Board 8 > Any incels here?

(+) Yeah! (+)

foolm0r0n posted...

Again, you're talking about something that's completely off from what incels are. You are apologizing for rage and harassment and assault by comparing it to a left swipe.

Aggression is cumulative. There's plenty of times when I've realized I was going down a self destructive path and then bobbed out, but the same can't be said or expected about everyone. Some people are never taught to be as mindful of their own emotions, some people have a harder time identifying the problem that their currently in. It's the same as blaming tobacco companies for lung cancer, sure the people smoking could have made better choices, but there's no denying the HUGE role that corporations play in making an addictive and harmful product.
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I mean I don't think dating app companies are throwing Settlers of Catan into random profiles and going "got'em"

Your story and your point/conclusion don't seem very connected
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Romance and philosophy just dont mix
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SantaRPidgey posted...

Some people are never taught to be as mindful of their own emotions,

This is what we call toxic masculinity
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greengravy294 posted...

Romance and philosophy just dont mix

This seems to be pretty damn true. I'd say Romance and ideology as well
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StealThisSheen posted...

I mean I don't think dating app companies are throwing Settlers of Catan into random profiles and going "got'em"

Are you missing the point of the story? The point wasn't that Settlers of Catan was offensive to me, it's that the app was causing me to dehumanize and hold bizarre standards for women that I wouldn't in a million years hold to any human in the real world. The woman who liked Catan wasn't the first girl I swiped in disgust, but it was the time I realized that I was swiping with disgust in general.
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I get the story, I just don't get how the app itself is causing it.

Like, you basically misdirected disgust at a woman from something unrelated and then blamed the app.

I'm sure there's more to it, but that laid out as simply as you told it is like, the problem with incels.

So I'm trying to understand where the "the app caused it" is coming in
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SantaRPidgey posted...

foolm0r0n posted...

Again, you're talking about something that's completely off from what incels are. You are apologizing for rage and harassment and assault by comparing it to a left swipe.

Aggression is cumulative. There's plenty of times when I've realized I was going down a self destructive path and then bobbed out, but the same can't be said or expected about everyone. Some people are never taught to be as mindful of their own emotions, some people have a harder time identifying the problem that their currently in. It's the same as blaming tobacco companies for lung cancer, sure the people smoking could have made better choices, but there's no denying the HUGE role that corporations play in making an addictive and harmful product.

This logic is still flawed. Tobacco companies are blamed for lung cancer because every single person who smokes cigarettes is physiologically putting themselves at a higher risk for cancer.

thats not the case for dating apps - the vast majority of people are capable of using dating apps in a way that doesnt create intense feelings of disgust towards an entire gender.

SantaRPidgey posted...

It's the same as blaming tobacco companies for lung cancer, sure the people smoking could have made better choices, but there's no denying the HUGE role that corporations play in making an addictive and harmful product.

And yet every smoker with lung cancer can admit that they smoked in the past, intentionally.

The people you are defending do not have that awareness. They dismiss their faults as false facts of the universe and science and biology. It's like a dying smoker believing that people with 200 IQ automatically get lung cancer as a punishment from God for being too smart.
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Hannyabal posted...

SantaRPidgey posted...

foolm0r0n posted...

Again, you're talking about something that's completely off from what incels are. You are apologizing for rage and harassment and assault by comparing it to a left swipe.

Aggression is cumulative. There's plenty of times when I've realized I was going down a self destructive path and then bobbed out, but the same can't be said or expected about everyone. Some people are never taught to be as mindful of their own emotions, some people have a harder time identifying the problem that their currently in. It's the same as blaming tobacco companies for lung cancer, sure the people smoking could have made better choices, but there's no denying the HUGE role that corporations play in making an addictive and harmful product.

This logic is still flawed. Tobacco companies are blamed for lung cancer because every single person who smokes cigarettes is physiologically putting themselves at a higher risk for cancer.

thats not the case for dating apps - the vast majority of people are capable of using dating apps in a way that doesnt create intense feelings of disgust towards an entire gender.

And to follow that up, tobacco companies previously engaged in the deliberate deceit of their consumers in the face of overwhelming scientific evidence proving them wrong. They spent decades telling people that smoking was safe when they knew it wasnt true. Its an entirely different stratosphere of fault.

StealThisSheen posted...

I get the story, I just don't get how the app itself is causing it.

Like, you basically misdirected disgust at a woman from something unrelated and then blamed the app.

It's not the particular app, it's the fact that there are so many options online that you get spoiled for choice. It's kind of like how, if I had a friend who likes to draw and he showed me his stuff I'd be like "oh cool that's really sweet." But I go on Twitter where I follow dozens of artists, and I'm scrolling through hundreds of pictures "eh" "nice" "ok" "ehh" "not my thing" Basically, if you're inundated with stuff, it's easy to become jaded. Which isn't really a dating phenomenon (or the fault of any specific app/service) but just my brain on too much Internet.
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this topic inspired me to make a tinder account just to see how "easy" it really was to get laid using online dating. I haven't had sex in 10+ years, and I haven't been on a date in around 5 years.

in the course of about 2 days I have swiped right as much as possible before needing to refresh (takes 12 hours before they give you back more swipes)... basically with any person that I could conceivably see myself having physical contact with under any circumstances. I gave every single person the benefit of the doubt and assumed the best possible things about them based on their profile.

here are my findings:

I got 6 mutual matches in this time period, out of probably 200-300 right swipes. that means I'm getting 2-3% of people who actually match me back. for reference, my reply rate on OK Cupid was around 10%, but I also sent far fewer messages so that was a small sample size and probably contained selection bias.

3 matches went literally nowhere:

- 1 of them was like a bot, or at least trying to lead me to some kind of paid website service
- 1 of them unmatched me before I could message back. although this is partially my own fault. I wasn't really in the mood to do any chatting, so I went to play games for a few hours. when I came back I found that I had been unmatched.
- 1 person is in my mutual matches list still and I did not message her yet. I feel like we don't actually have anything in common and I can't think of any conversation I want to have. so I dunno if this one will really go anywhere.

of the remaining three

- 1 person I messaged once, got a reply, messaged a second time, and didn't get a second reply (it's been 24 hours)
- 1 person I have messaged but hasn't messaged me back yet (it's only been a short time)
- 1 person I have messaged back and forth a few times but it doesn't feel like it's really going anywhere.

oh. I also used my SUPER LIKE on someone who I thought seemed really weird, and they did not mutual match me... at least not yet.
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MariaTaylor posted...

this topic inspired me to make a tinder account just to see how "easy" it really was to get laid using online dating. I haven't had sex in 10+ years, and I haven't been on a date in around 5 years.

in the course of about 2 days I have swiped right as much as possible before needing to refresh (takes 12 hours before they give you back more swipes)... basically with any person that I could conceivably see myself having physical contact with under any circumstances. I gave every single person the benefit of the doubt and assumed the best possible things about them based on their profile.

here are my findings:

I got 6 mutual matches in this time period, out of probably 200-300 right swipes. that means I'm getting 2-3% of people who actually match me back. for reference, my reply rate on OK Cupid was around 10%, but I also sent far fewer messages so that was a small sample size and probably contained selection bias.

Just out of curiousity, how old are you and what sort of area do you live in (rural, urban, suburbs, etc)?

32.

just moved to a fairly major city. the exact spot where I live isn't really urban though so I guess suburbs.

also that 6th person who hadn't responded back, got back to me. seemed promising at first but turned out to be another scammer.

so 1/3 of my mutual matches so far have been bots or scammers. 1/2 have had no chemistry one way or the other. and the remaining 1/6 unmatched me within about 4 hours, before I had time to reply.
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these are not very good results considering only 2% of people are even mutually matching me.

counterpoint of course is that it's only been 2 days and I don't exactly know how long this sort of thing is supposed to take before you start seeing results.
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2% is pretty good considering you live in an urban area
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eh, maybe! I was also told 10% was pretty good for OK Cupid but it never felt very good? and even though I was getting responses at a "good" rate, most of them never went anywhere beyond a few crappy dates.
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This experiment is also flawed because you are yourself a bot.

But seriously, Tinder has a weird elo system where you only get high quality matches after a long time, and if you swipe very discernably. When the apps first came out people would just auto swipe right everyone, so to discourage that, they made the elo ranking and gave those people mostly bots and scammers.

So that's another aspect of it. Sure the apps are fun and easy but are you trying to platinum rank in league of legends just to get laid?
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MariaTaylor posted...

32.

just moved to a fairly major city. the exact spot where I live isn't really urban though so I guess suburbs.

also that 6th person who hadn't responded back, got back to me. seemed promising at first but turned out to be another scammer.

so 1/3 of my mutual matches so far have been bots or scammers. 1/2 have had no chemistry one way or the other. and the remaining 1/6 unmatched me within about 4 hours, before I had time to reply.

Interesting. I would expect at that age that women (and men, even) might be using tinder differently than people around my age (22-25ish) and that might account for some of the differences. Societal expectations about marriage, etc. are definitely different and more women might exclusively be looking for something that could potentially be long term. Whereas theres not a whole lot of women at 22-25 only looking for that.

Whenever I delete my account and start completely fresh, I usually end up with around 25ish matches per day for the first couple weeks (as people out there who have essentially already swiped on everyone in the area are shown my profile within a few days) and then maybe 5ish a day after that.

Bots happen from time to time, but usually their profiles have nonsensical grammar or slightly out of focus pictures and you can kind of avoid them off of that. Ultimately, Id say I probably have ~60% response rate for anyone I actually choose to message. I cant say ive really experienced people who unmatch before a conversation - maybe she deleted her account?

it would be a better use of my time than playing actual league!
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Hannyabal posted...

Interesting. I would expect at that age that women (and men, even) might be using tinder differently than people around my age (22-25ish) and that might account for some of the differences. Societal expectations about marriage, etc. are definitely different and more women might exclusively be looking for something that could potentially be long term. Whereas theres not a whole lot of women at 22-25 only looking for that.

could be. I have my age range set pretty wide (18-36). but I know a lot of people are going to use 30 as the cutoff point so I'm not even showing up in their potential matches.

Hannyabal posted...

Whenever I delete my account and start completely fresh, I usually end up with around 25ish matches per day for the first couple weeks (as people out there who have essentially already swiped on everyone in the area are shown my profile within a few days) and then maybe 5ish a day after that.

oh yeah, wow. if that amount of matches is normal then I'm probably wasting my time.
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I would get like 5-15 matches a day, but only like 1 or 2 convos, and like 0.01 actual dates
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MariaTaylor posted...

Hannyabal posted...

Interesting. I would expect at that age that women (and men, even) might be using tinder differently than people around my age (22-25ish) and that might account for some of the differences. Societal expectations about marriage, etc. are definitely different and more women might exclusively be looking for something that could potentially be long term. Whereas theres not a whole lot of women at 22-25 only looking for that.

could be. I have my age range set pretty wide (18-36). but I know a lot of people are going to use 30 as the cutoff point so I'm not even showing up in their potential matches.

Hannyabal posted...

Whenever I delete my account and start completely fresh, I usually end up with around 25ish matches per day for the first couple weeks (as people out there who have essentially already swiped on everyone in the area are shown my profile within a few days) and then maybe 5ish a day after that.

oh yeah, wow. if that amount of matches is normal then I'm probably wasting my time.

I mean, part of it comes down to how well you can market yourself from the pics and bio and set yourself apart from other guys on the app. If you have even semi-decent pictures (no selfies, relatively good quality), that should give you a big boost.

I feel like I can do a decent job of making my bio stand out, just because I live in a large city in the South but Im nothing like a typical Southern guy in looks or personality and I think that making that come across helps a lot. Im sure that changing your bio up could help you have a lot more success too.

I don't even understand hinge or bumble locations

Like hinge doesn't even say where they are and bumble they have floating locations too? Like how the heck do I know if you're even in my match location parameters
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Hannyabal posted...

I mean, part of it comes down to how well you can market yourself from the pics and bio and set yourself apart from other guys on the app. If you have even semi-decent pictures (no selfies, relatively good quality), that should give you a big boost.

this is also part of the problem, the loss of integrity put forth is just kind of hard to both spit and swallow. I don't like to do that, and I don't want to be with someone who does that.
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SantaRPidgey posted...

this is also part of the problem, the loss of integrity put forth is just kind of hard to both spit and swallow. I don't like to do that, and I don't want to be with someone who does that.

tbh I think foolmo had the right of it:

foolm0r0n posted...

But the apps are absolutely not full of introverted people at all. The apps are about volume and persistence. They are about digging through hundreds of profiles and playing the intro game with each one. It's a ton of effort and it requires a lot of social energy (extroversion). It's the worst part of meeting new people, repeated over and over in quick succession.

I wouldn't ever use a dating app/service because I don't want essentially a bunch of job interviews as a prerequisite to a relationship. I just hate selling/marketing/puffing myself up. I'd much rather just exist in a space and get to know people organically as they get to know me.

For sure, I'm not knocking anyone who finds success with dating apps and services! (of which there are many) But I can't see myself being so thirsty that I'd personally use them.
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It's not always about thirst.
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You have to understand that my good friend drakeryn is so successful and handsome he has the pick of the lot wherever he goes
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Please seek therapy and counseling. I'm not judging.

If you have any sort of internal suffering and hatred, please try to talk to someone, even if it isn't your parents.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/15/us/bianca-devins-discord-death-trnd/index.html

We need more rehabilitation and counseling opportunities in this country.
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Rango posted...

Please seek therapy and counseling. I'm not judging.

If you have any sort of internal suffering and hatred, please try to talk to someone, even if it isn't your parents.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/15/us/bianca-devins-discord-death-trnd/index.html

We need more rehabilitation and counseling opportunities in this country.

So... what does that story have to do with incels or anything?
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He is obviously saying if you have a lot of internal anger, etc about women to seek help instead of potentially end up causing harm like that young man. Incel culture is notorious for radicalizing men to have such feelings.

MariaTaylor posted...

Hannyabal posted...

Interesting. I would expect at that age that women (and men, even) might be using tinder differently than people around my age (22-25ish) and that might account for some of the differences. Societal expectations about marriage, etc. are definitely different and more women might exclusively be looking for something that could potentially be long term. Whereas theres not a whole lot of women at 22-25 only looking for that.

could be. I have my age range set pretty wide (18-36). but I know a lot of people are going to use 30 as the cutoff point so I'm not even showing up in their potential matches.

Hannyabal posted...

Whenever I delete my account and start completely fresh, I usually end up with around 25ish matches per day for the first couple weeks (as people out there who have essentially already swiped on everyone in the area are shown my profile within a few days) and then maybe 5ish a day after that.

oh yeah, wow. if that amount of matches is normal then I'm probably wasting my time.

I'm not sure 25 matches a day is normal. I would class myself as at least slightly above average in attractiveness and I also have the quirk of being English whilst living in America. I never got anywhere near that number of matches granted I was older than the person you quoted. Maybe it's also because it has been a long time since I used Tinder too. In the first week or so of using the app I'd get maybe 5-10 matches a day starting the second day. There was a noticeable drop off after the first week and it would be an odd match here and there.

I had a theory that during your first week on the app they boosted your profile presence and after that it went to normal. Deleting your account and then restarting definitely increased number of matches. It may not be the same now but you could also tell who had swiped yes to you before swiping them with pretty decent accuracy. It seemed to queue up people who had swiped right on you at the start of your list so it was highly likely that swiping right in the your first few matches of the day, would get a mutual match. You could also force close the app and reopen it a few times and if it showed you the same girl more than once, she probably swiped yes on you. I can't remember the exact specifics, you may have had to swipe once and then close and then swipe once again and if it was the same second girl it was a mutual.

I think that was also why it became harder for men to match than women. Since womens initial loadup of profiles was a massive list of all the dudes who swiped right a lot. Whereas there was not as many women doing that.

My girlfriend cringes every time I mention it since she had a terrible time on Tinder before me whereas I found her relatively easily and didn't have any bad experiences (she was actually the only one I agreed to meet and we talked for quite some time first). But I wouldn't give up on it, just don't pin high hopes on it. I'd recommend starting a fresh account and seeing if that increases matches (usually from Day 2 onwards)

Nrrr posted...

He is obviously saying if you have a lot of internal anger, etc about women to seek help instead of potentially end up causing harm like that young man. Incel culture is notorious for radicalizing men to have such feelings.

Well sure, but nothing about that article indicated anything about the guy being an incel or being angry at women. They got into some kind of argument and he snapped like a psycho. Seems just like an isolated incident. Although yeah he posted them on some kind of discord for some twisted reason.
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Waluigi1 posted...

Well sure, but nothing about that article indicated anything about the guy being an incel or being angry at women. They got into some kind of argument and he snapped like a psycho. Seems just like an isolated incident. Although yeah he posted them on some kind of discord for some twisted reason.

There's more articles. You can search #ripbianca on Google and learn more about their history. Him stalking her, she's going out with someone else, so he instead chooses to murder her.

That's incel culture at its worst. And we're trying to prevent more cases like that by promoting counseling and opening more opportunities for such around the country. Limited resources to counseling is a large reason why these types of crimes continue to happen.
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Well I guess you should have posted a better article. *shrug*
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Waluigi1 posted...

Well I guess you should have posted a better article. *shrug*

I mean all you need to do is know anything about that story to know its heavily linked to incel....
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Metal_DK posted...

Waluigi1 posted...

Well I guess you should have posted a better article. *shrug*

I mean all you need to do is know anything about that story to know its heavily linked to incel....

Well it's the first I've heard it... not sure why I would be assumed to already know about it.
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Haven't read the topic but Bumble >>>> OkCupid > Tinder based on my personal experience of meeting 4 or 5 people from each. Though to be fair, the fact I met one woman in particular who I totally hit it off with on Bumble probably heavily biases that take.

One time when I was on a date with a woman she pulled out her phone to show me her OkCupid inbox. I knew it was a lot easier for women to get matches, but I was blown. away. when I saw how many conversations she had to scroll through. It just didn't stop. It was mind boggling. And this was not at all a woman who you'd look at and think "oh yeah she obviously matches anyone she wants". This was an average looking woman who was a little overweight.

Like she could just swipe up full force and let it scroll forever until it stopped. Then do it again and again. I'm still tripping out just thinking about it. That many pickup attempts. Goodness.

A couple years ago, I asked my gf to create a Tinder account for a day just so I could see the male/female difference firsthand. She got messages from like a dozen different guys in the first ten minutes, and she used a very conservative profile pic.

Also, I got way more matches the one day I decided to be gay on Tinder than I did in all my time as a straight guy.
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Social media....we know its ramped the status quo up to a level the brain cant function with.

2007..god damnit
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Anyway, point being, talk to a friend you can trust if you start having unreasonable urges or crushes on someone. They can help you.
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I always feel like a bother if I go to someone with my problems :/
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You're not.

If you do, go to someone who you feel is mature and patient. Not everyone will give you sound advice.

Whenever my temper blows up, I go to very few people because they've actually come to me and said, "talk to me if you have a problem."

Know who they are and cherish them. Good friends stick together and give each other sound advice. If you're worried you - or someone you know - have these kinds of thoughts, exorcising them with someone who's been there is the best way to move forward.

Maybe then, you can continue paving that knowledge forward for someone else one day.
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Waluigi1 posted...

I always feel like a bother if I go to someone with my problems :/

This is a natural but entirely unhealthy attitude and it reinforces a negative cycle.

While some people are quite terrible, there is certainly someone who's willing to actually listen and try to help. And sometimes even they can't help, but talking it out can help even if they have nothing valuable to add.
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Waluigi1 posted...

I always feel like a bother if I go to someone with my problems :/

come to board 8

admittedly, I don't often have useful advice besides "that sucks man I hope things get better soon." but I love blogfaqs so it will literally never be a bother. make a topic, and then people who like blogfaqs can click on it, and people who don't won't
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As others have said, treasure the friends that are there for you.

In a slightly more cynical view... if you have the means, see a therapist. The stigma of "only really fucked up people see a therapist" is bullshit, and at the end of the day it's paying somebody for their time to listen to you. You're not a bother to them because they are being paid.
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Peace___Frog posted...

You're not a bother to them because they are being paid.

Not to mention legally obligated to keep everything confidential.

Gatarix posted...

Waluigi1 posted...

I always feel like a bother if I go to someone with my problems :/

come to board 8

admittedly, I don't often have useful advice besides "that sucks man I hope things get better soon." but I love blogfaqs so it will literally never be a bother. make a topic, and then people who like blogfaqs can click on it, and people who don't won't

Unfortunately, much of Board 8 is unsympathetic and unempathetic. Meaning there's tons of trolls and some sociopaths who would admit to enjoy watching others suffer. It promotes a bad cycle of unhealthy behaviors.

Not everyone, obviously. Few bugs here and there.
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you just feel that way because people made fun of your purple spandex Sephiroth fantasies

board 8 is pretty sympathetic to most people who aren't you
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yeah I think rango is maybe overplaying how many sociopaths are on this board
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