With VGMC5 at its conclusion, I thought it time to try something a little bit different. The idea is simple, but the approach may have some curious depth to it.
This is a contest to determine the best video game soundtrack by voting on individual tracks head-to-head. A different song from the game will be used in each round. The contest will be for a field of 64, which would mean the game would need to have six songs to represent it, plus I want one alternate to play during tiebreaker rounds. Upon popular demand, it sounds like we will likely be going to double elimination, at which point, the alternate song would help games through the loser's bracket as well, but the tiebreaker is its primary purpose.
ITT, I'm looking for nominations for games, as well as support votes to help determine placement. A support vote is simple. Just say that you support a game that's been nominated. You can support as many games as you want, but obviously one vote of support for each game.
To put forth a nomination, you need to propose seven songs, with YouTube links, and order matters. To illustrate why, let me give you an example:
(Sample only) Nomination: Sonic the Hedgehog 1. Green Hill Zone - (link for GH zone) 2. Marble Zone - (link for Marble zone) 3. Spring Yard Zone - (link for SY zone) 4. Labyrinth Zone - (link for Labyrinth zone) 5. Starlight Zone - (link for Starlight zone) 6. Scrap Brain Zone - (link for Scrap Brain zone) Alt. Boss Theme - (link for Boss Theme)
This is the order of the stages in Sonic 1. If we were to use this list, in round 1, Sonic would be comparing Green Hills Zone to the first song on the other game's list. Green Hills Zone is a pretty venerable piece, so let's say for the sake of argument it wins. Likewise for Marble and Spring Yard Zone, which are decent songs. Labyrinth Zone would get used in the fourth round, though. You have to assume you'd be getting a quality opponent in round 4, and you're playing...Labyrinth Zone?? It wouldn't even be a contest. Sonic would lose ridiculously unless the other game also had a weak fourth song.
Of course, depending on how strong you think your game is might determine if you want to use the best songs up front to ensure it wins the first two rounds, or save it for the end in the big final showdown.
If a song is nominated, I'm going to use the playlist that person suggests. I reserve the right to step in if the songs chosen are terrible, but otherwise if you want different songs for a game, you'll need to take it up with the person who nominated the game.
You are limited to one nomination per day. Nomination period ends Sunday at the end of the day. Additional support votes will be accepted on Monday.
The teams entered into the tournament will be the 64 with the highest number of support votes. This also determines seeding.
In the first nomination topic, a few posters suggested the tournament be made double elimination. At first glance, without thinking about it much, I said, "eh sure, why not?"
Since that time, I've thought about "why not."
PROS TO DOUBLE ELIMINATION * A game that loses in round 1 to a soundtrack that's more of a one-hit wonder will be allowed to continue. * It extends the tournament, leading to more excitement. * It ensures the alternate song comes into use, since it would be needed during the loser's bracket.
CONS TO DOUBLE ELIMINATION * It undercuts some of the strategic elements of planning whether a game's strong songs should go early or late. * The loser's bracket for a 64-team tournament is rather messy, and could lead to one game potentially playing as many as 11 times. * The loser's bracket cannot be displayed on bracketmaster easily, since their highest double elimination bracket is for 32. (And no, you can't just do two of them.)
That second point is a significant concern, since there are already some 70+ nominations, and I am not about to ask for those games to submit additional songs. But then that means we would need some reasonable method for choosing which songs would get repeated.
HOW THE LOSER'S BRACKET WOULD GO
In the winner's bracket, 32 games would lose in round 1, 16 in round 2, 8 in round 3, 4 in R4, 2 in R5, and 1 in R6.
To make the numbers work correctly, and be fair to games that won a round or more in the winner's bracket, every game would receive a number of byes in the loser's bracket equal to their wins in the main bracket. Losers from rounds 5 and 6 would receive an extra bye. However, this means that the bracket would require *NINE* additional rounds.
R1: 32 losers -> 16 R2: 16 from before, plus 16 new losers = 32 -> 16 R3: 16 from before, plus 8 new losers = 24 -> 12 R4: 12 from before, plus 4 new losers = 16 -> 8 R5: 8 from before -> 4 R6: 4 from before, plus 2 new losers = 6 -> 3 R7: 3 from before, plus 1 new loser = 4 -> 2 R8: 2 -> 1
And then the loser's bracket winner would play the winner's bracket champion. If it should win once, then a rematch would occur. This means that a game losing in the first 4 rounds of the main bracket that goes on to win the loser's bracket will play in 10 or 11 matches.
So, I'm going to listen to popular opinion here. Do you think double elimination will be more exciting, and allow us to enjoy the tournament longer, or just create a logistical nightmare and not be worth it?
* The loser's bracket for a 64-team tournament is rather messy, and could lead to one game potentially playing as many as 11 times.
But then that means we would need some reasonable method for choosing which songs would get repeated.
I'm not sure how these are possible. If you set things up correctly, no entry should have a song be reused at all. The eventual winner of the losers bracket should only have 1-5 + Alt used with 6 being used for the battle between the winner of the winner's bracket alt and the loser #6.
anyway
YES
I would prefer Double Elimination but I don't mind if it's not used.
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Want to listen to more video game music every day? Check out the VGMusicoftheDay Youtube Channel sometime!
Only problem with double elimination for me is the final match. This isn't like a sports event or video game tournament where skill makes a big difference; the result would probably be roughly the same for both matches if the loser's bracket winner won the first match.
-- [NO BARKLEY NO PEACE] If you can't slam with the best, then jam with the rest.
In the case of the final match, if the loser is the consolation song, have it matched against the loser of the championship final for a true third place.
But I guess that doesn't address the issue of the consolation song winning, does it?
The number 6 song would be used for the first round between the two, and in the case that the loser's bracket winner wins that round, song 6 obviously can't be used again, so using the alt for the second round would make more sense. Unless it would just be one round for the finals.
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Yes, I laugh at my own jokes. http://lparchive.org/Metroid-Prime-3-Corruption/Images/1-sitandspinumos.gif
I would say yes to double elimination. I think it's an interesting idea overall. But I also would not mind if you decided to pass on it. Whatever works best!
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You laugh at my Celtic Guardian, until I use my Scapegoat, and then United We Stand, Mage Power, and 3 Axe Of Despairs, with Gaia Power out. 11900/7800
SuperAngelo128 posted... From: azuarc | #002 I'm not sure how these are possible. If you set things up correctly, no entry should have a song be reused at all. The eventual winner of the losers bracket should only have 1-5 + Alt used with 6 being used for the battle between the winner of the winner's bracket alt and the loser #6.
This would be true if the losers from each round only played their co-losers from that round.
Round 1 losers (32) play 5 rounds to determine a winner. Round 2 losers (16) play 4 rounds to determine a winner. Round 3 losers (8) play 3 rounds to determine a winner. Round 4 losers (4) play 2 rounds to determine a winner. Round 5 losers (2) play 1 round to determine a winner. Round 6 loser (1) doesn't need to play anything. The cheese stands alone.
And if any one of these were selected to play the winner's winner, then yes, only 7 songs would be needed. The problem is that you need additional matches interlacing the different levels entering the bracket. And, thanks to the very last member joining the bracket being a single member, it isn't even symmetric.
Or, put another way for the mathematically inclined:
* The R1 losers have played 1 match leading into the losers bracket. They each occupy one slot at the "root" of the loser's bracket. There are 32. * The R2 losers have played 2 matches leading into the losers bracket. By right, they should not have to play in the very first tier. By virtue of getting 1 bye, they effectively take up 2 slots each. The 16 of them take up 32 base positions. * The R3 losers have played 3 matches, and should be able to skip the first two levels. The 8 of them take up 32 positions (since 2 byes represents a four-pack.) * The R4 losers -- 4 of them -- take up 8 positions each for a total of 32. * The R5 and R6 losers also each represent 32.
That makes a total of 192 "base" positions. The fewest number of rounds needed to conclude such a tree is log-base-2 of 192, which is between 7 and 8.
THESE ARE WHAT I ALREADY NOMINATED. I am reposting them so I can find them again easily, now that we have a new topic.
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Nomination: Okami 1. Shinshuu Plains - 2. Yamata-No-Orochi's Extermination II - 3. Giving Kushinada a Ride - 4. Northern Country Kamui - 5. The Sun Rises - 6. Reset ~ Thank You Version - Alt. Harami Lake -
Considerations for switching: Demon Lord Nine-Tail's Extermination, Ryoshima Plains, Twin Devils Moshirechik and Kotanechik's Extermination, Uepeker, Ushiwaka's Dance ~ Playing With Ushiwaka
Ones I love but Board 8 probably would not: Ezo Fuji Irwak Shrine, Izayoi Shrine, Kaguya's Theme, Reset, Ushiwaka's Appearance
Suggestions so far: Replace Shinshuu Plains with Ryoshima Plains, consider Ushiwaka's Dance ~ Playing With Ushiwaka, consider Dragon Palace.
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Nomination: Xenogears 1. Flight - 2. June Mermaid - 3. Small of Two Pieces ~Restored Pieces~ - 4. Shattering Egg of Dreams - 5. Emotions - 6. Awakening - Alt. Omen -
Considerations for switching: Bonds of Sea and Fire, Fuse, Knight of Fire, Light from the Netherworld, The One who is Torn Apart
Ones I love but Board 8 probably would not: Grahf Emperor of Darkness, Leftovers From the Dreams of the Strong, Ship of Regret and Sleep, Star of Tears, The Valley Where Wind is Born
Suggestions so far: Replace Emotions with Bonds of Sea and Fire, replace Omen.
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Nomination: Final Fantasy Tactics 1. Trisection - 2. Remnants - 3. Battle on the Bridge - 4. Decisive Battle - 5. Under the Stars - 6. Antipyretic - Alt. Ultima, the Nice Body -
Considerations for switching: Apoplexy, In Pursuit, Run Past Through the Plains, Tension1, Ultema the Perfect Body
All right, now for my fourth nomination. Let me just say that I'm glad someone else did Castlevania: Symphony of the Night. It has a great OST, but my favorite Castlevania soundtrack is not that one. I'm now totally free to nominate said favorite.
Nomination: Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia 1. Sorrow’s Distortion - 2. Dissonant Courage - 3. Jaws of a Scorched Earth - 4. Order of the Demon - 5. Rhapsody of the Forsaken - 6. An Empty Tome - Alt. The Colossus -
An Empty Tome: The general consensus is that this is one of the best pieces on the entire soundtrack, if not the best. It is basically the defining piece for this game. Definitely one of the strongest selections for this contest, I think.
Dissonant Courage: I am a little iffy on this one. It is an undeniably catchy piece, in my mind. But how far will that go in this contest? This or Jaws of a Scorched Earth would be my picks to replace if it turned out to be necessary.
Jaws of a Scorched Earth: This might be the weak link of what I picked. I still like it a lot, but the others stand out a bit more. It is a rather calm piece compared to the others, but without being boring. At least, that’s how I see it.
Order of the Demon: An impressive theme for Dracula. I think this will be liked well enough, even if some people would prefer Dance of Illusions over it. It’s all a taste thing, so I guess it’s a gamble on what Board 8’s tastes will be.
Rhapsody of the Forsaken: One of my absolute favorite area pieces, and one of my favorite pieces on the track in general. Considering how early in the game it plays, it is sort of surprising how good it is, but it really is good. I think this one should stay for sure.
Sorrow’s Distortion: This is most likely my favorite battle music in the game. I could see a mixed reaction to it, but since I am so attached to it, I hope it gets to stay. Probably helps that the fight it is attached to is one of my favorites in the series. But I do think it has enough strength to make the top seven even with my bias.
The Colossus: This manages to be a fairly successful stage theme. I am not severely attached to it, though, so I could see it being swapped for something else if necessary. I suppose I’ll wait to see what everyone’s opinions are.
Considerations for switching: Ebony Wings, Emerald Mist, Hard Won Nobility, Lament of the Master, Unholy Vesper
Ones I love but Board 8 probably would not: A Clashing of Waves, Chapel Hidden in Smoke, Lone Challenger, Serenade of the Hearth, Wandering the Crystal Blue
Suggestions, as always, are welcome!
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You laugh at my Celtic Guardian, until I use my Scapegoat, and then United We Stand, Mage Power, and 3 Axe Of Despairs, with Gaia Power out. 11900/7800
Nomination: Ragnarok Online (PC) 1. Purity of Your Smile ~ 2. CheongChoon ~ 3. Good Morning ~ 4. Can't Go Home Again, Baby ~ 5. We Have Lee But You Don't Have ~ 6. Not So Far Away ~ Alt. Theme of Morroc ~
Snubs: Gambler of Highway, Desert, You're in Ruins, Theme of Al de Baran, One Fine Day, The Great.
Nominate: NiGHTS into Dreams... 1. Paternal Horn ~ 2. Take the Slow Train ~ 3. Under Construction ~ 4. Suburban Museum ~ 5. Nights and Reala ~Theme of a Tragedic Revenge~ ~ 6. The Dragon Gave A Loud Scream ~ Alt. The Amazing Water ~
Snubs: Dream (full version, which appeared in the OST but not the game), Dreams Dreams (Any version of the song. It's probably the games most known track, but it also has very cheesy lyrics.)
Nomination: Okami 1. Shinshuu Plains - 2. Yamata-No-Orochi's Extermination II - 3. Giving Kushinada a Ride - 4. Northern Country Kamui - 5. The Sun Rises - 6. Reset ~ Thank You Version - Alt. Harami Lake -
Considerations for switching: Demon Lord Nine-Tail's Extermination, Ryoshima Plains, Twin Devils Moshirechik and Kotanechik's Extermination, Uepeker, Ushiwaka's Dance ~ Playing With Ushiwaka
Ones I love but Board 8 probably would not: Ezo Fuji Irwak Shrine, Izayoi Shrine, Kaguya's Theme, Reset, Ushiwaka's Appearance
Suggestions so far: Replace Shinshuu Plains with Ryoshima Plains, consider Ushiwaka's Dance ~ Playing With Ushiwaka, consider Dragon Palace.
I'm not a big fan of the Extermination songs. I would rather see Dragon Palace or Ryoshima Coast. One of my favorite songs from the OST is True Susano-O ), but I never see anyone else mention that one, so I don't know.
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"I am SO gonna kick your ass!" - "No, no, no, no, no. I'm gonna kick YOUR ass!" Nominate Yuri Lowell / Flynn Scifo
I still want those Okami changes, yes! I'd replace Northern Country Kamui too (with Dragon Palace), but it's good enough really. Orochi's Extermination and Shinshuu plains should be replaced with Ushikawa's Dance and Ryoshima Plains respectively. The rest are good!
I also love Reset, not sure what the rest of the board would think but Japanese vocals (Love Song of a Certain Dragon) did well this year and I prefer Reset by a whole bunch so I dunno.
SUPPORT: Bully
Nomination: Touhou 8 ~ Imperishable Night 1. Lunatic Eyes ~ Invisible Full Moon - 2. Plain Asia - 3. Cinderella Cage ~ Kagome-Kagome - 4. Reach for the Moon, Immortal Smoke - 5. Gensokyo Millenium ~ History of the Moon - 6. Flight of the Bamboo Cutter ~ Lunatic Princess Alt. Love-Coloured Master Spark -
ALSO, I'm willing to support Touhou 7 ~ Perfect Cherry Blossom if Doll Judgment was moved into the first six somewhere and if the list included Border of Life and the Fantastic Legend of Tohno!
Shoenin, I have you down for F-Zero X for now. It's X, not GX, if that influences anything. Actually yeah, they're 2 completely different games, I just didn't know if GX was nominated or not <_<
Since I nominated GX already, Ill go ahead and nominate Madworld as well. Ill put the list for GX since It wasn't put down last topic
F-Zero GX 1. Dr. Stewart - 2. For the Glory - 3. James McCloud - 4. Zoda - 5. Cover Of Big Blue's Theme - 6. Phoenix - Alt. Shotgun Kiss -
I just wana make sure this gets out the 1st rounds or so <_<
Madworld: 1. Ain't that funny - 2. Survival - 3. Ride!! - 4. Look Pimpin 5. Get it Up - 6. Soul - alt. Death and Honour -
yeah I know its doomed to fail but hell if this don't sound good.
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Nice catch BlAcK TuRtLe. But too bad your ass got SAAAAAAAAAAACKED.*tackles*
There's no need to repost your nominations to make sure they're known about. Everything's in the spreadsheet, which is in the original post, and anyone can go look at that.
The only reason to repost is if you're looking for feedback on your song selection.
In case anyone is having issues with googledocs, here are all the nominations I've received. If I've missed something (GX,) just tell me which post it was in the first time around.
Secret of Mana Donkey Kong Country 2 Lufia II: Rise of the Sinistrals NIER Mega Man X Halo 3: ODST Deus Ex ClaDun: This is an RPG Bastion Umineko no Naku Koro Ni Chiru Touhou 10 - Mountain of Faith Chrono Cross Plok Xenosaga III Okami Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - Trials & Tribulations Lost Odyssey Lords of Thunder Umineko No Naku Koro Ni Perfect Dark Neotokyo Kirby 64: The Crystal Shards Timesplitters 2 Touhou 7 - Perfect Cherry Blossom Wild ARMs XF Final Fantasy X F-Zero X Mother 3 Kirby's Epic Yarn Shatter God Eater (aka Gods Eater Burst) Xenogears Homestuck Last Ranker Ragnarok Online Der Langrisser Ar Tonelico II: Melody of Metafalica ICO Ys VII Metroid Prime VVVVVV Chrono Trigger Sonic CD (US) Tyrian Ninja Gaiden II Super Mario Galaxy 2 Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike Online Edition Killer7 Ace Combat 4: Shattered Skies World of Warcraft Drakengard Paper Mario Final Fantasy VIII Bomberman Hero Barkley: Shut Up and Jam Gaiden Final Fantasy Tactics Amplitude Final Fantasy IX NiGHTS into Dreams Jets'n'Guns Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Sky Guilty Gear X Tales of Legendia Final Fantasy VII Castlevania: Symphony of the Night Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter Mass Effect Goldeneye: 007 Axelay .hack//G.U. Vol 1//Rebirth Banjo-Kazooie Bully Mega Man 3 Skies of Arcadia Wild aRMs 5 Castle Crashers Jet Force Gemini
A) Wild Arms 5 needs On The Day The Shovel Was Named Invincible. Too good a track to pass up.
B) Given Castle Crashers' situation, would Full Throttle's soundtrack be nommable? 'Cause if so, brb nomming that crunk.
Now, let's see...today should be the first day open to my 'pet' noms. Now to decide if the first one should be Unreal Tournament, Streets of Rage Remake, Ristar, or Hard Corps.
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Currently playing: League of Legends, Chrono Cross. Current Projects: Fool's Overture, CYOA: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/60143513
KCF0107 posted... If we do end up doing single elimination, I will be changing the order of Plok, and possibly others then
Understood. I'll be reordering mine as well, probably, since I figured the alt would be one of the two guaranteed plays.
I don't know whether or not you overlooked it or not azurac but Angelo supported my Bully nomination
Didn't see it.
B) Given Castle Crashers' situation, would Full Throttle's soundtrack be nommable? 'Cause if so, brb nomming that crunk.
Which Full Throttle (LucasArts SCUMM or Arcade racing) are we discussing, and why is the OST questionable?
Trying to put together a nom of my own for today. Was going to suggest Trine, but I can't find any songs that stand out well enough to put on the list. It's all really good music that doesn't call any attention to itself at all. Back to the drawing board, unless I want to nominate something typical...
Katamari Damacy 1.Katamaritiano / Roll Me In 2.The Moon and the Prince 3.The Wonder Stars Walk is Wonderful 4.Angel's Flavor Present 5.Lonely Rolling Star 6.Katamari on the Rocks Alt. Que Sera Sera
if anyone disagrees on the order please say so I'm up for changes for this
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Want to listen to more video game music every day? Check out the VGMusicoftheDay Youtube Channel sometime!
I will support F-Zero X, but I do want to make a few suggestions:
1. Add "The Long Distance of Murder" (replace it with either Fall Down... or Rainbow Road) 2. If you replace it with the former, that is probably a good position for it at #2 3. If you replace it with the latter, switch Mute City and Fall Down.. and either White Land or Port Town taking that alternate spot and placing Long Distance... in the newly vacated one
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"Anybody interested in grabbing a couple of burgers and hittin' the cemetery?" -Royal "Oh sure, walk to the sun"- Guybrush
Skies of Arcadia 1. Little Jack - 2. Boss Battle - 3. Credits - 4. Kingdom of Ixa'taka - 5. Armada Battle - 6. Delphinus - Alt. Final Battle ~Opportunity~ -
Left off: Ramirez's Theme - Epilogue - Headquarters -
Drakengard 1. Eighth Chapter On the Ground - 2. Second Chapter - In the Sky - 3. Route A Staff Roll - 4. First Chapter - In the Sky - 5. Seventh Chapter In the Sky - 6. Twelfth Chapter In the Sky - Alt: Sixth Chapter On the Ground -
Left off: Leonard's Regret On the Ground - First Chapter Inside the Castle -
Wow, two supporters of Dragon Palace. Do you both think it would do well here? Remember that Board 8 seems to have a bias against ambient pieces, and Dragon Palace sort of appears to fall in that category. Convince me that it'll be well received and I'll put it in.
It seems Ryoshima Plains is getting a fair amount of support, which is nice because I like it too. I'll definitely put that in over something. Shinshuu Plains seems most likely, but if someone makes a good case for keeping Shinshuu Plains, it can be something else.
I still hesitate with Ushiwaka's Dance. When I've mentioned liking it before, a lot of negative responses came. If that opinion still holds, it may not be the best decision. If there's a good chance it'll do well, no arguments from me, it's most likely my favorite.
True Susano-O is good, but I hesitate on it for the reason you mentioned: just about nobody ever talks about it.
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You laugh at my Celtic Guardian, until I use my Scapegoat, and then United We Stand, Mage Power, and 3 Axe Of Despairs, with Gaia Power out. 11900/7800
The only ones I'm sold on using at the main theme, PvP 2, and Behe Boss 1...and not necessarily in those positions. I need to finish listening to the whole soundtrack still, but I gotta run out.