Board 8 > Why is ok to defend transgender but not ok to defend transrace?

(+) Yeah! (+)

pxlated posted...

I mean if this was something you actually cared about, there are all sorts of articles and videos discussing and debating why these things are not the same and one is generally seen as illegitimate that are easily accesible via Google. But you don't actually care about the nuance of this subject, you just want to make a divisive topic and to sound smart and profound.

I love the "refer to google if you want to learn something" argument.

It might be the most intellectually devoid thing someone could ever post. "Yo instead of discussing this with people you could just use a search engine to find the REAL answer"
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SantaRPidgey posted...

I love the "refer to google if you want to learn something" argument.

It might be the most intellectually devoid thing someone could ever post. "Yo instead of discussing this with people you could just use a search engine to find the REAL answer"

why do any work yourself when you could demand the labor of others for free?
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I mean I don't know why "illegitimacy" matters so much to begin with myself. Someone wants to change their race, who cares, let em have at it I say.

Like they don't have to be literally the same kinda thing for the reaction to be the same. Let people do what they want, and respect their desire to put their body through hell to look black or whatever if they really want to do that.

Whether they're similar biologically is an interesting talking point to me and one I'm skeptical current studies have really touched on adequately, but ultimately irrelevant to how I feel on the topic.
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And i dont know why im even bothering to say this but any discussion about this topic needs to come from a perspective that sex and gender are two separate things, otherwise youre just going to make a bunch of pointless arguments
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SantaRPidgey posted...

pxlated posted...

I mean if this was something you actually cared about, there are all sorts of articles and videos discussing and debating why these things are not the same and one is generally seen as illegitimate that are easily accesible via Google. But you don't actually care about the nuance of this subject, you just want to make a divisive topic and to sound smart and profound.

I love the "refer to google if you want to learn something" argument.

It might be the most intellectually devoid thing someone could ever post. "Yo instead of discussing this with people you could just use a search engine to find the REAL answer"

Why should i put in effort when the topic creator clearly isnt?
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SantaRPidgey posted...

So for all the people who are at a biology standpoint, you guys are all saying you wouldn't defend trans rights if there wasn't biology supporting it?

That's really the big thing to me. This kinda viewpoint from someone who is heavy into supporting trans rights seems really strange to me-- like trying to treat one condition of identity as "more legitimate" than the others seems more like the mindset of someone who would be the type to try to dismiss gender identity as a legitimate thing to begin with.

And it's almost like a double standard, which I expect from some, but it seems to be the majority which is like, huh? I always thought the LGBT movement was all about acceptance over everything else-- but then this thing? Nah, draw the line here, too darn weird to accept. Not enough established genetic evidence yet.

Just kinda wacky.
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I will give my actual thoughts on this, though, despite knowing better. I will preface this with the fact that i am a white trans woman. Also, transracial actually refers to an adoption of children from another race than the adopters, but for the purposes of this discussion i will use the term to mean "identifying and living as a race other than the one you were born"

From what i have read and watched, from many different people of different backgrounds and ideologies, there is no consensus and it will likely be many years before there is one. I see a lot of flawed arguments though, many from cis people that fail to acknowledge the difference between sex and gender and as a result i tend to discredit those.

From many trans people of color, one big argument against the validity of transrace is that race is something passed down from parent to child. Gender is not. Sex and race are both bioligical, yes, but sex is not passed directly from your parents. And beyond that, sex is not gender. Both race and gender are social constructs. But the traits that define these socially constructed races are passed down directly through your genetics, where neither sex nor gender are.
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Lopen its pretty clear you know very little about both lgbt+ community and the actual discourse around this topic.

The lgbt+ community is full of double standards and hatred/unacceptable towards members of its own community
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is this one of those "if you're okay with guys doing guys why aren't you okay with guys doing ducks" questions
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Well, I don't particularly care about the community itself as much as the ideal behind it. If you wanna burn it down for being full of double standards be my guest, but I would think in an ideal world whether a racial identity problem is backed by biology or not would be of little concern to people supporting the ideal.

Seems like trying to determine whether transrace is "valid" should theoretically be of little concern if you're following the ideals correctly.
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or to phrase it as KB would

"why is it okay to defend gays but not ok to defend bestiality?"
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Personally, as a white person, i dont feel like its my place to judge if it is or isnt cool for someone of white heritage to present themselves as and claim to be a minority race. A lot of the arguments against it, even from trans people of color, sound a lot like arguments used against transgender people. But the most sound arguments i have heard are on the opposing side.
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pxlated posted...

A lot of the arguments against it, even from trans people of color, sound a lot like arguments used against transgender people.

As long as we can agree on that much I don't have much issue with any viewpoint you've presented so far in the topic.
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Lopen i dont think you understand a thing about race, sexuality or gender issues.
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You can say that but you agreed with me on the main point I'm making so I don't particularly care if you wanna tear me down for the rest. Got what I wanted.
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...wew
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Youre pretty wildly missing my point if that's your take on everything i said
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Probably the most striking thing about this topic is that no one pointed out how Iris West used to identify as a white woman and now identifies as a black woman... AND NO ONE HAS EVER CRITICIZED IT. America has been supporting transracial values for years.
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pxlated posted...

From many trans people of color, one big argument against the validity of transrace is that race is something passed down from parent to child. Gender is not. Sex and race are both bioligical, yes, but sex is not passed directly from your parents. And beyond that, sex is not gender. Both race and gender are social constructs. But the traits that define these socially constructed races are passed down directly through from your parents genetics, where neither sex nor gender are.

see but this is just a line in the sand, it doesn't seem to have any claim to legitimacy.

I mean dysphoria is emotionally stressful, and if someone can do something to relieve that emotional stress, we should be like "sure whatever" and let them. Why block a treatment option because "Well the problem is different on a technical level"
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CelesMyUserName posted...

is this one of those "if you're okay with guys doing guys why aren't you okay with guys doing ducks" questions

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXPcBI4CJc8

(it's because ducks can't consent, that has a clear answer)
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it's telling that the only examples of transrace i know of are from people of white descent. Living as another race is a priveledge most people of color dont have
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My take is that I agree with enough of what you said that I'm not terribly off base, but you want to feel superior on this topic so you wanna tear me down. Which, uh, whatever, have fun with that. Don't particularly care.
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Also, the Rock was Samoan for years before he became white, and now he's black.
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SantaRPidgey posted...

CelesMyUserName posted...

is this one of those "if you're okay with guys doing guys why aren't you okay with guys doing ducks" questions

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXPcBI4CJc8

(it's because ducks can't consent, that has a clear answer)

what if you just wander around in the nude and wait for a horny horse to hang his huge hose in your hiney
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CelesMyUserName posted...

what if you just wander around in the nude and wait for a horny horse to hang his huge hose in your hiney

I mean it's fine with me!

I probably won't march for those people tho
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I identify racially as an 1800s Ohio river steamboat and sexually as trans in that my parts have been repurposed into a train.
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santa I realized I can't see you argue on b8 anymore without thinking of that long drunk debate you had when I stayed over
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Awesome.
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I identify myself as a Pokemon, the only of my kind in this universe
One day I will pass through a Ultra Wormhole and join my fellow Pokemon

Who is to say I am not one? Pokemon can look very different in each universe!
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there's only one correct type of trans
trans humans

officer i only did it with the duck cuz he consented with his galaxy brain

Worth pointing out that the specific dude that inspired this particular discussion (the one claiming to be Filipino) gets numerous details about Filipino culture completely wrong in his interviews
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Why stop there Kyle. What about Trans-species?

Edit: Nevermind. I should have kept on reading as it looks like someone may have already brought this into the discussion. (I'll finish reading the topic later though)
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because gender doesn't depend on who the parents are

Dont give Elizabeth Warren any ideas
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CelesMyUserName posted...

or to phrase it as KB would

"why is it okay to defend gays but not ok to defend bestiality?"

Wow. Did you really just compare an embattled minority to beastiality?
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tbh, comparing transgender to transrace is a more interesting question than most people are giving it credit for. mostly because it's being asked in a garbage troll topic that adds nothing to the discussion itself, but there you go.

i think lopen and pxl cover most of what i have to say
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What exactly is the point of this topic?

Newborns can't be transgender anyway.

People can afford money to become transgender yet they can't use that money for something else.

I'm going back to Pokemon videos. kbye.

CherryCokes posted...

Okay, so, take this picture.

He is very clearly not white. His skin is black. Identifying as white is dumb here because he just isn't, and it doesn't really mean anything. Does that mean he's not the best with dealing with spices? Does that mean he no longer likes rap music as a black man and instead is going to listen to white people music? Does that mean he's going to oppress minorities? Is this the "white" of today or the "white" of the 1850s? Like, what exactly does he even mean by "I'm white now"?

See, trying to identify as a different race in that sense becomes stereotypical and borderline offensive. If you are identifying as a different "race" other than what race you were born for any reason other than you don't like the color of your skin, it's probably for a slightly offensive reason. He is saying "I'm going to act white" more than he's really saying "I'm white now". It's based on social construct and stereotype. And, even if it was because you wanted to be a different color, that wouldn't really change your heritage, which is another part of race.

That's why I don't think there's any real legitimacy to transracial. I believe transgender has something much more valid you can point to in order to explain it, and I would think it has something to do with biology, but to be honest, I don't know for sure. Either way, it still makes way more sense to me than transracial.
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Solioxrz362 posted...

His skin is black.

no it's not.
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Because race is a social construct created to keep the middle class distracted from the overwhelming power of the wealthy.
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SantaRPidgey posted...

It might be the most intellectually devoid thing someone could ever post. "Yo instead of discussing this with people you could just use a search engine to find the REAL answer"

It's not a discussion if the person starting it knows absolutely nothing about the issue and is also closed to any new info because they believe they know everything already

No one is saying to master a subject before making a topic about it, but at least TRY to understand the absolute 2+2=4 basics so people know you are actually capable of having a discussion on the subject
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yeah, not sure what santa is going on about. i'm not trying to be a dick when i say "google it." when i use some obscure inside baseball media studies term and someone asks me to clarify it, google will probably legitimately give you a better answer than i will.
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I think I got it. The globalist puppets believe there are at least 32156134512 genders, but only one race, "the human race."
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Vlado posted...

there are at least 32156134512 genders

lmao do you not understand the concept of infinity
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Solioxrz362 posted...

See, trying to identify as a different race in that sense becomes stereotypical and borderline offensive. If you are identifying as a different "race" other than what race you were born for any reason other than you don't like the color of your skin, it's probably for a slightly offensive reason. He is saying "I'm going to act white" more than he's really saying "I'm white now". It's based on social construct and stereotype.

Just because it's based on social construct doesn't mean it's a bad thing, or an offensive thing.

I've never actually heard of "transrace" as a legit thing, but I think it's plausible. Imagine a white kid adopted by Korean parents living in Korea (you can substitute any races/nationalities you prefer). The kid grows up believing, these are my people, this is my culture, my skin color does not reflect who I really am inside. He really is Korean in all senses but biology, and if he wants to be acknowledged as Korean then I don't see the problem.

So, yeah, it is rooted in social constructs (everyone can choose how they want to act, and it shouldn't be constrained by race), but I also prefer not to overthink things. If he says "Please, think of me as Korean" then I'm willing to roll with it, same as I would for a transgender person.
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Official predix: Within five years, all of these "transrace is ridiculous and not a real thing" people will be calling anyone who doesn't support transrace an irredeemable bigot.
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hott predix: nope
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Solioxrz362 posted...

CherryCokes posted...

Okay, so, take this picture.

He is very clearly not white. His skin is black. Identifying as white is dumb here because he just isn't, and it doesn't really mean anything. Does that mean he's not the best with dealing with spices? Does that mean he no longer likes rap music as a black man and instead is going to listen to white people music? Does that mean he's going to oppress minorities? Is this the "white" of today or the "white" of the 1850s? Like, what exactly does he even mean by "I'm white now"?

See, trying to identify as a different race in that sense becomes stereotypical and borderline offensive. If you are identifying as a different "race" other than what race you were born for any reason other than you don't like the color of your skin, it's probably for a slightly offensive reason. He is saying "I'm going to act white" more than he's really saying "I'm white now". It's based on social construct and stereotype. And, even if it was because you wanted to be a different color, that wouldn't really change your heritage, which is another part of race.

That's why I don't think there's any real legitimacy to transracial. I believe transgender has something much more valid you can point to in order to explain it, and I would think it has something to do with biology, but to be honest, I don't know for sure. Either way, it still makes way more sense to me than transracial.

Pretty much my thoughts. You can identify with the values, history, etc of another culture more than you do with your own heritage, but attributing that difference to race rather than culture seems a poor way of looking at it, especially as many cultures can fall under one "race".
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not within five years, but in fifty, it's possible
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