but always liked him, even pre-LIJ, but I really struggled to get into any of his matches this G1 outside of the one with Shingo. And I'm not the only one. There's a reason for that.
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Steiner posted...

RaidenGarai posted...

To me, all she's doing by demanding her release is demanding her release

for once, you are completely and totally correct (in only this phrase)

Gotta start somewhere!
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And I don't know that I agree he's the most over guy in the company. I don't know that NJPW *has* a "most-over" guy anymore. There's close to ten wrestlers who can get cheers over any of their opponents on any given night. Depends very much on the city and the situation.
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NBIceman posted...

Does he, though? He finally had some character development at WK12 and then he just kind of... didn't again.

I'm not arguing his overall popularity. All I'm saying is that more and more people (maybe it's a tiny vocal minority, maybe it's an actual groundswell) are starting to care about him less and less. I was never his biggest fan but always liked him, even pre-LIJ, but I really struggled to get into any of his matches this G1 outside of the one with Shingo. And I'm not the only one. There's a reason for that.

the REASON they are caring about him less and less is because the way he's been booked has now made him an unreliable protagonist.

he never wins and thus people are starting to be like "well why should we care"
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NBIceman posted...

And I don't know that I agree he's the most over guy in the company. I don't know that NJPW *has* a "most-over" guy anymore. There's close to ten wrestlers who can get cheers over any of their opponents on any given night. Depends very much on the city and the situation.

which one of them has the whole arena chanting their name along w their entrance theme every single time no matter what city
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