Board 8 > Game of Thrones Season 7 - The lone wolf dies... (SPOILERS)

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Who even controls the kingdom the Baratheons used to control? It can't be Cersei since she calls herself a Lannister.

Cersei, the Baratheons are done.
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Clearly, as former hand of Stannis the Mannis, Davos is the one true heir to the stormlands.
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With Stannis and Renly dead, all of the baratheon (actually Lannister) children dead... probably one of Robert's bastards? Gendry, King in the East!
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Dany also losing in the battle of Casterly Rock would be insane. It would make the Unsullied even bigger jobbers after their awfulness against the Sons of the Harpy. I think that'll be a win, the only problem will be that they won't be able to/won't want to hold it, because I can imagine the Tarly's etc being sent to retake the Rock.

Also, Rhaegal will be killed by the ballista, Viserion will be the Wight Dragon and Drogon will die fighting the Others + mainland. Dany will rule but won't really have an army to hold the realm.
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Wight Dragon?!
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the wight dragon by definition is the one that falls in battle

there will be no siege of king's landing with reach forces fighting one another

casterly rock definitely falls with tyrion as an attacker and no notable defenders (ed sheeran?) - grey worm seems a likely casualty though
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So can the Wight King turn anyone that is deceased? Like can he walk past a graveyard and bring them all up?
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Suprak the Stud posted...

They need to do something to weaken Dany because right now she's boring and OP, even with Dorne maybe out of the picture.

I think she is pretty balanced now. She has a ton of power but she's a bad ruler. She has a lot of alliances and advisors, but still makes bad decisions and gets them killed. Cersei has no power but rules the best. Jon has power and rules well but he only cares about white walkers. It's a pretty good triangle.
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Curious why you think Cersei is a good ruler, foolmo. I love her to pieces but she's nuts.
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Obellisk posted...

So can the Wight King turn anyone that is deceased? Like can he walk past a graveyard and bring them all up?

That's the idea, yes. You not only die facing his army, you become part of his army.
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Jeff Zero posted...

Curious why you think Cersei is a good ruler, foolmo. I love her to pieces but she's nuts.

Literally anyone (who is stronger than Jaime) could walk into that room and take over instantly, but they don't because she projects an illusion of power.

Like there's no reason Euron would want to work with her over his original plan of working with Dany. But he did it.
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foolm0r0n posted...

Jeff Zero posted...

Curious why you think Cersei is a good ruler, foolmo. I love her to pieces but she's nuts.

Literally anyone (who is stronger than Jaime) could walk into that room and take over instantly, but they don't because she projects an illusion of power.

Like there's no reason Euron would want to work with her over his original plan of working with Dany. But he did it.

For some reason this reminded me of realo. Too bad we don't get any realopinions on this show anymore.
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junk_funk posted...

Obellisk posted...

So can the Wight King turn anyone that is deceased? Like can he walk past a graveyard and bring them all up?

That's the idea, yes. You not only die facing his army, you become part of his army.

I'm just picturing Dany and cersei going to war and the wight king showing up and just turning all the dead into wights and destroying everyone.

I think the shiw should end with everyone dead and the dead winning the game.

And little finger smirking in the corner.
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foolm0r0n posted...

Suprak the Stud posted...

They need to do something to weaken Dany because right now she's boring and OP, even with Dorne maybe out of the picture.

I think she is pretty balanced now. She has a ton of power but she's a bad ruler. She has a lot of alliances and advisors, but still makes bad decisions and gets them killed. Cersei has no power but rules the best. Jon has power and rules well but he only cares about white walkers. It's a pretty good triangle.

Oh, she absolutely has no idea what she's doing when it comes to ruling. The last two seasons demonstrated that in spades.

In terms of battle though, she had (or could have had):
1) The supposed toughest army in the entire world (although the unsullied have been shown to be mostly jobbers, true, this is what they were billed as)
2) Literally all the dothraki
3) Two kingdoms of Westeros, one of which happened to be the one that suffered the lightest casualties of war thus far
4) Three damn dragons, the only defense to which they currently seem to have is "well, like a crossbow but a bigger one"

Jon has what is left of the northern houses (which is like six grown men, a bunch of old guys, and an army of children) and the Vale. And he doesn't even really want to fight anyone besides the ice zombies that are coming to murder everyone.

Cersei has Jaime, the remnants of the Lannister army (which are spread very thin trying to keep things together and have even resorted to recruiting Ed Sheeran), half of the iron born (Euron is a badass, true, but they are not a significant land power and also are almost certainly plotting against her), and whoever else she can cobble up from the remnant of the armies she defeated (many of which hate her and want her dead).
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Obellisk posted...

junk_funk posted...

Obellisk posted...

So can the Wight King turn anyone that is deceased? Like can he walk past a graveyard and bring them all up?

That's the idea, yes. You not only die facing his army, you become part of his army.

I'm just picturing Dany and cersei going to war and the wight king showing up and just turning all the dead into wights and destroying everyone.

I think the shiw should end with everyone dead and the dead winning the game.

And little finger smirking in the corner.

Sounds about right.
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Heck no.
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I so want the giant crossbow to just spectacularly fail. Like that ex-wife missile in Iron Man 2 that just bounces off Whiplash.
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Obellisk posted...

I think the shiw should end with everyone dead and the dead winning the game.

And little finger smirking in the corner.

And then it leads into the spinoff sitcom, Wight Is Right, featuring zombie Littlefinger as the Urkel-style character
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The crossbow was so anti climactic, they must have been trolling the audience. We've had massive green firebombs blowing up entire cities and fleets, and then they show this slightly larger arrow making a small hole in some bone.
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I mean, a similar device killed a dragon before so!
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Has it ever killed a non-talking dragon though? I think current research indicates it only works on the talking variety of dragons.
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Should they start by trying to encase the dragons in gold?
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Ah man... When Euron came in in those big ships.. Cool and sad, cersi gets revenge on sand snakes, euron has a gift. I didn't like those girls getting killed, they are hot.

I hope sansa and Jon snow don't tussle.. N Arya coming home yay!
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I really did like how Arya's demeanor completely changed when she learned she still had family and a home she could return to. To find out she had something more important than revenge. Super good stuff.
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Isn't the backstory of Dorne that it killed a dragon with a big ballista? So isn't this just the same thing?
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Huh.

That's actually correct! I haven't read anything than the main books (not sure if that was covered in there) so I've never looked at The World of Ice & Fire or any of those sorts of compendium books.
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StifledSilence posted...

Am I the only person on B8 that likes the Sand Snakes? I enjoyed their interactions with Bronn and Jaime and loved their feisty attitudes. I was sad to see them get completely destroyed.

Missandei/Grey Worm are adorable. I was happy for them.

Euron is off the fucking charts and I hope he amps up the crazy even more.

Reek is the worst.

Yes everything you said... Reek, good Ole reek,, I will say what Ramsey did to him was intense, it was hard to watch and it felt real.. That kid was mindfucked some of the worse I ever seen
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mnkboy907 posted...

I really did like how Arya's demeanor completely changed when she learned she still had family and a home she could return to. To find out she had something more important than revenge. Super good stuff.

Yeah I noticed that too. It was like something lifted in her. She played it really well.
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'What happened to you, Arry?'
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The World of Ice and Fire is super-great. I'd read it again but it'll just bum me out until at least Book 6 is out.
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When was it said that fire can kill White Walkers before this episode?
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Not white walkers, wights. Not the same thing.

Might be wrong though. Not an expert
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XIII_rocks posted...

Not white walkers, wights. Not the same thing.

Might be wrong though. Not an expert

Correct
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Nanis23 posted...

When was it said that fire can kill White Walkers before this episode?

John killed one with fire when he first got to the wall. 5 seasons ago
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it's actually also said this episode that dragonglass can kill wights, but i don't remember proof of that at all.

in fairness we've never seen fire used against a white walker (lol)

based on the preview we're getting casterly rock next week, hype!
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We did see a white walker walk through fire...and it didn't harm him
And wighs can die like any zombie so...
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Nanis23 posted...

We did see a white walker walk through fire...and it didn't harm him
And wighs can die like any zombie so...

I missed the WW going through fire.

Most zombies die if you behead them or destroy their brains. I seem to remember a severed arm of a wight attacking Jon/the Old Bear - am I wrong?
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On mobile so cant link but just google image "white walker fire"
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the scene where dany finally confronts varys was long overdue, but it was really well done
feels like conleth hill's performance was just great there
same with peter dinklage actually
he didn't have many lines but he really expressed the feeling of tension
since he would actually care if something bad happened to varys
the line at the later council where he remarks on ellaria poisoning myrcella was a "feel good" moment
but like most of the TV "feel good" moments just makes no god damn sense
why would anyone, literally anyone, want to work with ellaria
dany most of all is not known for siding with child poisoners
and the fact that this seems to be common knowledge and everyone is upset about it makes their alliance weird and nonsensical

the northern stuff didn't feel as good this week
it was all just stuff that needed to happen so jon and dany can meet next week
I had actually forgotten about littlefinger giving sansa to the boltons because it's so stupid and doesn't match the books at all
so I guess the northerners disliking him does make a bit more sense
but the scene between him and jon in the crypts still felt stupid to me
more TV "feel good" stuff
I guess we're supposed to root for jon being an overprotective brother
and once again LF is characterized as a villain because he is attracted to sansa
a quality he shares with literally every male character on the show

it's just the pervasive problem of the POV/Hero-centric focus that the show has
instead of all the characters being morally gray
there's just specific characters that we are signaled that we are supposed to root for
I dunno, I'm probably just overthinking this specific plot thread because it's so different from the books
but like Jon with this whole "don't you dare talk to my sister or I'll kill you" attitude could totally be taken as him being a villain
like this is an exact line that a bully would use
in an 80's sitcom
while beating up the protagonist
but in here, they completely turn it around
and because Jon is saying it and he's the handsome hero, it's all cool

the scene with jaime going to talk to lord tarly was pretty interesting
actually cersei holding court overall
the show continues in the tradition of making her way more competent in the books
I thought it was clever that she brought everyone together and tried to unite them by using all of the rumors about how terrible dany was
what's really funny is that I saw people on various forums making "fake news" and "alternative facts" jokes
but I'm pretty sure everything she said was literally true
like dany actually did crucify all of those masters
that really happened
I'm glad we're just forgetting it though
the dothraki really do ride around enslaving and raping women
this was the entire reason for the conflict in season 1
I guess the TV audience just has a really short memory

and to be fair there's a decent chance the TV writers actually just play it this way
making it seem like Cersei is resorting to "unfair" rumors
and having everyone on dany's side behave and be good since she is the protagonist
in fact I give odds on this being more likely than the reverse

first arya scene was good, I liked the reunion with hot pie, maisie's acting was good here
second arya scene just felt like too much of a departure from the tone and imagery of the show
like it was just surreal to have all of these wolves come out and arya looking scared
and then this giant monster wolf comes out
stuff like this just does not happen in the show
they have specifically avoided this type of thing for years
so it felt really, really out of place
they barely even show Ghost ever
we haven't even seen Ghost this year

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I liked the sam stuff this week
it actually didn't even really come across as being nearly as gross to me either for whatever reason
although apparently for some people it was
I more just liked him sharing moments talking about jorah's father
it was really, really convenient that someone already cured grayscale
but no one ever bothers to attempt the treatement because it's too dangerous
lol
yeah okay

gray worm and missandei stuff was good, I've liked most of their scenes up to this point
I always find it weird that people complain about it
it's way better than like the tyrion/shae romance
there was some pretty sweet dialogue during this week's scene too
I dunno, I know it's not for everyone but I thought it was good

so for the FINAL BATTLE scene
euron coming out of nowhere and throwing fireballs at the ship was hilarious
I was basically already cracking up when the platform falls down and he's riding on top of it
and it flattens that guy
then he jumps off the ramp and there's conveniently someone right there just waiting to be hit with his axe
I wonder how much they pay that guy to stand near the ramp with his weapon lowered
so that the attacking forces can look cool when they come off the ramp and kill him

asha in the books is seriously a great character, so I find it really difficult to care about anything yara does
there's really just so much wasted potential here
I thought the actress was pretty good too in earlier seasons
it's just an unfortunate downside of having such a large cast and giving everyone only a few minute long scenes at a time
they basically just never utilize her well at all

theon fighting like 5 guys at once is exactly the kind of TV bullshit I would expect out of this show
honestly I didn't even find the action in these scenes to be all that great or well directed
so it felt very, very pointless
aside from the emotional beats
euron killing the sand snakes didn't feel all that important or noteworthy, just another one of those things that needed to happen
but the fight itself wasn't really cool or enjoyable to watch

conversely I thought when he goes up against Yara
it was way more awesome
just the whole reckless assault thing with her being driven back and defending against his attacks
it had a way more brutal and exciting style to it
then the ending
was like the opposite of the TV bullshit I'd expect from this show
really well done with theon's PTSD triggering
especially based on the audio and visual cues around the scene
the way they directed it was awesome
actually I will say overall one of the cool images of the battle was just everything on fire and sparks everywhere
but during this final part I feel like a lot of effort and attention went into it
like Euron's crew mates cutting out the tongues of the people they were capturing
alfie allen is always a really good actor which is why it feels like an absolute waste that they almost never give him any scenes anymore

anyway he really shows off his skills here by transforming into Reek with only visual cues
even his weak ass jump and the way he floats in the water looking all defeated
was great

that part in particular was a lot more true to the themes of the original story
as compared to him turning into a naruto style ninja and fighting five guys at once
or jon snow acting like the bully in an 80's movie but being cheered on because he has nice hair

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dat hair tho.
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Jon killed a wight with fire in season 1
Sam killed a walker with dragon glass protecting his wildling lady.
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MariaTaylor posted...

he didn't have many lines but he really expressed the feeling of tension

You just made me realize that the conference room scene reminded me a ton of a meeting with a client where my coworker is getting railed and I'm trying to support them but it's not working
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i want to respond to literally everything in your two posts there, but i'd run out of quotable blocks

1. re: dany's council - agreed entirely, especially re: ellaria. dany in particular should have a massive issue working with ellaria. but then, she is commanding all those dothraki for the power... ellaria certainly represents power from dorne.

2. i think you're mostly right about jon being a douchebag to littlefinger (to whom he most certainly *does* owe his life) - littlefinger pushed jon over the edge.

for the most part, LF seemed ridiculous, but if you think about it, LF was attempting to play jon the way he plays the game in king's landing. but he was just incredibly tone-deaf. but he has perhaps learned something about jon, and what makes him tick. like, in what world does it make sense to say that he coveted ned's wife? was it really smart of him to tell mr. moody angsty warrior that 'i dig my ex-crush's daughter'? you can see it from LF's perspective, but he misread the room. hopefully he'll learn from this.

one thing i have been bad about giving the show credit for, these last few seasons, is that it's good at reversals of power. dany seemed strong and cersei seemed weak; after just two episodes, dany has been cut down greatly, and cersei has been boosted greatly.

LF looks super-weak right now (he's been shit on for a season and a half now by sansa and jon, with only one brief moment in 6x09 to triumph), so i'm hoping that he's taking these punches and developing a plan. hopes aren't super-high though.

3. this is cersei at her absolute best playing the game. literally never seen her do it better - she's spreading propaganda about dany and her 'foreign armies,' but she's absolutely right about what dany has done, and that's why tyrion insists on using westerosi forces to besiege the capital. she breaks up olenna's hold on the reach, and i love jaime calling back to robert's rebellion to appeal to randyll's ego.

4. mostly agreed on arya. i watched the 1992 version of beauty and the beast very recently, and it was funny how reminiscent that wolf scene was of it. it's a pure fanservice scene, but that doesn't mean it's completely out of place - i liked it more than the tyene's tits scene, for example.

also the hot pie scene was incredible. i particularly liked the callback to 'i knew she was a knight, because she was wearing armor,' and 'i'm like you, arry - i'm a survivor.'

5. sam was 'alright,' as you pointed out the dude has valyrian steel plot armor.

6. i'm as big a hater as any on grey worm/missandei, so yeah, i got nothing on this one

7. i have almost no complaints about that big battle, other than (as you pointed out) theon having superhero combat skills. for yara and euron it makes a ton more sense. wholly agreed with all the positive comments at the end!
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foolm0r0n posted...

You just made me realize that the conference room scene reminded me a ton of a meeting with a client where my coworker is getting railed and I'm trying to support them but it's not working

haha yeah that is a good comparison. I can totally picture that.

SeabassDebeste posted...

LF looks super-weak right now (he's been shit on for a season and a half now by sansa and jon, with only one brief moment in 6x09 to triumph), so i'm hoping that he's taking these punches and developing a plan. hopes aren't super-high though.

if it turns out that way it'd be very satisfying yeah. I guess I'm just being more negative about it because my expectations are pretty low. obviously I'd be happy if they exceeded my expectations and did something worthwhile with LF rather than just killing him off later unceremoniously like it seems will happen.

SeabassDebeste posted...

also the hot pie scene was incredible. i particularly liked the callback to 'i knew she was a knight, because she was wearing armor,' and 'i'm like you, arry - i'm a survivor.'

some other great stuff about that scene. arya's speech and body language at the start of the scene was actually mimicking the hound. she was acting and talking the way the hound talks, because this is who she learned how to harden her heart and act like a cool badass from. almost the moment she is told about what is going on up north her entire demeanor changes and she starts acting more similar to season 1/2 arya again.
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Forgot about her Hound mannerisms

Similarly, the Hound took on some Arya mannerisms
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i feel like they're messing with us at this point by having a scene where arya finds out her family is alive and actually decides to go back (especially after scenes like bran forgoing reuniting with Jon because his mission is more important) and literally the very next scene is jon leaving winterfell

with the awesome relationship jon and arya have (casual fans might not remember Jon being the one who had needle forged for her) they are by far the most anticipated reunion. seeing her and sansa reunite will be fun and all but they hated each other throughout season 1 so it's hard to get too excited
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Littlefinger basically controls the Vale through Sweet Robin, controls Harrenahl, and I think was named Lord Paramount of the Riverlands. He's far from in a weak position.

I think thats the whole point. Arya goes home to see John, just misses him, ends up seeing Sansa who is Warden of the North. She'll tell Arya to stay put but Arya don't listen to no stupid Sansa and you've got inner fighting in the Stark Family.
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If Arya/Sansa reunite I'm pretty sure they'll reconcile. Their past dislike of each other seemed like normal sibling stuff. Given all the things they've both gone through I'm sure they'll be able to put that petty stuff behind them and be glad to see each other.

If they're desperate to get Arya south they could have her chase Jon but it'd feel silly unless something happens to change the equation. Like the North having some reason to believe he's in danger (negotiations with Daenerys go south? ...and word of that somehow gets back? ravens develop ftl travel to make all this seem feasible?)

PerfectChaosZ posted...

Littlefinger basically controls the Vale through Sweet Robin, controls Harrenahl, and I think was named Lord Paramount of the Riverlands. He's far from in a weak position.

IIRC when Arya was cosplaying as Walder Frey she stated he was Lord Paramount of the Riverlands. Not sure if that's true or Frey thinking/assuming he is, but yeah.
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