Board 8 > Scarlet Ranks 225 User-Nominated Super-Villains

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#187 - Ma Gunn Nominated by: Eddv
First Appearance: Batman #408 (Jun. 1987)
Created by: Max Allan Collins and Chris Warner

Fundamentals: 3/10
Track Record: 5/10
Scarlet Factor: 5/10

A minor character to be sure, the concept is pretty wonky. Ma Gunn runs a school for gifted youngsters - scratch that - poor children, but secretly it... gasp!... teaches children to be criminals! It's a school on fucking Crime Alley, so go figure. Like, what? Did they think that the other high school football teams were going to be willing to accept games against the Crime Alley Rapists? I don't know.

Anyways, There's definitely room for goofy, wonky characters in the Batman mythos, and I think if there was some effort put into this character, you'd see something pretty interesting. After all, this is a place that could start to churn out villains for Robins to tussle with from time to time. A source of villainy is of paramount importance to Gotham. Breeding the next generation of criminal is exactly what you need to do if you want Gotham to continue to evolve as a living, breathing entity in DC's universe.

Ma Gunn herself is a mix of Grelod the Kind and Granny Goodness. Not exactly the most fresh take on the evil headmistress, but I think the basic conceit of the school itself is enough for Gunn to feel safe resting on her laurels. You don't need to be great if you have a good enough gimmick. Just ask Val Venis.
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Ah I didn't know of her. I love me some older female villains (who look their age.
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I actually like Dickhead Superman (because I think Superman is obnoxiously boring usually, so I find no value in the "essence" you describe). I think it makes a lot of sense that anyone with that kind of absolute power could be corrupted absolutely -- especially in the name of the greater good.

Because that's what makes Superman compelling in the story. He isn't consciously using that as a cover. He's a true believer that what he's doing is right. It's a solid juxtaposition of his usual righteousness against his increasingly Machiavellian means.
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Also the fighting game is really fun!
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I really have to question people who think Superman is obnoxiously boring if they haven't read Kingdom Come, What's So Funny About Truth, Justice and the American Way? and All-Star Superman.

Also, absolute power corrupting absolutely is the Spectre's gimmick. Not Superman's.

I guess I'm going to just disagree vehemently with you. I also don't think "well this character is boring so if we just make him an entirely different character I can like him!" is remotely appropriate ever. Make a new character.
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I find this misconception about Superman being boring frustrating as well. There's so much more to his character than having lots of powers.

While I didn't mind the Injustice take on Superman, I think the concept was done better in the Justice League cartoon.

With the cartoon it is easier to suspend disbelief. With a long-running comic, I constantly come back to the thought that Superman DOESN'T corrupt. He has a very strong moral compass. The few real gaffes he has in his thinking become a subject of great regret for him. He wouldn't ever get this far down the authoritarian path; these are the nightmares of Lex Luthor, not the reality of Superman.

It's why you can be a bad character writer and still make an entertaining film like Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2. But if that movie had gone an hour longer, we would be breaking it down pretty harshly for several of the characters. JLU doesn't let you stew on the logical inconsistencies.
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The most boring A-list superhero to me is Thor. Superman has problems, but at his core he still views things from a mostly human perspective. Meanwhile, Thor is an immortal alien space god and he has all of the same problems Superman has. In the movies, Thor works fine as part of a larger cast, where he can be the silly one or whatever, but when he needs to carry his own movie, he gets completely upstaged by his much more interesting brother, who's also an immortal alien space god, but at least has like ambitions and limitations that Thor doesn't have and so is more sympathetic and interesting.

All of this applies only to the movies, I've never read a Thor comic besides larger events that he happens to also be in.
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Jesse_Custer posted...

I find this misconception about Superman being boring frustrating as well. There's so much more to his character than having lots of powers.

While I didn't mind the Injustice take on Superman, I think the concept was done better in the Justice League cartoon.

I love superman.

But there is a clear issue where people love this boring ass superman currently starring in rebirth and that they demand that be the "normal" and this is totally where the stereotype comes from.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

#187 - Ma Gunn Nominated by: Eddv
First Appearance: Batman #408 (Jun. 1987)
Created by: Max Allan Collins and Chris Warner

Fundamentals: 3/10
Track Record: 5/10
Scarlet Factor: 5/10

A minor character to be sure, the concept is pretty wonky. Ma Gunn runs a school for gifted youngsters - scratch that - poor children, but secretly it... gasp!... teaches children to be criminals! It's a school on fucking Crime Alley, so go figure. Like, what? Did they think that the other high school football teams were going to be willing to accept games against the Crime Alley Rapists? I don't know.

Anyways, There's definitely room for goofy, wonky characters in the Batman mythos, and I think if there was some effort put into this character, you'd see something pretty interesting. After all, this is a place that could start to churn out villains for Robins to tussle with from time to time. A source of villainy is of paramount importance to Gotham. Breeding the next generation of criminal is exactly what you need to do if you want Gotham to continue to evolve as a living, breathing entity in DC's universe.

Ma Gunn herself is a mix of Grelod the Kind and Granny Goodness. Not exactly the most fresh take on the evil headmistress, but I think the basic conceit of the school itself is enough for Gunn to feel safe resting on her laurels. You don't need to be great if you have a good enough gimmick. Just ask Val Venis.

Shes also involved in Jason Todds backstory!
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Oh, did you want me to make the score lower? :P
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Call me stupid, but I can't help but love Ma Gunn. I saw some of the panels and the idea of an evil stereotypical headmistress just makes me laugh inside. She even smokes which as you know is like bad guy 101.
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Oh my god. I just realized her real name is a pun on Fagin. WTF XD
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#186 - Rat Creatures Nominated by: Gundammike
First Appearance: Out of Boneville (1996)
Created by: Jeff Smith

Fundamentals: 5/10
Track Record: 3/10
Scarlet Factor: 5/10

Rat creatures are nameless terrors in Bone. There's really not much to say. They're a strength in numbers enemy. They are devoid of personality. They are devoid of development as characters. They're like Puddies in Power Rangers.

I don't want to do write-ups for Puddies.
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#185 - Arkillo Nominated by: bullhogderbaxer
First Appearance: Green Lantern #10 (May 2006)
Created by: Geoff Johns and Ivan Reis

Fundamentals: 6/10
Track Record: 5/10
Scarlet Factor: 5/10

Introduced as Sinestro's right hand man, Arkillo is a character with potential that is quite honestly wasted. Arkillo is a very smart foil to Kilowog, but strangely most readers don't seem to realize this in my experience. Kilowog, when it comes to Geoff Johns' run, is very much a veteran teacher and leader upon which Hal Jordan can rely. Arkillo plays the same role for Sinestro, and in a few brief training sequences, it's actually hard to differentiate the two. I love this for a number of reasons. Kilowog himself is a character that is such a utility player in the Green Lantern titles and also a guy that Sinestro knew very well in his own GLC tenure. It seems only natural that, as he is developing his own Corps, he would seek out a Kilowog of his own. I've always loved how much Sinestro mirrors the Green Lantern Corps in a lot of ways. Ranx is his Mogo. Karu-Sil is his Katma Tui. Romat Ru is his Tomar Re. Karu-Sil is his Salaak.

Anyways, as a secondary (and oftentimes tertiary) Lantern character, Arkillo has never really had the chance to shine as a primary antagonist. At best he consistently is forced into the background when characters like the Weaponeer or Mongul pick up Sinestro Corps rings. One thing I notice becomes a minor problem for the massive cast of Johns' phenomenally good epic space opera is that whenever someone new and shiny shows up, it forces everyone to accept a bump backwards down the line. You become less important for every new Corps and for every new player in said Corps. That was the fate of Arkillo. Motherfucker got his tongue ripped out, and he hardly got any play for it.

There's not much to say after that.
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I'm sorry I missed nominations so I couldn't nominate the #1 villain Bullseye.

'Cause Bullseye is toppest tier villain.
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Bullseye was nominated.
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I only know Bullseye from the Daredevil movie. I think he's played by Cipher from the Matrix.
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Whoever nominated Bullseye is a good person then!

Glad he's not knocked out already. I'm just sad that I need to wait a while to #1 to see his write up!
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#184 - Hugo Strange Nominated by: davidponte
First Appearance: Detective Comics #36 (Feb. 1940)
Created by: Bill Finger and Bob Kane

Fundamentals: 5/10
Track Record: 6/10
Scarlet Factor: 3/10

When I think of the worst psychologist in the world, I think of Hugo Strange. Although in my mind, I imagine that Hugo Strange also overbills at the end of sessions.

Strange is a staple of Batman mythology, but his brilliant intellect is usually dwarfed by a compunction to grandstand with long monologues, and he comes across as a villain from a bygone era. He doesn't have that timeless quality that propels the Jokers and Catwomen to superstardom. Still, he's carved a niche for himself in that second-tier of Batman opponents.

Strange really lacks a trademark gimmick to make him stand out. While his spectacles certainly make him recognizable, it's hard to quantify who he is with a sentence or two. The best characters, as I've said before are simple on the surface and complex in actuality. We'll see some amazing examples of this as we climb the list. Strange is nondescript in a lot of ways, but worse yet, he's devoid of much depth. The real place he plays well is in the realm of fear and confronting one's past. And sadly, the Scarecrow has become terror incarnate - and not just in Batman. In all of comics, really. Strange has really been upstaged (although you could hardly blame Strange for this; Scarecrow debuted after he did). Still, it leaves Strange in the position of always being a bridesmaid and never being a bride. He's not the ultimate antagonist for Batman; he's not a foil for the Dark Knight. He's just a solid but not spectacular villain.
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I admittedly don't have much experience with Strange, he only came to mind because of his appearance in the current Batman run.

Surprised he was the first to show up, though.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

When I think of the worst psychologist in the world, I think of Hugo Strange. Although in my mind, I imagine that Hugo Strange also overbills at the end of sessions.

I doubt anyone nominated Moonstone... but I'd actually probably say she's the worst psychologist. Incidentally, she's also my favorite female villain.

Moonstone would convince her patients to kill themselves for kicks and forced a bunch of them into a hospital. Not only that, she actively hated her patients so much for having to rely on them to pay her bills that she decided to become a criminal as a result.
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Isn't Harley Quinn the worst psychologist in the world by default?

I know there's a panel out there implying she only got a degree because she slept with a professor.
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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

When I think of the worst psychologist in the world, I think of Hugo Strange. Although in my mind, I imagine that Hugo Strange also overbills at the end of sessions.

I doubt anyone nominated Moonstone... but I'd actually probably say she's the worst psychologist. Incidentally, she's also my favorite female villain.

Moonstone would convince her patients to kill themselves for kicks and forced a bunch of them into a hospital. Not only that, she actively hated her patients so much for having to rely on them to pay her bills that she decided to become a criminal as a result.

Moonstone would have been at least Top 20, just fyi. Probably closer to Top 10.

Anagram posted...

Isn't Harley Quinn the worst psychologist in the world by default?

I know there's a panel out there implying she only got a degree because she slept with a professor.

Harley isn't a psychologist anymore though. She switched careers.
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You're good people scarlet. The run she had in Ms. Marvel holds a special place in my heart. The art in that run is probably among the best comic artwork too.
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#183 - Chameleon (Dmitri Smerydakov) Nominated by: Great_Paul
First Appearance: Amazing Spider-Man #1 (Mar. 1963)
Created by: Stan Lee and Steve Ditko

Fundamentals: 6/10
Track Record: 5/10
Scarlet Factor: 3/10

The concept of a master of disguise is always appealing; I think that on an elementary level, Chameleon is fairly successful. He can allow of sensical plot twists (note: SENSIBLE) without forcing a writer to break the bank and cash in a lot of villains for versatility. At the same time, however, Chameleon, the very first of Spider-Man's rogues, gets little to no love from writers anymore. On the instances he does appear, his work is so one-note that it almost leaves you aching for a different villain, and that's a bad sign.

A Cold War relic in a lot of ways, the Russian KGB-styled spy character probably would be more at home these days in Captain America or SHIELD. In fact, that might be a quadrant of the Marvel Universe where the Chameleon would flourish. Instead, trying to hew closely to the original debut franchises of Marvel characters tends to hurt these characters. Unlike the Vulture, Chameleon has never been able to spread his wings and really fly in the Spider-Man titles. There are just too many characters who are more recognizable and more popular. Those are two things that he just can't overcome. The first thing is part of the reason why Chameleon will always have a tough time making waves, and it's a nature of the beast. Chameleon's unique face just doesn't show up that often in his stories - master of disguise and all. And if you're not recognizable, you can't really gain any real quantity of popularity. There's not a bit of traction to be had.

Still, I think Chameleon could flourish as a villain in a title centered more around espionage, and that might be where the money lies for him.
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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

You're good people scarlet. The run she had in Ms. Marvel holds a special place in my heart. The art in that run is probably among the best comic artwork too.

For me, it's all about that Warren Ellis Thunderbolt run. He really nailed her. But I can't think of a storyline where I didn't find her delightfully manipulative. She's definitely one of the great villain personalities of Marvel.
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Oh, I love the Warren Ellis run also. That run is probably among my favorite Thunderbolts runs. The only time I'm more wishy-washy on Moonstone is when they try to have her have a heart. Because she's at her best when she cares only about furthering herself.
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Agreed. She's one of those rare villains that should only appear to care about other people and then leave the room and just roll her eyes at their stupidity. She's really more of an antagonist to the Thunderbolts than an asset, and I think that makes her pretty damn awesome - when you can villain the villains, you're doing something right.
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For all the flack I'll give Bendis, I think he did a great job with her during Dark Avengers too. Hell, Dark Reign was my favorite period in comics actually. I wish we could have something awesome like that again, but all we get are shitty things like this HYDRA thing that's going on right now.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

Strange really lacks a trademark gimmick to make him stand out. While his spectacles certainly make him recognizable, it's hard to quantify who he is with a sentence or two.

I mean I don't disagree with this, but I don't see that as a bad thing. I've found Strange to always be an interesting character with plenty of potential that I don't think has been fully explored.

I love me some Chameleon tbh but admittedly he has been lacking in recent years.
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I think Chameleon really works best working with other villains, at least nowadays. The scope of what he wants to accomplish with the scope of what Spider-Man deals with now is pretty different. Maybe with the tertiary Spider heroes he could do more solo work with them.
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#182 - Sauron (Karl Lykos) Nominated by: Wickle
First Appearance: X-Men #59 (Aug. 1969)
Created by: Roy Thomas and Neal Adams

Fundamentals: 5/10
Track Record: 5/10
Scarlet Factor: 4/10

In the Lord of the Rings films, he's the embodiment of evil; in J.R.R. Tolkien's novels, he is a disciple of the greatest evil being in the land who goes on to try to destroy the world — either way, Sauron is the worst of the worst in arguably the most seminal fantasy series ever written. Though Sauron is fairly one dimensional, his villainy is embodied in his single-minded efforts to overtake Middle-Earth. In case his efforts didn't scream "villainy" on their own, everything he puts his stamp on is twisted, corrupted and — especially in the case of Mordor — hellish. There's little subtly with his depiction as an evildoer, but Tolkien's careful crafting and Sauron's later depiction on the big screen solidify him as a mastermind of evil.

Personally I like to remember the Silmarillion version, the beautiful lightbringer turned evil, the William Blake Satan corrupted per tradition.
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Jesse_Custer posted...

I mean I don't disagree with this, but I don't see that as a bad thing. I've found Strange to always be an interesting character with plenty of potential that I don't think has been fully explored.

I would disagree. I think the sheer number of showcase stories for Hugo Strange is pretty darn expansive. I think Hugo Strange is a good character who just gets outclassed in virtually every other way in that franchise.

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

I think Chameleon really works best working with other villains, at least nowadays. The scope of what he wants to accomplish with the scope of what Spider-Man deals with now is pretty different. Maybe with the tertiary Spider heroes he could do more solo work with them.

I think Spider-Man is the wrong franchise for him. Chameleon is a great threat for a series that puts a premium on deception. He's not a great threat for a series that pretty much puts a goofy special effects guy on the same tier as a mastermind of mimicry.
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Something tells me this write-up of Sauron does not seem to be the pictured character. I can't quite put my finger on the reasoning behind that.
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#181 - KGBeast (Anatoli Ivan Drago Kruschev) Nominated by: Eddv
First Appearance: Batman #417 (Mar. 1988)
Created by: Jim Starlin and Jim Aparo

Fundamentals: 5/10
Track Record: 5/10
Scarlet Factor: 4/10

Da, hello comrade! Here in Soviet Russia, Write-up does you! That is why ve vill ask the questions! How dare you insult motherland with your democracy. You have no culture! You should bow before the true dominant force in the world. Your lavish lifestyles will corrupt the very fiber of your nation. The soul of your so-called American Empire is withered, rotting away like month-old bread.

That is why I, KGBeast, hero of the Russian people denounce this entire list. It is made by a capitalist pig. I refuse to be labeled as a villain only worth 14 points. To hell with this list, you scum!
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Best Sauron panel ever:


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That is indeed a great panel.
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Got a soft spot for the KGBeast, Ten Nights of The Beast is good story and they didn't really beat him to death after it either which was good, even if is appearances were kind of pointless.
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bump
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LMAO Sauron
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Sunday/Monday are days off for me this week.
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Okay, thanks for letting me know.
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That Sauron panel automatically makes him a mid tier villain that's amazing.
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Normally I don't post on my days off but I am so phenomenally bored today that I will drop some write-ups for everyone.

#180 - James Gordon Jr. Nominated by: bullhogderbaxer
First Appearance: Batman #407 (May 1987
Created by: Frank Miller and David Mazzucchelli

Fundamentals: 5/10
Track Record: 5/10
Scarlet Factor: 4/10

The sins of the child visited upon the father. It's a different take on a long oft-used concept in storytelling. Jimmy Jr. is a fairly standard psychotic murderer. There's nothing that really differentiates him from other killers in terms of modus operandi or personality. However, that choice parentage is what makes JGJ a compelling villain for a brief outing or two. And having 1 or 2 compelling stories is more than a character like Avalanche from the X-Men ever had, so I have to give credit where credit is due.

There are no long-term builds you can make with a simple, low-level character like Gordon's son. It's a character you can use for a couple intimate stories before you dump in the comic book bargain bin. But if you're a great writer, you can really rip the heart out of the readers, and that's what Snyder did with JGJ. So points for that. He doesn't overstay his welcome, he wreaks havoc on his pappy, and he does it eloquently and efficiently.
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#179 - Gideon Graves Nominated: Raka
First Appearance: Scott Pilgrim & the Infinite Sadness (May 2006)
Created by: Bryan Lee O'Malley

Fundamentals: 5/10
Track Record: 5/10
Scarlet Factor: 4/10

So let's say you're designing a short series that puts a premium on memorable personalities and relationships. And at the end of the story, you want to create a truly awe-inspiring confrontation between the hero and a primary antagonist that has yet to truly reveal the full extent of his power. If you reach this point, I highly recommend you go and read Scott Pilgrim and learn how NOT to do it.

Gideon Graves was never given much backstory, suddenly appears after a couple forgettable cameo panels, and really feels like a final boss punching bag with no real reason for existing. Does he have a personality? Yes-ish. He's just a hipster douche. He's a New Age corporatespeak dick. There's not much else to him. There really aren't any well-reasoned explanations for why he has chosen to haunt Ramona Flowers with his League of Evil Exes. There aren't any great or profound lines he provides that throw into question everything around him. The story just moves in and around him and we're expected to care that he has suddenly shown up and done PLOT THINGS.

This is not how to create a compelling narrative.

Graves should have been alluded to from the get-go, existing in the lore of Scott Pilgrim from the start. Instead, after five fantastic volumes, we get a somewhat lackluster finale. It's not Graves' fault. Well actually it is completely Graves' fault. You can make a lackey less sensical in their motivations. That's okay. When you're, for all intents and purposes, just a number, you don't matter that much. But when you're THE premiere ultimate antagonist, a lot rests on your shoulders.

Look at one of my all-time favorite villains that was not nominated here. Randall Dowling, leader of The Four in Planetary, appears frequently in the series. Or, I should say, makes his presence felt constantly. We learn about him early on, work our way up the ladder to him through 30 issues, and finally confront him at the end of the series. There's a logical progression to how things work so that when you hit the final boss button, it is clear that this is a big fucking deal.

It is not clear that Gideon Graves matters any more or less than any of the other Evil Exes. And that's a big problem.
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#178 - Dreamqueen Nominated by: Mega Mana
First Appearance: Alpha Flight #56 (Mar. 1988)
Created by: Bill Mantlo and Jim Lee

Fundamentals: 5/10
Track Record: 5/10
Scarlet Factor: 4/10

One of the quirks of using the points system that I'm using is that, quite simply, things don't land where they should land. Case in point, Evil Whorish Fake Scarlet Witch.

I could barely tell you anything about this character. She was around for a few years, she did stuff in a title that I never really cared about (and still don't), and then she was gone.

She had a nice rack, I guess. If you care about that sort of thing. Normally it doesn't matter that much to me. Especially since it's an X-Men title and that's about all any female character has going for herself.

I really have nothing to say about this character. I couldn't grade her poorly because she is sort of just an average villain, and I can't grade her highly because that would require me giving a fuck, and I do not.

I am sorry for these extremely short paragraphs.
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Toxie Doxie is the much better Scarlet Witch knockoff tbh.
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You know whose an even better Scarlet Witch knockoff than that? Wander. Scar and Eddv know who that is ;)
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