Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 105: Ossoff wins Handel-y? Or Too Much to Handel?

(+) Yeah! (+)

aw man

it was just a video of trump driving a golf cart on the green. today.
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Not_an_Owl posted...

The Senate health care bill is out, and it's terrible (but I repeat myself):

http://www.npr.org/2017/06/22/533947844/senate-republicans-reveal-long-awaited-affordable-care-act-repeal-bill

Blatantly screwing over the poor just so rich people can have more money to not spend on the economy.
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Trump: 'I Did Not Make, And Do Not Have' Recordings Of Comey https://n.pr/2tTf5H8

More unsurprising news.
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Not_an_Owl posted...

The Senate health care bill is out, and it's terrible (but I repeat myself):

http://www.npr.org/2017/06/22/533947844/senate-republicans-reveal-long-awaited-affordable-care-act-repeal-bill

Seems like a pretty centrist bill, actually. "Children" can stay on their parents' program till 26 and pre-existing conditions will still be covered.

Interesting to see how this gets spun though.
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https://twitter.com/business/status/877906991439462400

The end of it covers the pre-existing conditions and 26 year old "children" clause
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God, this thing looks fucking perfect (unless you're a literal Marxist).

Dems already lying about it and calling it the most harmful legislation of all time though.
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StealThisSheen posted...

Eddv posted...

Trump: 'I Did Not Make, And Do Not Have' Recordings Of Comey https://n.pr/2tTf5H8

More unsurprising news.

So he's admitting to trying to intimidate him with a lie?

Yeaaaaaap.
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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/877879361130688512

trump literally thinks this is a valid point.
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Their horizon on it is particularly problematic for me, as is their wishy washy ness.

The other issue is that their promises directly to constituents and their actual goals aren't aligned. I'd be taking less issue with this if they had simply said, up front, "This isn't going to actually solve the things we're complaining about regarding the ACA."
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Actually, rereading the initial tweet, it wasn't a lie. He just said Comey better hope there are no tapes.
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/877879361130688512

trump literally thinks this is a valid point.

... More important than it being a "valid point", we literally KNOW why. We were told this. McConnell threw a shit fit and told Obama that if he did anything he'd explode all over everything.
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Oh, there's language in it to remove the mandate?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


ok so i hope everyone is ok with there not being an individual insurance market




Oh, and employers aren't required to provide health insurance to employees?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


Ok so i hope everyone is ok with only independently wealthy people having health insurance
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Peace___Frog posted...

Oh, there's language in it to remove the mandate?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


ok so i hope everyone is ok with there not being an individual insurance market




Oh, and employers aren't required to provide health insurance to employees?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


Ok so i hope everyone is ok with only independently wealthy people having health insurance

You just completely contradicted yourself. Will there be no individual insurance market or will only "independently wealthy" people be able to afford insurance?
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

God, this thing looks fucking perfect (if you're a sociopathic upper class man).

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Looks like it also gets rid of essential health benefits, which means that even if you can get a plan without paying through the nose, it doesn't have to actually cover anything xfd
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So now what happens if you want insurance:

-you get it through your employer
-if your employer doesn't offer it, you purchase it individually
-if you can't afford to purchase it individually, you go on Medicaid
-if you are not poor enough to qualify for Medicaid, you stop complaining and either purchase the services you want or you choose not to do so

That is 100% fair and how the system should work right now (hopefully in time we can just eliminate employer-provided health insurance altogether)
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Regaro posted...

Looks like it also gets rid of essential health benefits, which means that even if you can get a plan without paying through the nose, it doesn't have to actually cover anything xfd

good thing you'll be able to shop around now, which means that insurance companies will offer competitive coverage!
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Not to distract too much from Trumpcare but

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/338988-trump-doesnt-have-comey-tapes-report

LOL
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http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/first-read/nbc-news-wsj-poll-public-overwhelmingly-disapproves-house-health-care-n775491

16% approve of the AHCA.
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How poor do you have to be to qualify for Medicaid?
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KamikazePotato posted...

Not to distract too much from Trumpcare but

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/338988-trump-doesnt-have-comey-tapes-report

LOL

You are distracting from Trumpcare with something that was already posted like 10 posts back, in fact. For shame!
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My Immortal posted...

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/first-read/nbc-news-wsj-poll-public-overwhelmingly-disapproves-house-health-care-n775491

16% approve of the AHCA.

The AHCA is completely dead. The Senate will be the bill that passes, if anything.
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i just wanna say plans that feature health savings accounts are a joke. i had one for a while and my deductible was $20,000.

HSAs just mean paying pre-tax, which is basically a 30% discount if you make decent money, and only applicable to money you agree not to invest

so that means i essentially had to spend $14,000 before the plan would pay out a dime

also, after a few years my scummy provider silently started charging me $5 a month just for keeping money in the account. i don't want to have to keep an eye on something like that
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

Regaro posted...

Looks like it also gets rid of essential health benefits, which means that even if you can get a plan without paying through the nose, it doesn't have to actually cover anything xfd

good thing you'll be able to shop around now, which means that insurance companies will offer competitive coverage!

And without the mandate in place, what reason do I have to believe anybody will offer a plan that is both affordable for the average person and actually covers the EHBs at a bare minimum?
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charmander6000 posted...

How poor do you have to be to qualify for Medicaid?

$16,039 for individuals, $21,307 for a family of 2, $26,813 for 3, $32,319 for 4, $37,825 for 5
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yeah that whole HSA thing is a joke.
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Regaro posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

Regaro posted...

Looks like it also gets rid of essential health benefits, which means that even if you can get a plan without paying through the nose, it doesn't have to actually cover anything xfd

good thing you'll be able to shop around now, which means that insurance companies will offer competitive coverage!

And without the mandate in place, what reason do I have to believe anybody will offer a plan that is both affordable for the average person and actually covers the EHBs at a bare minimum?

Because if no one buys it, the insurance provider will not stay in business? That's like asking why grocery stores don't charge thousands of dollars for food when there is no government mandate to do so.
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So the Senate came up with a bill that fucks poor people over even harder?
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

Not_an_Owl posted...

The Senate health care bill is out, and it's terrible (but I repeat myself):

http://www.npr.org/2017/06/22/533947844/senate-republicans-reveal-long-awaited-affordable-care-act-repeal-bill

Seems like a pretty centrist bill, actually. "Children" can stay on their parents' program till 26 and pre-existing conditions will still be covered.

Interesting to see how this gets spun though.

The bill is a flaming pile of garbage. The waivers for essential health benefits make the preexisting condition protections worthless.

As I recently heard it put, you can't be denied insurance for cancer, but you can be denied cancer treatment.
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Man, you'd have to be a fucking monster to think this this Senate bill looks good. What a tire fire.
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red13n posted...

So the Senate came up with a bill that fucks poor people over even harder?

Eh, about as hard, just in subtly different ways.
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LapisLazuli posted...

Man, you'd have to be a fucking monster to think this this Senate bill looks good. What a tire fire.

Not_an_Owl posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

God, this thing looks fucking perfect (if you're a sociopathic upper class man).

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Nelson_Mandela posted...

So now what happens if you want insurance:

-you get it through your employer
-if your employer doesn't offer it, you purchase it individually
-if you can't afford to purchase it individually, you go on Medicaid
-if you are not poor enough to qualify for Medicaid, you stop complaining and either purchase the services you want or you choose not to do so

That is 100% fair and how the system should work right now (hopefully in time we can just eliminate employer-provided health insurance altogether)

If you need Medicaid you're going to be fucked because the bill is going to completely gut the program long term by changing it from an open ended commitment to a bullshit block grant that won't keep pace with increases in medical costs.
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

Because if no one buys it, the insurance provider will not stay in business? That's like asking why grocery stores don't charge thousands of dollars for food when there is no government mandate to do so.

This is bullshit in so many ways that I can't even begin to address it at work.
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red13n posted...

So the Senate came up with a bill that fucks poor people over even harder?

Pretty much.

Theyre just hoping these ways are harder to make political ads out of.
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LordoftheMorons posted...

As I recently heard it put, you can't be denied insurance for cancer, but you can be denied cancer treatment.

This is incredibly disingenuous and will literally never happen (pharma companies will not allow their treatments to be denied and lose them billions of dollars).
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I guess on the brightside this bill is so horrible that it's going to give a huge boost to 2018 Dems even if it DOESN'T go through.
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The Senate bill will apparently be amended to appease Rand, Cruz, and Lee, but hopefully Mitch prepared for this.

This will be a glorious legislative victory if the GOP can pull this off.
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LapisLazuli posted...

I guess on the brightside this bill is so horrible that it's going to give a huge boost to 2018 Dems even if it DOESN'T go through.

Consensus seems to be that it is much more moderate and palatable than the House bill
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

LordoftheMorons posted...

As I recently heard it put, you can't be denied insurance for cancer, but you can be denied cancer treatment.

This is incredibly disingenuous and will literally never happen (pharma companies will not allow their treatments to be denied and lose them billions of dollars).

Come on you're not this naive.
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I dunno I have an HSA and I like it.
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

LapisLazuli posted...

I guess on the brightside this bill is so horrible that it's going to give a huge boost to 2018 Dems even if it DOESN'T go through.

Consensus seems to be that it is much more moderate and palatable than the House bill

The consensus of you and your buds, maybe. This thing is getting shredded.
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LapisLazuli posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

LapisLazuli posted...

I guess on the brightside this bill is so horrible that it's going to give a huge boost to 2018 Dems even if it DOESN'T go through.

Consensus seems to be that it is much more moderate and palatable than the House bill

The consensus of you and your buds, maybe. This thing is getting shredded.

By people who had their minds made up before it was even revealed.

The average voter is a blank slate. Rolling back the mandate + Protections for pre-existing conditions = a pretty easy sell to most people.
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The AHCA had those same features and people thought the bill was shit.

They largely changed nothing and people think this bill is shit, too.
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

LapisLazuli posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

LapisLazuli posted...

I guess on the brightside this bill is so horrible that it's going to give a huge boost to 2018 Dems even if it DOESN'T go through.

Consensus seems to be that it is much more moderate and palatable than the House bill

The consensus of you and your buds, maybe. This thing is getting shredded.

By people who had their minds made up before it was even revealed.

The average voter is a blank slate. Rolling back the mandate + Protections for pre-existing conditions = a pretty easy sell to most people.

Just like you have your mind made up that every single person who doesn't like the bill had their minds made up that they weren't going to like it, rather than maybe having actual, thought-out reasoning behind their dislike?
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Protections for preexisting conditions won't mean shit when insurance companies jack up prices for those people because there isn't a mandate giving them enough customers to offset the costs of treatment.
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TheRock1525 posted...

The AHCA had those same features and people thought the bill was shit.

They largely changed nothing and people think this bill is shit, too.

The most vitriolic reactions to the AHCA were by far against the pre-existing conditions waiver. Remember all of that "HAVING A VAGINA IS NOT A PRE-EXISTING CONDITION" nonsense?
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Espeon posted...

Protections for preexisting conditions won't mean shit when insurance companies jack up prices for those people because there isn't a mandate giving them enough customers to offset the costs of treatment.

They can only increase prices to a maximum 16% of income. Currently it's 9%.
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LapisLazuli posted...

I guess on the brightside this bill is so horrible that it's going to give a huge boost to 2018 Dems even if it DOESN'T go through.

The Dems have been so incompetent that I don't have faith they will make substantial gains. Especially since this bill is likely to become law sooner rather than later, thats nearly 2 years for Dems to completely get off message(Notice how Republicans spent years hammering obamacare being awful into peoples heads. Democrats suck at that. They cant stay on message. They'll chase down one story after another and lose message as usual).
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The key word is maximum. With a mandate, more people buy in and thus insurers can reasonably lower prices. Without one, there are fewer customers and thus insurers are incentivized to jack up prices as much as possible to cover operating costs (which are going to be higher since they're forced to pay out more claims due to the preexisting conditions).

If you're already not well off, that maximum 16% is fucking rough.
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