Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 105: Ossoff wins Handel-y? Or Too Much to Handel?

(+) Yeah! (+)

red13n posted...

Democrats suck at that. They cant stay on message. They'll chase down one story after another and lose message as usual).

not sure if this is that big a deal - trump also sucked at staying on message during the campaign. he literally took both positions on 99% of the issues (exceptions being stuff like the wall).
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red13n posted...

thats nearly 2 years for Dems to completely get off message(Notice how Republicans spent years hammering obamacare being awful into peoples heads. Democrats suck at that. They cant stay on message. They'll chase down one story after another and lose message as usual).

This is so true and what exactly what happens when you become a party that treats its constituents like disparate groups of minorities. As soon as the black caucus thinks they are focusing too much on the poor, they'll switch to something that will appease them... then it's the gays, which upsets the feminists, etc. etc.
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Espeon posted...

The key word is maximum. With a mandate, more people buy in and thus insurers can reasonably lower prices. Without one, there are fewer customers and thus insurers are incentivized to jack up prices as much as possible to cover operating costs (which are going to be higher since they're forced to pay out more claims due to the preexisting conditions).

If you're already not well off, that maximum 16% is fucking rough.

I mean this is a philosophical difference between us, I guess. I think it's perfectly fair, within reason, to have to pay more for insurance if you have a pre-existing condition, since the insurance companies are likely going to be losing money covering you. The price increases generally just cut the company's losses instead of actually making them profitable for your case.
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red13n posted...

LapisLazuli posted...

I guess on the brightside this bill is so horrible that it's going to give a huge boost to 2018 Dems even if it DOESN'T go through.

The Dems have been so incompetent that I don't have faith they will make substantial gains. Especially since this bill is likely to become law sooner rather than later, thats nearly 2 years for Dems to completely get off message(Notice how Republicans spent years hammering obamacare being awful into peoples heads. Democrats suck at that. They cant stay on message. They'll chase down one story after another and lose message as usual).

Actually, as I understand the bill doesn't go into effect until 2021. So it will probably be THE talking point in 2020 if it gets passed.
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

Espeon posted...

The key word is maximum. With a mandate, more people buy in and thus insurers can reasonably lower prices. Without one, there are fewer customers and thus insurers are incentivized to jack up prices as much as possible to cover operating costs (which are going to be higher since they're forced to pay out more claims due to the preexisting conditions).

If you're already not well off, that maximum 16% is fucking rough.

I mean this is a philosophical difference between us, I guess. I think it's perfectly fair, within reason, to have to pay more for insurance if you have a pre-existing condition, since the insurance companies are likely going to be losing money covering you. The price increases generally just cut the company's losses instead of actually making them profitable for your case.

I think the entire point is the country has gotten to the point where access to healthcare isnt viewed as a luxury anymore.

So this whole actuarial argument can be both accurate and viewed as amoral nonsense.
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Eddv posted...

I think the entire point is the country has gotten to the point where access to healthcare isnt viewed as a luxury anymore.

And the access will be there. That's the whole point of the bill.
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

Eddv posted...

I think the entire point is the country has gotten to the point where access to healthcare isnt viewed as a luxury anymore.

And the access will be there. That's the whole point of the bill.

Is it really access if you cant afford to pay?
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Eddv posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

Eddv posted...

I think the entire point is the country has gotten to the point where access to healthcare isnt viewed as a luxury anymore.

And the access will be there. That's the whole point of the bill.

Is it really access if you cant afford to pay?

Yeah, doctors are gonna refuse to see you unless it's a medical emergency in which they are legally required to treat you.
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Yeah. I have ACCESS to Mercedes-Benz dealerships, but I can't AFFORD to buy one.
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I live next to a Ruth's Chris and I could walk in every night if I wanted to
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BTW, Trump admitting there are no tapes, doesn't that mean his tweet about "you better not hope there's any 'tapes'" fit into the Obstruction of Justice claim? It's glorified witness intimidation.
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TheRock1525 posted...

BTW, Trump admitting there are no tapes, doesn't that mean his tweet about "you better not hope there's any 'tapes'" fit into the Obstruction of Justice claim? It's glorified witness intimidation.

But you see it's not actually obstruction of justice because he said "hope". He didn't intimidate him, he just made him think he was intimidating him.
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Rooting for Cruz going all or nothing here.
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Inviso posted...

Yeah. I have ACCESS to Mercedes-Benz dealerships, but I can't AFFORD to buy one.

Don't be a wiener. Access means access to affordable care.
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

Don't be a wiener. Access means access to affordable care.

sounds pretty socialist tbh
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Kenri posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

Don't be a wiener. Access means access to affordable care.

sounds pretty socialist tbh

Sounds completely contrary to what the AHCA and BHCA offer.
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i mean, some people can afford a mercedes-benz.
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Healthcare's not even affordable under Obamacare and that's with the mandate to force costs down. I'm not sure what mechanism Trumpcare is using to lower prices, and last I checked no one else knows either.
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

You just completely contradicted yourself.

Only if you think that wealthy people are the only ones who should have insurance.
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TheRock1525 posted...

BTW, Trump admitting there are no tapes, doesn't that mean his tweet about "you better not hope there's any 'tapes'" fit into the Obstruction of Justice claim? It's glorified witness intimidation.

This is a very dumb post.
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Yeah, it's intimidation whether or nor the tapes existed.
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trump said that he didn't make the tapes.
but if his lawyers did.
or if bannon did.

well he's telling the truth.
he just assumes they have tapes, not that he knows they absolutely have 'em.
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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/878013639613186049

is he just going to keep saying he's going to build the wall without doing it until 2020?
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/878013639613186049

is he just going to keep saying he's going to build the wall without doing it until 2020?

Uh, somewhat more to the point, who the heck provided that ranking? Donald Trump? Because every ranking I see on the subject barely even has Mexico register. Including one published just this month. Which makes sense, seeing as, yknow, the entire rest of the middle east exists.

Not that Mexico pops onto the list before any non-middle eastern country, mind.
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I mean, there are definitely parts of Mexico that are straight up lawless. I dunno if that makes it second, but barely register doesn't make a whole lot of sense either.
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I'm pretty sure there are plenty of countries in Africa that handily beat Mexico in the "lawless" criteria.
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SupremeZero posted...

Mr Lasastryke posted...

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/878013639613186049

is he just going to keep saying he's going to build the wall without doing it until 2020?

Uh, somewhat more to the point, who the heck provided that ranking? Donald Trump? Because every ranking I see on the subject barely even has Mexico register. Including one published just this month. Which makes sense, seeing as, yknow, the entire rest of the middle east exists.

Not that Mexico pops onto the list before any non-middle eastern country, mind.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/05/09/americas/mexico-second-deadliest-conflict-2016/index.html

Im sure the size of Mexico has a lot to do with it, but it's an accurate statement
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If it's not adjusted for population then it's not really accurate in any way.

But that's the great thing about statistics: you can use real stats and just change the way you present them to make it seem like reality is way different than it actually is.
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redrocket_pub posted...

I'm pretty sure there are plenty of countries in Africa that handily beat Mexico in the "lawless" criteria.

South Sudan: 4
Somalia: 6
Central African Republic: 8
Sudan: 9
Congo: 11
Nigeria: 15
Mexico: 22

Quite a few.
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Kenri posted...

If it's not adjusted for population then it's not really accurate in any way.

But that's the great thing about statistics: you can use real stats and just change the way you present them to make it seem like reality is way different than it actually is.

Yeah I see the point. But Mexico is still pretty violent per capita as well.
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honestly he's just appealing to BUILD A WALL again because it's frankly the most "fun" thing he has in and around his base. it's an insult to be used for some, a meme to be played with for others, and a sentiment some feel at least ideologically in support of.
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Wanglicious posted...

honestly he's just appealing to BUILD A WALL again because it's frankly the most "fun" thing he has in and around his base. it's an insult to be used for some, a meme to be played with for others, and a sentiment some feel at least ideologically in support of.

if i were a trump fan i'd be more annoyed than anything by this, though. i guess it's fun if you see it as nothing more than a meme. but when trump had just won i heard several trump fans say stuff like "now that he's won one of the most important things for him to do is build the wall," and 8 months later all we get is trump tweeting "yeah, i'm still totally going to do that thing, guys!"?

maybe his base is totally fine with this, though. it's hard for me to understand their thought process in general.
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though ann coulter said that she's disappointed with trump's lack of wall building so far. so yeah, at least some of his base IS unsatisfied with this.
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

though ann coulter said that she's disappointed with trump's lack of wall building so far. so yeah, at least some of his base IS unsatisfied with this.

To be fair, Ann Coulter's a crazy person even among crazies.
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Ann Coulter made it clear after the election that she wanted Trump to focus exclusively on building the wall/throwing out illegal immigrants. It's been her big issue for a couple of years now.
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I only know Ann counter from boondocks
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"The government wastes too much money!"

"So we should build a wall that will keep out illegal immigrants.. unless they have ladders, ropes, shovels, boats, or temporary visas."
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Dancedreamer posted...

"The government wastes too much money!"

"So we should build a wall that will keep out illegal immigrants.. unless they have ladders, ropes, shovels, boats, or temporary visas."

And we should put solar panels on it because it will help mitigate costs and furthermore oajsdlfk abshogh 84h;kgu.a 79t;oa.ubksj,dmmasd;viawb.skgimbasednlikas
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woodman posted...

Dancedreamer posted...

"The government wastes too much money!"

"So we should build a wall that will keep out illegal immigrants.. unless they have ladders, ropes, shovels, boats, or temporary visas."

And we should put solar panels on it because it will help mitigate costs and furthermore oajsdlfk abshogh 84h;kgu.a 79t;oa.ubksj,dmmasd;viawb.skgimbasednlikas

Can't do that, solar panels kill coal jobs.
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Not_an_Owl posted...

woodman posted...

Dancedreamer posted...

"The government wastes too much money!"

"So we should build a wall that will keep out illegal immigrants.. unless they have ladders, ropes, shovels, boats, or temporary visas."

And we should put solar panels on it because it will help mitigate costs and furthermore oajsdlfk abshogh 84h;kgu.a 79t;oa.ubksj,dmmasd;viawb.skgimbasednlikas

Can't do that, solar panels kill coal jobs.

aslkjgw asndsfioi k4o83 5aldfj fnalksfj sd? Sdljflkasd f, ajsit44 yakdg ae;44y9834oy ;kajsdgn;asdkhgg gsf jsjafjasd gggggggggg7gggggg.
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woodman posted...

Not_an_Owl posted...

woodman posted...

Dancedreamer posted...

"The government wastes too much money!"

"So we should build a wall that will keep out illegal immigrants.. unless they have ladders, ropes, shovels, boats, or temporary visas."

And we should put solar panels on it because it will help mitigate costs and furthermore oajsdlfk abshogh 84h;kgu.a 79t;oa.ubksj,dmmasd;viawb.skgimbasednlikas

Can't do that, solar panels kill coal jobs.

aslkjgw asndsfioi k4o83 5aldfj fnalksfj sd? Sdljflkasd f, ajsit44 yakdg ae;44y9834oy ;kajsdgn;asdkhgg gsf jsjafjasd gggggggggg7gggggg.

I really want to make Microsoft Text-To-Speech say this but this hellOS 10 seems to have removed (or at least hidden) the ability to insert text into a box and have it quote that.
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Fuck Microsoft. Worst company in technology, which is impressive given its competition
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Regaro posted...

Fuck Microsoft. Worst company in technology, which is impressive given its competition

I'm pretty sure Apple is still worse than Microsoft.
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BowserCuffs posted...

Regaro posted...

Fuck Microsoft. Worst company in technology, which is impressive given its competition

I'm pretty sure Apple is still worse than Microsoft.

I'm curious as to how you're judging this. It's obviously not the same as how I'm doing so if you think this, because I consider Apple rather tame on the evil scale (though my priorities are somewhat skewed by my line of work...)
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ORACLE is worse.
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Oh I just realized I didn't explicitly use the word evil in my first post where I meant to

Oops

(Oracle is bad too, but Facebook is the clear #2 here)
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I'm pretty sure Apple drives more of their workers to suicide. Kind of defacto makes them more evil.
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Do they? I don't have the numbers there.

From my perspective though, Microsoft's entire history is one of crowding out the market and using that to dictate closed, anti-consumer standards, making alternatives incredibly difficult for the average person to find and use even where Microsoft's offerings are subpar.

As a developer especially, that makes things hell because it basically means you have to maintain two different versions of the same program - one for Windows and one for everything else (most devs skip the 'everything else' and only support Windows, which makes the problem worse). Mac OS isn't nearly as bad about this.

And this is to say nothing about their relatively recent foray into large-scale data collection and selling. Which disgusts me even more than anything else they do, and also why I hate companies like Facebook and Google (though Google offers some useful services sometimes at least. Facebook is just worthless trash all the way around) so much.
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Apple is definitely more anti-consumer than Microsoft though.

They'll try to get you to buy a new iPhone rather than doing repairs on it - even if the only thing that needs to be "repaired" is removing fuzz from the charging port.

They have strict standards on what they'll let customers do with their devices, with violations risking your stuff turning into an expensive brick.

They even build their towers in such a way that nobody but Apple can actually do maintenance work on them.

Not to mention they charge steep prices for their hardware, too.

Sorry, no, Apple is definitely the greater of the evils here.
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As an iOS developer, I love Apple

As an iPhone 5c owner, I hate Apple
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