Poll of the Day > Should you be able to live off minimum wage?

(+) Yeah! (+)

And if not why do you hate humanity
---

According to Doctorfoxx, minimum wage should be able to make you afford a house, a car, food, savings and like 20% play money.
---

According to me, minimum wage @ 48 hours per week should let you afford an apartment (or a house for dual income), a cheaper car, food, RRSP minimums and then maybe $50~$200 monthly luxury spending

Which, for me, is about $1400/month... obviously that's not for everyone.
---

If you are going to have 40% of jobs (for adults) pay minimum wage or close, then yes, you should be able to live on it.

That being said, you can, even in the most expensive places in the US, but you won't be renting your own place, only a room. Other then that you can pretty much have everything else.

What really needs to be fixed is rent control, more then wages. Higher wages would be good as well (universally though, not just minimum wage. I would suggest increasing all hourly jobs by $3 an hour flat, and all yearly salaries by $6000 a month (3*40=120$ a week)*56 weeks is around 6k.

To jump start the economy and really make things work well for average people, combine both.

First, invest money in low cost housing, still make a profit, but rent 1 bedroom, 1 bathroom apartments in every area for $800 a month. This would actually still make a profit over time for the government.

This would also drastically reduce the average cost of housing in many areas (where a 1 bedroom is currently $1000+).

Then increase the incomes like mentioned above, and bam, far better then just raising minimum wage.

Won't make any real difference to those already making 200k + a year, but a HUGE difference to those making around $10 an hour right now (in places where that is the minimum wage).

Also stops the current trend of boosting min wage by $1 a year or so, which is causing many skilled jobs, or people who have gotten raises through seniority etc, to end up only getting min wage at this point.

That is totally not fair. If a cashier gets a bump from 9$ an hour to $12 an hour like in my area, over the last 3 years, a Cargiver, who used to make $12 an hour, but needed 3 months of training and to pay over $500 for the licence, should also get a bump, not stay at 12$ an hour like also happened in my area.

Sadly the same care giver who made $12 an hour 3 years ago, makes....yup, $12 an hour today. They should be making 15$ an hour. The more you invest (education/training/time on a job) the more you should get paid. Everyone deserves to get paid enough to live on, that is true, and the current minimum wage is too low.

The solution though is to raise ALL wages, not just the minimum.
---

Of course, not everyone can be "successful" with the way things are set up.

Lokarin posted...

According to me, minimum wage @ 48 hours per week should let you afford an apartment (or a house for dual income), a cheaper car, food, RRSP minimums and then maybe $50~$200 monthly luxury spending

Which, for me, is about $1400/month... obviously that's not for everyone.

Min wage varies by area but fed min wage is currently 9.25 and will be $10 by 2020..so lets just call it $10.

It's higher many places/states, but 10$ is a very easy number to use.

A 40 hour work week equals 400$ a week at min wage, and aproximately $1600 a month.

Taxes are taken out of that, but...as long as you take enough exemptions out on your W2 so you don't get much money back at the end of the year, or owe a bit, you actually pay a very small amount in taxes.

$1600 a month * 12 months 19,200$ a year. No taxes on the first 12k, and 10$ on the remaining 7,200. So total taxes are 720$ for the entire year. $720/52 (weeks in a year) is about 16$ a week in taxes (Social security etc will bring that up a bit...but the point is very little taxes).

You can, in most areas (Even where I live now) rent a 1 bedroom apartment and still pay the rest of your bills on $1600 a month (lets say $1500 after taxes).

$1000 for a 1 bedroom actually still leaves you $500 to spend on other crap, internet for sure (you can get that pretty cheap but lets say you spend $100 cause comcast is your only option, and you like it FAST, pay to rent eq etc). Still would leave $400 a month for food/transportation and entertainment. You ain't livin large, but you could survive on it.

Just not in the Bay area for instance (min for a 1 bedroom there is generally more then you make on min wage per month lol).
---

If you can't afford to pay your full-time workers enough for them to survive comfortably, then you've failed as a business owner.

That said, I think mandating a minimum wage at a federal level is stupid because it doesn't take into account the extreme variation in cost of living. Minimum wage should be legislated based on median rent and food costs within some reasonable radius of the workplace (e.g. a half-hour drive, provided the wage also takes the costs of driving into account) in question, which means that the minimum wage for a McD's in the Bay Area is going to be substantially higher than the minimum wage for a McD's in a small town.
---

well, y'know the phrase 'don't do the crime if you can't do the time'

well, if you can't afford to live... then you probably CAN afford to do the time. I'm not encouraging illegal activities, just sayin... you either pay your employees or you open the door to those who think it's more economical to just take your stuff
---

'Will minimum wage increase 2019?
Minimum wage increases in 2019. In 2019, the minimum wage rates of 21 states and Washington, D.C., will increase.'

'Currently there's a bill with the Indiana General Assembly that would increase the statewide minimum wage. If passed, the bill will raise the minimum wage from $7.25 an hour to $10 an hour starting June 30, 2019. It would increase again to $15 by 2021.'

'The purpose of the minimum wage was to stabilize the post-depression economy and protect the workers in the labor force. The minimum wage was designed to create a minimum standard of living to protect the health and well-being of employees.'

So if someone can't live off of minimum wage, that's not a standard of living or healthy.

'In his 1933 address following the passage of the National Industrial Recovery Act, President Franklin D. Roosevelt noted that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country.

By business I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level I mean the wages of decent living, he stated.'

? Been working since age 11. Minimum wage is for people just starting to get in to work. Hourly pay is based on what you can provide and how long been doing the job. If your over 20 and making what someone in high school is making or younger than you than your doing something wrong.

Moneymoney posted...

? Been working since age 11. Minimum wage is for people just starting to get in to work. Hourly pay is based on what you can provide and how long been doing the job. If your over 20 and making what someone in high school is making or younger than you than your doing something wrong.

Or there's a lack of jobs in the area and you take what you can get?

Also around here it's not, spouse was a hard worker covering others who flat didn't do their job (they got photographic proof and got told 'yeah we know just make up for it') and yet didn't get a raise in years. Some companies are cheap af.

Not lack of jobs. Oh my go on indeed.com right now and type in your zip code. Apply for every job on the first 2 pages I sure your phone will be blowing up tomorrow for em to have you come in for interview or start working.

Of course it should. If you're working full hours, you should be able to afford to sustain yourself.
---

No this assumes people who work in devalued jobs deserve human dignity.

Moneymoney posted...

Hourly pay is based on what you can provide

If, as a business owner, you're looking to buy a machine to do a task, but the machine costs more to maintain than you would be able to make by running it, do you demand that the machine be maintained at a loss so you can operate it at a profit? Or do you accept that you need to design your tasks more economically so you either turn a greater profit by using the machine or don't need it?

The cost of living is the cost of having a human do a job. If you can't afford to pay for an employee's cost of living, then you can't afford to hire them. If an employee's cost of living is greater than the income they will generate for you, then you have failed as a business and need the government to bail you out by paying your employees the rest of the salary you owe them. It's that simple, as tempting as it is to hide behind hideously outdated minimum wage laws and pretend you're doing well enough.
---

Moneymoney posted...

Not lack of jobs. Oh my go on indeed.com right now and type in your zip code. Apply for every job on the first 2 pages I sure your phone will be blowing up tomorrow for em to have you come in for interview or start working.

I'm not looking, I'm disabled.

My spouse was though, finally got a better one by working through ranks. They've since stopped providing the opportunities though.

For s&G looked and a lot of them require a car, which they didn't have at the time and/or are not even in this town. There's a good chunk of people who don't around here, honestly.

Like, yeah, town next to us has jobs. If you can get there. I saw a few jobs that I was unaware of, but overall learned what I already knew.

Some places aren't that great. Half the time I'm not even sure this town was made to sustain any sort of actual town, it's more a truckstop town with some industry.

I can live off NMW. I can also live without it.
---

I mean, presuming this is about the US minimum wage, minimum wage in the US would be like middle class income in most countries. Which is why I always thought talk of a living wage to be a bit silly. A living wage is much less than the minimum wage. It should be more like luxury living wage.

ChaosAzeroth posted...

Moneymoney posted...

Not lack of jobs. Oh my go on indeed.com right now and type in your zip code. Apply for every job on the first 2 pages I sure your phone will be blowing up tomorrow for em to have you come in for interview or start working.

I'm not looking, I'm disabled.

My spouse was though, finally got a better one by working through ranks. They've since stopped providing the opportunities though.

For s&G looked and a lot of them require a car, which they didn't have at the time and/or are not even in this town. There's a good chunk of people who don't around here, honestly.

Like, yeah, town next to us has jobs. If you can get there. I saw a few jobs that I was unaware of, but overall learned what I already knew.

Some places aren't that great. Half the time I'm not even sure this town was made to sustain any sort of actual town, it's more a truckstop town with some industry.

Lol

Seriously, do a bit of research.

If over 40% of the jobs in this country pay $15 an hour or less (at or close to minimum wage in most areas), how do you expect EVERYONE to get jobs that pay more than minimum wage?

Also who is going to work at gas stations, grocery stores, resteraunts (for non-waiters who get tips, cooks/dish washers, greeters etc), who is going to work all the retail positions, load the warehouses, put together kits/items for shipping etc.

As far as just emailing your resume etc to indeed.com or whatever, good luck, there is tons of competition for any non low paying jobs, because while 40%+ of jobs pay $15 or less, 62% of americans have gone to college and over 40% have at least obtained an AA degree. There are alot of people looking for "better jobs".
---

Just sounds to me you haven't been working that long or have no clue how to land a job with what you demand. If I was you just stay where you at cause you have no idea what I just talked about.

You should be able to live off $15 an hour. If you can't, then you are wasting money somewhere

Here in NY, it's at least $15 for fast food employees in NYC and soon everywhere else. More than some nurses, EMTs and even some in the fire department to name a few.

Fucking ridiculous

https://labor.ny.gov/workerprotection/laborstandards/workprot/minwage.shtm
---

? I could get you a job right now in my state that paying over 22 per hour just to start. Hires anyone if haven't worked there before. Just cut cow meat. They will train you.

@wolfy42 A quick question. Where are you getting 56 weeks from?
---

What the point of minimum wage if not to be the minimum needed to live off of?
---

You can just go to trade school become a welder. I know businesses always in demand paying 20-30 per hour cause welders hard to find. I figure nyc of course the most populated city jobs may be in higher demand and might just end up with a low pay job till find a job you want. This a hard debate. Really comes down on what you think your time is worth. I know you think oh this job will offer me 11 bucks an hour with 40 hours a week though I think I deserve 21 bucks for what I can bring to the table. I am sure another company will give what your asking if you can bring what you can bring. Work for 11 and find something that gives you what you think your time deserves. So many jobs out there and people will listen to you. Actions more than words. Come through show that you could replace there job.

LinkPizza posted...

@wolfy42 A quick question. Where are you getting 56 weeks from?

Was a typo, I thought I fixed it, was supposed to be 52.
---

The entire purpose of a minimum wage is to provide you the minimum of what you need to live.

BlackScythe0 posted...

The entire purpose of a minimum wage is to provide you the minimum of what you need to live.

food and shelter, amirite?
---

? I thought someone already told you what it was for. All it is just what amount of money what a business has to pay you to work there. Doesn't mean on your application can ask for more. Just what everyone has to pay that claims your ssi and does taxes. There many jobs that just pay you for work to show up and leave with cash when your down. I done with this subject. Hope you all have a great day.

miki_sauvester posted...

I mean, presuming this is about the US minimum wage, minimum wage in the US would be like middle class income in most countries. Which is why I always thought talk of a living wage to be a bit silly. A living wage is much less than the minimum wage. It should be more like luxury living wage.

Yeah, let's just completely ignore the cost of living in those countries.
---

miki_sauvester posted...

I mean, presuming this is about the US minimum wage, minimum wage in the US would be like middle class income in most countries. Which is why I always thought talk of a living wage to be a bit silly. A living wage is much less than the minimum wage. It should be more like luxury living wage.

Are you trying to say people in the US don't deserve to live off their work because their wages would then be great in 3rd world countries?

I don't know why everyone thinks usa where the freedom at. If your country fucking up than it on you. Educate yourself and work together. USA is small and so many other bigger countries. If you would step back and take a look at what needs to be done and work together I sure could make your country great. USA just tried to take care of immigrants and coming on the land just to see a better life? What does USA provide you with a better life when you immigrant? Facing each day to get sent back to your land. Money cartels already getting all that money. I just confused. So many countries to go to though pick usa.

Moneymoney posted...

I don't know why everyone thinks usa where the freedom at. If your country fucking up than it on you. Educate yourself and work together. USA is small and so many other bigger countries. If you would step back and take a look at what needs to be done and work together I sure could make your country great. USA just tried to take care of immigrants and coming on the land just to see a better life? What does USA provide you with a better life when you immigrant? Facing each day to get sent back to your land. Money cartels already getting all that money. I just confused. So many countries to go to though pick usa.

http://hdr.undp.org/en/2018-update

The US is doing pretty well at 13th overall. The US (and Canada) may have their problems, but we're solidly in the "ehhhh, good enough" range.
---

Yeah what I am trying to say why everyone want to come to the usa. So much land out there to go live on. Let us be and immigrate to else land. We already made it clear we don't want anyone else. Or the president did. I told you I not racist or bad person. Just move on to somewhere else. I telling you usa just stop with it the best and move on. Let us land rest in peace for years.

no, imma move there and get some welly
---

People should be able to. Part of the definition of minimum wage is being able to afford the basic necessities.
---

fishy071 posted...

People should be able to. Part of the definition of minimum wage is being able to afford the basic necessities.

If anything, they should make it illegal to skirt minimum wage payments because of tips.

Tips should be TIPS, otherwise they are meaningless
---

Most quality of life lists have the US down around 17-20....usually within 2 or 3 of China.

Here is one: https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/quality-of-life-rankings

So yeah, the whole Min wage = middle class in other countries doesn't float.

In fact, Those unable to work for a variety of reasons are better off then the middle class in the US (at least if anyone in their famaily deveolops a medical issue that eventually costs more then $1million dollars (you might think that is alot, but check out how much each night in ICU costs etc...it happens often).
---

You must be young; Minimum wage don't mean shit just what they paying you per hour. You better be full time and getting overtime hours to get by. Telling you just for teenagers just to work learn how to get hands dirty. If you never worked as a teen and really have a silver spoon oh my i might start job after college for the first time oh my you only want to pay me 11 bucks? That why people get stupid. Oh I just got out of this school though I never worked though another person resume says oh I already got this and know what to do to take care of the company that why you all have problems of getting jobs. Your lazy ass in middle school can't get a paper route or high school get a full time job while in school to learn work? If you got a silver spoon you don't care cause you don't even need to work.

Lokarin posted...

Tips should be TIPS, otherwise they are meaningless

I might agree with you if there wasn't an intense social pressure to tip, but unfortunately we live in a tipping culture and a lot of tipped employees will take punitive action against you if you're a repeat customer who tips below average. Not to mention a lot of waiters would be pissed if tipping was abolished and they got a regular wage because of the obscene amount of tips some waiters make. Really it's almost criminal that there are waiters who make more than the cooks in their restaurant.

Min wage should be based on the average cost of a 1 bedroom apartment per month within a 5 mile radius of work +20% per month, with no more then 40 hours a week required (Any over that is both over time, and additional income over the minimum. If there are less then 100 apartments available in that radius, only then is it extended until 100 apartments are included in the average.

Part time minimum wage jobs still pay the same $ per hour as if it was full time.
---

Moneymoney posted...

? Been working since age 11. Minimum wage is for people just starting to get in to work. Hourly pay is based on what you can provide and how long been doing the job. If your over 20 and making what someone in high school is making or younger than you than your doing something wrong.

I can actually tell you were working instead of going to school.

Moneymoney posted...

You must be young; Minimum wage don't mean shit just what they paying you per hour. You better be full time and getting overtime hours to get by. Telling you just for teenagers just to work learn how to get hands dirty. If you never worked as a teen and really have a silver spoon oh my i might start job after college for the first time oh my you only want to pay me 11 bucks? That why people get stupid. Oh I just got out of this school though I never worked though another person resume says oh I already got this and know what to do to take care of the company that why you all have problems of getting jobs. Your lazy ass in middle school can't get a paper route or high school get a full time job while in school to learn work? If you got a silver spoon you don't care cause you don't even need to work.

Again, about 40% of jobs pay min wage or near min wage. They have to be filled by someone, also min wage isn't the minimum. Under the table jobs are the minimum which is what I worked until I was 16 and graduated from HS. They still exist and depending on the area can be much less then min wage (although in this area they generally pay around $10 an hour...which is $2 less per hour then min wage).

Meanwhile of all the jobs within 3 miles of my house, almost EVERY one of them pays $15 an hour or less, almost everyone at safeway, subway, bskin robins, burger king, farrellies pizze, the 2 chineese places, good will, mc donalds, DQ, taco bell, dominos, the pet store across the street. The large home goods store across the street, the gas stations, the taco place, another subway, Walmart (grocery only), mods pizza, and a bunch of little other stores. It's actually a fairly big/full hub, and yup, i'd say 95% of everyone working in this area, tons of jobs....make $15 or less an hour.

They would happily be making more somewhere else if it was super easy for them to do so.
---

wolfy42 posted...

Moneymoney posted...

You must be young; Minimum wage don't mean shit just what they paying you per hour. You better be full time and getting overtime hours to get by. Telling you just for teenagers just to work learn how to get hands dirty. If you never worked as a teen and really have a silver spoon oh my i might start job after college for the first time oh my you only want to pay me 11 bucks? That why people get stupid. Oh I just got out of this school though I never worked though another person resume says oh I already got this and know what to do to take care of the company that why you all have problems of getting jobs. Your lazy ass in middle school can't get a paper route or high school get a full time job while in school to learn work? If you got a silver spoon you don't care cause you don't even need to work.

Again, about 40% of jobs pay min wage or near min wage. They have to be filled by someone, also min wage isn't the minimum. Under the table jobs are the minimum which is what I worked until I was 16 and graduated from HS. They still exist and depending on the area can be much less then min wage (although in this area they generally pay around $10 an hour...which is $2 less per hour then min wage).

Meanwhile of all the jobs within 3 miles of my house, almost EVERY one of them pays $15 an hour or less, almost everyone at safeway, subway, bskin robins, burger king, farrellies pizze, the 2 chineese places, good will, mc donalds, DQ, taco bell, dominos, the pet store across the street. The large home goods store across the street, the gas stations, the taco place, another subway, Walmart (grocery only), mods pizza, and a bunch of little other stores. It's actually a fairly big/full hub, and yup, i'd say 95% of everyone working in this area, tons of jobs....make $15 or less an hour.

They would happily be making more somewhere else if it was super easy for them to do so.

So you live in a place with no construction unions, no sales offices, no trade industry, no governing bodies, no hospitals, and no call centers? That sounds like Hell! Remind me never to go there.
---

$15 minimum wage: We demand up to 105% more pay for doing zero additional work. Companies can't afford to pay you more than they do if you don't earn them more money. If you took Jeff Bezos' gross Amazon salary and divided it among all of Amazon's employees, each person would be able to afford an item off the Extra Value Menu once a year? Do the same for Walmart and eat there once a month. Do it for AT&T and you can eat there once a week.
---

I don't even know I want to throw my thoughts to this subject anymore. Do you think oh I just going to get out of college and get paid this amount of money? Oh wait a person has more to give to the company than hire that person. Your lazy ass don't start working early to just get some money and see how companies work through life than your stupid ass just oh it school. My parent will buy me a car I just going to enjoy life young. Get your ass off your ass and work. If I could work full time at age 11 getting my money and food in my gut I sure you can. Got ged at age 15 than went to college cause army wouldn't except me cause of crimes I did when was young.I really want to help you all. If any advice I could give you is joing the military to get the free house, free kids care, oh my spend 20 years get a pention.

Moneymoney posted...

I don't even know I want to throw my thoughts to this subject anymore. Do you think oh I just going to get out of college and get paid this amount of money? Oh wait a person has more to give to the company than hire that person. Your lazy ass don't start working early to just get some money and see how companies work through life than your stupid ass just oh it school. My parent will buy me a car I just going to enjoy life young. Get your ass off your ass and work. If I could work full time at age 11 getting my money and food in my gut I sure you can. Got ged at age 15 than went to college cause army wouldn't except me cause of crimes I did when was young.I really want to help you all. If any advice I could give you is joing the military to get the free house, free kids care, oh my spend 20 years get a pention.

What the hell are you talking about?

You can't get your ged at 15 because you are legally required to be in school until 16 at least.

Walmart made 130 billion in profit last year, and has 1.5 million employees in the US.

Keep in mind that the profit is AFTER paying all the employees the salaries they already make, and all the other costs.

If you divide the 130 billion by the number of employees you get 86,666.66$ EACH.

In addition to what they already make.

So if profits were split evenly among all employees of Walmart, they would be able to buy a bit more then an item off the dollar menu.

But wait..what if it was just 10% of the total profits (which is what I advocate across the board for profit sharing).

That would STILL be an additional $8,666 each. It would not even be really noticable to the owners etc, but I bet you anything it would make a HUGE difference in those 1.5 MILLION peoples lives.
---

BlackScythe0 posted...

Moneymoney posted...

I don't even know I want to throw my thoughts to this subject anymore. Do you think oh I just going to get out of college and get paid this amount of money? Oh wait a person has more to give to the company than hire that person. Your lazy ass don't start working early to just get some money and see how companies work through life than your stupid ass just oh it school. My parent will buy me a car I just going to enjoy life young. Get your ass off your ass and work. If I could work full time at age 11 getting my money and food in my gut I sure you can. Got ged at age 15 than went to college cause army wouldn't except me cause of crimes I did when was young.I really want to help you all. If any advice I could give you is joing the military to get the free house, free kids care, oh my spend 20 years get a pention.

What the hell are you talking about?

You can't get your ged at 15 because you are legally required to be in school until 16 at least.

You can actually graduate early if you test out before 16, although I didn't graduate until my 16th birthday (that was just a coincidence though). You can't just drop out and take your GED even at 16 as far as I know (unless it has changed). I was very bored at school and had been working since 11 (under the table) so I did 4 years of testing in 1 year to graduate early (with a 4.0 and a full scholarship to college that I didn't use).

I don't remember the results, but trust me, it was a TON of work in a short time. I was able to just skim the course work and take the tests/write the papers but it was still 4 years worth of work in 1 year. I was not able to just test out (I tested 12th + in elementary in fact, and got moved forward and put in an accelerated program, but I still would not have graduated till I was 18 at that rate (my birthday is in November, so I started a year later in Vermont).

There was something called a advanced diploma or something like that you could get from taking 12 unites of college I believe, but required you to pay for college etc. I worked as a janitor to pay for the private school where I did the 4 years of work in 1 year. That was pretty much the only way I saw of actually graduating but being able to work full time fairly soon at that age.
---

? amy age can pass a grade ahead of any age. There so many smart kids out in the world younger than us as the moment going to a great school for free. I just don't think you know what you talking about.