Double elimination would probably make me more pleased with whatever the result ends up being, but pulling off a double elimination this large is difficult and hard to follow, so the decision to make it single elimination is perfectly understandable and there would be no *****ing from me.
Tiebreaker song can either always be song 7 or replay the same match.
I support this, but all nominators would need a chance to adjust their nominations accordingly (since I assume most people's 7th song is NOT what they want playing in the Grand Finals)
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http://images.wikia.com/onepiece/images/0/02/Luffy_and_Charloss.gif ~Future Impel Down Gurdian~
Can someone give a time estimate on TRE's plan? I like it, but yeah.
Depends how you structured it.
Winner's Bracket is obviously 63 days (though variable depending on multiple matches per day)
Loser's Bracket is 62 matches, not surprising. From here it's a matter of how you overlay them. Assuming you only start a Loser Bracket Round after that Round ended in the Winner's Bracket. (That is, R1 (L) starts at the same time as R2 (W) you can get:
Days 01- 32: R1 (W) Days 32 - 48: R2 (W) + R1 (L) Days 48 - 64: The entire rest of the W Bracket + R2 (L) Days 65 - 94: The rest of the L Bracket Day 95: W v L Day 96 (If necessary): W v L (II)
Now, Days 48-64 are where things run into trouble, causing the winner of the winner's bracket going on a month-long bye during Days 65-94.
Personally, I'd accelerate the Loser's Bracket matches like this:
Days 01 - 32: R1 (W) Days 33 - 48: R2 (W) + R1 (L) Days 49 - 56: R3 (W) + R2 (L) [2 matches/day] Days 57 - 60: R4 (W) + R3 (L) [3 matches/day] Days 61 - 62: R5 (W) + R4 (L) [4 matches/day] Day 63: Winner's Bracket Final + R5 (L) [4 matches] Day 64: R6 (L) [3 matches] Day 65: R7 (L) [2 matches] Day 66: Loser's Bracket Finals Day 67: W v L Day 68 (if necessary): W v L (II)
The problem here though, is that for 3 days, there are 5 matches going on simultaneously. If you're willing to drag the contest out a bit longer and have the Winner's Bracket winner wait it out a bit for the Loser's Bracket to catch up, you could drop the number of matches there and spread them out over a longer period.
Alternatively, I messed up badly in thinking all this out, which is possible, I'm pretty tired right now!
-- xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out? GotD (219/384) Melee v FFX
You're assuming we're doing 1 match a day. There's little reasons not to do 2 a day for R1 and maybe R2.
On which bracket? I didn't overlook this. The only Winner's Bracket I think you can reasonably accelerate is R1 (Though this does cut 16 days off). Speed up any other round and you cause problems with the Loser's Bracket, because you can't run a Loser's Bracket Round without the corresponding Winner's Bracket round having been completed. Well, you can, but you're going to hit pacing issues, I think.
An alternate route is to accelerate R1 (L) and run two matches there. That buys you a few days as well, and might make the endgame a little less messy. Loser's Bracket is still playing catch-up most of the time and that basically paralyzes the Winner's Bracket's pace. (Or else you have to increase the Loser Bracket pace to keep up, but it's already getting pretty bad there)
-- xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out? GotD (219/384) Melee v FFX
I assumed we wouldn't be running the W/L bracket side by side, and that the Loser's Bracket round would start after the Winner's Bracket round finished. Then the next Winner's bracket round would start, ect.
And obviously if you switch to one match a day earlier than I did there it'll go on a little longer. I only switched to 1 match for Semifinals and on. In practice the switch might be made earlier. Reason I did it that way was to be consistent between the Winner's and Loser's Bracket, and the way the Loser's Bracket runs, they don't "agree" on the number of matches for the rest of the way until the semifinals. (since the Loser's Bracket has a bunch of "weird" rounds with 3 matches or 6, etc.)
-- xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out? GotD (219/384) Melee v FFX
I assumed we wouldn't be running the W/L bracket side by side, and that the Loser's Bracket round would start after the Winner's Bracket round finished. Then the next Winner's bracket round would start, ect.
Oh...
All right.
That looks something like...
Days 01 - 16: R1 (W) [2 matches/day] Days 17 - 24: R1 (L) [2 matches/day] Days 25 - 32: R2 (W) [2 matches/day] Days 33 - 40: R2 (L) [2 matches/day] Days 41 - 44: R3 (W) [2 matches/day] Days 45 - 50: R3 (L) [2 matches/day] Days 51 - 52: R4 (W) [2 matches/day] Days 53 - 56: R4 (L) [2 matches/day] Days 57 - 58: R5 (W) Days 59 - 61: R5 (L) [2 matches/day]
--Right here you have a choice on where to run the Winner's Bracket Final. You don't need to run it now. You could run R6 (L) first. I'll just have the Winner's Final right here for now Day 62: Winner's Bracket Final Day 63: R6 (L) [3 matches] (This round only has 3 matches, and I'm not sure you want to keep the Winner's Bracket waiting anymore at this stage. But it's a judgment call on how to run this) Days 64 - 65: R7 (L) (I gave the Winner's Semifinals their own days, so only fair to do it here. Could run this in one day if you wanted though) Day 66: Loser's Bracket Final Day 67: W v L Day 68 (if necessary): W v L (II)
...Yeah, that does look cleaner.
Assuming, again, that I didn't make any mistakes here, and it is very possible I did.
-- xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out? GotD (219/384) Melee v FFX
With Kirby 64, I'm almost certainly replacing Ruins. I've narrowed it down to Rock Star ) or Pop Star ). Maybe I shouldn't replace Ruins, but it's a pretty risky song.
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Yes, I laugh at my own jokes. http://lparchive.org/Metroid-Prime-3-Corruption/Images/1-sitandspinumos.gif
Axelay hasn't gotten any support votes yet (if it will even get any). But, I would appreciate it if somebody could at least acknowledge that they've listened to one or two of them.
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"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. So...what is a party?" "Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."
Yeah, before the orders get locked in place, I'd definitely like to know how the different songs are going to be used. Of my own nominations, Ar tonelico II is the only one I anticipate having any true expectations for, and so is likely the only I'd really consider bothering to moving things around for, but still, I thought I had the alt song figured out before and treated it how I thought it would best work under that interpretation, but if that's at risk of being changed...
-- xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out? GotD (219/384) Melee v FFX
But Ripple Star has DAT BASS. I don't think I have the heart to take it out, but I'll consider it. Boss could work as the alt, but it's pretty repetitive. I feel good about Down the Mountain Stream.
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Yes, I laugh at my own jokes. http://lparchive.org/Metroid-Prime-3-Corruption/Images/1-sitandspinumos.gif
Nomination: Halo 3 ODST 1. The Rookie - 2. More Than His Share - 3. Traffic Jam - 4. Deference for Darkness - 5. Overture - 6. Finale - Alt: Skyline -
Reposting this, anyone have any thoughts? I think I may have overlooked some songs or maybe chosen ones that were too similar. Also I'm not sure about the order (Overture and Finale last).
Blairville posted... But Ripple Star has DAT BASS. I don't think I have the heart to take it out, but I'll consider it. Boss could work as the alt, but it's pretty repetitive. I feel good about Down the Mountain Stream.
That bass is nice yeah, I just wanted Ruins left in since I'm partial to it. Of course I have no idea what other people would prefer.
I listened to Biotech the other day, but I can try listening to another one or two if you like.
Oh, yeah, that would great if you could. Thanks. ;) BTW, I supported one your .hack nomination! (except I put in that vote in a post BEFORE you nominated it....through a later edited version.) =p
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"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. So...what is a party?" "Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."
I don't see ODST getting past the first couple rounds. The first 2 songs take too long to do nothing. I also think Deference for Darkness is pretty weak. I haven't listened to the OST so I'm not sure if there are better songs.
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Yes, I laugh at my own jokes. http://lparchive.org/Metroid-Prime-3-Corruption/Images/1-sitandspinumos.gif
A more consistent description would be that I felt Burning, Biotech, Colony, and Mother were definitely better than Unkai, Cosmic, and Silence, but ordering within those two groups is a bit tougher.
But I would like to attach the warning that my opinion generally does not have the best record when translated to what the rest of the board thinks.
BTW, I supported one your .hack nomination! (except I put in that vote in a post BEFORE you nominated it....through a later edited version.) =p
Yeah, I saw that. Thanks. I do think that list is a hollow shell of the original one I envisioned before learning about the various restrictions in place though. Losing Here I Come and Full Force was a devastating blow, IMO (To a lesser extent Evening Desert Plains and Eight Keys, among others, as well). I still like it, but I no longer have any expectations for it making much noise in the contest, and so Ar tonelico II is basically my only nomination I have expectations for now.
-- xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out? GotD (219/384) Melee v FFX
Whoops, I should have read the instructions more carefully! I guess "#1" on the list shouldn't necessarily be the best one, eh? I suppose I will re-order them later....not exactly sure how I will do it, though.
SUPPORT: Secret of Mana Mega Man 3 Xenogears.... on condition that Shevat: The Wind is Calling is put on the main list (#1-#6, not an alt). Xenosaga III Lost Odyssey
Also, for the sake of quality of the track representation, I propose the following:
When the final bracket is created, we let the users get a say on the tracks. However, we should allow the original nominator to still have quite a bit of power -- for instance, we could have the top 3 or 4 be "guaranteed". Also, I think we should let other users have some say on the order, as well, for the sake of good strategy.
Of course, the downside to this is major time consumption.
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"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. So...what is a party?" "Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."
You know, I'm starting to think that trying to "strategize" the order of the games might be a bad idea. It would backfire WAY too easily, and it could also cause some unfair upsets. Also, some games have maybe 2 great songs and all the rest are mediocre.
Perhaps we should just completely randomize the order? If a game is truly worthy, it's unlikely to lose twice due to bad luck (aside from bad luck of the draw, of course). I'm just glad we seem to be planning on double-elimination.
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"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. So...what is a party?" "Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."
Well, that's why you don't support the ones with only 2 great songs. Which is why my support list is gonna be more like an anti-vote list. Anyway, one change I'd like to make to Kirby 64.
Kirby 64: The Crystal Shards Alt. Rock Star -
As much as I like Mountain Stream, I think this'll do better. I feel good about the rest.
--
Yes, I laugh at my own jokes. http://lparchive.org/Metroid-Prime-3-Corruption/Images/1-sitandspinumos.gif
Song 7 Loser's Bracket Round 10 (Loser Finals) Grand Finals
Song 1 Grand Finals - Bracket Reset
This pattern makes it so that when a OST loses in the winner's bracket it cycles to the next song for the loser's bracket match. A OST can't be eliminated by losing twice with the same song (unless you loses in Round 1 with Song 1 and then again in the Grand Finals - Bracket Reset).
Each song is used at most twice excluding tiebreakers. Song 2 is only used once.
One thing I don't like too much is Song 7 is no longer unique to the Grand Finals and will be used for the second time for whichever OST comes out of the loser's bracket. Loser's Bracket Round 10 could be changed to use Song 6 which creates the possibility of Song 6 being used 3 times in one case.
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Pokemon VGC2011 NW Regional - Top 8 Pokemon VGC2011 US Nationals - 54th place
That does seem better, TRE, although I'm not a big fan of song 1 being used for the bracket reset, since that's usually the weakest song. Maybe song 6 instead.
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Yes, I laugh at my own jokes. http://lparchive.org/Metroid-Prime-3-Corruption/Images/1-sitandspinumos.gif
...TRE, where'd you get 10 Loser's Bracket Rounds from? I came up with 8, but as I was saying, I was very tired. That seems like a really bad error on my part if true.
I used:
R1 - 32 -> 16 R2 - 32 (+16 from R2 (W) losers) -> 16 R3 - 24 (+8 from R3 (W) losers) -> 12 R4 - 16 (+4 from R4 (W) losers) -> 8 R5 - 8 -> 4 (The losers from R5 (W) were not added here because they weren't in the initial outline earlier in the topic, and that's what I used) R6 - 6 (+2 from R5 (W) losers) -> 3 R7 - 4 (+1 from Finals (W) loser) -> 2 R8 (Finals) 2 -> 1
-- xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out? GotD (219/384) Melee v FFX
As a side note, that means my whole time estimate from earlier didn't match up with TRE's version, considering I basically ran 2 fewer rounds. In theory, I can't imagine it affects anything by more than a day or two, because regardless of how this is broken up the number of actual matches run should be the same in each so it can't be thrown off too much, I would think.
-- xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out? GotD (219/384) Melee v FFX
Ed: You forgot some potential picks. Specifically, Mushroom Hill, The Doomsday, Malicious Fingers. You should probably knock Icecap down a couple notches, too - for all the love it gets people just don't vote for it.
And since I'm talking about Genesis soundtracks...incoming techno awesomeness now that I'm home.
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Currently playing: League of Legends, Chrono Cross. Current Projects: Fool's Overture, CYOA: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/60143513
Ah, okay. I was just worried that I just completely forgot how to do basic math when tired or something and dropped a bunch of songs for no reason. >_>
I don't know if an 8-round Loser's Bracket would help you construct a "better" song rotation or not though, and again, I can't imagine the time factor to be all that significant.
-- xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out? GotD (219/384) Melee v FFX