Board 8 > Hearthstone Discussion Topic: Truth is Found in Death

(+) Yeah! (+)

Two games in a row as Druid I was 5 mana ahead, cast UI, and still lost. My draws are literally that bad in this game, and my opponents are literally tutoring every turn for the exact card they need. Anyone who thinks skill matters in Hearthstone is an idiot.

So what you're saying is that Ultimate Infestation doesn't automatically win games?
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Hey, looks like Unlicensed Apothecary no longer kills you on evolves or DK resummons. I wonder if it's good enough to run in my Warlock deck now.
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Camden posted...

Hey, looks like Unlicensed Apothecary no longer kills you on evolves or DK resummons. I wonder if it's good enough to run in my Warlock deck now.

Lol damn that happening was one of the funniest things
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Never mind, it still smacks you down with Warlock DK. It's just evolve that doesn't kill you now.
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That makes more sense since the Evolve cards are transforming, not returning to the game
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Actually, theres going to be an update that sounds like it'll fix that too!

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/hearthstone/topic/20759378548#1

It took a while but it's good to see them address these unintuitive and inconsistent rules interactions.
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yeah DK Gul'Dan summons all demons that died in the game. similar to playing N'Zoth with apothecary on board.

DK Thrall was definitely a glitch because of the way evolves work. no minions are being summoned, they're being transformed. but the way it's been coded up until now IIRC is that the minions on the board are removed and then it summons new minions at random with +1 cost. so obviously this was triggering the apothecary despite not actually being a summon, because the game read the code as a summon effect.
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https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/75yds0/hearthside_chat_with_josh_durica_game_mechanics/doa7q09/

Unlicensed Apothecary will still trigger off Krul and Bloodreaver Guldans Battlecries. The amount of times Apothecary triggers depends on what order the demons are summoned in. This is because these Battlecries actually summon each minion one by one. Apothecary will trigger for each demon that is summoned after it, but not for any demon that was summoned before it. For Krul the demons will be summoned from your hand in left-to-right order. For Bloodreaver Guldan the demons will be summoned in the order they died.
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Huh, that's still weird. Definitely seemed like it was all at once.
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that's kinda cool. it means you can play apothecary last and then he won't trigger when you DK. bet you could confuse a lot of opponents with that one.

unfortunately the main good thing about the apothecary is his high stats for low mana cost. so normally you'd want to play him early on!
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I wonder if that also means you can't avoid damage with Mal'ganis if Apothecary dies before it.
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There has never been a game where skill is less relevant than Hearthstone. DK Guldan was one of my first 10 cards every time I played Zoo. When playing control, he is bottom 5 95% of the time. I'm also routinely out-drawn, counterpicked, and out-RNG'd.

This game has overtaken Warcraft 3 as the worst game ever made for me. There is no excuse to design a game where player skill is literally irrelevant.

You can be as salty as you want, but you can never claim something is the worst game ever made when Snes Pit Fighter exists.
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Pavel, Surrender, Tom60229 and JasonZhou getting at least two packs for their pickers.
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Bought the Welcome Bundle in a small celebration for getting a job.

Opened up a Tirion for the guaranteed class legendary which wasn't bad, but the rest of the packs were just dust.
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UltimaterializerX posted...

azuarc posted...

So what you're saying is that Ultimate Infestation doesn't automatically win games?

Never has. The complaints about that card are so fucking dumb.

What. It completely matters. UI is why druids can ramp like 3 of 5 turns until UI because it gives them board presence, armor, and probably most importantly all the cards they used back. UI is a card that probably should have been printed after jade rotated out.
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What makes it so strong is Druid has Blossom/Keeper in addition to Nourish/Wild Growth so it's easy to get to 10. Then if you have Kun in addition you get another 7/7 too

Is it gonna help against a Wide or Tall Board? Probably not. But you have Spreading Plague and Swipe for Wide boards and larger and larger Jades for tall boadd
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yeah UI in a vacuum is not really a problem. it's a consistently good Yogg (card draw, damage, armor gain, board presence) that will never be a great Yogg (0% chance to wipe your opponents entire board or summon a secret tree) or a terrible Yogg (0% chance to Pyroblast yourself in the face)

the problem is Druid having so many specifically good cards that support the use of UI so well, it was being played around turn 8 on average. with no downside. not sure if this has really changed or not but it kinda seems like it's not as bad as it was before.
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It was more 5, with innervate

It's played a little later but probably around 7 or 8
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I mean it could be played on turn 5 but it was definitely not played on turn 5 on average
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Well I guess that's just the optimal play

It's also happened to me several times so >_>
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Camden posted...

Pavel, Surrender, Tom60229 and JasonZhou getting at least two packs for their pickers.

for the record in the future could you not post stuff like this

I didn't get around to watching some of these series until after I saw your post, and one in particular was pretty close. it was kind of lame that I already knew who the winner would be.
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Is it ok if he posts it with context beforehand as to what it was

I only saw Pavel vs Baize, pretty good series
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I mean spoiler tags would be fine
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Played against Hunter who got two Huffers in a row to win a game he had lost.

Then played against a quest mage who randomly generated a win with yogg after I got his antonidas with dirty rat. Guldan was of course bottom 5 in both games.

Skill is irrelevant in Hearthstone. The game is specifically designed to remove player skill from deciding who wins or loses, which is why this is the worst video game ever made. Doesn't matter how good or bad you are. RNG decides all wins and losses.

okay i'm not insane for thinking this is going to be a bonkers arena deck right?!?



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Just lost a game because a priest used a devour mind from a lyra to get both mind blast AND holy smite.
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does this mean people like pavel are just the luckiest people in the world?
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but I mean he's consistently won top tournaments

you're argument is that it's through sheer luck alone
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you are argument

i could edit it, but fuck it i wear the shame
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Both colors have advanced and picked up a second pack.
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to claim that HS is a game without skill is just flat out ridiculous

the most recent world champion has gone on to dominate the entire competitive field over the last entire year. is this seriously a coincidence? nobody can be dumb enough to believe that.
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wait you mean people who practice at something get better at it

and you're calling this something other than skill

I just

honestly I have no words
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having a 65% winrate over an entire year at the competitive level when almost all other players struggle to even approach 60% is not a hot streak you uncultured dilettante

I get that you enjoy trolling this topic or whatever but I mean I've just never understood the form of trolling where someone goes out of their way to make themself look like the stupidest human being on the planet.
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Tom60229 vs Purple
Surrender vs Empanizado
Jasonzhou vs Oldboy
Pavel vs Orange

There's your final, two pack minimum quarterfinals.
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MariaTaylor posted...

having a 65% winrate over an entire year at the competitive level when almost all other players struggle to even approach 60% is not a hot streak you uncultured dilettante

I get that you enjoy trolling this topic or whatever but I mean I've just never understood the form of trolling where someone goes out of their way to make themself look like the stupidest human being on the planet.

Well, there's also the fact that he spent a thousand dollars on this game, paid 60 bucks to have someone who actually had the skill to get to legend get it for him, and continues to play it despite the fact that he calls it the worst game ever

So I don't know
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Jesus Christ, I use the ignore feature for the first time ever like a week ago and it's pointless as A. Apparently I didn't get all the alts, B. People still quote the shit anyway and C. People argue with him so I still have don't escape the shit.

VeryInsane posted...

paid 60 bucks to have someone who actually had the skill to get to legend get it for him

But that doesn't indicate skill, it just takes free time!

https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/6u2sjg/here_is_the_full_list_of_synergy_picks_in_the/

MariaTaylor posted...

having a 65% winrate over an entire year at the competitive level when almost all other players struggle to even approach 60% is not a hot streak you uncultured dilettante

I get that you enjoy trolling this topic or whatever but I mean I've just never understood the form of trolling where someone goes out of their way to make themself look like the stupidest human being on the planet.

You're actually proving my point. Pros in card games without the RNG handicap usually have win rates much higher than 65%. In Hearthstone, you're crippled by the no-skill-required RNG trash, and the entire reason I posted that Dirty Rat video is the title. Argue all you want, but "skill" in quotes is a well-known joke in the community. The RNG was on 8% of cards to start, and now it's more than 25%.

So yeah most people who play this actually agree with my position that RNG is ruining the game and needa to be drastically toned down. Hearthstone's very DNA removes player skill, which is why it's garbage. No game has ever required leas skill to be good than this one.

Seginustemple posted...

VeryInsane posted...

paid 60 bucks to have someone who actually had the skill to get to legend get it for him

But that doesn't indicate skill, it just takes free time!

https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/6u2sjg/here_is_the_full_list_of_synergy_picks_in_the/

I'm not technically wrong! :D

UltiXX posted...

Pros in card games without the RNG handicap usually have win rates much higher than 65%.

Against other top players? On a per-game basis or per-match? And are you basing this on tournament play only? -- because physical card games don't have an equivalent to ladder.

Since you seem adamant on making this claim about skilllessness, can you support it by showing us how much better pros elsewhere are? You're the only one here consistently making your claim, and you make it often enough to represent well over half the posts in each Hearthstone thread over the last several months, so either you're deranged, you're a hell of a determined troll, or somehow you happen to be the only person on this board who actually knows what you're talking about. I don't actually believe it's the latter.
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ShatteredElysium posted...

Jesus Christ, I use the ignore feature for the first time ever like a week ago and it's pointless as A. Apparently I didn't get all the alts, B. People still quote the shit anyway and C. People argue with him so I still have don't escape the shit.

get over it. you have the right to ignore someone, but there's absolutely no expectation that every other person on the board needs to participate in your decision just so that you can pretend that person doesn't exist.

UltiXX posted...

You're actually proving my point. Pros in card games without the RNG handicap usually have win rates much higher than 65%. In Hearthstone, you're crippled by the no-skill-required RNG trash, and the entire reason I posted that Dirty Rat video is the title. Argue all you want, but "skill" in quotes is a well-known joke in the community. The RNG was on 8% of cards to start, and now it's more than 25%.

uh, no?

your point is that there is NO skill in hearthstone. I just proved that there is SOME skill in hearthstone.

some =/= none

if you're claiming that hearthstone requires LESS skill than other games that is a completely different conversation. don't try and move the goalposts now. you have repeatedly claimed that there is NO skill in hearthstone. it's obvious that there is skill in hearthstone. you're just wrong. you will always be wrong. I'm not even arguing against you -- you're arguing against statistics. I'm just the one telling you how stupid it is do to that.
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