Board 8 > Umineko playthrough topic 2

(+) Yeah! (+)

Episode 4 is Alliance of the Golden Witch. Beatrice is going to make an alliance with someone? The difficulty level depends on you... these are getting more vague. We get straight to the point, en route to Rokkenjima.

Going by the last episodes, each one gives focus on one of the adults. I think this might be Rudolf or Kyrie's turn to shine, with some history from episode 3 to build on, and the introduction of their daughter.

Oh that's why Bernkatsel has a tail. Witches turning into black cats is the most cliche thing, ever. And Ange is somehow a witch overnight because she is related to Eva, whose imaginary friend became a witch and then disappeared? Time travel makes her powerful against Beatrice? And now she is on a mission to deny witches. Yup, this is all so easy to understand.

Wasn't Ange with Battler in last episode, what happened to that? The structure of the world/game board/whatever gets more complex again, there are now 2 people in the real world walking around, stopping time as they please and cannot be seen by anyone. Meanwhile Battler and some others are sitting in Purgatory watching this.

EDIT DONT READ THAT caps

Edit: sorry, I accidentally posted a spoiler. Hope you didn't read it. ;;>_> I forgot when something occurred. I'm sorry. ;_;
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The opening changed, now including all the new characters. It's way overdue. And Evatrice is here, can she return, somehow?

Beatrice is concerned that Battler is too devastated to start the game. Huh. The North wind and sun strategy is already over, you can stop the act now, thanks.
Being awesome as always, Ronove basically summed up my thoughts. You beat him to the ground, of course he won't be happy to come out and play with you.

Looks like Beatrice wasn't malevolent when tricking Battler last time. Battler isn't even that upset, and even teamed up with Ronove to get back at her. No way, this must be the continuation of the strategy, I refuse to believe it, nuh-uh.

Ok he is upset. Feels like Battler is now taking the game more seriously than Beatrice.

Ange however doesn't think Battler is serious enough. I have to agree somewhat, he has let his guard down way too often. He has played the game 3 times and achieved nothing.

So cold and cynical. Ange can be trusted, right? I am so paranoid right now.

That reminds me, I don't have a single clue on what happens to Battler, Ange, Beatrice, or anyone in the Ushiromiya family if Battler does win. The obvious result is that the humans don't die and go on with their lives, but it is never going to be that simple.

An Ange flashblack. Or is it flashforward? Damn time travel.
People were absolutely appalling. Why did Eva bother to adopt Ange if all she was going to do is abuse her. It would be better if she went and died along with her family, but then we won't have episode 4 anymore.

How fucked up your life must be to resort to looking up to Maria through her diary. She must have read that a million times already and still didn't get tired of it. If only she knew about Maria's witch-mode and how annoying she gets.

Never mind that comment about better off dying, it's either being killed and revived for fun again and again, or suffering in life. There's no winning for the family.

'Card Master Sakura' hey I get that reference. The real thing didn't exist in the 1980s though. Think I came across some other nods to games and anime, can't remember them now.

Maria and Ange's situation is barely comparable. Maria was bullied at school, but she still has her mother, her cousins, and a stuffed animal. Ange had no one, not even a toy.

What a huge diary. Maria can write down every little thing and conversation in there. That or Ange has a some great imagination. Or maybe, there is magical power in that diary that lets readers visualize it. Either way I'm not interested Maria's birthday party in such detail, please get on with the story.

The diary really is magical. Of course it is. Are we sure this isn't Ange talking to herself?

Now it's back to 1998, after Ange jumped off the roof. Seriously what's the point of doing that if Bernkatsel didn't bring her back in time at that very moment, the dramatic effect is ruined now.

handsomeboy2012 posted...

but she still has her mother

... Does she?
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...Doesn't she? Rosa is Maria's mother right? She is able to hang out and be nice to her daughter sometimes. Eva is not Ange's mom and actively abuses her. I haven't seen anything yet that implies otherwise

I just think it's perhaps a bit naive to point to Maria and say 'at least you have your mother who hates you and beats you up'.
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I don't think Rosa is a particularly good mother, but she's not on that level. If forced to have a choice anyone would have picked to be in Maria's shoes over Ange's.

Couple of possibilities regarding the incident in ep3.
Magic version: Witches kill almost everyone, Eva shoots Battler and Jessica gets eaten.
Outsider version: Eva goes to the hidden mansion while everyone gets killed in an 'accident'.

Let's say witches are not part of this. Eva never knew about the location of the mansion, so it's doubtful whether she went there, but I'll assume that the police found here there later and it's the truth. I also think she is not the one who killed George - she needs a successor after all - or Hideoyoshi, unless it's on accident, not sure about the others. Really, the only information that is true is the red text, and that mystery was left hanging like those that came before.

Episodes 5-8 are called answer arcs... so... am I going to get answers to them soon?

Gah, I wish they put the red text put in the tips section to help with this. The character autopsies aren't too useful.

As if it isn't enough to have the 1986 characters and magical characters, there is going to be a whole new story with its own characters in 1998.

Ange is getting kidnapped in broad daylight by her aunt and gets saved by a mercenary that looks like some punk. These rich people all have their own little private armies. We Hollywood now boys.

Kyrie's sister has a torture chamber for the purpose of 'serving tea'? What the hell is wrong with these people? And some men in black are running around blatantly skirting the law. In a different way, this is almost as unrealistic as all the magic

The 1998 part is pretty fresh. Just very unlike the rest of the game. I wouldn't be so quick to trust Okonogi, there a chance it is another one of those North Wind and Sun strategies...

And then Bern and another Ange are somewhere watching this unfold. Think I should interpret this as a possible timeline where Ange didn't go with Bern and survived the fall. It's similar to Battler and Beatrice watching Rokkenjima, but it's not limited to that particular two days or location. This Ange will help Battler with the game, but how is 1998 Ange going to help?

Isn't the message bottle something from episode 1? This Ange is from episode 3, even if she knows all about the other 'games' there shouldn't be any message bottle in the world she came from? But there is one. And I don't remember of the message says anything about witches.

That's a problem I have with Umineko, sometimes things just happen or are presented in a certain confusing way. Multiple versions of the same person in different 'worlds' Sometimes their thoughts and actions are the same; sometimes they are not. Sometimes they can 'view', 'control' and move into the other world; sometimes they can't. Don't get me started on Evatrice, Eva, and Ange becoming a witch instantly. Does it depend on the person? The time? The location? None of what I saw suggested there is a basis. I'm supposed to just accept it. I don't mind it not being explained, but I don't like the inconsistency.

There's also the use of scientific theories and phrases and buzzwords that makes explanations needlessly complicated. For example, 'there are many possible explanations to something, we need to look at it from different angles to find the truth' becomes a long-winded discussion of Schrdinger's cat and other stuff. I am not very smart, my brain can't keep up with this philosophical discussion and might end up misinterpreting a lot of things. Sometimes I'd rather it gets to the point clearly and concisely.

handsomeboy2012 posted...

Sometimes I'd rather it gets to the point clearly and concisely.

ahaha.wav
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Sceptilesolar posted...

handsomeboy2012 posted...

Sometimes I'd rather it gets to the point clearly and concisely.

ahaha.wav

I googled it. Looks like a Umineko meme? Won't look at the video, anything on youtube is a spoiler minefield.

It's the Beato laugh sound effect.
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Back to the mystery of Nanjo's murder. Who's ready for more playing with words and poking little holes through the red text.

Kinzo was dead long ago, so there are in fact 17 people we know + 1 culprit on the island at the time. Would be a good solution but we already saw Kinzo burnt to ashes in ep3 (unless it's all fake). I hate that it is never known whether Battler witnessed a crime or not, makes it more difficult for me to try solving it myself.

Since ep2, I have seen most of the murders from start to finish. Battler doesn't get the see the full version, sometimes his guesses entirely contradict what I saw, yet Beatrice didn't counter some of these contradictions. I'm betting there is going to be a non-supernatural solution to every one of those games that still satisfies the red truth.

Beatrice starts to use a delay tactic, which should stop Battler brute forcing his way to an good argument. I like how tactics would evolve from game to game; the two days might be repeating, but things are moving along nicely behind the scenes.

'During the episode'? Is this one of those 'it's a video game' and 'meta' stuff? Please don't, it will immediately ruin the game.

Finally there are clearly defined victory conditions for the game (one minute is enough to explain every single murder? Really?). Took you lot 4 episodes.

Now that Battler got a blue truth against the red, and there are rules that both sides can agree on, the last few games feel like a complete joke where everyone makes things up on the spot and does whatever they please.

Evatrice made the arguments, and Battler directs his response at Beatrice, it's as if Evatrice never existed

What is Kyrie playing at
She has never been this active or confrontational about the inheritance

The logic goes like this
Kinzo might be dead -> Krauss is hiding it -> he should prove that Kinzo is still alive, or else give us money now
I am missing something right? Why can't Krauss sign some papers about the caretaker and wait until Kinzo dies a natural death? Then he would still be the next Head right?

'IT'S USELESS' - Crazy eyes Kinzo
Having demented facial expressions and doing evil laughs is a common trait for those who know magic.
And looks like Battler got his catchphrase from his gramps. Well, that's one thing Kinzo is good for.

handsomeboy2012 posted...

The logic goes like this
Kinzo might be dead -> Krauss is hiding it -> he should prove that Kinzo is still alive, or else give us money now
I am missing something right? Why can't Krauss sign some papers about the caretaker and wait until Kinzo dies a natural death? Then he would still be the next Head right?

If Krauss could just wait until Kinzo dies in a normal way, then Kyrie's threat has no weight. This strategy only works if Krauss has reason to think things won't happen like that.
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'The Ushiromiya name is not the property of the witch'... hmm. I've noticed before that Ronove, the Ass Sisters and the bunny girls all have the one winged eagle on their clothes. However, they are not directly associated with the family at all, the only link being Beatrice. There might be some other meaning to the eagle.

Kinzo is going to leave the study! (btw why did he let Krauss in there in the first place) I have almost never seen him talk to his kids before. It's going to be rowdy.