Board 8 > Umineko playthrough topic 2

(+) Yeah! (+)

She is still alive with a single heart, with the power of.... whatever it is. I have quite a lot to say about Beatrice this chapter but will save it for later.

Battler suddenly transports Evatrice to purgatory and deflects the bunny laser. No fucking way. I mean, thats great. And Beatrice is still alive. Virgilia is there too. How? Can they die as many times as they want? I cant make sense of these two worlds. I might as well stop trying.
The game is resumed with a different opponent. Get hyped. But Im too tired to continue today.

Yeah, understandable. There's a lot to take in. And I'm hyped too to see your thoughts of EP3 as a whole.
---

Looks like Beatrice has won Battler over, he has all but accepted the existence of magic. He still doesn't accept his new opponent as a witch, but the meaning has changed from 'you're not a witch' to 'you're not fit to be a witch'

The battle is heating up but... I still don't get how these red words work, like when the witch is not allowed to say something in red.

Can I say why Kyrie changed her mind on going out and get food is because she got hungry, or that she saw the real Eva getting ill? No, probably not...

The point is that Kyrie thought that food isn't needed, but went to the mansion anyway. The counterargument I would give is that Kyrie left the guesthouse for another reason that has nothing to do with food and ended up in the mansion.
'Not going to get food' = 'not going to the mansion' but
'Going to the mansion' =/= 'Going to get food'

Calling it now that Beatrice will be the one to counter Evatrice

handsomeboy2012 posted...

The point is that Kyrie thought that food isn't needed, but went to the mansion anyway. The counterargument I would give is that Kyrie left the guesthouse for another reason that has nothing to do with food and ended up in the mansion.
'Not going to get food' = 'not going to the mansion' but
'Going to the mansion' =/= 'Going to get food'

handsomeboy2012 posted...

Calling it now that Beatrice will be the one to counter Evatrice

Oh yeah, feels good to be right. Now I have think of that particular reason.

Kyrie got a lighter and cigarette butt... uh... she has a smoking addiction and wants to grab a cig?

Kyrie doesn't smoke. The cigarette on the other hand does turn out to be important evidence. Whoa, this is real logic, not the bullshit they have all been using for a long time.

I messed up the ADV mode settings and the game crashed. fuck.

handsomeboy2012 posted...

Kyrie doesn't smoke. The cigarette on the other hand does turn out to be important evidence. Whoa, this is real logic, not the bullshit they have all been using for a long time.

isn't it nice...

It is emphasized again that there are NO MORE than 18 humans on the island. I argued much earlier than 4 of them can be considered non-human, so we may have a few humans unaccounted for. But then it is said no non-humans have any connection to this game... hmm... can it be more specific on what 'connection to this game' means? What about someone committing murder with a motive unrelated to the game?

15 people dead, 3 people alive, all listed out. A human definitely did it. The people alive have nothing to do with the murder. Evatrice said a witch counts as a human and she did it but, wouldn't that make her an extra person and contradict that fact that there are no more than those 18 people? Did I miss something?

For starters, witches and humans are totally different things, Beatrice and then Evatrice has been going on about how humans are inferior all the time. 'Witches are humans who know magic' is NOT said in red, Kinzo can do magic and is still a human.
So Evatrice has basically admitted she is a lowly human.

Beatrice is going to deny witches in red which has some harmful effect. If she doesn't, Evatrice would be revived and can control the island for eternity. I just don't understand this. AT ALL.

Just like in ep2, some very important information is spoken I get to see none of it

??? They're at the Golden Land. Battler got there because he finally accepted Beatrice, maybe. This is too good to be true. These kinds of utopias never last long.

What the fuck is that? The whole thing is just an act? What's the point of episode 3 then, the plot was starting to go somewhere and it gets thrown away like that? Nothing has bloody changed at all!

Um I guess it introduced some characters and such. From the credits I think that she is called Ushiromiya Ange... I think Rudolf Kyrie had another daughter, but how old is she? Don't tell me now, I'm sure I'll find out soon.

I need a breather ffs. Will finish the Tea Party and ??? tomorrow.
So glad I didn't voice my opinions on some characters prematurely. I need to do a re-evaluation.

Damn this game for baiting me so hard.
Insert 'they had us in the first half' meme pic here.

handsomeboy2012 posted...

What the fuck is that? The whole thing is just an act? What's the point of episode 3 then, the plot was starting to go somewhere and it gets thrown away like that? Nothing has bloody changed at all!

of course not... because witches aren't real, and therefore the golden land doesn't exist...

handsomeboy2012 posted...

So glad I didn't voice my opinions on some characters prematurely. I need to do a re-evaluation.

i did voice my opinions and so i looked silly

but the truth is i do actually agree with you, the plot of episode 3 was following a lot of directions that made a lot of sense in terms of development and themes, and then apparently it was all not real, which was... sort of weird

Yeah, I had some thoughts on ep3 and now they had to be scrapped. Will need to play a bit more to get the big picture.

Kihihihihihi.
---

The Tea Party starts with the 3 witches talking about irrelevant stuff. Lamdba says she found out that Evatrice is in fact... Eva. Didn't see that coming at all. Bern threatens to spoil Higarushi. How long until it is fully translated?
Oh and the real Eva was left alive this time. Not that it matters very much.

Lambdadelta is the one who made Beatrice a witch, and she is using Beatrice's game as a means to trap Bernkatsel. This does not look like an act. A lot of characters have these sudden evil-side personality reveal.
That was a short Tea Party. And for ????, we get to 1998... huh.

I'm sorry, is Lambdadelta being evil a sudden reveal...?

It's a continuation of episode 3, so it matters after all. That girl really is Ange who grew up since then, filling up the last human character slot. Didn't think she would be important after getting mentioned... like once in the whole game? That's foreshadowing for you.

Dels posted...

I'm sorry, is Lambdadelta being evil a sudden reveal...?

No, I'm just saying Umineko likes to... change the background music and show a new set of sprites to emphasize what that person truly is at moment's notice. I haven't doubted for a second that she is bad. This isn't something rare in games but it has been done in Umineko a few times already

6 out of 8 main Higurashi chapters are out on Steam. Chapter 7 "is now out of beta and the team has begun finalizing the release build!" as of May of 10th so it presumably shouldn't be too much longer before that arrives. They've also already finished the translation and basic editing on Chapter 8 too but there's been at least a several month gap between all previous Higurashi Steam releases so no guarantee that's even coming out this year. And I have no idea what to expect on how long it'll take for the PS3 voice acting and art patches to be released after those episodes.
---

Ange-Beatrice. There are now 4 people that has or had the name of Beatrice. How will a normal high school girl be helping the family? She's not going to really gain magical powers and become Angetrice... right? I mean, the real Eva couldn't actually do magic or become Evatrice.

AxemRedRanger posted...

6 out of 8 main Higurashi chapters are out on Steam. Chapter 7 "is now out of beta and the team has begun finalizing the release build!" as of May of 10th so it presumably shouldn't be too much longer before that arrives. They've also already finished the translation and basic editing on Chapter 8 too but there's been at least a several month gap between all previous Higurashi Steam releases so no guarantee that's even coming out this year. And I have no idea what to expect on how long it'll take for the PS3 voice acting and art patches to be released after those episodes.

Might try it when all 8 chapters are done. I think I can deal with the absence of PS3 art and voices

It ends with Ange jumping off the roof, probably straight through the window of the 'Golden Land' place. In the case of ep1 and 2, Ange is going to immediately inherit all the fortune at the age of 6, without the gold. It's a mystery why Bern went for this particular Ange instead of many other possible ones, but this probably isn't a big deal.

The episode 4 menu screen is Beatrice's portrait. Borrrringgg.

Now to start thinking about character rankings among other things. This will take a while, my brain's all scrambled from all the information.

Right now all I'll say is that ep3 is my favourite so far, but not without some gripes

Lots to unpack this episode. Something I would like to address first is how much of this is real and how much are total bollocks. There are things that are probably be beyond Beatrices control and she had to improvise along the way. And as they say, the best lies always have some truth in them.

What I think is all an act:
-The fight between Beatrice and Virgilia. Done to put Virgilia on Battlers side.
-The bunny girls helping Evatrice. They are in fact working for Beatrice. I dont think Beatrice actually got sewed or tortured, she would not be willing to take so much pain just to trick Battler.
-The Golden Land being a happy place.
-Beatrice losing power and transferring it to Evatrice and becoming weak.
-Beatrice denying witches. She is actually doing some magic to destroy Evatrice, so she told Battler to cover his ears so he can't hear what she is saying.

What I think is true:
-The existence of Evatrice. Eva's reactions, survival and passing the name to Ange suggests that Evatrice did happen at some point. Maybe she can do Endless Magic on her own. Maybe she can't do shit and it is actually Beatrice reading her mind and making her think she knows magic. Either, she's a pawn and can be removed easily.
-The first twilight up to Kumasawa. There was nothing suspicious in how Beatrice acted.
-Beatrice's past, like learning from Virgilia and being trapped by Kinzo.
-Beatrice taking a liking to Maria.

Episode 3 is a lot meatier than the last one. I spent much more time here, though I don't know if it is really longer or I took too long pausing and posting. Either way, it's a lot more eventful, with highlights like Beatrice 'vs' Virgilia, Evatrice's succession, Rudolf and Kyrie fighting (my absolute favourite), etc. Quite a roller coaster as they keep shaking things up in unexpected ways. Lots of new characters too.

Mystery solving is better, it's not all similar murders with locked rooms and keys this time. The one on why Kyrie went to the mansion has real logic and using evidence brings me back to the usual murder mysteries and is nice to have once in a while. Not that I hate the bullshitting and action scenes, I've already fully accepted they are part of Umineko.

As for the reveal that it is all an act... might as well describe my thoughts during the playthrough. Beatrice getting development is something I thought would occur soon and was glad to see it, setting up Evatrice as the main villain some time in the future. As it goes on I started to feel it's way to quick - a cruel witch who lived 1000 years is doing a complete 180 because, um, Battler got mad at her? Shoving a complete face turn into a single episode? I was thinking about complaining during character rankings.

Instead he plot went the opposite direction at the last moment. Needless to say, I got bamboozled.
A lot of it became non-events in an instant and I left rather unsatisfied. Now I still would have issues if Beatrice became a good guy here, so my preferred situation would be somewhere in the middle, like Beatrice is still your enemy but has changed a bit. Maybe it could still happen, idk really.

Episode rankings
1. Episode 3
2. Episode 1
3. Episode 2

Even with this problem I still put ep3 at the top because almost everything else is great, but it's not above second place by much.

In the end the most substantial developments are some history on Beatrice, and Ange getting dropped into the game. Hopefully it would lead to something bigger.

Btw I'm interested in knowing what you guys think about 'It's all a lie', or whatever it is called around here

I like the idea of it but I was a bit confused because I could swear there were scenes between Beatrice+Virgilia where they were alone but still acting fake-nice? Even though Battler wasn't watching? I'm not certain of it though. But if there were scenes written only to trick that viewer that have no in-universe explanation that would be sort of cheap, in my opinion. Still generally a well-executed twist.

Like I said, I was a bit surprised because I was expecting the game to develop Beatrice and her relationship with Battler and so it made a lot of sense that it was starting to happen (we couldn't spend 8 chapters of just WITCHES ALL BAD, DENY WITCHES, NO NUANCE, could we?) and then apparently it wasn't.

It's hard to discuss without some additional context coming next episode. I don't remember being too surprised by the twist; it was a bit too transparently by-the-book for Ryu07 to ever play it straight.
---

For the record I don't think it's some cheap twist, Beatrice's attitude was becoming less and less believable and it being fake probably makes more sense. It's just that a lot of content became kind of pointless and things seemed to go back to square one again (well maybe 'square two' because of Ange)

Yeah, it's hard to talk about my ~true feelings~ because there's so much more to the story that hasn't been revealed yet. At the end of Ep 3 though, the 'lol we're still evil!' didn't surprise me because Beatrice and Virgilia had discussed the North Wind and Sun earlier, so I realized that was their strategy.
---

re: ep 3 and the north wind/sun:
https://twitter.com/tortokhod/status/1123393786237915138
---

Character rankings, a bit shorter. With so many new ones I got lazy.

24. Maria
The reason why she and her mother were killed. Was so smug about it too.

23. Kinzo
Managed to make me feel bad for Beatrice of all people as if my opinion isnt low enough already. Congratulations.

22. Evatrice
Hate her guts. I get that she is a representation of Evas worst traits, and I am supposed to hate her, but theres nothing remotely interesting about her except being comically evil. Her laugh is like someone with lung disease and is even worse than Marias. Then she got destroyed by Beatrice and probably wont ever appear again, so her character is pretty disposable. At least her theme song is good.

21. Lambdadelta
Another evil witch. Terrible name. Also a loli and yandere(?) which is not my preferred anime trope.

20. Krauss
Finally, does not die on the first twilight. Hes aware that he has been a jackass all along which is a bit better than before.

19. Nanjo
Zzzzzzzz

18. Kumasawa
How many lines of dialogue did she even get? Is she Virgilia, or was she killed beforehand so that Virgilia can disguise as her and trick Battler? Either way, shes irrelevant. Should go back to a normal human in later episodes.

17. Kanon
I called him a stubborn whiner last episode and not much has changed. He still has more bark than bite, easily falling for Beatrices goading and wordplay. Its just so easy to manipulate him.

The rest will come later

16. Gohda
Can the poor man ever catch a break?

15. Jessica
Another big drop (she was 3rd in episode 1 and 7th in episode 2). When something happens, she abandons the cheery/headstrong personality that I like to turn into a crybaby. She keeps losing her temper, accuses others for no reason, and pathetically calls for Kanons help. I understand this is normal for a teenage girl, but I am getting tired of her being such a burden.

14. Genji
Mercy killed Shannon and Kanon, showing that he does have some emotion and is not a robot. Otherwise, completely forgettable.

13. George
Um, he works hard, and tries way too hard to look mature. Dont have much to say about him.

12. Vrigilia
She was a nice, harmless and helpful ally and nothing much suggests otherwise until that very moment. When I said I caught off guard, it was more on her than Beatrice (which wouldnt be out of character). Im conflicted about this because while this made her less bland it nullified a potentially interesting student-teacher relationship where on different sides, and turned her into another one of those hahaha Im so evil witch. Oh, and shes probably the reason why Beatrice was bad.

11. Bernkatsel
Finally decided to do something after sitting on her ass for so long. The only witch whos really on your side (inb4 she becomes evil too) which automatically makes her somewhat unique. I also like the mysterious aura that she gives out. That tail though, just why.

10. Hideyoshi
I cant think of a single negative personality trait on him. Without her husband Eva would have instantly gone off the rocker, as evidenced by Evatrice and 1998 Eva. Hes almost too perfect, but lacks the presence to get a higher rank.

9. Shannon
She as good as last episode. Too bad as a bunch of other characters blow past her.

Characters not going to be ranked this ep:
Ange (too soon), Stake sisters (forgot about them) and Bunny girls (too soon)

8. Rosa
This one is hard to rank. We see a craftier, meaner and smarter-than-she-looks Rosa, and I have a feeling that this is her true self that she suppressed not from fear of her siblings, but to lower their guards. The person that she is afraid of the most is probably Maria. There will be more to her, hopefully.

7. Natsuhi
Surviving for longer this time exposes some of her less desirable points namely, getting worked up over the smallest of details, and being a fangirl of Kinzo. I hate Kinzo, stop liking what I dont like!

6. Eva
At her best she is a great mother and husband, and at her worst she is a maniac who obsesses with the Head Position and looks down upon anyone not as talented as her. Both of her sides are more extreme than that of Rosas but she is nonetheless a believable and engaging character. Problem is, she spent a good amount of this episode crying instead of shitting on the others (which I love seeing her do), so with all the focus she didnt rise that much.

5. Beatrice
I had planned on writing a long analysis on Beatrices character, why I think she changed, what made sense and what didnt. Well, I dont have to anymore! That said, she only came up with the act after she pissed off Battler (thanks zyxyz for the link), so some of her reactions might be real after all.

4. Rudolf
Rudolf is what I want to be like when I become middle-aged.

3. Kyrie
Kyrie is what I want to be like if I were female. Minus the miscarriage and getting her boyfriend stolen part. That would suck.

2. Battler
He is getting much better at this game, though occasionally still needs others to give him tips and bail him out. Telling off Beatrice, no matter it worked or not, are Battlers best moments in this chapter and really showcases his personal values (which I agree 100%). I could have put him lower for getting duped so easily, but that happened to me too, so I have no right to fault him for that.

1. Ronove
Absolutely stole the show by being smooth as fuck, having a hot voice, and taking shots at Beatrice. You just know that something witty or sarcastic will come out when he opens his mouth. Every moment he is on screen is great entertainment. I think he knew and went along with Beatrices strategy to deceive Battler, but who cares whos side hes on, I want more of him already.

This ranking took way too long. Next time I would have to rank at least 27 characters, and who knows how many there are at the end.

Going to start episode 4 tomorrow! In the meantime feel free to ask me stuff or tell me why a character is ranked too low/high

tfw when rosa gets 2 chapters of focus and development (well, one a half) but you can still say "There will be more to her, hopefully."